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Split the top 4 tonight at my local, 4-0-1 taking down UB Tezz, Grixis Tempo, TNN Bug, and Jund. I stepped away from Big Red for a bit to tinker with Dark Depths, but it feels good to Pacific Rim people again.
I'm still on the Sensei's Divining Top + Magma Jet plan for digging and I haven't been disappointed yet.
what about the matchup against dredge? What you side in?
Buddy made day 2 with the deck. Hopefully we get to see him play tomorrow.
I prefer Grafdigger's Cage, but Tormod's Crypt could be better. The only way they can stop you is to disrupt you with several Therapies and still they need to have a very fast hand. I think dredge is a favorable matchup, we just faster then them.Quote:
Originally Posted by glimpse70
How is he doing now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Well....A couple misplays and a little bad luck and I 3-3 dropped out of the GP. Sad Face. XDavisx made day 2 and I saw another guy I didn't know playing it as well, not sure how he finished up. I plan on putting this beast down for a little while. Good luck everyone, and hopefully this deck just keep getting stronger!
Apparently he last Minute audibled to shard lessQuote:
Originally Posted by -Spooky-
Back from holiday in DC, here is my deck list and notes on how it went over the course of the weekend. I've been running iterations of this deck since May and did some last minute testing before bringing the deck with me over the pond for GP DC. The only change I made just before the GP was to swap 2x Grafdigger's Cage for 2x Pyromancy. In the last series of tournaments there had been next to no graveyard based decks to warrant the slots, so I went for a backup strategy to cards like Surgical Extraction and Slaughter Games.
Main
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
1 Sandstone Needle
5 Mountain
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Worldspine Wurm
3 Emrakul the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand
3 Inferno Titan
4 Sneak Attack
4 Through the Breach
4 Blood Moon
4 Seething Song
2 Lotus Petal
3 Pyroclasm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard
3 Pyroblast
3 Defense Grid
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyromancy
1 Surgical Extraction
Results from GP and notes:
Round 1 - Unknown
Opponent failed to arrive before ten minutes were up. First win of the day...kind of!
Round 2 - Merfolk
Game 1 lasted all of turn 1 with a sneaked in Worldspine Wurm. A good win but bad for side boarding decisions. Decided to go off the number of cards I see my opponent sides in, and want to protect the strategy. In 3 Defense Grid, Out 1 Blood Moon, 2 Seething Song
After seeing the Merfolk deck in action and namely double TNN I board in 3 Pyroblast, 3 Chalice of the Void for 1 Defense Grid, 2 Seething Song, 3 Blood Moon.
Result 2-1
Overall 2-0
Need to dust off this deck, seems new lists shun lords for Thasa, TNN and Master of Waves.
Round 3 - Miracles
In 3 Defense Grid, 3 Pyroblast, 2 Pyromancy, 3 Ancient Grudge, Out 3 Inferno Titan, 3 Pyroclasm, 1 Blood Moon, 2 Seething Song, 1 Griselbrand, 1 Through the Breach.
Result 2-1
Overall 3-0
The game loss was driven by a severe lack of red mana.
Round 4 - Shardless Bant
I hadn't come across this deck before so wasn't sure how best to board after the first game.
In 3 Ancient Grudge, 3 Chalice of the Void, 1 Pyromany, 2 Defense Grid, Out 1 Sensei's Divining Top, 3 Griselbrand, 1 Through the Breach, 2 Seething Song, and 2 Blood Moon.
Lost the first game to mana screw again, a common theme I find for this build of Big Red.
Result 2-1
Overall 4-0
Round 5 - Maverick
Loss game 1 to Teeg beats, it happens. Game 2 started slow, and in the end the combination of damage from Ancient Tomb and little critters I see my first match loss of the GP.
In 3 Chalice of the Void, 2 Pyromancy, 3 Ancient Grudge, Out 2 Through the Breach, 3 Griselbrand, 1 Seething Song, 1 Blood Moon, and 1 Worldspine Wurm.
Result 0-2
Overall 4-1
Round 6 - Shardless BUG
This is my most heavily tested match-up, which once I realised I was facing it led to a small misplay that required a call for judge. Long story short, remember to announce the annihilation!!
In 3 Defense Grid, 3 Pyroblast, Out 2 Seething Song, 1 Inferno Titan, and 3 Griselbrand.
Result 2-0
Overall 5-1
Round 7 - Miracles
In 2 Ancient Grudge, 1 Pyromancy, 3 Chalice of the Void, 3 Defense Grid, Out 1 Through the Breach, 2 Seething Song, 3 Griselbrand, 2 Blood Moon, 1 Sensei's Divining Top
You would naturally assume that I would side the same as before in round 3, and I thought I had until I checked my notes again after the round finished.
Result 1-2
Overall 5-2
Now I'm on the bubble for getting into the second day.
Round 8 - Goblins
In 3 Ancient Grudge, 2 Pyromancy, 3 Chalice of the Void, Out 2 Griselbrand, 4 Blood Moon, 1 Seething Song, 1 Through the Breach
Result 2-1
Overall 6-2
Round 9 -Punishing Jund
In 1 Surgical Extraction, 2 Pyromancy, 3 Chalice of the Void, 2 Ancient Grudge, Out 1 Sneak Attack, 3 Griselbrand, 1 Seething Song, 1 Through the Breach, 1 Blood Moon, and 1 Lotus Petal.
Result 2-1
Overall 7-2 and through to day 2.
Props to my round 9 opponent for offering me a lift back to the Metro. Saved me having to scramble for a taxi late at night.
Round 10 - Sneak n Show
In 3 Pyroblast, 3 Defense Grid, Out 2 Pyroclasm, and 4 Blood Moon.
This got added to in the third game by 1 Surgical Extraction for the remaining Pyroclasm.
Result 1-2
Overall 7-3
Round 11 - ANT
In 3 Chalice of the Void, 1 Surgical Extraction, 3 Ancient Grudge, Out 3 Griselbrand, 1 Inferno Titan, 1 Pyroclasm and 2 Through the Breach.
Result 0-2
Overall 7-4
Lost to a turn 2 and then a turn 1 combo, can't really argue with those type of draws.
Round 12 - Sneak n Show
In 3 Chalice of the Void, 3 Pyroblast, 3 Defense Grid, 1 Surgical Extraction, Out 4 Blood Moon, 3 Pyroclasm, 2 Inferno Titan, and 1 Seething Song.
Result 1-2
Overall 7-5 drop
The second day came down to two realisations, firstly the current iteration of the deck has no way to directly interact with other combo decks. It is relying on disruption cards that will slow them down or protect our strategy. This leads onto the second point (more personal than anything relevant) for certain match ups aggressive mulliganing is a must. Despite my opponent getting the nut ANT draw for a T1 kill on the draw, I should've mulled into one of my disruption pieces. I keep underestimating this particular deck.
The Pyromacies are an open slot in the board that needs to be addressed, and to fix the red mana screw I may up the Sandstone Needle count.
Hi all,
I just picked up some Sneak Attacks to put this deck together and was wondering:
Has something like Ashen Rider not been discussed as a removal spell out of the board? It still does damage with Pyromancy, it combo's nicely with Sneak Attack, and is obv. good against Show and Tell. Maybe Chaos Warp is just better but I was just curious to see if anyone has tested the card out
I've considered cards like Ashen Rider. The exiling effect of rider is a plus, but I prefer my removal to work independently from my enablers.
Had a blast with the deck today. Went to top 4 a small LGS gig, lost to UWr delver and then Sneak and Show in the top 4.
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
2 Lotus Petal
3 Griselbrand
4 Worldspine Wurm
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Inferno Titan
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Blood Moon
4 Seething Song
4 Sneak Attack
4 Through the Breach
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
8 Mountain
3 Sandstone Needle
Side:
3 Defense Grid (FoW decks)
4 Grafdigger's Cage (GY decks, ANT, and elves)
2 Chaos Warp (Catch all removal, could be more specific like Ancient Grudge or something)
2 Pyromancy (Decks with Ensnaring Bridge)
2 Stronghold Gambit (mirror, creatureless combo)
2 Sudden Demise/Pyroclasm (aggro/tempo decks)
In total, I played against Mono G Elves, Elves with a splash, UWr Delver, Sneak and Show, and Shardless BUG. The decks with heavy counters were the trouble matchups, namely Delver and Sneak Attack. Delver has a bit of pressure and lots of counter magic, and Sneak and Show can just sit back, counter what you do then win on their next turn.
Comments about the main deck: Not enough red mana. I dunno if 19 lands are enough, I found out that one landers are nigh keepable. If only the sol lands produced red mana, this deck would be the heat.
Worldspine Wurm is the nuts. So is Inferno Titan in Legacy.
Blood Moons aren't as good in the deck. Thinking of cutting them for different prison cards or mana fixing.
Sudden Demise is good, but it doesn't hit Phyrexian Revoker. A fourth MD Titan might be the answer, as hard casting it isn't the hardest thing to do.
Zero card draw/manipulation is rough, the deck will poop out on itself. But the prison pieces are generally easy wins verses a lot of the field. Can't have it all.
Anyone else working on the deck?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDuke
Nicely done Duke!...IMO takes balls to run Big Red in a Big tourny (don't get me wrong great deck, but consistency can play a huge role from my experience)...
Couple thoughts from my experience thus far.....Chalice is a great combo hoser 'generally' for ANT/Tes- if you can put it 0, or 1...and even moreso on 2.
- how did pyroclasm in the main work, did you side it much?
I run Blood moon and Chalice main....Blood can be dead sometimes, but chalice always seems good.
In terms of Mana...I run 3 sandstorms, and only 2 Traitors, just so I make sure to hit Red(even at the cost of waiting the turn)....but generally I would agree, my deck kills me more than I get killed due to either finding the right pieces or not finding mana....I also run 3 Probes main (also a flex spot) just for cantrip and also to see what I'm playing against or to play around- they are generally sided out for game 2 or 3 depending on match up.
I like the include of Surgical...might have to try that one myself:)...I haven't had much luck with Pyromancy (I bring it in, but just rarely draw it to have an effect)...but Stronghold has been fun in the right match ups.
I have the pyroclasms in the main because they can give me the extra turn or two to go off against some of the big decks. They are an auto side out though against most control and combo decks. If the meta shifts to predominantly control deck in response to TNN, I might move the pyroclasms to the board.
The Blood Moons can win games and they do increase the number of spells in the deck that your opponent must counter. This in turn improves the percentages that you'll go off next turn with out interruption against decks only carrying a few counters.
Having said all that my current thinking is that unless you are playing the full set of prison cards it becomes a hit and miss situation. I am currently I favour of the SDT build because it does improve the consistency, but for this style of build I am not sure splashing prison cards is ultimately correct. I am going to do some testing with Flame Javelin, Magma Jet and Probe in the spot of the Blood Moons. Each card has a particular advantage.
Flame Javelin - playable off most combinations of lands we could produce and improves the spot removal (looking at you Batterskull).
Magma Jet - spot removal for problem cards (Teeg, Thalia) and works nicely with SDT to dig further.
Gitaxian Probe - Cantrip and provides important information for T1/T2 combo plays.
I've found that blood moons aren't as good as other prison pieces. They shut off your sol lands, and you can't have many MD without severly hendering your game plan.
Another question, is there thusfar a "perfect" or "best" mana base for the deck? I've also found that the deck is quite color hungry. I wish there was something better than Sandstone Needle, that'd smooth a lot of the problems out.
Registering this tomorrow for a yearly Legacy Open championship. This thread has grown cold, what is more fun than prison cards and Worldspine Worms?
[cards]
9 Mountain
2 City of Traitor
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Seething Song
2 Lotus Petal
4 Worldspine Worm
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand
3 Inferno Titan
4 Sneak Attack
4 Through the Breach
2 Pyromancy
1 Reforge the Soul
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
SB:
3 Pyroclasm
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Defense Grid
1 Stronghold Gambit
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Red Elemental Blast
Hoping to see nothing but green decks tomorrow. In any case it'll be a grand time!
This is my latest iteration of the deck. I've increased the land count to 20 with an extra Sandstone Needle, it seems to have removed any issues pertaining to getting my required red mana which means I'm only mulliganing due to the cut of spells. Other changes include moving Pyroclasm to the Board for Magma Jet in the Main. Trinisphere is in over the Blood Moon but only 3 so that I could fit in the 20th land. In the Board dropped the Surgical Extraction as a 1off it felt underwhelming and gone for a singleton Stronghold Gambit for some of the combo match ups.
Main
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Sandstone Needle
5 Mountain
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Worldspine Wurm
3 Emrakul the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand
3 Inferno Titan
4 Sneak Attack
4 Through the Breach
3 Trinisphere
4 Seething Song
2 Lotus Petal
3 Magma Jet
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard
3 Pyroblast
3 Defense Grid
3 Pyroclasm
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Stronghold Gambit
I'm undecided if I will take this to GP Paris, it will come down to getting testing done against the Patriot and ANT decks.
But Chalice is sooo good... I like the list a lot but wouldn't it be better just to sideboard your artifact prison cards and run three Faithless Looting instead, or two Looting and a miser Pyromancy?
3-1'd a small local last night. I had put the deck down for a bit, but I recently acquired Korean Sneak Attacks soooooooo I kinda had to play them.
R1) Team America 2-0
Blood Moon gets countered. Sneak into Emrakul & topdeck Emrakul.
Leyline into Blood Moon into Fallout. Scoops Haagen Dazs.
R2) Goblins 2-1
Cavern, Lackey, Warchief, Matron, Piledriver. Ok, you win.
I gave him wurms. Twice.
R3) Death and Taxes 0-2
I've played against my opponent several times, and the match is usually in my favor. This was a justice round for him. I stumbled on mana and was punished by Ports and Thalia.
R4) Merfolk 2-1
Defense Grid resolved. I gave him wurms. Twice.
4 Sneak Attack
4 Through the Breach
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Worldspine Wurm
2 Griselbrand
4 Seething Song
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Lotus Petal
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Magma Jet
4 Blood Moon
2 Defense Grid
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Sandstone Needle
2 City of Traitors
6 Fetchlands
3 Mountain
1 Karakas
Sideboard
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Chaos Warp
2 Pyroclasm
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Defense Grid
The maindeck has been the same for a while. I dig the flexibility of SDT + Magma Jet. They've won me plenty of games by hiding cards on top of the deck until needed. Chalice is strong, but my players in my area are quite fond of the card. So, either you're playing against it or clearly have a plan to ignore it.
The sideboard is always in flux. I hate Leylines, but I was playing in a new store and heard there were multiple burn decks in recent weeks. I was being greedy looking for easy wins. They were only relevant one round, and I was lucky to hit it plus a hand full of hate.
Do you guys board anything specific for OmniTell? I play Trinisphere main which is obviously good, and some Pyroblasts, Defense Grids and Stronghold Gambits in the board but still feel like it's a pretty bad matchup. Any advice?
Ashen Rider effects etc don't seem to get it done as the OmniTell player can often Cunning Wish for a Trickbind etc in response to the trigger...
Cheers,
Ben
4xtrinisphere and 4xcotv was always enough for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabs