The thing was, most Elves players here had an Emrakul in their 75, so I dunno if it's any different now but most do run NoPro as well.
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The thing was, most Elves players here had an Emrakul in their 75, so I dunno if it's any different now but most do run NoPro as well.
The current lists I know of and have played against are 0 Emrakul and 1 Progen in the board. Even in game 2 you can easily mill them out... just takes 1 extra turn to live through, but they'll have 0 cards in their library so they have to have lethal on board.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
My Cut would be the 2nd Revoker and move it to sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Sirocco was an interesting choice but proved lack luster. It was fun to watch some opponents discard their whole hand though
I'd stick with the mill plan if I knew they'd run only proggy and not emrakul.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish
So fun Blood-mooning 3 color decks on turn 1. Really happy with Imperial Painter, and I feel that it's a very good deck currently.
Agreed, it's one of the reasons I play it.
merry Christmas to everyone!
Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays to all celebrating today!
Yeah, blood moon is really strong right now. I felt it was losing some power a few months ago, but people went right back to being greedy. Eats the TNN decks alive.
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4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
1 Great Furnace
4 Scalding Tarn
6 Mountain
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Figure of Destiny
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3 Goblin Welder
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Blood Moon
2 Lotus Petal
4 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Faithless Looting
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
SB:
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Shattering Spree
What do you guys think? I'm trying to focus on a more solid welder/aggro plan, with more equipment and creatures. Also, on another note, are there any Painter players in the SoCal/West Coast area?
Consider your bad matchups here, how at they improved by leaning on welder to cheat equipment into pay or going the aggro path? Show ant will walk all over you, you can't play the control well in aggro matchups. You're missing out on two very strong cards right now; blood moon and ensnaring bridge. For mono red, [I think] 5 moons aren't optimal. MD bridges will grant you more game one wins than turning dudes sideways. Don't take my advice, test it out fire yourself.
@jandax
You think mono red should be running more that 5 moons MB? Right now I'm at 4/1 but always liked 4/2. But with jamming so many MB bridges I had to make cuts.
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Six is a great number (4 moon/2nite of course) and I wouldn't fault anyone for running 7, while 8 takes up slots for important things like MD bridges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish
Rw can get away with 5 because they have tutors and recruiters.
Hello all, first post in this thread. Been playing Imperial Painter for about a year now.
I've really been enjoying the discussion you guys are having here. The white splash discussion in particular I found really "Enlightening" :tongue:
I have a couple of things I'd like to ask about... I'll post my list for reference.
x4 Imperial Recruiter
x4 Simian Spirit Guide
x4 Painter's Servant
x3 Magus of the Moon
x2 Goblin Welder
x1 Stingscourger
x1 Phyrexian Revoker
x1 Bloodfire Dwarf
x2 Chrome Mox
x2 Lion's Eye Diamond
x2 Sensei's Divining Top
x3 Pyroblast
x3 Red Elemental Blast
x4 Grindstone
x4 Blood Moon
x4 City of Traitors
x4 Ancient Tomb
x2 Great Furnace
x2 Scalding Tarn
x2 Wooded Foothills
x2 Cavern of Souls
x4 Mountain
SB
x1 Magus of the Moon
x1 Pyroblast
x1 Red Elemental Blast
x2 Ashen Rider
x2 Faerie Macabre
x4 Thorn of Amethyst
x4 Ensnaring Bridge
Ok so you will notice there 2-3 abnormal choices.
I used to play Martyr of Ashes in the past but I have found I like Bloodfire Dwarf more against Elves, that one extra mana really matters sometimes. Especially if you had to Recruiter for it and you need to play and activate in the same turn. I also like that I don't have to give away information off the Dwarf.
A friend of mine suggested Cavern when I was figuring out a list for this deck. I've had it be both insane and I've also had it get Wastelanded. That's the biggest liability of running Cavern of Souls is that it can get wasted. Sometimes you could get jammed up and not be able to cast Blasts off Cavern, but that has not been a big issue for me. The upside is that both Magus of the Moon and Imperial Recruiter are humans so you can push them through countermagic. My thinking is that Cavern of Souls makes one of our biggest threats (Moons) uncounterable. It can also be used to name Scarecrow if needed! Sometimes I wonder if Cavern is just winmoar though? I have pushed through early Magus's when my opponent later showed me they did have Force, though...
The other big thing is that I am playing Lion's Eye Diamond. The downside is that it can be dead late game. That is why I have only ever run 2, although 1 might be even better. I have tried to look back in this thread for some discussion on the subject but much of it was from a long time ago. The upside to the LED is that it allows for way more turn 2 and even turn 1 wins. I worry though that I am making the deck worse by only playing 2 Tops sometimes... LED's are basically taking up that 1 other slot for the 3rd SDT. Anyone here ever play Lion's Eye Diamond in this deck?
Any feedback is appreciated, thanks guys
Welcome to the discussion!
First off, that is one abnormal list indeed. In an attempt to understand it better, could you explain your Meta and provide some sideboarding strategery?
I'll wait on that before chiming in!
hello comrades! This is the latest list for Soviet Control I have been running:
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
8 Mountains
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Goblin Welder
1 flex tutor spot (usually a 2nd magus, spellskitte, 2nd welder, or something spicy)
4 Painter Servant
3 Ensaring Bridge
4 Lighting Bolt
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sensei's Diving Top
4 Grindstone
Board:
4 Thorn of Amethyst (F you combo)
2 Ratchet Bomb (DnT, Elves, Goblins, Miracles [angel tokens and counterbalance])
2 Red Elemental Blast (Delver decks, miracles, and Show n' Tell.dec)
3 Pithing Needle ( Deathrite.dec, elves, Vial Decks [Merfolk, DnT, and Goblins], combo, and control)
3 pyroclasm (aggro decks)
1 Manic Vandal (boom artifacts)
How many moon effects/bridges do you think I should include in the main for it to be effective?Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Is there anything in particular that stands out as especially strange or bad? (Don't worry you won't hurt my feelings :laugh:)Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
If I'm being completely honest I don't really have a defined meta to play in. My area is pretty low key for legacy action. Some of the decks I see when I do get to play are most Delver decks (RUG, BUG, RWU) some Blade decks (U/W, Esper) and then a good amount of Elves!, some burn and one guy who always plays 43 lands. There is very little combo where I play, it's usually me playing the combo decks.
As far as sideboarding I generally just shave stuff to jam what I need in any particular MU. Very rarely will I straight up cut whole sets of stuff. Against Storm based combo I would bring in basically everything except Ensnaring Bridge and Ashen Rider. I would cut Chrome Moxes, LEDs, my 1 off tutor targets and shave a few other slots. Against Show and Tell based combo I would bring the Ashen Riders and Blasts. Against most non-Delver creature decks I bring in Ensnaring Bridges.
I don't really get to play enough to have good answers about how I would sideboard. I hope I can still get some feedback or advice without knowing these things, sorry!
Six, maybe seven, and eight is too much. I've found six to be an ideal number. It let's you naturally see one at a decent rate but.frees up a slot or two for other things do you don't have to run 7 or 8Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperial
Sweet meta for iPainter!Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_L
Burn and elves are tough, but the rest is cake or at least I'd be happy to be in that field of decks. I posted my list a few pages back, go have a look and note the differences. Since the room for innovation is so tight in our 75, I rhino that every painter player decided to fill those previous negotiable slots with stuff they feel is necessary.
My only critique would be that four(!) Artifact mana sources are also sources of card disadvantage. I dropped moxen from my list ages ago, and have never run LED
Finished 5th yesterday in Hanau, Germany. About 50 players, cut to top 8.
My decklist:
Team N!īs "judged by"
// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
6 [RAV] Mountain (1)
4 [MR] Great Furnace
// Creatures
4 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
1 [UL] Goblin Welder
2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
1 [TSP] Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
// Spells
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [DK] Blood Moon
3 [U] Red Elemental Blast
4 [IA] Pyroblast
4 [TE] Grindstone
3 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 [REL] Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 [IA] Pyroclasm
Pyroclasm should have been sudden demises, but my order did not arrive soon enough.
No draw, no library manipulation, no burn. Just get first turn moon, empty your hand, lay back behind your ensnaring bridges and a lot of one mana, instant vindicates. I know itīs risky, but hey, all in and win. I play this deck since years, and this is the version I like the most at the moment.
After six round of swiss, I was first, won the first four rounds against deathblade, bw, blade controll and 12 post. Went awesome 8-0, not losing a single game! Lucky me! The next two rounds I was able to ID, so I went 4-0-2 and first.
Top 8 I was paired againt uwr delver, and the tide turned, we had two very strange games, I had the total board controll with moon and ensnaring bridge out, he has no chance to remove these two, but died both games to grim lavamancer and bolts, lol. But all in all a very funny day, seeing a lost of faces from the past ( I quit playing a lot of tournament magic years ago), funny games and two revised plateaus as the price.
That list don't afraid of nothin'
Respect and congrats!
Thanks! Funny thing: I won only an single game with painter+grindstone, rest of the games with simple beatdown...:tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Congrats man! Yeah, I'm thinking of taking something like this to a tournament Thursday. My local legacy scenes been growing, so it's time to bust out the BMoons!Quote:
Originally Posted by slayjay
Amended my list, mainly because I don't have the guts to play a 61 card deck...
9 Mountain
4 Red Fetchlands
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Recruiter
4 Painter
4 SSG
4 Grindstone
4 Blood Moon
6 Blasts (2 REB/4 Pyro)
3 Top
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Goblin Welder
1 Jaya Ballard
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Lotus Petal
SB:
4 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Sudden Demise
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Manic Vandal
1 Martyr of Ashes
From the last list I moved the two Sudden Demise to the SB to make room for the Lotus Petal I shaved (mistake), the Goblin Welder (Want 2), and swapped out a City for a Mountain.
I shaved a Revoker from the side for a Martyr of Ashes, but like the Bloodfire Dwarf idea from Will_L. My main concern is that it's double Red to fire off, and because I just shaved a Sol land for a basic mountain, it should speak to how the deck can lock itself out of appropriate mana in the long run. Other than that, the sideboard is pretty much what it was the last time around. I'm prepared for my bad matchups; Show and Tell/Emrakul decks, Elves, Burn, graveyard decks, and am ready to squash the rest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
I like this list a lot! In your games, was your deck fast enough without mox and only 7 sol lands?
I'm not geared for fast. That's more all in where this is more controlling. The thing about moxen, they're card disadvantage where Lotus Petal is the free mana you need to accelerate. In the Painter spectrum, I prefer to be more stable than all-in. I've played both styles and this suits me more.Quote:
Originally Posted by slayjay
Regarding the 8th Sol Land, it could still be in there. I just haven't played enough games paying attention to the mana base to know whether the 9th mountain or 8th Sol land is justified. Splitting hairs I'm sure.
@Jandax: I play the same md but -1lotus petal +1city of traitors. If you play petal,wouldn't it be better to play the 8th sol first. I'd play the petal over a mountain first. Although I think it's better to just play 21lands instead then. You're sideboard looks pretty good! Have u got to test the cages yet ? I had extra blast/x instead ,but having some general gy hate is absolutely better in bigger tournaments.
I'm back and forth on the 8th sol/9th mountain thing...
Regarding Cages, I think they're the tits. They neuter Elves' engines (GSZ, Fetch> Dryad, NatOrder), they deal with Dredge/Reanimator/Tinfins for :1: I'd just assume to run four instead of a split between Cages and Crypts. For what it's worth, Cages deal with corner case decks we see here in NL like Zombardment and Cephalid Breakfast and the like. I don't ever want to lose to jank.dec, no matter how much cool and awesome they are.
I think I won't be trail blazing and just play the ol' 8/4/8 mana base. 21 lands is just too much for my taste, might even shave another Mountain for a petal, going down to 19 lands. Gotta put the testing time in to observe averages though, again it's probably splitting hairs.
I'm personally a fan of the panglacial wurm splash hate cage provides
English is my native language and I don't even
Wow, looks like we're getting a little more popular. Imperial Painter now makes up almost 10% of the mtgo legacy metagame.
That's because online Imp costs 2 bucks. Us offline players...
Hey Imperial, as a Tinfins player, how would you go about beating Tinfins with iPainter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperial
Just curious
Hi, I just built the deck, and I don't know how does this deck deal with decks with Emrakul.
I have seen lists in this thread that aren't running Crypt or Relic to answer the trigger.
Do we beat them by attacking with creatures? Seems like an imposible matchup.
Ensnaring Bridge. That's how we beat them. Then you can Painter/Jaya them out, or Koth of the Hammer ultimate, or chain Recruiters and go beat down. The thing with using crypts and relics to react to triggers on the stack, it turns into a three card combo. That's clunky and they can just kill you in the mean time. It's way better to sit behind a Bridge that they rarely can deal with and build up an alternative combo, the aforementioned are what I use, to close things out. Impossible it is not, it's actually pretty linear.
It's a rough one. G1 is pretty much an auto-loss, as Tin-Fins has the potential to win T1/2 quite easily. I'm not sure what the full statistics are, but a T1 kill is garunteed 16% of the time, while T2 is 60%. With that in mind, we do run Emrakul main, so the combo is essentially nullified. Main-board Bridge and Moon do help a lot, but we do run Petals and the occasional Chrome Mox, which do help a bit against all the moon effects. Post board is better, as you have access to GY hate, and Thorns. So, G1 be prepared to lose, but an early Moon/Bridge can steal games. G2 is obviously more in your favor. G3, it all boils down to who goes first. Hope this helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Bridges really hurt tin fins. However... I discovered this line of play in a tournament.
The emrakul can be your friend! I established a turn 2 combo kill but knew he was on tin fins (game 2)... Game one I combined off whilst him having drawn the emrakul lol! Anyway... The tin fins player tried to recur griselbrand, so in response I milled him. Emrakul triggers... Blam empty yard. Continue beatdown.
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This is a line of play I can get behind. I've used Revoker on Griselbrand before, where that just bought me a couple turns before I got beat down. After sideboarding, what would you all bring in? Thorns, extra revokers, extra bridges, GY hate? Seems like there's a lot one could bring in, but what would go out? As mentioned, an early Moon is probably good but only hampering their game plan, it's no lock because they run basics and Petals. Blast effects I'd leave in, or at least shave some REBs to make room. The GS part of the combo could just come out to make room for a more prison/control deck. I dunno. My strategy is to just forego the PS/GS combo and work on sticking a prison piece then get in there with dorks or PS/Jaya.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish
Koth is good in the matchups where you are hiding behind a Bridge, just like Jaya. Jaya is not a bad strategy but you need to have lot of blasts when trying to resolve it as if it's countered or killed, the game pace goes glacial. That's why I find it nice to have one or two extra bombs that can passively kill the opponent under bridge, through any defense. If there's something else besides Koth and Jaya that could do the work, please share. Or should one just put an extra Jaya to sideboard?
Bridge by itself isn't hard for Tin Fins to deal with, assuming that they are running Tendrils. All Bridge prevents is an extra draw 7, and Tin Fins can usually win off of 14 cards. Now, if you have Revoker on Griselbrand and Bridge out, then you're pretty golden, and continue with the Jaya plan.
/edit:
Also, this is sweet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish
Bringing in Thorns, Bridges, and GY hate should do the trick.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Took IP to my first Legacy tournament today-
Round 1-Joe with Miracles 1-2
G1. Long drawn out game, but I eventually get there with Blood Moon and dorks.
G2. He kills me without too much effort using Clique. Blasts were nowhere to be found.
G3. I lose with 1 minute left on the timer.
Round 2-Dan with UW Vial-bears 2-0
G1. Jaya is good against Blue, drew the combo naturally.
G2. Beat-down with dorks.
Round 3-Connor with Stoneblade 2-1
G1. He kills me with Batterskull.
G2. I topdeck painter with Stone and a bunch of lands on the field, and it's off to Game 3.
G3. Blood Moon T2 against his 2 Tundra hand is good.
Thought I did alright for my first legacy tourney. Joe Cisneros, my 1st round opponent, is pretty well known around the SoCal area, and it a really nice guy. There were a few BUG players in the room, but I sadly didn't get the pleasure of playing against any of them. Overall good turnout, and a nice variety of decks. Some guy with Aluren even snuck in. :eek: