[Deck] Goyf Sligh

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Originally Posted by Pinder

Actually, run Firespout. Sure, it might not always hit every creature like Pyroclasm, but roughly 90% of the time you're only aiming for the ground anyway, and the odds that you'll even be able to spend only :r: or :g: on it are pretty small (in strict terms, they're your odds of playing it for :g::g::g: or :r::r::r:). For all intents and purposes, this is an infinitely more castable Flamebreak. And the possibility of playing it for :g::g::g: to take out just fliers so your ground pounders can clean up the floor is sort of appealing, too.

Although I suppose it doesn't hit players. But you have enough ways to deal your opponent damage, no?

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Okay, this point is actually valid. Flamebreak was a stretch, but thrown in because it will hit the opponent. Usually this spot is Pyroclasm for me, because it costs 2. But the points about Black being unnecessary remain.


@Jak: It's been on my list for testing, but I'm unsure if he'll make the final cut yet. Beats in for two but he has a tendency of tying up mana in a fairly low curve, land light deck. Testing will tell, as per usual, but I'm honestly on the fence as of yet.

By tying up mana you mean allowing you to actually cast spells that Chalice & Counterbalance had previous made completely unuseable? Explain to me how that is bad, exactly? Cuz if he's not doing that, how is he tying up mana?

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Originally Posted by scrumdogg

By tying up mana you mean allowing you to actually cast spells that Chalice & Counterbalance had previous made completely unuseable? Explain to me how that is bad, exactly? Cuz if he's not doing that, how is he tying up mana?

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100% agreed. He is just a main deckable answer to the cards that hold this deck back. He happens to deal damage while allowing burn and more creatures to get through the wall.

Well, it's akin to Sphere of Resistancing yourself. You can play through it with minor annoyance, though I'd rather have a real answer to CB that actually gets rid of it instead, like Grip. I'm not saying that it isn't a powerful effect, if you can keep him alive, but the difference between casting 2-3 burn spells a turn and being able to cast 1 uncounterable one is pretty significant.

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100% agreed. He is just a main deckable answer to the cards that hold this deck back. He happens to deal damage while allowing burn and more creatures to get through the wall.

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Again, I revert to the "it's a strong effect but the cost is heavy"... It may very well be worth that cost, but I'd rather permanently get rid of the Counterbalance as opposed to trying to force one, maybe two if you're lucky, through CB and then watch them remove the shusher and you're stuck sitting infront of the wall again. Also, granted it's relevent to the build that We've been running, Chalice has not been the issue that CB has. In most situations, I'd rather Grip the CB than play the shusher. But I don't actually have them to test it, and I don't trust people on MWS for actual testing.

Also, Maindeck him over what? Most builds run 3-4 Grim, 4 Mogg, 4 Keldon Marauder, 4 Tarmogoyf and then a bunch of burn... What are you going to replace?

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Originally Posted by CorruptedAngel

Well, it's akin to Sphere of Resistancing yourself. You can play through it with minor annoyance, though I'd rather have a real answer to CB that actually gets rid of it instead, like Grip. I'm not saying that it isn't a powerful effect, if you can keep him alive, but the difference between casting 2-3 burn spells a turn and being able to cast 1 uncounterable one is pretty significant.

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Look at it this way.


THey get their turn 2 Counter Top out. You smile, lay down a turn 2 Shusher. They Ponder and dig for an answer. You attack for two and then cast incinerate. They drop Goyf. You keep buring through and dropping guys. They have no way to stop this unless they Plow him, but then that keeps your Gofs on the board and allows them to do work. Krosan Grip gets rid of CB, but does nothing to stop them from countering that Price of Progress or Fireblast and then they just keep your Goyfs off the table.

This deck is aggressive and Shusher allows it to play that way. Still keep Grip in the side, but having that answer MD means that game one is extremely winnable.

Edit- He only is a mana sink when you need him to be. Yu would be twiddling your thumbs if he wasn't there. I think testing should be done because I have no idea how he would fit because I don't play this deck. I am just saying that a deck that loses to Chalice and CB should play this card. It is perfect for this deck.

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Originally Posted by CorruptedAngel

Well, it's akin to Sphere of Resistancing yourself. You can play through it with minor annoyance, though I'd rather have a real answer to CB that actually gets rid of it instead, like Grip. I'm not saying that it isn't a powerful effect, if you can keep him alive, but the difference between casting 2-3 burn spells a turn and being able to cast 1 uncounterable one is pretty significant.

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Again, I revert to the "it's a strong effect but the cost is heavy"... It may very well be worth that cost, but I'd rather permanently get rid of the Counterbalance as opposed to trying to force one, maybe two if you're lucky, through CB and then watch them remove the shusher and you're stuck sitting infront of the wall again. Also, granted it's relevent to the build that We've been running, Chalice has not been the issue that CB has. In most situations, I'd rather Grip the CB than play the shusher. But I don't actually have them to test it, and I don't trust people on MWS for actual testing.

Also, Maindeck him over what? Most builds run 3-4 Grim, 4 Mogg, 4 Keldon Marauder, 4 Tarmogoyf and then a bunch of burn... What are you going to replace?

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You only have to use his cost when needed...and they need both Top & Counterbalance to make you sink mana in. Otherwise an EOT test spell will reveal what their top card cc is & allow you to play accordingly. Quite frankly, even with Counter-Top down, you both invest mana but in a complete reversal of fortune, now YOU are the one actually getting action out of the exchange. Grip is still a fine SB option, and tasty in addition to the Shusher, but you get Shusher Game 1 - which is like cheating (an activity Randy Buehler has confined almost solely to the color blue and the mechanic storm until now...). As for what to replace, that is much more difficult & would probably depend on what you expect in your meta. In one a-swarm with Thresh & Landstill, Mogg can be replaced easiest I believe. Heavy Goblins & other aggro-ish decks? At this point it could stay in the SB for the control matchups you might face. In a combo meta...why are you playing Goyf Sligh?

It's on the docket of things to test, and probably will get tested by one of us at Hadley. I'm probably the most skeptical of him on the team, but I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if he strongly turns the tables on some of the weaker match ups. I just can't rely on MWS testing and it isn't as if Team Albany gets together to play every week like we used to.

Hello I recently played this deck at my local tourny (33 people).Ended up losing 1st round of the top 8, but anyway my list:

4x Kird Ape
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Mogg Fanatic
4x Keldon Marauders
4X Tarmogoyf

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Rift Bolt
4xMagma Jet
3xFire Blast
2x Price of Progress

8x Fetches
4xTaiga
1x Forest
6x Mountian

SB:
4x Tormod's Crypt
4x Krosan Grip
2x Price of Progress
3x P. Pilliar
2x Pyroclasm

The only problem I had was that kird ape never did anything, what would you advise for this build instead of the monkey? More burn? A Three Drop?(Crusher or Burning Tree) Also I wouldn't mind knowing the SB plan you guys use, Thanks in Advance.

I feel like you need to fit some Shushers in here. Let's try -4 Kird Ape +2 Price of Progress +1 Fireblast +1 Shusher for the main.

Then -1 Krosan Grip, -1 Tormod's Crypt, -3 Pyrostatic Pilar, -2 Pyroclasm, +4 Chalice of the Void, +3 Shusher.

Unless you don't have to worry about Counterbalance Thresh, then I'd add another random Burn Spell (or man that can eat artifacts such as Hearth Kami) over the MB'd Susher, and 3 more metagame slots in the board. What do you see in tournaments?

I had actually been thinking about take out the pillers for Shushers, as for the meta you never really know Painter's Grindstone(all in Thresh shells) was big yesterday, a couple loam, goblins, burn and enchantress decks ,somtimes a belcher and then some random Homebrew decks.

Out of idle curiosity, why don't more people use Rancor? I've been running it in my RG stompy deck and it's fucking nuts. It makes just about anything a threat and in the deck three posts above would solve your 'Kird Ape does nothing' problem.

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Originally Posted by raharu

Out of idle curiosity, why don't more people use Rancor? I've been running it in my RG stompy deck and it's fucking nuts. It makes just about anything a threat and in the deck three posts above would solve your 'Kird Ape does nothing' problem.

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Potential card disadvantage, which is fatal in relevant matchups.

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Originally Posted by lonelybaritone

I feel like you need to fit some Shushers in here. Let's try -4 Kird Ape +2 Price of Progress +1 Fireblast +1 Shusher for the main.

Then -1 Krosan Grip, -1 Tormod's Crypt, -3 Pyrostatic Pilar, -2 Pyroclasm, +4 Chalice of the Void, +3 Shusher.

Unless you don't have to worry about Counterbalance Thresh, then I'd add another random Burn Spell (or man that can eat artifacts such as Hearth Kami) over the MB'd Susher, and 3 more metagame slots in the board. What do you see in tournaments?

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While I can see going to 4 Price in the main, particularly in some environments, I really can't recommend 4 Fireblasts though. With a 19 land manabase, you really can't afford to be over-aggressive with your mountains and that leaves dead cards in your hand. We don't like dead cards. Maybbe instead, -4 Kird, +2 PoP +2 Shusher, or +1 PoP +3 Shusher. Either way you wanna roll on that regard.

Maybe this is just my metagame speaking through me, so I'll ask it in a more general form to the lists OP: Do you really see much TES/FT in your metagame? If not, then Chalice can be something else as it's never really going to help you. You can't reliably set it on anything other than 0 or 1 and 1 hurts you, badly. Vs. Belcher it helps a bit, but (maybe this is personal preference) I know that combo is a race even with Chalice on hte table, so I'd rather bite the bullet and take my matchloss against the random 1 or 2 combo decks that show in the meta I play at, and save those board slots for something else.

I'm not sure if this was addressed to me, but I see hardly any combo thats not belcher(one person runs SI) and I tend to think the same as you.

"I'd rather bite the bullet and take my matchloss against the random 1 or 2 combo decks that show in the meta I play at, and save those board slots for something else"

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Originally Posted by Thor

I'm not sure if this was addressed to me, but I see hardly any combo thats not belcher(one person runs SI) and I tend to think the same as you.

"I'd rather bite the bullet and take my matchloss against the random 1 or 2 combo decks that show in the meta I play at, and save those board slots for something else"

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Indeed.

Is Browbeat an option at all?

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Originally Posted by F3d3x

Is Browbeat an option at all?

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No - never. Especially against our greatest enemy - Chalice, Trini, and CounterBalance. Against those cards, you'll be paying 3 mana to draw three spells that you can't cast.

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Originally Posted by F3d3x

Is Browbeat an option at all?

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Why would you play a situational three mana sorcery that will never finish off a game?

Has anyone tried a board like this?

4 Chaice of the Void
4 Pyroclasm
4 Krosan Grip
3 Shattering Spree

With 4 Shushers main.

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Originally Posted by Jak.

Has anyone tried a board like this?

4 Chaice of the Void
4 Pyroclasm
4 Krosan Grip
3 Shattering Spree

With 4 Shushers main.

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If you can find room for the 4 Shushers that'd be great. My deck is a bit tight, I've been trying to squeeze em in but I've been unable to acutally find room for all 4 without removing utility needed for the meta that I'm playing in...The board looks good except for the Chalices.. Is Chalice necessary? It's only really useful against Storm Combo and even then it's an uphill battle (though not unwinnable.) I don't like Chalice in this decks board at all. But that's my opinion.