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Originally Posted by Kyle
So, while I really like siege rhino with the way the meta is shaping up to be, I'm not quite sure I like what he makes us do to the manabase. Specifically he makes the sol lands really clunky. Same thing with vindicate.
I'll try to run a third Mox and replace a Tomb with a Karakas. Between two Savannahs, Fetches, Karakas, DRS and 3 Moxen, there should be enough white to cover 2 KotR and 3 Rhinos since 9 white sources are required to run it smooth (probably less due to GSZ, but better be save than sorry). I'm not a fan of Vindicate in conjunction with Sol Lands, though. I'll probably think of a Gbw list later once I have the numbers down since I want to try out 4 Wastelands + 1 CoW for an additional lock angle.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankEGee88
Edit: Has anybody ever considered Abundance? Sure, it is expensive, so, I'm not sure if it's worth it, but can also help to generate card quality. Combine it with Library and you get a brutal draw engine of pure gas since replacing all draws with Abundance prevents putting the cards back on the library.
They haven't posted the daily events results from the dailies I have played this week but we 4-0'd an event every day of this week, the list we have been playing is David's list from the IQ -1 Thragtusk in the boad +1 Ooze. The games have also been very entertaining, if you like this deck of course :P here is a link of the recorded videos.
http://www.twitch.tv/romariovidal/pr...ast_broadcasts
Thanks for linking to the videos, I really wanted to see this deck in action.Quote:
Originally Posted by lilevo
How's the current online meta? Is it still as blue as before the bans?Quote:
Originally Posted by lilevo
If GY decks are such a problem, why don't we just run Rest in Peace in place of the Fairies/Traps? It only impacts us minimal (DRS, KotR, Titania) where you really want to bring them in while they're getting destroyed by it.
Edit: What's our plan against Shardless BUG? Mana denial is so-so since they pack both DRS and AD, they run Jace and Liliana, plus they bury you in card advantage.
Abundance has been discussed at the beginning even though I never actually tested it. I said that among all card advantage possibilities / combos with sylvan I could add to improve grindy or control match-ups it was the clear choice and that if someone proposes that kind of card it should be better than abundance. I specified that I didn't want to play it because it serves a purpose which isn't a real consideration for this deck. Your control match-ups are already extremely good without it so improving those with a 4 mana card that isn't great alone just isn't interesting. The sylvan/courser interaction is very different since it provides a blocker for agressive match-ups and courser is quite good alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Online meta seems about as blue as it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Once again it has been discussed in the thread. I went against rip because if the deck can reach two mana for it, that means I could land a chalice or teeg that does a lot versus storm or reanimator. So I want something that helps me save enough time to land chalice or another prison piece (trinisphere or GSZ at 2 are very good versus dredge also) that will very often win the game.
I didn't think about the shardless match-up at all since it wasn't a consideration in previous metagame. I don't think it will change the decklist, but since there should be a rise in these and BUG delver it's possible to test RIP for that matter. I'd need more test without it against those to find if it's needed.
Yesterday was the first time I played against Shardless BUG since the banning and also the first time playing Sylvan Plug I lost 2-1, I drew a grand total of 1 abrupt decay in all 3 games even with Sylvan Library and I lost to goyf. I think the MU is good like any other blue based deck DRS can be a pain since it makes some of our mana denial a little worse.
Anybody else got test results on Crucible of Worlds yet? So far, I like it alot to the point where I might add a second one. It's CA with fetchlands, enables further mana development and, most imporantly, the Wastelock is pretty silly in lots of match-ups, especially with Trinisphere.
Edit: After facing alot of BUG decks today which are back in force, DRS feels kinda subpar. Due the amount of enemy DRS you face, it more a glorified, starved Squire instead of the 1-mana pseudo Planeswalker powerhouse we know. But other options to replace him seem pretty meager, too.
Curious how you felt about a list like this with a little more of a white splash added in. Anafenza seems like a good greensun target against control decks and also graveyard decks like dredge/griselbrand decks, also prety cool you can start pumping up your dryad arbor out of nowhere. Joined this forum just to post an ask some opinions. Maybe even another Knight in the main would be goo here, I kind of want to drop the 2 rolling spoils for a crucible and another knight. Looking for some opinions on what people think about a list like this.
Edit: Also really curious how you feel about 1 tasigur in this deck. His ability seems really useful, sucks hes not gren for gsz but sttill seems like he has a spot in this deck.
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Siedge Rhino
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Swamp
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Mox Diamond
4 Trinisphere
2 Choke
3 Sylvan Library
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Rolling Spoil
Sideboard
1 Faerie Macabe
1 Giant Solifuge
1 Kalonian Hydra
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Spike Weaver
1 Stingerfling Spider
1 Thragtusk
1 Choke
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Massacre
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Tower of the Magistrate
2 Anafenza, The Foremost
I still like Crucible of Worlds as a 1off, it isn't needed every matchup but sometimes it feels really good to get some lands back or wasteland someone out of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
BUG on the rise:
Bad News: Decay; Gofy; Wastelands combined are good against Stompy Decks
Good News: This Stompy Decks run Baloth which works also nice against Hymn/Liliana
I wouldn't cut the 1off DRS, besides BUG he is still good and against BUG you can also prevent enemy Deathrite Action with Chalice&Co - sure they can sneak in 1cc Creatures before you can deploy Chalice&Co, but this deck also run some amount of removal (my version: 4 decay, 2 toxic, 1 garruk relentless main to fight them back)
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@Tasigur: I like him and try him in many different decks but haven't done a test with him in sylvan plug yet. He can't be tutored via Zenith and still is "only" a dump beater - but he can stop Gofy, dodges Decay (Deluge) - about Delve: the problem is, this deck can support him, but the yard will most of the time contain only lands or countered/destroyed permanents - removing lands will shrink Knights and affect Titania, Crucible - his ability isn't so good here because you opponent can give you some "situationally not needed" permanents etc. // Conclusion: Maybe he works in the BG Version, but with White you have more better options avaible anyway.
I like the match-up against BUG Delver - they're slower than UR Delver and give us enough time to establish our board. Shardless BUG is a whole different beast due to the CA they pack.Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
About Tasigur: Between Fetches, Moxes and Sol lands, we might be able to run him. His body is decent, he's another critter prove to Bolt and Decay and he adds something into his little package that we currently lack: Recursion. It might give us another nice angle for grinding out the opponent. But only testing can determine that.
I'm currently rocking the following list.
http://i.imgur.com/jdBIrsk.jpg
I added another two Karakas to the board since I loathe losing to Griselbrand. Didn't face any deck since the change, though. I'm also tempted to run 2-3 Rest in Peace just for the hell of it in the board, since we can just switch out our GY dependent threats against non-dependent ones from the SB. Seems way better than running all that clunky GY hate cards as bandaids. Question is what to cut for it. Ooze is tutorable, but rarely impressed me, especially as a GY hate card. I also question the use of Spiderfling Spider. It won't do jackshit against reanimation or Sneak Attack and Delver is less of a concern now witht he UR variant nerfed.
Another Deluge in the board would be nice, too.
I didn't see this question until now, faerie doesn't get countered and works around trinisphere, also this additions might be David overreacting to losing twice to dredge (his only two losses) at the IQ :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
We made two modifications in the board -1 massacre +1 go for the throat, the reason for this swap is because we have seen more Goyfs being played and less D & T. In the main deck we -1 Courser for +1 Eternal Witness, so far it's been good, at first I was a little skeptical about e witness but in a deck playing 4 GSZ I think it's fine to play so many 1 of's green creatures.
How do you feel about Anafenza in this spot? as I posted in my list a few spots up I felt like maining a Karakas and some more white sources and siding in 2 Anafenza against the grave matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Tripple color seems pretty taxing both in color and mana cost if you ask me, even if it's GSZable. I would rather try to have RiP online on T2 (or maybe even T1 with Mox).Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewimperial
I would ralso prefer RiP to blank Goyf and DRS while I bash in their head with Hydra and Baloths. Still finding the slots to fit it in is going to be a bitch.
Edit: I just noticed the interaction between Weaver and Anafenza. Not as good as Hydra, but still interesting.
@lilevo: Especially with CoW in the MD, I could see cutting a Courser for Witness, even though the double life gain and having a back-up is nice. CoW and Courser kinda compete in the "generate CA via land drops" slot.
Edit #2: Screw it, I'm going in deep:
-1 Bojuka Bog
-1 Ooze
-1 Trinsphere
-1 Choke
-1 Spider
+2 Enlightened Tutor
+2 Rest in Peace
+1 Oblivion Ring
Let's see how that goes.
First match was against Dredge. :laugh: He lost terribly twice due to Rest in Peace. Felt especially good after he wasted two Nature's Claim in G2 on irrelevant junk because he never saw it coming. I might have to make slight adjustments for the increased white account post-boarding, but additional Karakas should already help with that.
I'm aware that Tutor + CotV @1 is a nonbo, but it might be worth the risk. Between multiple Karakas + KotRs to fetch them + E-Tutor for O-Ring, we might stand a better chance against all those annoying, flying fatties.
The spike weaver interaction is actually pretty cute lol.
I still feel one of anafenza might be useful. You just GSZ her out and it should be a huge surprise factor. She to some extent functions as a containment priest would without shutting your plays. I can see how drawing her in your opening hand she might seem rough to cast.
I'm putting my version of the deck together in real life today for play testing. Still kind of want to add a tasigur.
Why would you play Anafenza when Scavenging Ooze exists?Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewimperial
Played a few more games today. First impression of me is that O-Ring is pretty good.
Finished the deck today and was play testing. Rolling spoil felt particularly bad, even in the match ups i thought it would be good in. Knight at two was amazing, also felt like i wanted a GSZ target that was 2cmc a lot so if their is something good in the mainboard slot maybe i should add that, just not sure what card yet.
Gonna be fun testing some more.
Glad to read that you like the double-knight idea (sadly decays are back after tc ban), for GSZ with 2cmc i always used a Scavenging Ooze and Qasali Pridgemage, because both worked good with Zenith + Trinisphere (or Ancient Tomb + Green Land etc.). Ooze is still very useable to fight graveyard strategies, deathrites, gofys etc and Pridemage can also be a better or spend exalted if you attack with a Baloth against the common 4/5 Gofy etc, or trick someone with eot fetch for arbor and than play pridemage and attack for 2 (i killed jace this way back in the days i played elves with a white splash).Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewimperial
After the TC ban i spended my time to play and improve my other decks, but i still watch over the discussion here, because decks that try to fight the overall blue legacy meta.
I run two Knights as well and I'm quite satisfied with it. It provides good utility and is decent beater. Two let's you draw it more often naturally (which isn't a bad thing) and it gives you a back-up when they can remove it.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewimperial
Rolling Spoil was cute tech, but with DRS and Goyf in the picture instead of hordes of URX's X/1 hordes, I would rather have Toxic Deluge as reliable sweeper instead of gimmicky LD. So I'm running 2 Deluge in the MD now and like it alot.
This deck also placed in a daily recently. I'm not entirely sold on completely removing MD Chokes for the online meta since it's still 79% blue decks despite the TC ban (budget reasons to due Wasteland's price maybe? :eyebrow: ). The list also ran MD Deluges, 2 KotRs and a CoW, which I agree with. Running Siege Rhinos is debatable.