[Deck] The Gate

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Originally Posted by Osmin

Hollywood, and what about SB? The most interesting for me is Bitterblossom. In what MU it can be useful? Against CounterTop? Uncounterable creatures...
I'm planning to take that build to my local FNM.

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Bitterblossom is very useful in the control match where everything revolves around as much damage as you can possibly inflict. It effectively prevents spot removal from stunting your resources as each turn you get a creature out of it. They are uncounterable, which also helps a great deal. Being a stationary form of creature production, it is hard to argue how good Bitterblossom can be once it lands. The additional Bitterblossoms are there in the sideboard to supplement the other two in the control (and "Counter-Top") match early on.

Spinning Darkness is one of my favorite cards in the deck. With the removal the deck already packs, it gets that much better against "Zoo". Here, you're gaining life and knocking off one of their creatures. It also can shrink Tarmogoyf, which is the least of your worries anyway; that card should never stick against you.

I've found Dystopia to be ultra-effective in the "Armageddon Stax" match, as well as any other deck running white or green permanents (Elspeth, Enchantress, etc.) to a large extent. It is just a potent weapon that again - works as a stationary form of production.

Thanks for your answer!
On one tournament two players in a row (BW Pox and then 4c Landstill) side in Engineered Plague against me. So my Blossoms became useless((

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Originally Posted by Osmin

Thanks for your answer!
On one tournament two players in a row (BW Pox and then 4c Landstill) side in Engineered Plague against me. So my Blossoms became useless((

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Consider boarding in Nevinyrral's Disk against those decks; they are rather top-heavy on enchanments and miscellaneous permanents that could be troublesome. Engineered Plague doesn't see too much play anymore, but it is still effective none the less. If it hits play against you with a Bitterblossom out and you are unprepared to handle it, you should either sideboard appropriately or remove them from the match all together (if you know they are running it in game two, prepare for it in game three).

I really like ur list, Hollywood, thought i personally prefer having Edict over Deathmark - thats a choice that doesnt need to be discussed any further - both have their advantages and can be rly great :)

B U T:
is 16 Swamps rly enough?
I mean, Percy costs 4 mana. I allways like to think playing Percy T4 or T5 is a must to finish off, but to me the landcount seems rly low. U never ran into trouble with that?
i run 22 Lands (3 of which are Wastelands) and am rarely flooded. i mostly sit there playing percy turn 5 with that, cause that 1 Wasteland i allways seem to draw during the first 3 turns goes away for some land of opp :)

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Originally Posted by Hollywood

The only time Tombstalker is effective is when you play Dark Ritual (with the inherent lack of fetches, which are unnecessary here anyway), and Dark Ritual is a terrible card in this deck (for the millionth time).

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What? No Tombstalker doesn't require Dark Ritual, it requires graveyard food, yes. This "food" is mainly fed by playing disrupts and is aided by Fetchlands. Sure it would make a Stalker come out sooner but that is saying the obvious.

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You obviously didn't even read what the purpose of the deck is, which is not to dump your hand in hopes of winning the game too early by: Overextending your hand, depleting your resources, and hoping your opponent cannot stabilize in a single turn.

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This strategy has been working wonders for eva green. Being MBA's predecessor, it is now getting all the results while maintaining the same style of play just that extra splash for goyf and Sb options. So saying this isn't viable i would have to disagree.

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Do people not understand why these types of decks are labeled as "inconsistent"?

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And a deck based around playing a creature you must topdeck an answer to win isn't?

In short, i would rather not have to worry about countering my own creatures and take up valuable spots doing so and keep the fat beatstick as well as the keeping the disrupt number as high as possible.

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Originally Posted by Forgottenforce

What? No Tombstalker doesn't require Dark Ritual, it requires graveyard food, yes. This "food" is mainly fed by playing disrupts and is aided by Fetchlands. Sure it would make a Stalker come out sooner but that is saying the obvious.

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Yes, Tombstalker DOES require Dark Ritual because:

1.) You play creatures that will either find themselves in play or the Exiled pile.
2.) You play a little slower removal.
3.) You run no fetches.
4.) You run no Dark Ritual.
5.) You run Wasteland.

Putting this all into context, without Dark Ritual, you are better off waiting until turn four or later to drop a Persecutor. It is better than Tombstalker in this deck. Of course it is obvious; that's the reason why I'm bringing it up because you obviously haven't paid attention how the deck functions without Dark Ritual. Tombstalker is awful in this deck.

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This strategy has been working wonders for eva green. Being MBA's predecessor, it is now getting all the results while maintaining the same style of play just that extra splash for goyf and Sb options. So saying this isn't viable i would have to disagree.

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No, you're wrong. Adding an additional color opens you up to serious color-screw against cards like Wasteland, Stifle, and Moon effects, which we covered earlier as to why we decided to run a single color. Eva Green is not similar and runs a completely different removal and creature suite than The Gate. One plays Dark Ritual, the other doesn't. One plays Tombstalker, the other plays Persecutor. It's as simple as that. I never said it wasn't viable in general, it simply isn't viable in here.

These are two completely different decks and the similarities are few and far in between. Try and grasp this.

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And a deck based around playing a creature you must topdeck an answer to win isn't?

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This deck runs eighteen creatures, in addition to the multiple tokens Bitterblossom can churn out each turn. The goal of the deck was to optimize card selection by implementing a "two for one" strategy so that the deck's draws are more powerful than the stereotypical Mono-Black shell. Again, this deck likes to "one for one" or "two for one", so generating card advantage is hardly ever a problem. Believe it or not, not every deck needs mana-intensive library manipulation (i.e. Sensei's Divining Top) to be effective, so hopefully that clears that thought.

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In short, i would rather not have to worry about countering my own creatures and take up valuable spots doing so and keep the fat beatstick as well as the keeping the disrupt number as high as possible.

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Playing Dark Ritual and Tombstalker in this deck is a horrible idea. You fall into the category of players willing to accept a dead draw late-game in order to power out a large creature faster in hopes an opponent doesn't play one of the ninety removal or bounce spells the format has to offer. The deck runs enough disrupt to supplement its forces and doesn't need to deplete its own hand in order to do so. Trading tempo for card advantage at a more methodical rate is a much more effective solution because of the cheap removal the deck runs anyways. Sure, you could Ritual into discard first and nab removal. I hardly ever want my opponent to discard removal; I want to take what makes their deck tick (i.e. a combo piece, a valuable enchantment or artifact, etc.) instead of a singular removal spell. Sometimes, it is the best option. Unfortunately, it is not worth the effort to put in when you simply do not have to overextend your resources to churn a creature like that out; it just isn't worth the card disadvantage.

In short, those valuable spots you refer to are wasted slots dedicated on a faster tempo-based start and not a more drawn-out approach to the first several turns. There's a reason why this deck also places well, and it is in large part that it doesn't need to empty its hand turn two to win the game. Abyssal Persecutor is just better in this deck; I'm sorry.

Notes:

YES, i have gone back to 3 McFaeryBurgers MAIN.
Why? Well, i found her so freaking useful in almost EVERY matchup, the only one i had to board her out was Zoo.
Seriously --> Lands, Loam, T h resh, Reanimator, Thopter-Shit all those Matchups beg for the Faery.


my recent List


// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
18 [ZEN] Swamp (1a)
3 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [WWK] Abyssal Persecutor
4 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
3 [SHM] Faerie Macabre

// Spells
3 [TE] Diabolic Edict
3 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (3)
2 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [OD] Innocent Blood
2 [MOR] Bitterblossom
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [ARE] Duress
2 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 4 [M11] Deathmark
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 [5E] Nevinyrral's Disk


Notes to the Sideboard:
PiNeedle -> Any Planeswalker, EE, Thopter, Fetchies, Academy Ruins, Life from the Loam and on and on and on
Deathmark -> .... green and white ....
Leyline -> Reanimator (mull until u have it) , and everything the McFae ist enuff :)
Disk -> Dunno why..... maybe random



EDIT:
After the games i just played: WHAT THE HELL do i do versus White-Stax ?!?!?

EDIT2:
Death and Taxes.... i hate this deck so badly
It f*c*ing s*x ba**s !!!
I never draw a single McFaery and loose to this shitty Sword of Light and Shadow on a crappy Factory---- rly annoying

Just came in 3rd out of 67 at Jupiter Games' 2 Year Anniversary Event with The Gate! I'll have a report up sometime tomorrow (hopefully)!

I humbly await your report. I've come around to your position on "steady vs explosive". I'm especially interested in your sideboarding.

I'm the guy whose ass you kicked second round yesterday. It was cool meeting you and a blast to watch you play this thing. Gratz on the finish!

I noticed yesterday that you were boarding Spinning Darkness. Being a habitual Eva Green player, I've been meaning to try that myself, but I hadn't gotten around to it. I'm quite interested to hear how that worked for you, if you don't mind.

Can we talk Bitterblossom for a second? I'm just not sold on it. In testing, I've felt it's been slow and largely ineffective. Not to say it's a bad card, because it certainly doesn't seem to be that, I guess I'm just not sold on it for this deck. I feel like something more threatening can be put in there. Though a body every turn when you're keeping as much board control as this deck does makes sense, something just doesn't seem to click with it.

My second thought is as follows: I've read most of this thread, and only done informal testing (yes, I'm going to be that guy who posts his opinion without actually testing), but feel like I've got a fairly reliable white-splash version. It doesn't run Wastelands, because, honestly, they're expensive and I don't have any. I'm also currently running Smother MD over Deathmark, but that's quite tentative. I just moved from DC to Chicago, and haven't had a chance to play here yet and see what the meta is, so the Smothers are in there on the off chance that Gobbies or Merpeople are favored out here...who knows, we'll find out. Changes aside, I've tried to stick with the original theme, because frankly, it's awesome.

19 Creatures
4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Dark Confidant
3 Faerie Macabre

7 Removal
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Smother

10 Discard
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach

3 Umezawa's Jitte

21 Lands
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Scrubland
1 Plains
8 Swamps

Like I said, all I've done is casual testing against proxied-out versions of better decks in the format, and for the most part it seems the name of the game is consistently hating on their hand early, with Bob providing ridiculously good CA to keep the board clean and Persecutor doing his thing. If anything, I've found this to be incredibly consistent. At the end of the day, though, it's only been casual testing, so it could suck awfully. We'll see. Your guys' thoughts are appreciated!

Forgot my SB:
4 Leyline of the Void for Reanimator
1 Deathmark, 2 Path to Exile for Zoo, Goblins, Merfolk
3 Sadistic Sacrament for Enchantress? I would imagine Dystopia would work better here?
1 Faerie Macabre for further Reanimator backup
1 Hymn to Tourach to round out the Combo hate?
3 Pithing Needle for Planeswalkers.

What am I forgetting or just being stupid about?

i like that list. swords is a solid addition as removal and a way to kill your own percy but when splashing white i find gerrards verdict, stoneforge mystic, and vindicate all want to come along for the ride too and suddenly its deadguy ale :)

you should play around with snuff out. its great for goblin lackeys and lets you do stuff like play hymn to tourach on turn 2 instead of saving mana to smother your opponents goyf that will swing next turn or letting you equip a jitte and kill your opponents blocker in the same turn.

i also found bitterblossom unfocused without contamination or some way to abuse the card.

i prefer extirpate over sadistic sacrament which i found to be way to slow without dark ritual.

engineered plague in the sideboard is one i always waffle on. Its very nice against elfball and goblins. merfollk dont seem to care about plague cuz of their 500 lords and it has minor use against dredge, enchantress, thoptertop.

The Gate places third out of sixty-seven at Jupiter Games' Two Year Anniversary Event!

Here is the full report!

I would wonder if at this point the deck does deserve a spot in the Established Forum based on its growing development and recent performances.

Good report, thanks!
But you did not write your side-ins and, especially, your side-outs :(

Ans it's not pleasant to flip Soul Spike or Spinning Darkness over Confidant ))

Very cool report. It's definitely convinced me to up my MD Deathmarks, but Bitterblossom? Still not sold...how did it end up functioning, as more a consistently-there chump blocker?

What would you say are the advantages of playing this instead of the dozens of other midrange strategies available in the format?

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Originally Posted by Hollywood

The Gate places third out of sixty-seven at Jupiter Games' Two Year Anniversary Event!

Here is the full report!

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Good stuff.

MWS'ed your exact list from upthread. Unfortunately, my very first game I drew 2 swamps and a Wasteland all game, so I never got a chance to kick my Gatekeeper. Do you think that maindeck Wasteland's EFFECT is strong enough? I noticed in your report that you wastelanded a land here & there, but did it really impact the ending of the game? (I ended up swapping them for 4 more swamps in my brief foray last night -- I really think the deck thrives on 20 swamps) EDIT: I see they had the most effect in the Top 4 Zoo game, but you still ended up losing, hence my question.

Relic: did you ever side it in? Did you ever see it? Did you wish they'd been +2 Macabres? Leylines?

You only had 2 Jittes available for the tournament. In other testing, have you ever found 3 in the deck to be too many? (I went down to two in my build, for +1 Hymn, iirc, as all the other good cards are already being run as 4-of's...)

...away from the tournament, Chalice@1 hasn't ever been much of an issue in my testing (decks w/ Chalice don't pack enough threats to worry about blanking The Gate's 1cc spells, which are all answers), but what about Counter+top? Lots of 1's & 2's in the deck...

Anyhow, congrats.

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Originally Posted by mujadaddy

but what about Counter+top? Lots of 1's & 2's in the deck...

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Yes, the same question. As I understand, two things The Gate could do against on-line CounterTop is Persecutor (4cc is rarely) and Nevinyrral's Disk in G2&3.