Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DragoFireheart
Haven't you heard? The default color for cards being designed is blue. They have to remember to change the color when finishing the card.
It's like babies. Babies start out female-ish, and then a gene has to go off in order to turn Xs into Ys and make baby boys. Magic cards are probably exactly the same in development; everyone sits around casting every spell with Islands, until someone goes "guys I know this sucks, but we should *probably* make sure this ramp spell is Green" and everyone goes "UGH whatEVER"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JanoschEausH
Especially, because giving protection from something is inherently White's ability.
Apparently, buried deep within the archives of MTG articles, they decided years ago to make sure that "protection from [colors]" is White, but "protection from [other stuff]" is Blue. Players are definitely within the realm of "other stuff".
...
I hate this because it's easy to just say, "these are different abilities because they have different words in them, so they are not the same because they are different and you can't safely cast Starstorm when you control TNN, n00b rtfc". But the functional upshot is that 1v1 Magic basically lets protection from the opponent become the equivalent of protection from everything, which is better in all the ways that matter. I'm going to go way out on a limb -- so far that it almost reaches the thread for going out on a limb, but not quite -- and say that in a competitive situation no one has ever looked at their Progenitus and felt like it really needed to interact with Giant Growth effects, but since it doesn't it must be 'strictly worse' than some other giant protection creature.
To that end, I think that it's fair to say that "in all the ways that matter" protection from player just picks up protection from color by its dirty dollar-bin collar and kicks it in the penis. And it doesn't even feel it because it's got protection from the penis that player controls, so it's all like, "I could probs just kick ya in the penis all day, Mother of Runes."
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Dear all.
I was wrong.
I want to play 4 of this card in a BUG Deathrite with 4 thoughtseize shell. This card is insane.
Regards.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
I think the BoM+Eternal Weekend results might be too early to derive any conclusions about TNN's impact, people will have more time to acquire and test TNN lists until GP. Looking forward to that event.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Higgs
I think the BoM+Eternal Weekend results might be too early to derive any conclusions about TNN's impact, people will have more time to acquire and test TNN lists until GP. Looking forward to that event.
This
DRS didn't immediately take over the format, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TsumiBand
Apparently, buried deep within the archives of MTG articles, they decided years ago to make sure that "protection from [colors]" is White, but "protection from [other stuff]" is Blue. Players are definitely within the realm of "other stuff".
Except this is 100% bullshit from Maro. They can't even follow their own guidelines.
Fact is that before TNN, blue had three non-color protection cards in the entire history of MTG. Out of those, two are old as fuck.
White has six times as many cards in that category. Hell, Innistrad block alone had more cards in that category than blue in its entire history.
I call bullshit.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
This
DRS didn't immediately take over the format, too.
Except this is 100% bullshit from Maro. They can't even follow their own guidelines.
Fact is that before TNN, blue had three non-color protection cards in the entire history of MTG. Out of those, two are old as fuck.
White has six times as many cards in that category. Hell, Innistrad block alone had more cards in that category than blue in its entire history.
I call bullshit.
No I know, I completely agree. I was being an ass :D
I've read the article everyone has pointed to, and even if it's a Real Thing, there are problems in the new definition of "protection from things-besides-color" and issues resolving its execution against historical non-color protection. The game defines the scope of color explicitly, so "protection from colors" is explicitly defined. "Protection from other things" is so vast in scope that it may as well be a negative definition; it can be applied to just about any other in-game structure - from creature types to card types, and (apparently) players.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
The price for this guy is stupid. I did a call around this morning. Each store I called is selling the deck below the cost of buying a set of four on ebay and is getting the cards in today.
The guys price can not hold.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
The price for this guy is stupid. I did a call around this morning. Each store I called is selling the deck below the cost of buying a set of four on ebay and is getting the cards in today.
The guys price can not hold.
Are they doing the Jitte precon switcheroo?
Anecdotally, I've heard tell from store owners that "other store owners" were opening the BoK precon with Jitte in it, removing it, then selling it -- sometimes right in front of the client, because why not.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
No, these where not card shops but just common retailers. One said they had two on order, due in today, and two that they would have in for me by weeks end. The shop in question is a board games store that would have no idea what any of these cards are worth.
If I can call and have the deck ordered in, the price just can not hold.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
WOTC did say that print run will meet demand. So yeah. Theres that
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
supply always meet demand. the point is: at which price?
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TsumiBand
Are they doing the Jitte precon switcheroo?
Anecdotally, I've heard tell from store owners that "other store owners" were opening the BoK precon with Jitte in it, removing it, then selling it -- sometimes right in front of the client, because why not.
Imho it's a urban legend.
While I worked in a lgs, we were not allowed to buy the Rat Pack for purchase price. Store owners like their customers. They live from them.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
If TNN becomes a real threat, than I expect a resurgence of...
1) ...WBG decks:
- Thoughtseize doesn't care of Vial/Cavern, it just discards the card
- Dark Confidant brings cards
- Decay and Pulse destroy the equipments that make TNN powerful
- Swords clean the path for edicts
- KotR forces TNN to "maze mode" and/or finishes the game in few swings...
- ...moreover she brings Waste to cut the opponent of TNN's mana.
- so does Choke
- Liliana is a bitch
2) ...combo
Am I wrong?
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Don't forget UW miracles with Terminus.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
If TNN becomes a real threat, than I expect a resurgence of...
1) ...WBG decks:
- Thoughtseize doesn't care of Vial/Cavern, it just discards the card
- Dark Confidant brings cards
- Decay and Pulse destroy the equipments that make TNN powerful
- Swords clean the path for edicts
- KotR forces TNN to "maze mode" and/or finishes the game in few swings...
- ...moreover she brings Waste to cut the opponent of TNN's mana.
- so does Choke
- Liliana is a bitch
2) ...combo
Am I wrong?
1) BGx. (Shardless BUG, Jund, The Rock, etc)
2) Miracle Control.
3) Combo.
4) Merfolk.
So pretty damn close.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
I could see BUG delver making a resurgence too. They have a lot of tools to combat TNN. Discard, Waste + daze, FoW, Golgari charm, E. Plague, Edict, Liliana... Their threats also don't care about it for the most part (delver, DRS, Tombstalker/TNN)
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Imho it's a urban legend.
While I worked in a lgs, we were not allowed to buy the Rat Pack for purchase price. Store owners like their customers. They live from them.
As far as Rat's Nest goes all the rumors are true. Most stores sold it above retail, which I don't disagree with since Jitte alone was worth price of admission, but a lot of shadier stores just opened the precon and sold the Jitte.
The LGS game has changed a lot since then. You have to remember back in Kamigawa block the game still wasn't as popular as it is now and customers had a lot less options. A lot of stores that sold Magic cards were really more comic book stores, sports card stores, or general hobby stores that happened to sell cards, especially in smaller markets. There were no real big online places to buy cards except Ebay (which was a lot sketchier back then), I mean there were places but it's not like it is now. Prices were a lot less standardized and there was no one real established price ceiling (SCG pretty much fills these roles now). As a result there were a lot of shady dealers. Magic wasn't their first concern so they would gouge players all the time. Now Magic is a big enough game to almost support a store on it's own and online card sellers provide universal competition, so a lot of these shady places either went out of business or just got out of selling singles. I remember seeing crazy shit back in the day, if you ever see an old price guide check out the HIGH prices for Magic cards and those were pretty common. The common thread on these shady dealers was for some reason they all seemed to think Mystic Remora was some super rare card worth at minimum $20. I've seen Mystic Remora in a case for $300 before no bullshit. Luckily I lived in a pretty big market (Virginia Beach) so there were plenty of respectable dealers like Comic Kings or Atlantis, but there were also lots of shady fuckers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
This
DRS didn't immediately take over the format, too.
This is a double sided argument though. All cards in Legacy are prone to wax and wane and often a new card will see tons of play then drop off to a normal level after some time. Snapcaster is a great example. He's still a player for sure but doesn't see near the amount of play he did when he was new to the format. I expect TNN will play out similarly. It will see increased play over the next few months as people try to jam him into every deck under the sun then wane as people realize he doesn't fit in ALL those decks or that there may be better choices depending on the metagame for particular events. Remember when Snapcaster went into stock RUG lists? Also I feel like combo is such a big part of the metagame right now that it's going to put a damper on some of the TNN fun and games.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dontbiteitholmes
Snapcaster is a great example. He's still a player for sure but doesn't see near the amount of play he did when he was new to the format. I expect TNN will play out similarly. It will see increased play over the next few months as people try to jam him into every deck under the sun then wane as people realize he doesn't fit in ALL those decks or that there may be better choices depending on the metagame for particular events. Remember when Snapcaster went into stock RUG lists? Also I feel like combo is such a big part of the metagame right now that it's going to put a damper on some of the TNN fun and games.
TNN is a liability against combo (except for it being blue, increasing your blue count for Force of Will), but it's the best card against fair decks. In this way, TNN isn't like Snapcaster at all. Snapcaster was mere added value, not a game-wrecking bomb. Snapcaster's value shrank due to Rest in Peace and Deathrite Shaman. The Shaman eats the Snapcaster targets, and in some cases, people simply slotted the card in instead of Snapcaster and then changed a few other cards (usually squeezing in another color) to exploit Shaman. If WOTC comes up with more removal that answers TNN -- particularly uncounterable removal -- then I can see its presence waning, but it is literally the most ridiculous creature printed since Tarmogoyf, and due to availability issues, people haven't had many chances to get rolled by it yet. The crazy prices will hold until more supply reaches players.
