From your list, I would have to say...Enlightened Tutor? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
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From your list, I would have to say...Enlightened Tutor? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
Cutting the 1off E-Tutor in the mainboard would do the following:
1)Weaken the CC3-Slot as it can fetch a O-Ring if needed.
2)Weaken the consitency of having CC2, a E-Tutor-fetched CB isn't a rare thing
3)Weaken the conistency about establishing the Top+Balance-Combo
4)Weaken the strength of the Tutor-Sideboard
I do not think that that's the right way. I may play the Elspeth in the side though.
Greetings
Hi guys,
here's my current list:
4 STP
4 BS
4 FOW
4 Top
4 CB
3 SCM
3 Terminus
3 Jace
3 Pierce
2 CS
1 Elspeth
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Oblivion Ring
[37]
8 Fetch
4 Tundra
1 G. Fortress
2 Plains
5 Island
3 Wasteland
[23]
SB:
2 Surgical Ex.
2 Relic
1 Pierce
2 Fluster Storm
2 PtE
1 Terminus
2 Disenchant
2 Clique
1 Jace
---------------------------
As you can see, I'm on the 3 Terminus / 1 Entreat side.
I'm very happy with those 3 MD Pierces and that singleton O. Ring.
Despite Show'n'Tell being 30/70 preboard and 40/60 post, my SB feels about right.
Feedback is appreciated.
@klaus: If you went -1 Tundra, +1 Glacial Fortress, Choke would be slightly easier to play around.
I considered that. But Choke seems to be disappearing from the meta with Glacial Fotresses making it semi-obsolete.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyC27
Thought I could be the one profiting from that and chose to play Tundras hoping to get away with it :wink:
But yeah, you're probably right.
At the most people seem to only play a single glacial fortress, so how is glacial fortress making choke obsolete?
What do people think of this list:
2 snapcaster mage
4 force of will
2 counterspell
3 spell pierce
1 spell snare
4 swords to plowshares
4 terminus
1 entreat the angels
4 sensei's divining top
4 brainstorm
4 jace, the mindsculptor
1 elspeth, knight errant
3 liliana of the veil
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
3-4 tundra
0-1 glacial fortrses
3 underground sea
1 scrubland
2 island
1 plains
1 swamp
3 wasteland
The only major differences between it and other lists that I've seen is that you splash black for liliana, who is strong, in my opinion, because she is versatile, being good against other control decks as a discarding machine that works well with top and brainstorm so you can discard useless things including miracles that are in your opening hand or that you simply don't want, putting pressure on combo decks by making them discard their cards, and because she kills creatures. Otherwise - counterbalance is in the board since your curve doens't work with it maindeck but you can take out terminus against combo to put in CB, or FOW's against some aggro decks or control mirrors, etc. There aren't many creatures, partially I suspect the deck works best as a true control list that blanks creature removal and just wins with Jace, Elspeth, or Entreat. Its possible that there should be 2-3 Entreats - I haven't tested more yet.
@rchinnock: Is it hard making WW for Elspeth/Entreat, BB for Liliana, and UU for Jace/Counterspell?
played hannis list on saturday on a small 17 man tourney (5 rounds)
list see here:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post644564
1. round: vs dredge
first game: he mulligans twice, I have force for his discard outlet, he is too slow, I beat him easily
second game: again he mulligans twice (keeps hand without dredge but 2 faithless looting and enough mana to flashback them, dunno if you really should keep a hand like that. I keep hand with 1 land and 1 surgical, I am stuck on 1 land for about 8 rounds, but I draw another surgical and he needs lot of time to find one dredger. With 2 lands and 2 snapcaster and a third surgical it is just a matter of time till i win.
2. round: vs nic fit
first game: CB top helps a lot, counter his lilli and deed, entreat for 4 gets there easily.
not sure what to board, I board out 4 force of will and board in 4 pierce just for the lulz and 2 disenchant (don't remember what I removed here) against choke. Actually I never see choke and after the game he admits he don't even have choke. XD
second game: easy win again: CB top Jace in play, he has an empty board but 36 life, 2 mishra and 1 snapcaster get there in time.
3. round: vs meerfolk
wtf this deck still around, he says it's a long time till he played lagacy and also makes mistakes but still I don't get there. No stps on time and no terminus when needed, daze and this 1cc instant/sorcery counterfish are annoying as hell.
not sure what to board, don't even remember
get smashed 0:2. :-/
4. round: vs hypergenesis
I just have more counters then he has, after board I have even +4 spell pierce, easily beat him in both games, CB with land and 3cc spell on top is gg.
5. round: vs sneak and show
first game: turn 3 sneak attack, with force and daze backup, not much I can do. No oblivion ring and with griselbrand and 18 life points he draws 7 two times and easily wins.
don't remember how I boarded but I did add: +4 spell pierce +2 humility +2 needle and +2 disenchant should have been +3, but couldn't decide what to board out.
second game: again turn 3 sneak attack, including enough counterbackup. I must admit my hand was probably too bad and I should have taken a mulligan, again, I have top and terminus on top so I try to use it when he wants to attack with griselbrand and emrakul but of course he has force and I have already no counter left.
gg
3 - 2, ok for the first time (never played the deck before) but should have done better against sneak and tell, it felt like I had 0% win chance. :-/ Also against merfolk, i thought the matchup should be good for me, but somehow felt the total opposite.
One thing is for sure, this deck is a hell of fun! Especially playing mishras is awesome, but I somehow I miss wasteland and crucible, dunno what to cut for them, but I am sure I will try that next time.
The manabase was good, maybe adding one land and go up to 23 won't hurt either, but having 4 tops and 4 brainstorm is a reason to play "only" 22. The manabase is a lot better then in UWb control/espeblade that's for sure.
What do you guys think of Restoration Angel in this deck ? it's a Jace killer as much as Elspeth - works well with Clique and snappy and you always have mana open to counter if need be.
don't think he will work in this kind of deck. When you say you want him in you also have to say what you would cut, especially since he is not really a one of like oblivion ring or vindicate, so you need like 2-3 spots for him.
you don't want to cut:
snapcaster: snyergy and just awesome, but you need 5 mana then for restoration angel and stp/brainstrom, not that good.
sfm: you need to cut the complete package, dunno about that
clique: better and only 3cc and you want the synergy
jace: no way
counterspells: dunno about that
lingering souls: maybe
the angel is also bad against combo.
I think you can cut some Entreats and replace it with the angel ( it is as bad vs combo then Jace or Entreat )Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorondor
I'm thinking of playing clique, sprite, snap hakes and the angel
you can pitch jace to force, that's sometimes really an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaslan
Sure with sprites, it might be worth a try. He is still mana heavy, maybe try chrome mox or mox diamond with crucible of course adding muta vault and wastelands.
Including all these changes, you would end up in a complete new deck. ;-)
That's the list I am playing atm:
//Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Island
3 Tundra
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Plains
2 Tropical Island
1 Windswept Heath/Misty Rainforest
//It's a miracle
4 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
//Counterspells
4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
3 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
//Creatures
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Timely Reinforcements
//Removal
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Oblivion Ring
//Library-Manipulation
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
//Planeswalker
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
//Sideboard
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Meddling Mage
2 Krosan Grip
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Humility
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Oblivion Ring
So, I kicked the Black-Splash in favor of the Green one. It opens me ( compared to straight UW ) the possibility of EE and Krosan Grip which is huge vs Batterskull, Choke and the mirror. I put the Reinforcements in the Mainboard as I was missing a CC3 spell that was argueably good vs fast burn-decks. This one just trumps Burn/UR Delver and is still nice against Canadian. I chose 22 land first, but then added the 23rd as the 61nd card, which worked just fine for me.
How is your opinion on the RUG-MU? I tested quite a lot and after all it was more like 50/50.. more like 50/50 (-) for us.
Greetings
I feel the pre-board match is actually better than 50/50. More like 60/40 or even 65/35. I ran about 8 to 10 games playing the list I played at SCG: Columbus against a local RUG player who is pretty good. If at anytime you resolve counterbalance and top the game is pretty much locked up and they can't beat you. Terminus is very strong against them and sometimes Entreating the Angel for one token is enough the stall the game out. Elspeth is also pretty good against them as you just make tokens to block their mongeese and Factories can serve the same purpose early game. Swords is still a house against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
Came in 2nd at the Syracuse GPT for Atlanta this past Saturday: I believe only 22 participants though. Rough report from the day, didn't take extensive notes, so any questions feel free to ask. Here's the list I brought:
Land
4 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
1 Celestial Colonnade
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas
Creatures
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
Instants
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
Sorceries
4 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
Artifacts
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Enchantments
3 Counterbalance
1 Oblivion Ring
Planeswalkers
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
SB
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Path to Exile
2 Spell Pierce
2 Disenchant
1 Porphyry Nodes
2 Humility
2 Pithing Needle
Round 1 - Nick with Burn:
Game 1 (P):
I've played against Nick in standard matches, didn't know he played any legacy, and everything becomes clear when I see his turn 1 mountain. My life total drops pretty quickly to 2 where I stabilized and beat him down to 10 with snapcaster + elspeth beats. I misplayed when I thought about swordsing my pumped snapcaster to get out of fireblast range, but I got greedy and wanted to close the game a turn earlier. I die the next turn to a fireblast.
Out: 4 Terminus
In: 2 Disenchant, 2 Spell Pierce
Game 2 (P):
I swords a t1 Goblin Guide. Turn 2, drop counterbalance, but have no top. I proceed to flip Force, Jace, Force, Oblivion Ring. Play Jace with 1 up at 2 life, he REBs and I tank for a bit of if it's worth fighting over Jace or risking that he has the fireblast (he's tapped out). I decide it's Jace for a good shot at CB-lock and game or I just die. I died.
I shake and say good game, but I was noticibly pissed about my flips. I was not pleased to start the day off like this.
Round 2 - James with Sneak & Show:
James was a very cool guy, this was the first time I'd ever met him and we talked a bit throughout the rest of the day, pleasure to play against.
Game 1 (I don't remember who play/drew):
My board is 4 Land, Snapcaster, Top, Jace, he has 5-6 land and attempts Sneak Attack. A counterwar clears both our hands but leaves him with a resolved Sneak Attak and 1 card, Emrakul. Sneak in Emrakul, swing, I sac everything but Jace and drop to 2, he has no hand. I go for the fateseal to hopefully pull this out, See Emrakul, bottom, pass. He untaps, draws, and...Spaghetti.
Out: 2 Entreat, 1 Elspeth, 4 Swords
In: 2 Spell Pierce, 2 Humility, 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Disenchant, 1 V. Clique
Game 2(P), I mull to 6, James mulls to 4, ehh:
I assemble CB-top while he plays lands/cantrips, then can't play cards and I drop Clique (revealing Griselbrand, 4x Emrakul...keep it) to beat him to death.
Game 3(D), James mulls to 6:
See G2.
Round 3 - Mathew with GW Big Shit:
Game 1(P):
As he's shuffling I see an elf and Craterhoof Behemoth from his deck so I put him on elves. When I see an opening seven of Top, 3x Swords, Snapcaster, 2 Land. I felt bad. I finish it with an entreated angel and factory. I find out through the game that he isn't running elves though, it's just mana dorks into 5,6,7 drop giant green creatures.
Out: 1 CB, 2 Spell Pierce
In: 1 Porphyry Nodes, 2 Humility
Game 2(D):
Counterspells, Swords, Snapcaster, Repeat until Snapcaster and a factory go the distance.
He was very reserved and obviously new to the format. I felt bad that this might be his first and last legacy event. I don't enjoy crushing newer players because it turns them off from the format that I only want to get bigger.
Round 4 - Alan with Sneak & Show:
I knew he was on Sneak & Show and he had watched me play against James earlier so he knew what I was up to. Before the game he looks a bit worried and mentions after watching me round 2 this was the only deck in the room he didn't want to see. He was a pleasure to play with though. He's one of the "combros" Bryant Cook has talked about if anyone's read Bryant's articles.
Game 1 (D):
Alan tries to cheat something fat into play around turn 4. I have double pierce and Force for his shenanegins. He's gassed out and a factory takes him down while I hoard more and more counters in case this happens again.
Out: 2 Entreat, 1 Elspeth, 4 Swords
In: 2 Spell Pierce, 2 Humility, 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Disenchant, 1 V. Clique
Game 2 (D):
Alan seems to have kept a cantrip heavy hand hoping to draw into business. He finally attempts Show and Tell around 6 life (factory beats), I counter. He plays Sneak Attack, I flip a Jace with CB that I put on top with Jace the turn before for this reason. I also had 4 active counters in hand :/
Round 5 - Colton with Reanimator:
ID into Top 8
I've played against Colton in 2 recent weekly legacy events though, we drew the first time around due to time, and I won the second time on the back of multiple terminus. This is the scariest matchup I've played with this deck though, which is unfortunate as there seems to be a resurgence due to Griselbrand.
*The prize pool for top 8 is $1000, to beat the split, you'd have to place 1 or 2, so everyone decides on a split ($125 cash, or $250 credit), and to just play for the byes - I should have not split and doubled my money, but oh well, rather not be stuck with $50.
Top 8 - Nick with UR Delver (more burn heavy with lava spikes):
Game 1 (P), I mull to 6:
I start with Top. He get's a flipped delver and a swing in before I can swords it. He plays another delver and it flips, I force something, don't recall what, and get attaked down to 5. Draw Terminus, drop CB, and a few turns later he concedes.
Out: 4 Force of Will, 1 Jace, 1 Oblivion Ring
In: 2 Spell Pierce, 2 Path to Exile, 2 Disenchant
Game 2 (D):
He has a very burn heavy hand and a couple Goblin Guides, We trade dudes and swords a couple times, and he bolts, spikes, chains, and PoPs me down to 1 life. Counterbalance resolves, and Colonnade gets the win.
Top 4 - Trevor with GW Maverick:
I've played against Trevor at the weekly events, and last Thursday in top 4 he steamrolled me. Dropped Teeg off a Cavern naming Kithkin with Counterspell, Jace and Elspeth in hand, and 2 Terminus on top. It hurt. I had spoken with him about how I wasn't really liking the factories as they made my mulligans crap, and he suggested I try a colonnade, that's why it's in the list, and only 2 factories (I personally think this is the right number).
Game 1 (P):
I swords a Hierarch or 2 and he stumbles on land. I entreat EOT for 3 and he scoops with no action left.
Out: 4 Force of Will, 3 Counterbalance
In: 2 Pithing Needle, 2 Disenchant, 2 Path to Exile, 1 Porphyry Nodes
Game 2 (D), I mull to 6:
There's no clock for T8 matches. That lead to one of the best games of magic I've ever played. This game alone was just short of 1.5 hours, very fun, and very intense.
The game starts with him a little light on land. But he gets 3 guys on board and I drop Porphyry Nodes. This clears most his men. Then around turn 5 or 6 he tries to choke me with a Thalia in play, I had been playing around this and disenchanted on end step with 2 plains and an untapped Island. I play Elspeth. He unfortunately lands a Sylvan Library and I don't have snapcaster for disenchant. I'm forced to Entreat for 1 to stop an exalted mindcensor from eliminating Elspeth. I Terminus at some point. He drops teeg, I drop a new snapcaster + swords on teeg (library gets to live, ughh). He trades dudes for more removal and eventually after 5 or 6 turns of an active library I draw a disenchant for it. He tries to choke me shortly thereafter, but I top into another snapcaster for disenchant. Long story short, I cast all 4 Terminus this game, as well as cast and flashed swords 5 or 6 times. All the while my Elspeth was ticking up. I had a needle on Knight since the early/mid game and held a second needle in hand for whatever might come. After a fresh terminus at one point he drops Thrun, I have a soldier token. I needle thrun, and cast Clique on attack step to double block. Eventually I ultimated Elspeth when she was on 10, and continued to build defense as his board would keep resetting and rebuilding. Finally I find and drop Jace when he has 0 in hand, and am forced to keep bottoming GSZs, but he doesn't draw real cards after. Factory and Colonnade keep getting in, but Maze of Ith stops the big damage and he has gained assloads from all my swords. Jace is on 11, and I'm threatening lethal attacks even through Maze and Trevor concedes. Obviously this little write up doesn't do it justice, but it was a fantastic game.
*An aside: Trevor's deck is fucking gorgeous; foil russian everywhere, and bb duals. He's probably posted it here but idk. Anyway, major kudos on the build.
Finals - Paulo with RUG:
Paulo was playing an esper list last Thursday and I hadn't seen him except at the player's meeting at the beginning of the tournament (seems proper that we start and end the day across from each other), so I put him on Esper blade.
Game 1 (D), I mull to 6:
He leads with Trop. The jig is up, I adjust my plans, but my hand is not as good against RUG. I lose when the goose gets loose.
Out: 4 Force of Will, 1 Jace, 1 Oblivion Ring
In: 2 Path to Exile, 2 Spell Pierce, 1 V. Clique, 1 Porphyry Nodes
Game 2(P):
I lead with top and he leads with delver. I Path the delver and feel the daggers when Paulo picks up his deck and finds a basic, laughing at my awe. He mentions something about his manabase and then drops a goose. Life from the Loam follows next turn. Fuck, I have basic island, karakas, tundra, factory. I cast CB, trade factory for goose, and he follows with Goyf for which I find no 2 drop. I swords EOT. He begins to waste lock me. He drops me to 10 life eventually and 1 island, I proceed to draw no more lands, but float a 1 and 2, and he's playing off the top. He concedes after I get another basic I believe.
Game 3(D):
I keep a hand with a top and multiple removal spells. I stave attack damage off for a couple turns, but proceed to find nothing with my top while he drops double goose and I extend the hand at 1 life.
Paulo offers me the byes anyway as he might not go, but I'm in the same boat and can't really afford to travel and enter only to scrub out. I also would have to miss classes and a test on the surrounding Friday-Monday I find out looking at my calendar.
But I can't complain about $250 for a relatively small event.
----------------------------------------------------------
* Don't play this deck with fewer than 4 Terminus
* Elspeth is awesome
* MD Clique was big, even though I didn't remember enough to detail it in the report often.
* I can see running only 1 entreat, but will probably keep battling with 2.
@Teknique
Awesome list and results man! How was Celestial Colonnade for you, as well as the 3-3 for Top-Counterbalance? In any case, I like this list...it's pretty much how the deck should be right now.
What's the general consensus on sideboarding for Maverick? Do you take out FOW or Counterbalance first?
@sarapfish
Thank you. To be honest I only saw the Colonnade 3 games the whole day, but it was excellent as it produced both UW (so mulling into it doesn't hurt, and CiP tapped shouldn't matter as turn 1 plays should actually be uncommon), and in the late game (which you will reach all of the time) it's near unstoppable.
This list can command the board for so long without seeing a Counterbalance that 4 seems like overkill. I'd rather be drawing absolute answers than the 4th. Until the meta is 50+% UR or RUG delver, I don't see a need for more. I've been running the 3-3 split since I started working on this deck a few weeks ago and haven't wanted to change that yet.
The deck is absolutely Tier 1 quality because of Terminus. It's the most insane card since Jace. You never feel bad casting it, and your opponent always looks miserable if you're playing it right.
I've considered dropping the ORing, but with the resurgence of reanimator I think I'll leave it in. On Saturday it was the worst card in the deck, never cast it once. If it was the answer I needed in almost any case, it would have been too slow. I run enough countermagic that nothing it's good on should even hit play (outside of reanimator).
Also, I'm considering replacing 1 or 2 Counterspells with Mana Leaks as sometimes mana can be an issue in counterwars. But, mana leak becomes significantly worse late game, which is where we always end up.
@Jimmy
Against Maverick, both FoW and CB should be coming out immediately. FoW is terrible, and any decent Maverick player can play around CB. Those slots should shift into definite creature, artifact, and enchantment removal if you want to win.
My biggest issue with the Colonnade is the comes into play tapped part. Tapping for both colors is obviously nice, but it's a very lategame clock, whereas Factory beats can sneak in while you keep mana up for Counterspell or whatever. Early game, when you're working on stabilizing, mana is crucial, and CiPT can be backbreaking.
I've ran with 4 Counterbalance for a long time, but it may be time for me to playtest with only 3. The only reason I'm considering this is because I want to fit a singleton Clique into my maindeck but there's nothing else I really want to cut from my maindeck for it.
However, I'd most definitely fit the 4th copy in the sideboard. Counterbalance is a necessity in quite a few matchups, especially your round 1 loss to burn.
I agree that Elspeth is awesome. She has great synergy with Terminus. My only beef is that she's grindy compared to Entreat, which can close the game out quickly once resolved. Even casting it for the same as Elspeth (2WW), that's a 3 turn clock. I like the idea of staying untapped for Counterspell, and then EOT tapping Top for Entreat (if Counterspell wasn't cast) and making 3-4 Angel's for a 1-2 turn clock that they weren't expecting. If the meta saturates with control mirrors, I'd probably find a way to fit Elspeth back into my list.
Oh, and congrats on your finish.
Nice report, thanks for sharing. I noticed you sided out all the FoW but only 1 jace vs RUG tempo. Obviously, both cards are pretty bad in this MU but personally I tend to side out all the jace before cutting in the FoW. 4 mana is just so much vs RUG tempo, and it seems impossible to resolve + untap with it. I'm also curious as to why you only side in 1 needle and no surgical vs sneak show. I think I'd rather have both these cards than terminus or even CB. Is there any consensus on sideboard strategies in these MU?
On other news, I've been having trouble with the esper blade MU. Discard helps in the control mirror, batterskull is a beast against us (dodges CB and terminus) and lingering souls is also surprisingly annoying (dodges CB, kills our planeswalkers, great with any piece of equipment). This MU is one of the main reasons I play 2 MD oblivion ring, and 3 SB disenchant, but it's not enough to turn the tide. Any ideas?