how is the goblins matchup, do we hang in there w/ finks & stp until we can deed them?
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how is the goblins matchup, do we hang in there w/ finks & stp until we can deed them?
I've found that Goblins to be more challenging since they started to add Stingscourge (took them long enough). Most of the lists I’ve seen are running between 3-4 main because of how much tempo they create.
I was trying to find additional assistance against the deck and I decided that Plague was a bad idea after board due to all the lord, and extra bodies was also a bad idea (was boarding Magus of the Tabernacle to keep them under control).
Instead I've gone with Ghostly Prison for an after bored approach. I decided that not being able to vile in a Sting scourge and bounce my answer was a better idea. Additionally I though that slowing their attacks was a great idea.
Additionally, if you're playing against other agro decks then it shines just as much since they don’t want to have very many lands. The card really shines when you do things to their lands (Vindicate or Choke). So I can say that I’m happy with the choice.
On a side note: I’m wondering if anyone had cut the K-Grip? I was talking about people playing more 3 drops so Grip doesn’t really stop the threats like it used to but no one responded to the question. I’m thinking a little bit more removal or graveyard hate would do the trick since people have been looking harder at graveyard based decks (since Zoo is becoming a contender again).
Does Deed not do enough that you need Ghostly Prisons?
I am confused.. I think Damnation or Wrath is stronger than Ghostly Prison if you need more creature destruction effects..
I've had good luck w/ E.Plague..
against gob i found Pernicious Deed almost useless, once they had a Ringleader they recover too fast.
Lately I've been seeing a lot of decks with 8 stp effects, also known als 4 stp and 4 pte. This because of the aggro decks that have been running loose. Zoo has a hard time recovering from those 8 spells and the same is true for merfolk.
I wonder, isn't it a good idea to use 8 slots (possibly after boarding) for stp/pte to keep them off of creatures the first couple of turns? then you have enough time to cast a deed or WoG/damnation.
I'm attending the Open dutch Nationals with the Rock and my sideboard is build to fight of combo. But with the ressurection of goblins, maybe I'll sacrifce some SB slots for PtE.
thoughts?
That completely depends on your maindeck. Can you post it please?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arne
Edit: is it the following list per chance?
Code:3x Sensei’s Divining Top
2x Umezawa’s Jitte
4x Dark Confidant
2x Tombstalker
2x Eternal Witness
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Kitchen Finks
3x Qasali Pridemage
3x Pernicious Deed
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Bayou
2x Forest
2x Marsh Flats
1x Plains
1x Savannah
2x Scrubland
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
2x Windswept Heath
4x Thoughtseize
3x Vindicate
Sideboard
3x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Gaddock Teeg
3x Extirpate
3x Krosan Grip
3x Cabal Therapy
1x Crime // Punishment
My version of the rock is different than the Standard list. I run a lot of land disruption stuff (Wasteland, Vindicate, Armageddon, Tabernacle). Deed is a good sweeper but it's not always enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
Kesta said it bestBut, that still means that they have to have it or the onslaught of other gobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesta
Is a good answer to why we need more. I HATE Path to exile because it gives them a land for almost nothing (who likes to get time walked?!). The decks that you'll play it against are the ones that have tons of basics so you do a couple of things: 1) Thin their deck and make them that much more consistent. 2) Give them the mana to either take control or get back into the game.
I play Prison because it helps slow the decks down. Most often than not it ends up making them think about what they want to do. Attack or port a land. And we all know how strong Gobs is against us without mana disruption and slow swings.
I play both rock(a survival version) and Gob and i assure you, i fear 3x much prison than deed. When i see deed i have already enough threat on the board that i keep my hand growing till my oponent break deed (or i put just enough threat) then i recover in 1-2 turns. worst card for gob are prison, tabernacle, plague, finks and tarmo :-)
If you play 4 finks usually it should be enough.
Just to Piggy Back on this a little. We also run Choke in our board. It helps to slow Merfolk down/stop them via Prison + Choke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesta
Yes it is... direct copy from nedermagic I presume? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeggi
Hi guys, what do yo think about this more aggro oriented version?
creature [16]
4 Doran, the Siege Tower
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
instant [4]
4 Swords to Plowshares
sorcery [16]
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Thoughtseize
4 Vindicate
artifact [4]
4 Sensei's Divining Top
land [20]
3 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
60 cards
Sideboard:
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Extirpate
4 Krosan Grip
2 Circle of Protection: Red
3 Umezawa's Jitte
15 cards
Al-ucard - Your list looks to be effective. I like the idea but I have questions on your manabase and lack of Bob. I understand that you can play without Bob but wouldn't he be better to have in with all of your low costs? As for your manabase I'm worried that you'll get Wasted out of the game. 2 Swamps isn't enough to actually get you there most of the time vs a waste-lock.
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On to other topics, has anyone cut K-grip from their board? I've dropped it to a 2 of but I never board it in. All in all I've been thinking it's a dead card now and needs to be replaced. I've started to look at what's out there but I'm not to far into Gatherer yet (sorted by cc I'm still on 1).
Here's the list I ran in the Dutch Nationals (138 players), I ended up in the top8.
A tiny little tournament report:Code:1 swamp
1 volrath's stronghold
4 bayou
1 forest
2 savannah
4 scrubland
3 windswept heath
1 plains
3 marsh flats
2 verdant catacomb
4 dark confidant
1 eternal witness
4 tarmogoyf
3 qasali pridemage
2 tombstalker
4 vindicate
4 thoughtseize
4 swords to plowshares
3 sensei's divining top
2 path to exile
2 duress
2 elspeth
3 pernicious deed
side
2 duress
4 gaddock teag
4 engineered plague
1 tormod's crypt
2 extirpate
2 diabolic edict
Round 1: CounterTop: win
Round 2: CounterTop: win
Round 3: CounterTop: win
Round 4: DDANT: loss
Round 5: CounterTop: win
Round 6: Landstill: draw
Round 7: Death & Taxes: win
Round 8: Goblins: win
Quarter Finals: B/U Reanimator: loss
Reanimator won the tournament.
So I ended up 5-8th place. I like the deck alot, it really crunches CounterTop. I've encountered them all: Supreme Blue, Bant and black splash. Always the same sideboard strategy: -1 Witness, +1 Duress. I lost to DDANT because it's a really bad match-up, and because I really had bad luck taking mulligans. Game 1 I had to mull to 3, game 2 I had to mull to 4. That's not goign to work :wink:. Against Landstill, I made a mistake game 2 which cost me that game (I won game 1), in game 3 time was called. Against B/U Reanimator, I lost game 1, took game 2 and obviously I lost game 3. I kept an okay hand with Duress and Extirpate, but he Thoughtseized me first. So I lost the Extirpate. I was able to Duress a Careful Study I believe, but it wasn't enough.
It's a list that top decked in an 50 people tournament and I play tested it last week.Quote:
Originally Posted by damionblackgear
I know we losed Bob, but its contrarrested with tempo cards like hymn to tourach and sinkhole. In my testings seems that this two cards do more than Bob.
About the mana base I agree that its a lot risky. I played against a deck with wastelands and if they kill you the 3 scrublands you are owned, I will fit one basic plains to sustent all white cards in there.
I'll give it a try before I add anything else to it. I wouldn't feel right with giving any kinds of other advice without testing the deck first. I am wondering about the basic forest though. Were you going to add that as well or just give it up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Al-ucard
I'm not sure about the basic forest, I have worried much more about plains because all your answers required this color, not being able to play a guy is not like not being able to play vindicate or sword to kill a threat. Anyway, Top has helped with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by damionblackgear
Another card I think I will try is reliquary knight, I think is better than doran, and easy to play too.
I play Knight for both his size and utility. I'll ship you my list. Take a look at it and tell me what you think.
What do you think about playing Baneslayer Angel instead of Tombstalker? It seems to be awesome
5 mana is too much just to recieve a swords to plowshares. The risk is too great.
I run it over witness and it's a game winner. Yeah, it sucks when it gets swords but it's usually kotr that gets swords. Especially Game 2. People are more willing to deal with it than the angel.