Academy in a format where LED and Petal are 4 of's would be fucking miserable.
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Academy in a format where LED and Petal are 4 of's would be fucking miserable.
Academy would motivate me to build some UG cheeri0s/high tide Glimpse of Nature & Blue Sun's Zenith combo deck. Makes me twitch just thinking of using Candelabra to untap both Cradle and Academy.
Pretty sure Mind Over Matter goes in a Flex Slot.
How come Academy costsbillion? Unless something happend to dollar, I see it for 600 crowns in our lgs. Yep, it's not the cheapest cheap-ass land ever, but we're discussing Legacy, where your usual opening of blue fetch, blue dual, Ponder cost something like 300 bucks.
At least you only stack 5 cards ONCE and not 30+ in like EVERY TURNQuote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
lolwutQuote:
Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer
talk in freedom dollars or sean and i won't understand you.
What are freedom dolars? Canadian money?Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrav
No matter what I still got no idea why price should be a factor when considering the unbanning of Tolarian Academy. The trouble with Academy is in its power, not price.
That is cause Academy is currently a 1-of in a unplayed format. 4-of in popular format? Easily 200$ card right there. Same as cradle, probably worse cause it's U-based mana and slightly less narrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer
I guess you could play like 16 thopter, 4 gaeas+ 4 tolarian + glimpse + the UG glimpse and have fun. CotV for 0 you lose. FoW on glimpse you lose. Every other hand being a mull. Probably better than belcher but uuuh.
Playing it in AnT would make the deck much better i think. 4 led + 4 petal +2 chrome mox +2 SdT +4 chromatic star + 4 academy, remove some fetches, maybe lower total of lands by 1 , remove a card here and there... yeah probably broken.
EDIT: not it actually is broken:
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Chromatic Star
4 Dark Ritual
4 Tolarian Academy
3 Underground Sea
2 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Duress
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
3 Ponder
4 Polluted Delta
1 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
Fixed academy to give colorless please. Then i can play brown decks in my legacy.
Um... I swear I knew this argument will show up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheizen64
A dude above wrote that Academy costs billion. It does not. In fact (and contrary to the Mask of Nobody Plays The Card), it's banned because of its power, not because of its price, something something causal nexus.
Would it be expensive if they'd unban it? Definitely. Gaea's Cradle.
But it'll remain banned. Because of its power. Not price.
What 30 cards do you need to stack every turn?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Assuming Goblin Recruiter and Food Chain are on the board already:
Goblin Ringleader, Goblin Warchief (2), Goblin Piledriver (7), Goblin Piledriver (7), Goblin Piledriver (7).
I count 5 cards and 23 damage... Did I win yet? :tongue:
You know you have to Sac some of them for mana right?
Assuming Recruiter and Chain are on the field, plus the 3 lands you needed to cast Chain...
Recruiter gets you :r::r::r:
Add another and you cast Ringleader drawing your 4 goblins.
Ringleader gets you :r::r::r::r::r:
Add another and you can cast all 4 you drew.
Swing FTW!
You didn't get any of the arguments we presented here over the last pages, did you? It's totally wayne that you can execute this auto-pilot pile with a goldfish as opponent and with Recruiter and Foodchain already on the table as it is well-known tech. The point was using the fact that you are allowed to stack your whole deck for several minutes with each Recruiter cast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
Imagine a game 2 against a control deck (BUG Walker or Miracles for example) where you managed to win game 1 and in this game two your opponent slammed a Moat on the field! Now you can stack your Recruiters to cast them every fucking turn (or two) and drag out the game for a 1:0 victory which is basically the same gameplan Sheherazade.dec had: Aggro rush game 1 and/or 2, then stall game 2 or 3 into a 1:0 or 1:1
No, if Moat hits the table you stack a Kiki, Lighting and Prospector pile and shoot them down. Another way is to drop a Sharpshooter, Prospector and Siege, then for every 3 goblins you sac you deal 5 damage.
Imagine a Food Chain Goblin deck sculpted by such a meta. By adding 1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror breaker and 1 Lightning Crafter you can just win past a moat... Again a very simple pile that a pilot with 1+ game against the decks you mentioned would know about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Assuming Food Chain and Moat are on the board, you cast Recruiter and stack:
Goblin Ringleader, Goblin Warchief, Goblin Matron, Lightning Crafter, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror breaker
Recruiter gives you RRR
Adding :r: from your 3 lands lets you cast Ringleader and draw your 4 other goblins.
Ringleader gives you RRRRR
Cast Warchief, cast Matron -> search for Matron
Matron gives you RRRR
Adding :r: from your 2 remaining lands lets you cast Kiki
Warchief gives you RRRR
Cast Crafter, Champion trigger on the stack, combo out with Kiki.
No 30 card pile or stalling needed.
"It's totally wayne" - I'm unfamiliar with this phrase. What does it mean? Context implies it means "It's well known that".
"Wayne" is a colloquialism used in Germany meaning somthing doesn't matter or is irrelevant. Don't know if it is used in this context elsewhere. Just read the sentence as: "It doesn't matter that you can execute this auto-pilot..." and you will get what he was trying to say. It's basically how cool kids talk these days, just like using the word "cool" itself a generation ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
What's all this nonsense about delay of game and stalling? Just cast recruiter the turn after you cast Charbelcher.
orQuote:
Originally Posted by thecrav
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-F...-no/ignore.png
I apologize. I'm too old for this slang in general and it has no place here either. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisyphos
Anyways, looks like the example for stalling against Moat wasn't well-picked. You still got the idea here. Feel free to pick your own scenario ;)
P.S.: what's the issue about currency?
Just some selected quotes from this post. I was going to comment on the "Academy is a billion dollars" thing, where 1,000,000,000 = $27.16 (mtgprice), and parry the inevitable "But it will go up if it's unbanned, look at Cradle" arguments (you know, because Cradle has been a casual staple for a decade and a half, played in EDH as much as it is played in Legacy, whereas Academy is a card that will start fights depending how long your friends have been playing.) But after reading the rest of the suggestions, ie "Jar seems safe" I figured the post could stand on it's own :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheizen64
Eh, I think you overrate the power of academy versus rituals. I think it's probably realistic to assume the Academy is going to tap for >1 mana ~50% of the time, but on the other hand, it's going to be so very slow and dead in most storm builds the same percentage. As for the Eggs/Turbo-Academy-esque shell posted; yes, if Academy was unbanned, people would probably build around it. But I am genuinely curious to know if it would suddenly be that much stronger than fast combo is today, or even stronger than Tide for that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
I would also be super interested to see some thought exercises with Library, except that even rumors of it getting unbanned probably drive the real-market price north of $350.
I've been busy with life.
What happened to all the TNN hate?
Doran just totally pushed TNN out of the format, didn't you hear?Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
-Matt
They had to throw their design rules out of the window to print removal for it:Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...192129717.jpeg
Academy would be crazy good. Chrome Mox, Petal, LED, Opal Mox, Artifact Lands ... Chaining cantrips like a madman or drop your whole hand turn 1 in Affinity.
Edit: forgot Thopter Foundry ;)
This gave me a good laugh :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
So a bunch of cheap artifacts that make mana to power something that makes mana to then play... what? A worse version of Tide? Ohhh, powered affinity would be strong - except that even with artifact lands, it's almost completely absent from play, and the issue isn't being able to play your hand even faster - its the durability of the threats you play in the face of ubiquitous cards like StP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I feel like the biggest problem with Academy is still it's perception circa 1998. Know why it's powerful in Vintage? It's because 6 of the most powerful cards in the game are artifacts, and they are almost guaranteed to be in every list. If you want to play sub-par net-loss-advantage replacements like Petal, Chrome, or Diamond to make your bursty Academy plays stronger, go ahead. I concede that people will lose their minds trying to find a Turbo-Academy shell that is busted, but I strongly doubt in the age of Past in Flames storm and BSZ Tide you will find a significantly more powerful deck than what's already available. I think it's actual strength as a card is mid-range, and in that respect, it's not any more powerful (arguably less so) than Cradle.
(For the record, I still suspect the most 'abusive' deck you could build with Academy is U/W Eggs, since Time Spiral and Second Sunrise seem fun together, and cracking LED with spiral on the stack seems like more fun than doing it with an Infernal...)
I would be happy to drop a fist full of low mana artifacts, tap Academy and play Diminishing Returns...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellomdian
Academy is disgusting. We have its buddy, time spiral, as well as cloud of faeries. Mind over matter is busted in half with it as well. And it gives blue mana/the best kind of mana. If WotC isn't unbanning earthcraft why on earth would they unban academy. Same with library of alexandria and mana drain. WotC is never unbanning those cards and if you're hoping that they are going to get unbanned get used to disappointment every announcement.
Because blue decks need carddraw that makes even mana and add an additional 3000$ to decks cost if played as a playset in Legacy. Mana Drain is pretty much the same: Turn 3 Jace or Hardcast Batterskulls for the little cost of 2000$ extra. As if Legacy's cost isn't driving it's players already away....Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Ritual
I'm far less certain fo this than you. Granted, Academy decks lose one of their most potent Draw7s (Memory Jar), but I can see a number of curretly good, but not dominant, decks where Academy would be an instant 4-of, and one or two where it would generate Eggs-like chicanery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellomdian
Thought experiment after watching a bunch of Cube videos where no one ever picks Necropotence: if it were legal in Legacy, what would be the best shell for it?
An engine combo deck like Storm, perhaps with extra Tendrils to allow for value drains?
A two-card combo deck that resembled Extended Trix?
An aggressive deck like the old-school Standard lists (seems doubtful to me)?
A deck more oriented towards board control and incremental card advantage principles?
I'd be inclined to guess the first option.
The first place I'd start is probably with Necrospike. (Old MTGO Classic)Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
I always wanted to build an Academy-Cradle-ThopterSword deck.
With Worm Harvest, ofc.
Academy is crazy good in AnT.
You start with 4 Led, 4 Petal, 3 SnT, 3 chrome mox. It's an island that sometimes tap for UU. Crazy good. Not sure if broken, but still it'd be a clear powerhouse of the format. If it gave colorless it'd be much less worrrying cause then you could play it only in heavy brown lists, and AnT would probably skip it.
Rocket Launcher, Mana Cylix, Dragon Engine! Look, I can name random old artifacts too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I honestly just hope that they hurry up and take Black Vise and Mind Twist off, and maybe even Earthcraft, so that we can continue discussion about real cards without cluttering up the list with chaff.
Random artifacts? As for someone who claims to play since '97 and dipping his nose into a discussion about the expected impact of Academy in Legacy in Relation to Vintage with it's powered artifacts which are all banned in Legacy, this post was exceptional stupid. The point made was that Academy in Vintage is not only played because of the 5 original Moxen and Black Lotus but that the count of colorless powerhouses is much higher even if I did not even mention MUD or Vintage Affinity to prove that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellomdian
As we're at it: Caleb released his take on Academy as well and after the Bargain-Fail he underlined once more, why he should not play any kind of engine-decks or storm.
...what? That's a mediocre list - he should at least be going mono-blue, and looking towards Spring Tide lists for inspiration, what with having a relevant draw suite. I think you need to be playing at least 22 artifacts for Academy to be even remotely playable for 1+ mana. The question is, what draw-suite would you use - Thoughtcast, BS, GProbe, BSZ? And how many Candelabra would you use?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Does B/R get updated with M15 or is it only new block sets?
IMO there are many possibilities. Splashing green for Crop Rotation seems like something that - at minimum - deserves some consideration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenslight