[Deck] Dragon Stompy

...so how would the other way of DS the "Moon-MUD" look like?

If i should come up with a list, it would look like this:


4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Blightsteel Colossus

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
3 Mox Opal
3 Trinisphere
2 Lightning Greaves

4 Blood Moon

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Crystal Vein
4 Great Furnace
4 Wasteland
1 Snow-Covered Mountain


but that doesn't look good IMO...


...as for the straight Hellbent-lists, I think Ivanpeis is the best there...


Oh, and sry that I forgot to say it before, GZ to the great playings Masamune, too bad that you got DQed because of that mulligan-stuff >.<

What decks do we actually SB Ratchet Bomb in for? O.o

I've been play DS a lot at tourneys lately because I've become bored with Rock and Enchantress, and for the life of me I have not found a particular MU where I found myself wishing I had a Ratchet. Against Enchantress, yeah, there could be some justification but Anarchy solves this MU quite nicely, and saves us 3 turns of waiting/avoids getting O-Ring. In theory it could work against Merfolk but I rarely see myself being permitted 3+ turns to rack up counters. I think I may replace the Bomb's with Shattering Spree. Since SFM package has become so popular I'm finding myself getting owned quite frequently by equipment, so having an out to that might be conveinant.

My current SB is:

3 Flametongue Kavu
4 Ratchet Bomb
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Pyrokinesis

I'm starting to wish more and more for MD removal and less lock pieces so I'm contemplating losing some moon effects, possibly a Slogger, and the 4th 3sphere I put in/out every week in exchange for perhaps MD Pyrokinesis. It's just rather annoying when I get swarmed early-game with no way to deal with it, or when I see them drop a Bob and rack up huge card advantage.

Lately I'm finding myself returning to Sloggers... again. For the longest time I got the worst draws with them but tonight they really proved to be the MVP at a tournament. Albeit the results were a mere 2-2 (with one loss being because I wasn't paying attention to triggers when I attacked with a Level 6 Lord and my opponent Vialed in that Knight Lord that gives indestructible to Knights; he should have lost the Knight Lord but I wasn't paying attention and let him keep it. Then on his turn he vials in a 2nd then I lost... yeah, my bad --'). I also tested out -4 RPD +3 Lord of S/P +1 RAkroma. I actually found myself quite pleased with the replacement. While I've always loved RPD I found the 2RR to be just too annoying to cast when I'm stuck on 2 Sol lands, and the fact that he's so damned mana hungry made Lord an ample replacement.

@ ThoSha

So far your list is looking similar to what I had in mind. The 2 MD Metamorph seems to be sufficient for what we need it to do while not being a dead card. I'm not sure how I feel about the Priests. I'm not denying that they essentially become a free weenie enabling us to still drop a lock piece, on the other hand I'm already loathe to topdeck SSG/Mox/Seething late game not to mention a 4th mana source. ^^' I personally may opt to keep Revoker in the SB (Yes, I know how amazing it is MD but against certain decks it just isn't the all-amazing MVP we need). I feel like the needs a 3rd beater. Possibly Etched Champion? I'm starting to love the "pro-all," ability althought that would make Mox less amazing.

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble so I'll just leave my post at this.

ForlornEgoist

Quote:

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What decks do we actually SB Ratchet Bomb in for? O.o

I've been play DS a lot at tourneys lately because I've become bored with Rock and Enchantress, and for the life of me I have not found a particular MU where I found myself wishing I had a Ratchet. Against Enchantress, yeah, there could be some justification but Anarchy solves this MU quite nicely, and saves us 3 turns of waiting/avoids getting O-Ring. In theory it could work against Merfolk but I rarely see myself being permitted 3+ turns to rack up counters. I think I may replace the Bomb's with Shattering Spree. Since SFM package has become so popular I'm finding myself getting owned quite frequently by equipment, so having an out to that might be conveinant.

I'm starting to wish more and more for MD removal and less lock pieces so I'm contemplating losing some moon effects, possibly a Slogger, and the 4th 3sphere I put in/out every week in exchange for perhaps MD Pyrokinesis. It's just rather annoying when I get swarmed early-game with no way to deal with it, or when I see them drop a Bob and rack up huge card advantage.

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Re: Ratchet Bomb, I agree, I've been questioning Ratchet Bomb in a couple of pages here. Its selling point is that it can wipe out almost any type of permanent, but it's slow at... wiping out permanents. The sb is used to tip matchups in your favor. What matchups do Ratchet Bomb decidedly tip in your favor?

Have you tried Volcanic Fallout over Pyrokinesis?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThoSha

Any thoughts on this list?

6 mountain
4 Great Furnace
8 sol lands

4 ssg
4 priest of urabrask
2 phyrexian metamorph
4 chrome mox
2 SOBM
2 Jitte
2 Moltensteel Dragon
4 Covetous Dragon
3 Trinisphere
4 Magus
4 Moon
3 Revoker
4 Chalice

SB:
2 metamorph
3 anarchy
1 revoker
3 rachet bomb
4 shattering spree
2 boil/crypt/pyroblast flex slot

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I really like this list a lot. I like the inclusion of the priest because, as you said, it's a threat that not only fixes mana, but you can then drop a lock piece.
Your list doesn't look like it needs manafixing though. Being able to dump a card plays nicely with Hellbent.
Not to steal your thunder but I might test something like the following (inspired by the inclusion of priest).

10 mountain
8 sol lands

4 ssg
4 priest of urabrask
4 Gathan Raiders
4 chrome mox
4 Seething Song
4 Rakdos Pit-Dragon
2 Trinisphere
4 Magus
4 Moon
2 Arc-Slogger
2 Revoker
4 Chalice

SB:
2 metamorph
3 anarchy
1 revoker
3 rachet bomb
3 pyrokinesis
3 crypt

This forgoes the metamorphs in the main. The priest fixes mana here by allowing the deck to have 8 ways to get RR from 2R. This allows Arc-Slogger, which is typically the card that Dragon Stompy players hate not being able to cast and annoying without song, to be more reliably cast. IMO, Slogger is the card that people waver on so much because of issues with casting it, especially in the Hellbent list.

Even Pit-Dragon can be difficult to cast on occasion. Priest gives RR for this as well, obviously. With no moon out, it can pump the dragon/give evasion. I think it speeds up the deck quite a bit and allows us to make better use of the early game where we're pretty much just sitting there dropping a lock piece that may or may not stick around.

The priest helps get a threat out, drop a lockpiece, and assists Hellbent here. I cut the equipment because dropping more threats is important in my opinion. This is why we drop to 2 3sphere for two revoker. We get an extra threat that doubles as a lockpiece, is easier on the mana, and lessens games where multiple 3spheres are frustrating.

I think the other threats are superior than running equipment. I'm sure that this is something that is personal preference. However, if you're like me, you have a hard time recovering if too many threats are removed. I think priest and revoker both advance this list's gameplan by both being a threat and either disrupting or accelerating.

The real question is, and what testing will reveal, is it better to go for a turn 1 priest of of a spirit guide with only a double land as your only land or to just cast the 3sphere/moon effect(?)?
If the opponent counters the priest and you don't topdeck a mana source, there's no chance you'll be casting the 3sphere/moon effect or a morph/seething song any time soon.

The question the opponent has to ask is, "should I save my counter for what he's casting afterwards? What if he has another mana source? Is my next play something that is going to benefit me greatly before he untaps and tries to play it next turn?". I think permission decks are going to want to mana screw you. If they can get a waste on the City/Tomb afterwards that is going to hurt.

So, is the priest the must counter? Or does the opponent let him resolve, counter your magus and swords the priest (if they even feel like it)? I think a 10 turn clock makes that a pretty easy decision but maybe I'm wrong.

Sorry for playing both sides, but it has to be done when justifying a card's inclusion.

All in all, I think this deck has some of ThoSha's spirit. However, I prefer Hellbent over the non-hellbent, possibly more consistent, artifact version. I think Metamorph is good in the board because I don't see room for it at this time. I think it could replace Revoker by being 3CMC, more moon redundancy with magus, and potentially great with Gathan Raiders, Slogger, and RPD. Testing will reveal this.
The threats just seem better, but this version lacks the ability to drop a 2nd land and drop jitte, equip on the priest, and swing. However, I think it's real value lies in getting an extra threat on the board (equipped or not) and slipped into play under our first lockpiece and then dropping better threats like RPD, Gathan Raiders in future turns. I think the priest won't be too terribly disappointing later because as I said, it can be used to pump RPD or more reliably cast Slogger. I think it adds the extra acceleration and consistency Hellbent Dragon Stompy needed. I am not saying it cures it's inconsistency, but it helps.

Sideboard:
imo I go with crypt. Kinesis and bombs great for swarms/tribal (maindeck sloggers help too). Didn't mess with much else since we have white covered, an extra revoker for you name it, and crypt for graveyards.

I really like what you guys have been coming up with recently. However, I'm not convinced that the artifact route is the way to go. I just personally feel that it is more fragile (ironic coming from a Hellbent version pilot but that's what I feel).

Keep up the good work!

I've been pretty adament about keeping Pyrokinesis up to this point, but I may consider replacing it with some type of board sweep either with Volcanic Fallout, Pyroclasm or possibly Cave-In. I've liked Pyro because it enables Hellbent and is free but my current list runs only Gathan for Hellbent so it's far less relevant. I also experienced yesterday one of those moments where I had a 3sphere on the field and Pyro in hand and thought to myself, "Oh, yeah.... thats why 3sphere is good against counter decks." :P I think I'll keep the Kavu in the SB as he deals the same damage, plays around 3sphere and gives me a 4/2 body to use. The 1RR on Fallout is annoying but the instant speed is rather nice (my meta has all of 1 CounterTop deck and 1-2 Bants so I'm less worried about counters).

@ Octopusman

Equipment, in particular Jitte, acts as a threat. The average decklist runs anywhere from 18-23 threats which is more than enough to support equipment. An active Jitte as I'm sure every player knows is one of the most annoying things to play against. Suddenly you can kill off any weenies, recoup life lost, or compete in some cases with even 'Goyf and KotR. I run 3 MD Jitte if nothing else because it can help shore up what I think is the decks main weakness: lack of creature removal.

As for your argument about mind games in regards to an opponent questioning whether or not to counter an acceleration spell like Song, I think an opponent will typically let it resolve.The primary MU where it's relevant whether or not to counter acceleration is Belcher which is already a good MU for them. Countering acceleration doesn't negate threats it just delays them. Most players will let you resolve acceleration and just counter the card they view as a threat.

ForlornEgoist

What about Goblin Flotilla? Does it have a place in sideboards with all the equipment being used now?

Tauren Mauler is pretty much better against Merfolk, seeing as Lord of Atlantis pumps him and gives him Islandwalk too.

Greetings! First of all, my thanks to NecroYawgmoth for creating a new and really interesting thread, and to Tacosnape for providing his invaluable advice and ideas. You guys rock!!
Only one question: are we 100% sure that if a Magus is cast before a Humility it acts as a 1/1 Blood Moon?

I've been absent for a while and will be for the next 2 months but it is said that the criminal always returns to the crime scene:D
So...I haven't played a lot lately. But here's one crude idea, that I PMd to NecroYawg. DS's plan is to screw multicolor mana and cheap spells in the first place right? Where does this masterplan leak?

Mono-color (basics) that also half-evade chalice, alternative mana-producers (moxes, hierarchs, etc..), Dredge-like play style via graveyard, Vial, and maybe some artifact decks. Also decks -like the aggro-loam deck- that use the red mana transmuted by Moons. The printing of Revoker partially solved this. But we still can't manage all monocolored decks that well. When I say monocolored I mean decks like Goblin or Merfolk -and I'm very curious about the Gate playing Obliterators on top of its other black tricks.

I'm just wondering what would happen if we played 3 Trinis, maybe 3 Lodestone Golems (I've been an advocate against it in the past:)), AND 3 Aftershocks. Along with 20 creatures, 4 Chalices, 3 Moons, 4 Moxes and 18 lands. And we even have 3 free slots (could be equipments), along with 23 creatures, AND more lockpieces.

Firstly I thought that in a deck that doesn't search cards, we should follow the Moons' example: 6-8 pieces. We can't be based on any Land destruction +Trini combo.. Trinisphere is only 3-4 times in the deck. However we could be based on a wider Trini-Lodestone-Aftershock-Revoker "combo". Revoker-Aftershock are alike in destroying alternative mana producers. So 3+4=7 of them. Trini and Lode increase cost...a pretty good way to slow down monocolored decks with cc 1-4. 3 Trinis+ 3 Golems = 6 again. Golem and Revoker have feet..that means at least 24 threats, more locks, and a little LD for the basics or creature-arty removal.
After that, something like 2 Boil, 2 Anarchy, 3 S.Spree, 3 Kinesis/Bomb, 3 Tombs/Faeries and 2 Arenas/Metamorphs could do it.

This is just an idea, possibly a bad one. I don't test much right now, I'm just full of theory. But I really think we should focus on Dragon Stompy masterplan's leaking point. Hell, if we can't play an RPD with Golem down, let's leave the Golem alone do some beating, or sacrifice it worthily. If we cannot achieve Hellbent that way, let us play 3 Raiders, 3 Dragons, 2 Lords and 2 Sloggers for example. The problem is not how to achieve hellbent in this deck as many of you people realise. The problem is how to win more efficiently, using a simple strength/weakness analysis. (And have fun before that;)

I played Golem's lawyer as well as I could:) Do not see the Golem addition as the "perfect" idea...Just check out the idea behind the Golem. For instance, if this does not work well, 4 R.Bombs maindecked with 3 Aftershocks could be brutally good. Another multipurpose 7-pack -for a deck that does not search- that also patches up the main plan's fault. I have to mention here that both Fransesco Dalla Via and James Mink played Kegs AND Pyrokinesis/clasms (in their sideboard) and you all know how well they did. That's lots of removal on top of lock pieces guys. You want creature removal? Bombs +Aftershocks (+2 Sloggers +Jitte). Artifact?(Vial, Mox, etc.) You have Bombs +Aftershocks +Revoker. Against monocolored stuff you have 3 A-shocks plus Bombs to kill half their chalice-evasive-yet-cheap-to-cast army.

@ Zupponn: wouldn't you prefer Colos Yearling to this Goblin Flotilla?

@ mercs: Could you tell us in which match-ups have your metamorphs been useful? In Sneak and Tell & Reanimator for sure I guess..

I have a bad feeling about Dragon Stompy at the moment... maybe New Phyrexia and the print of MM will change this, but we will see...

I think we need some kind of mass removal in our board because any swarmaggro is a huge problem. Slogger solves this problem, but not much... Slogger resolves 1 out of 100 against Folk, and it gets easily Dazed or hardcountered anyway.

@Odysseus: 3 Trini & 3 Golem & 3 Equipments & 4 Chalice & 4 Revoker & 4 Mox = 21 -> + 18 Lands = 39 -> this leaves 21 cards, this 21 cards need ALL to be red, for imprinting in Chrome Mox. 21 cards could be a little bit too few. [also note that I only calculated 3 Trinis, 3 Golems, 3 Equipments [I think that 4 EQs is optimal], and all of this cards could be played as a 4 off also. New stuff like Moltensteel Dragon or Phyrexian Metamorph aren't even included in this calculations. If we get more artifact orientated we end up playing Steel Stompy, or playing a 16-18 red cards deck, which would mean, we must exchange Chrome with Diamond then [playing like 3-4 more lands]. Opal is no solution, because DS absolutely NEEDS the 1st turn mana acceleration.

@ Zupponn Oo, what kind of card is that? If you want unblockability Mountain Yeti and Colos Yearling are both better and still not good =(, if you want a decent First Striker play Porcelain Legionaire... which leads me to the next point:


Ivanpei has said this in an other thread, and this a big part of the reaon why I have a bad feeling of DS. and Ivanpei is right in many ways with it IMO.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Brainstorming
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...Ever-Get-There

The ONLY strength Dragon Stompy has is Blood Moons and COTV [and to a certain point Trinisphere], if this cards got handled, we are playing with a bad cards.deck.:eek: You can try to argue against it as much as you want, but Gathan Raiders and Rakdos Pit Dragon are my NO MEANS good creatures. They are desperate options because we have no better creatures available. I think that the approach of the W-Hatebear-Chalice-Aggro will outclass DS as it has much more flexibility and constance than DS has...

Okay, maybe not the Flotilla, but how about Omen of Fire? Is it better than running both Boil and Anarchy in the sideboard?

@ Gathan/RPD:

I agree, neither is incredibly ideal anymore. Currently I have substituted RPD for Lord of S/P and my 3rd Slogger. As such I've been performing rather well thus far with the substitution. I consider Lord to be essentially the red version of 'Goyf in that for a reasonable investment (by the standards of a deck with 8 sol lands and 12 mana accelerants) he is a cheap investment that can handle any creature with exception to KotR and other such creatures. 'Goyf at best against us is a 5/6 with exception to the rare instance we nix a Planeswalker to the 'yard. Not to mention his ultimate is quite a nice board clear later in the game.

As for Gathan while he stills see some play by me as of right now I'm finding less and less use in him. Right now the biggest value I've been finding him to have is to hide the singleton RAkroma in my build. I may look at doing a 2/2 split of Lodestone/Moltensteel, perhaps dropping my 3rd slogger to up the Lodestone count to 3.

@ Omen of Fire:

Its not a horrible card by any means and it can answer multiple decks saving SB space for decks that have a tighter SB than someone like me, but its flaws are distinguishable. Firstly, with Boil you force them to shuffle/Top/Cantrip into lands if they want to retain ability to answer our threats. You nix any island including the basics they tutored to undermine our Moon effects. With Omen albeit you screw them just the same but you permit them to keep lands essentially providing them with the ability to come back. A resolved Boil depending on the game state and deck can sometimes mean gg whereas a resolved Omen doesn't necessarily gurantee the same thing.

In regards to the second aspect of hitting white permanants the primary MU Anarchy is used in from what I can tell is Enchantress, White Stax (to hit Angels/Moat), and as I've done sometimes against decks like Rock to deal with KotR. Albeit with Anarchy we run the risk of running into a Karmic Justice but it also gives us the ability to remove Solitary Confinement and Moat which could be keeping them alive. With Omen they can opt to sac plains to retain either cards. Albeit denying them white can be relevant, but they also have Utopia Sprawl and Serra's Sanctum to fall back on, not to mention they realistically only need 1 plains period. With their massive CA they'll have no difficulty finding it.

Omen isn't necessarily a bad card and I like its duality and the ability to save SB slots, but I really think its a card you want to use carefully. Both Boil and Anarchy provide solid game-winning effects upon resolution most of the time whereas Omen isn't quite so assured.

ForlornEgoist

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NecroYawgmoth

I
The ONLY strength Dragon Stompy has is Blood Moons and COTV [and to a certain point Trinisphere], if this cards got handled, we are playing with a bad cards.deck.:eek: You can try to argue against it as much as you want, but Gathan Raiders and Rakdos Pit Dragon are my NO MEANS good creatures. They are desperate options because we have no better creatures available. I think that the approach of the W-Hatebear-Chalice-Aggro will outclass DS as it has much more flexibility and constance than DS has...

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I agree with this statement. But that's not a bad thing.

The fact is, that Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon and Chalice of the Void/Trini are such incredibly backbreaking cards that they win games by themselves even while playing with a far inferior subset of creatures when compared to most other decks.

But there is nothing about Blood Moon, Magus or Chalice that say they need to be paired up crappy creatures.

I think pairing them up with Lodestone Golems, equipment, and either additional disruption like Stone Rain, or Metalworkers, Covetous Dragons, Wurmcoil Engines, maybe Goblin Welder type threats is a viable route.

Most importantly though, it means that whenever Wizards does print some really powerful spells and creatures that cost 2R or 3R, this deck will come back with a vengence.

Alternatively, who says we can't morph this into a control deck with a stompy base.

Blood Moon + Magus + Chalice + Really powerful removal/control cards like Firespout, Metamorph, Ensnaring Bridge (completely cripples creature based strategies and can be recurred with Goblin Welder) and just one strong untargetable, recursive or artifact based win condition (Belcher, Cursed Scroll, Millstone, Call of the Skybreaker) could fare well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clark Kant

I agree with this statement. But that's not a bad thing.

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Yeah, Chalice, Moons and Trini are really backbreaking. But how can you say it's not a bad thing to play with "bad creatures"? :confused: The Format is Tarmogoyf / Knight / Emrakul / Lordpumping big Folk creatures. Our Goyfskull Pass costs 4 mana more than regular Goyf. Our critters are bad, and I don't see any good substitues. Hell, I am going to test Covetous again, at least he is a big 3 Turn Clock with evasion, and EQ makes him more scary.


Omen of Fire is a bad card IMO. Anarchy is better [and cheaper] against White, and Boil is a card that isn't good enough against Folk.


BTW, how would an controllish version look like? I really can imagine something like 4 Ensnaring Bridges, but how do we win then? Koth / Chandra? Crucible/Stack...??? More controlish looks like Red Stax, More towards artifact Aggro looks like MUD with Moons...

It's good in the sense that the deck manages to do fairly well, even while playing such inferior threats (relative to their mana costs).

The fact that the deck does well, despite this limitation, points to the fact that the decks core disruption package (Moon effect, Chalice, Trini) is incredibly powerful.

We just need find something else to pair off this disruption package with. The

1. Moon Stax/Lodestone Golem/Stone Rain approach,

2. Controllish Firespout/Ensnaring Bride/Welder approach

3. Moon MUD approach

4. Agressive Affinity build with 8 Moon effects approach

all seem valid and I'm convinced that atleast one of those four is a superior direction to take this deck's disruption package towards. Some of these directions seem like they would fare better with Mox Opal instead of Chrome Mox.

The current approach is fine. I've top 16'd twice (loosing the last round to bad matchups to miss top 8) and someone recently placed very highly in a very large event with a very traditional build (found it - Masamune did it)

What we really need, is for wizards to print some creatures that are actually at an equivalent power level for their casting costs at the 2R, 3R and such casting costs - especially 2R. Preferably cards that aren't situationally good. Preferably cards that don't require continued resource investment to bring them up to their highest power level.

Until this happens, it is going to best for the deck to continue with what it has (the cheapest fat we can find). I personally feel that the 4 deck ideas you presented are all variations of decks that are fundamentally not dragon stompy

The metalcraft red stompy lists are interesting though. I would explore them if I had the time and capital to do so. Unfortunately - I don't. So I'll just keep going with what I have (at least until mental mistep starts to thin out)

Hopefully I'll have something to report after the weekend

So what do you guys think about this non-Hellbent approach?

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Priest of Urabrask
3 Covetous Dragon
3 Flametongue Kavu
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Moltensteel Dragon
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Snow-Covered Mountain

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4 Pyrokinesis / Pyroclasm
3 Anarchy
3 Shattering Spree
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Tormods Crypt

I have been watching the discussions for the past few weeks and don't get me wrong I think inproving the deck against bad match ups is a good thing but not if it makes the deck worse overall.

This deck in essence says "F#$% you" to the entire legacy Meta on a good day.

"You run an unstable Manabase"
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon

"Your mana curve stops at 2"
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void

"You only play 1 win condition that is activated"
4 Phyrexian Revoker

But the first 2 locks are that definite that we need to play arround it not to screw ourselves.

Minimum cmc of 2 preferably 3. (and ofcourse in red and colorless)

This limits the choice of beatsticks heavily.
For me I still like the Hellbent route but I like FTK als but for now I prefer the Evasion of the dragons.

So my critters will be:

4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Gathan Raiders
2 Moltensteel Dragon

Some Equipment:

2 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Umezawa’s Jitte

And the Mana ofcourse:
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
10 Mountain

And SB something like: (If someone has suggestions I'm open to them ;-) )

3 Anarchy
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage


Guess what I try to say is this:
Dragon Stompy can be like like "The Spanish Inquisition" (Not the deck but the Monthy Python sketch)
It can be annoying as hell and silly at the same time. It reminds people of the disadvantages of the decks they are playing
(Low manacurve, non basic lands) and that they need to take precausions.
(play basics, more variation in manacurve, etc)
As long as people don't do that, this deck can be the bomb (on a good day)
But when people are reminded of this (or face Dragon Stompy more often) this deck will be nothing more then mediocre.
ATM the local meta here is pretty favorable, about 35% ANT and lots of non Basics and low mana curves...
And expect this will continue for a 1 or 2 months so for me I will continue to run Dragon Stompy for a while since everybody will be toying arround with Mental Misstep for now.
But when the Meta shifts or people start to prepare for Dragon Stompy I will not try to fight the meta I will just happily take another deck. (And convert Dragon Stompy back to Imperial Painter or something)

anyway those are my 2 cents ;-)

Jelmer

Actually I don't like Moltensteel Dragon... Can anyone share all strategies with it? I read all of those Dragon posts written days ago when NPH came.
My point is (thinking playing any moon/ chalice/ trini effect thouhg):
Turn 1 for instace: Tomb, or even Mox, Chalice/ Moon (-2 life)
Turn 2: Tap tomb with some red mana floating and play MD (-2 Tomb again and -4 cc)
Turn 3 we have 12 life,remaining in peril moment while opp can just play a single removal like Edicts, Doomblades or any other stuff

I mean that Dragon makes our lifes down faster. I never go swing hurting me anymore giving to itself more and more attack pump with lifes. IMO isn't interesting

Thoughts? :eyebrow:

Does Phyrexian Metamorph have a role in this deck? It seems like it can be potentially brutal since it can copy Dragons and Raiders, combat Goyfs and take down legends (Progen is the big one here).

Not a big fan of Moltensteel Dragon since you hemorrhage life, which is actually a big issue against decks like Zoo.

Sword of War and Peace seems very strong in the aggro match up.

I am a massive fan of Moltensteel Dragon, but I'm not entirely certain it's a good fit for this deck. It represents a large investment of mana and/or life for a relatively mediocre creature that dies to nearly every single removal spell present in the format. Also, given the amount of life you're sacrificing for various acceleration and whatnot, it puts this particular deck in an even more precarious situation. I mean, while an extra mana is worth 2 life starting turn 1 in order to play lock pieces, I don't think it translates directly to an advantageous trade later in the game.

It also doesn't slot effectively into the mana curve where you really need an extra threat, which is at 2-3 mana. Options that I could find that might be worth trying are:

Defender of Chaos
Duergar Hedge-Mage
Arc Mage
Sulfur Elemental
Tattermunge Duo
Taurean Mauler
Thoughtbound Primoc

Taurean Mauler seems like the most obviously powerful creature, but Primoc seems to have little downside much of the time. Sulfur Elemental seems hilariously one-sided some of the time, and is one of the few creatures on the list that can conceivably dodge countermagic. Defender of Chaos is pretty weak on it's own, but it's the one creature on the list that doesn't get eaten by all the removal present in legacy.

Metamorph does fit the slot rather nicely, and shore up a couple of rough situations like Progenitus and the like. I'd say run more of him if you're concerned about having enough generic 3-mana threats.