[Deck] 12 Post

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Originally Posted by k_omega

I've been a bit dissatisfied with Explore in my mono-G build; I just exchanged them for Explorations and started testing that version. Situations where I had an extra land to play but not 1G to spare or where I had 1G available but no extra land occurred too frequently. Also Exploration allows for T2 Trinisphere where Explore does not, improving the combo matchup. Exploration might be even better for you than for me because Brainstorm and Repeal mean you draw more cards, so that you are more likely to have 2 lands in hand in a single turn to make use of the enchantment later in the game.

So consider switching the numbers on Explore and Exploration. At the moment my plan is to side out Explorations in matchups where speed is not critical; you might side them out in favor of some kind of board wipe which I see you don't have in the main. Since you and I both lack explosive SnT -> Titan -> Eldrazi lines we can't always plan to just ignore the board and hope Emrakul is enough. I've come to favor 2 Ugin and 1 Oblivion Stone main with 1 Stone/All is Dust in the sideboard, but they're all mostly interchangeable.

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I don't know in UG build which is better, but in the mono green I think explore is better than explorations. We don't have cards that give cards advantage, exploration is good if you always have 2 lands in your hand: after the opening hand, we have only maps to get lands in hand. Explorations is good also if you drop it on t1. And to do this, you have to put 4 of them in your deck. I think we can better use these slots....it's not a MUST card for our deck, does it deserve 4 slots? I don't think....also if you have one of them in t1, the others are dead draw. With explore the draw effect is always usefull, also at t6; you are not forced to put 4 of them in your deck; 1G is not so worst than G.

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Originally Posted by Morden

I don't know in UG build which is better, but in the mono green I think explore is better than explorations. We don't have cards that give cards advantage, exploration is good if you always have 2 lands in your hand: after the opening hand, we have only maps to get lands in hand. Explorations is good also if you drop it on t1. And to do this, you have to put 4 of them in your deck. I think we can better use these slots....it's not a MUST card for our deck, does it deserve 4 slots? I don't think....also if you have one of them in t1, the others are dead draw. With explore the draw effect is always useful, also at t6; you are not forced to put 4 of them in your deck; 1G is not so worst than G.

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Yes, the trade-off is fundamentally late-game relevance for early-game impact and it's the latter that I want more of. The late-game impact of "1G, Draw a card" has been minimal most of the time - I would rather have had Moment's Peaces in many of the same situations. You raise some valid concerns, but I want to see how they play out in actual games. It's definitely possible for Exploration to turn out worse, and maybe my perspective is just skewed by playing against a lot of combo recently.

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Originally Posted by k_omega

Yes, the trade-off is fundamentally late-game relevance for early-game impact and it's the latter that I want more of. The late-game impact of "1G, Draw a card" has been minimal most of the time - I would rather have had Moment's Peaces in many of the same situations. You raise some valid concerns, but I want to see how they play out in actual games. It's definitely possible for Exploration to turn out worse, and maybe my perspective is just skewed by playing against a lot of combo recently.

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Oracle of Mul-Daya in multiples is a great option when you find yourself in this situation. It is basically hybrid SnT Exploration/Explore. I play it whenever I'm not leaning on high blue count for FOW. This card was heavily tested many pages back, and I recommend trying it! It is ideal in a BUG and combo meta.

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Originally Posted by k_omega

Yes, the trade-off is fundamentally late-game relevance for early-game impact and it's the latter that I want more of. The late-game impact of "1G, Draw a card" has been minimal most of the time - I would rather have had Moment's Peaces in many of the same situations. You raise some valid concerns, but I want to see how they play out in actual games. It's definitely possible for Exploration to turn out worse, and maybe my perspective is just skewed by playing against a lot of combo recently.

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i agree with you it may be better in UG post. i'll keep testing with 4 MB as i really need something to replace SnT at the moment. If exploration resolves on T1 it's just huge. Feels broken and that's always good right? :laugh:

any other suggestions for speeding things up outside SnT?

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Originally Posted by k_omega

Yes, the trade-off is fundamentally late-game relevance for early-game impact and it's the latter that I want more of. The late-game impact of "1G, Draw a card" has been minimal most of the time - I would rather have had Moment's Peaces in many of the same situations. You raise some valid concerns, but I want to see how they play out in actual games. It's definitely possible for Exploration to turn out worse, and maybe my perspective is just skewed by playing against a lot of combo recently.

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of course, it depends also on your list....if you run 4 maps and 4 stirrings, you CAN have a lot of lands to "feed" the exploration. You know, I don't think explore is ABOLUTELY best than exploration......on g2, against blue decks, I always remove an explore for Carpet of Flowers. This is REAL ramp. I know, with explore/exploration we can put also utility lands like karakas, stage, bojuka or else, but I think for this purpose crop and map are better, they let us to choose exactly what we need.

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

Oracle of Mul-Daya in multiples is a great option when you find yourself in this situation. It is basically hybrid SnT Exploration/Explore. I play it whenever I'm not leaning on high blue count for FOW. This card was heavily tested many pages back, and I recommend trying it! It is ideal in a BUG and combo meta.

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abolutely. I run 1 of them, but I have also 1 GSZ in case. When I have sensei on the battlefield and on opponent's eot I see land+land+spell, I feel like payday :laugh: (if one land is not that fucking chasm -_- )

Just curious but has anyone come up with a way to get Scouting trek and Animist's Awakening to work in a functional deck other then just jamming them in there?

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

Oracle of Mul-Daya in multiples is a great option when you find yourself in this situation. It is basically hybrid SnT Exploration/Explore. I play it whenever I'm not leaning on high blue count for FOW. This card was heavily tested many pages back, and I recommend trying it! It is ideal in a BUG and combo meta.

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I've been using an Oracle with 4 GSZ and it has been really good. I'll try some more copies if the Explorations don't work out, though it seems hard to get a 4cc creature into play within the turn range I'm concerned about.

I tested with exploration a few times and I wasn't very impressed. However, I think running something like courser, a full set of tops and MAYBE oracle of mul daya that it could be good. A turn 2 oracle into 2 more land drops off the top of your deck is nothing to scoff at. If you run exploration I really would consider some kind of oracle or courser effect that allows you to play lands off the top in order to get value all game off it. Just playing the 1 land you draw a turn is miserable when you have jammed exploration into your list and it really is dead a bit later in the game.

what's up with cards like Skyshroud Blessing or maybe Spiritual Asylum for GW?
Are there any other shroud / hexproof lands cards out there?

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Originally Posted by MechTactical

what's up with cards like Skyshroud Blessing or maybe Spiritual Asylum for GW?
Are there any other shroud / hexproof lands cards out there?

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Seems very interesting. Both seem relatively viable. Personally I have enjoyed running sacred ground to shut off wasteland, then you get needles to shut off ports. I think asylum is probably better out of the 2 since blessing is a 1 time effect that essentially the same effect as sacred ground when it comes to shutting off wasteland. But I think asylum is a better possibility since it also protects your creatures and can shut off wasteland and port until you're ready to stomp your opponent's face in. My only issue is that at 4 mana a lot of the time you are running off a post or 2 and can probably just cast a titan. At that point you usually just win anyway. Definitely solid ideas though. It's nice to shut off wasteland when you go get an eye of ugin since that can slow you down immensely. Again, I still think it is slow and sacred ground comes down turn 2 and essentially nullifies wasteland. Port can be played around using candels.

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Originally Posted by k_omega

Yes, the trade-off is fundamentally late-game relevance for early-game impact and it's the latter that I want more of. The late-game impact of "1G, Draw a card" has been minimal most of the time - I would rather have had Moment's Peaces in many of the same situations. You raise some valid concerns, but I want to see how they play out in actual games. It's definitely possible for Exploration to turn out worse, and maybe my perspective is just skewed by playing against a lot of combo recently.

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This.

Exploration is one of the absolute best cards to see in your opening hand and usually the absolute worst card you can topdeck after T3. Explore is a much better topdeck, since at worst it just cycles to replace itself, but the difference in explosiveness between G and 1G is very significant, as well as being a persistent effect. Personally, I prefer the explosiveness of Exploration because I think it gives monogreen a much-needed boost in racing combo.


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Originally Posted by mykatdied

Seems very interesting. Both seem relatively viable. Personally I have enjoyed running sacred ground to shut off wasteland, then you get needles to shut off ports. I think asylum is probably better out of the 2 since blessing is a 1 time effect that essentially the same effect as sacred ground when it comes to shutting off wasteland. But I think asylum is a better possibility since it also protects your creatures and can shut off wasteland and port until you're ready to stomp your opponent's face in. My only issue is that at 4 mana a lot of the time you are running off a post or 2 and can probably just cast a titan. At that point you usually just win anyway. Definitely solid ideas though. It's nice to shut off wasteland when you go get an eye of ugin since that can slow you down immensely. Again, I still think it is slow and sacred ground comes down turn 2 and essentially nullifies wasteland. Port can be played around using candels.

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in general, I prefer sacred ground too. Asylum could be nice, in response to wasteland makes the opponent waste a land and we draw a card. But i don't want to keep open mana in case of wasteland.....mostly on early game. That's why I have one sacred ground in sideboard: against deck with a lot of wasteland and a lot of target for needle, sacred is like a 5th needle. 2cc, fast and very efficent. The only disadvantage is that it can be destroy by decay,Skyshroud Blessing can't. but it's ok, he has to find a decay, "waste" it on sacred (candelabra, needle, sylvan lybrary are happy), find a wasteland......
I find Asylum horrible? 4cc? with TWO white? to protect our lands? Toooooo slow......ok, it protects our creatures....do we really need this? I don't think so.

anyway, good news and hope for all of us. I played this deck, monoG version (splash with a little of white) in a local tournament....I found a Omnitell :D :D :D
g1, on the draw:
-oppo: island.
-me: verdant catacomb, pass. his brainstorm eot.
-oppo: city, S&T. I had on titan in hand...he put emrakul!!!! looool, titan for karakas and gg. "I never thought you were a 12post!!!"

g2, on the draw. Side in: 2 trinisphere, 1 sphere of resistance, 1 gaddock, 1 choke, 1 carpet of flowers, 1 reclamation sage, 1 krosan grip. Let's make a difficult game for omni......
-oppo: island, ponder.
-me: I kept with trini in hand. Forest, carpet of flowers.
-oppo: island, preordain, ponder.
-me: cloudpost, sensei, countered.
-oppo: island, S&T. He put omni, I put trini, it's blocked.
-me: cloudpost, tap the first cloud, 2 mana, tap forest, 3, use carpet, 6, titan. Force of will? wait, trini :P gg.

Of course, I had luck, but also opponent had show on turn 3 on both games!!! Sideboarding 8 cards is heavy for omni.....and they are all cards great also with other matchups (spheres for burn and storm, gaddok for miracles/mud, carpet for every blue, choke for merfolks, sage and grip for bloodmoon, entangling bridge, sensei, mud.....)

What does your sideboard look like overall? I like the way it sounds. I've been considering adding thalia and canonist to my board since they both nerf omnitell a lot.

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Originally Posted by mykatdied

What does your sideboard look like overall? I like the way it sounds. I've been considering adding thalia and canonist to my board since they both nerf omnitell a lot.

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i had them, but since I want to optimize as much as possible my sideboard, I prefer 2 trinispheres, used also against burn. Creatures against burn are not so usefull.....My complete sideboard is:
2 trini
1 sphere
1 choke
1 carpet
1 gaddock
1 reclamation
1 krosan
1 pithing needle
1 sacred ground
2 rest in peace: soooo usefull against a lot of deck. Obviously graveyard deck but also tarmo, deathrite shaman, loam.....
1 engineered explosives: monastery miracle, grixis, storm with empty the warrens, delvers....
1 obstinate baloth: against shardless bug or pox is incredible. Turn 3 liliana? thanks, 4 life. I'd remove it, but I don't find anything better against something that target me. The baloth is the sobstitute for leyline of sanctity against black (trini is against red).....if you find something better, please tell me!! (no true beliver or something like this, they die so easily.....also cc>2 is useless, oppo has already hit me twice at lest)
1 dark depths: this is an experiment. I don't know, I had a tournament last sunday and it was usefull only against grixis.....I don't like stage+depths combo in general, to slow and to fragile. Maybe I will remove it for an elephant grass, on that tournament I died badly against an army of tarmo or delver -_- (I won against grixis, miracle, goblins, omnitell and lost against shardless, 4cdelver, jund).

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Originally Posted by Morden

i had them, but since I want to optimize as much as possible my sideboard, I prefer 2 trinispheres, used also against burn. Creatures against burn are not so usefull.....My complete sideboard is:
2 trini
1 sphere
1 choke
1 carpet
1 gaddock
1 reclamation
1 krosan
1 pithing needle
1 sacred ground
2 rest in peace
1 engineered explosives
1 obstinate baloth
1 dark depths

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A few 1 of creatures, I'm assuming your main includes GSZ? I like the sideboard overall. Personally I tested with e tutor and CoP red, o-ring and a few other tutor targets to handle burn, omni, etc. I considered running elephant grass as well because of mentor miracles and delver decks. But I ultimately dropped it all since I never really wanted to have the e tutor package.

yeah, only 1 gsz, it's a fifth titan or ramp for oracle. No dryad sadly, I have no room for it.
You gave me a great suggestion with Etutor!! Main, now. I had scroll rack before, together with 2sensei, 1mirri's guile,1 sylvan library, as "cards that help me to get the right card at the right moment". But scroll is great only before 3rd turn, when you have a lot of cards to switch....with Etutor I have a LOT of things to search!! CANDELABRA, WURMCOIL, OBLIVION STONE, map, sensei, NEEDLE, sylvan library, mirri's guile.....and more than half of sideboard! I will test absolutely.
I had Cop red in sideboard, but burn decks are very few in my local meta (4 decks on 60 more or less), but also in general you don't see a lot of them. So I prefer remove it, also if is gg with burn (if you find it before die).

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Originally Posted by Morden

I had Cop red in sideboard, but burn decks are very few in my local meta (4 decks on 60 more or less), but also in general you don't see a lot of them. So I prefer remove it, also if is gg with burn (if you find it before die).

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Ironically Legacy burn is slowed down by COP: Red, while modern burn isn't. I guess there are times when having burn better than skullcrack and atarka's command is helpful! I've also been threating to try Sanctimony against Burn in modern, which also may have applications here as well. Works well if opponent bloodmoons you too lol. :-)

Another enlightened tutor target is platinum emperion. It takes burn 3 spells to kill it and storm can't win when it's on the table.

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Originally Posted by Morden

i had them, but since I want to optimize as much as possible my sideboard, I prefer 2 trinispheres, used also against burn. Creatures against burn are not so usefull.....My complete sideboard is:
2 trini
1 sphere
1 choke
1 carpet
1 gaddock
1 reclamation
1 krosan
1 pithing needle
1 sacred ground
2 rest in peace
1 engineered explosives
1 obstinate baloth
1 dark depths

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How many white sources + fetches do you use? When I had a similar sideboard I had Karakas + 1 Savannah + 3 fetches which seemed a little less than enough to have W on T2 when I want it. I actually cut the white splash in my current build to avoid this problem and make room for a second maindeck Cavern of Souls.

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Originally Posted by k_omega

How many white sources + fetches do you use? When I had a similar sideboard I had Karakas + 1 Savannah + 3 fetches which seemed a little less than enough to have W on T2 when I want it. I actually cut the white splash in my current build to avoid this problem and make room for a second maindeck Cavern of Souls.

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1 karakas + 2 savannah + 3 forest + 4 fetches, this are my GW sources (no dryad). Based on my games, I had no problem to get white source early (against blue deck there is also carpet of flowers that can be considered as white source).