[Deck]BUx Reanimator

There are a lot of DnT players in my meta and every single one of them has said that Tidespout Tyrant is the bane of their existence, if you get a D7 into a TT, they have almost no chance of winning, if they don't have swords for the tyrant, they just lose, and you can force swords if they do have it.

Animate dead has been great for me, being a target for abrupt decay is hardly ever relevant, if its on a griselbrand, you've drawn 7 so the damage is done, similarly with elesh, since their creatures are likely dead. As far as tidespout goes, you can actually save the animate dead as was discussed earlier. If the creature is Iona, you likely named black against the deck anyways.

I don't know what it is, but I've never really had trouble with DnT even though it seems to be considered one of our worst matchups.

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Originally Posted by Stryfo

There are a lot of DnT players in my meta and every single one of them has said that Tidespout Tyrant is the bane of their existence, if you get a D7 into a TT, they have almost no chance of winning, if they don't have swords for the tyrant, they just lose, and you can force swords if they do have it.

Animate dead has been great for me, being a target for abrupt decay is hardly ever relevant, if its on a griselbrand, you've drawn 7 so the damage is done, similarly with elesh, since their creatures are likely dead. As far as tidespout goes, you can actually save the animate dead as was discussed earlier. If the creature is Iona, you likely named black against the deck anyways.

I don't know what it is, but I've never really had trouble with DnT even though it seems to be considered one of our worst matchups.

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I think as long as you play around Karakas and Swords, the matchup vs. D&T should be fine. It can suck game 1 if you don't know what you're up against, and, say, blow your combo on Griselbrand only to pick it back up with Karakas, but that seems to be it. With Tidespout and Ashen Rider both being viable ways to kill your opponent dead, I don't see the issue. Post board, they have access to maybe meekstone, but again, Ashen Rider / Tidespout is just unstoppable in this spot, and Needle can often be GG for Karakas. Thalia can be a pain, but you should be playing your petals out prematurely vs. the deck anyhow, to avoid her being an issue, and you really only end up maybe a turn later than desired because of her. They can't play multiple thalias, and if they're porting you on turn 2 it means they aren't doing something more hateful.

That being said, I haven't really played reanimator, but I'm super interested in the deck and it's the next one I intend to finish.

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Originally Posted by Stryfo

There are a lot of DnT players in my meta and every single one of them has said that Tidespout Tyrant is the bane of their existence, if you get a D7 into a TT, they have almost no chance of winning, if they don't have swords for the tyrant, they just lose, and you can force swords if they do have it.

Animate dead has been great for me, being a target for abrupt decay is hardly ever relevant, if its on a griselbrand, you've drawn 7 so the damage is done, similarly with elesh, since their creatures are likely dead. As far as tidespout goes, you can actually save the animate dead as was discussed earlier. If the creature is Iona, you likely named black against the deck anyways.

I don't know what it is, but I've never really had trouble with DnT even though it seems to be considered one of our worst matchups.

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I envy you so much. The DnT players are what stopping me from hitting the weekly top 4's. I might have to modify my decklist but the MD Empyrial Archangel is a house against burn and makes the DnT players groan.

So Containment Priest is a thing now. The fact that it has flash is so annoying. lol

What does this mean for Reanimator? It kind of makes me want to run the full set of Thoughtseize to make sure the coast is clear before reanimating. It also warrants another Massacre, I think.

At least it doesn't shut off Show and Tell if it is put in simultaneously with a creature.

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Originally Posted by Darksteel

At least it doesn't shut off Show and Tell if it is put in simultaneously with a creature.

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Yeah, but any smart person would cast that creature in response to SnT. Then put batterskull into play off SnT. Whoooraayy DnT!

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Originally Posted by Darksteel

So Containment Priest is a thing now. The fact that it has flash is so annoying. lol

What does this mean for Reanimator? It kind of makes me want to run the full set of Thoughtseize to make sure the coast is clear before reanimating. It also warrants another Massacre, I think.

At least it doesn't shut off Show and Tell if it is put in simultaneously with a creature.

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Means the abrupt decay package likely becomes a little more appealing if it isn't already standard =P Massacres work too.

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Originally Posted by Darksteel

So Containment Priest is a thing now. The fact that it has flash is so annoying. lol

What does this mean for Reanimator? It kind of makes me want to run the full set of Thoughtseize to make sure the coast is clear before reanimating. It also warrants another Massacre, I think.

At least it doesn't shut off Show and Tell if it is put in simultaneously with a creature.

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Means I'm going full play set on main Thoughtseize and side Decay, up from 3 each. I have a single Massacre in the side, will probably go up to 2 if this becomes a thing. I'm going to wait and see how much this is a thing before committing that much sideboard to it. If people just replace their RiP with this guy, then it's not that much different from what we deal with already. If it's side by side, then it's time to adjust.

D&T and Miracles are already tricky match ups anyway. If you godhand them in the first 2 turns, you get there pretty easy if you know what you're doing. But if you misstep or are a turn too slow, Thalia + Rip + SotL + Mindcensor just pile on and then you're dead. Same story with CounterTop plus mana. This is just one more card in a long string of cards we're already adapted too.

This does hurt Dredge and Sneak&Show in ways they aren't used to however, if they start to falter I'd be curious to see what the main crowd starts building sideboards against in that absence.

Abrupt decay looking pretty good now huh?

Anyway, i think that while this card is a real pain in the ass, it only solidifies where the the sideboard wants to be for future events and the gp. While i think that massacre is awesome, i might want another instant speed kill spell that is relatively cheap such as disfigure or muderous cut. I suppose that if mother of runes is active then they will be detrimental compared to massacre, but the applications in other mashups i believe is more important. Disfigure is good against the infinite delver decks, kills deathrite, and is very good v elves. I think that we probably want something like 4 decay and 2 disfigure in the slot that would usually house massacre or a bounce spell. I know for one, that if i am going to continue playing this deck, that i won't feel comfortable in the death and taxes matchup without at least 6 explicit answers to the card hitting the table.

Anyway, what do you guys think, how are you planning on dealing with this card. Do you think Miracles will play it? if so, is there a card better than disfigure for that matchup?

Jake

I don't think this will be as big as it is being made out to be.

The card does very little against the best decks in the format (Delver, Miracles, Storm, fair decks, etc.), and also has some very real anti-synergy with the deck itself. It's just another card that we can both counter easily and go under. What cards will DnT cut from a standard 75 to play this guy? How many can they feasibly play? It's not some kind of four-of all star like Thalia, it's effect is just not good against too many decks.

It is possible that a different deck comes to the floor that could play this card, but there aren't a huge number of decks that can really abuse this card (none come to mind).

Edit: Furthermore, we aren't considered to be one of their problem matchups, neither is Sneak and Show, what problem does this new card solve for them?

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Originally Posted by Gilderbarin216

Abrupt decay looking pretty good now huh?

Anyway, i think that while this card is a real pain in the ass, it only solidifies where the the sideboard wants to be for future events and the gp. While i think that massacre is awesome, i might want another instant speed kill spell that is relatively cheap such as disfigure or muderous cut. I suppose that if mother of runes is active then they will be detrimental compared to massacre, but the applications in other mashups i believe is more important. Disfigure is good against the infinite delver decks, kills deathrite, and is very good v elves. I think that we probably want something like 4 decay and 2 disfigure in the slot that would usually house massacre or a bounce spell. I know for one, that if i am going to continue playing this deck, that i won't feel comfortable in the death and taxes matchup without at least 6 explicit answers to the card hitting the table.

Anyway, what do you guys think, how are you planning on dealing with this card. Do you think Miracles will play it? if so, is there a card better than disfigure for that matchup?

Jake

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...Chain of Vapor? It also answers Leyline, Relic, Crypt, Ooze, etc. I'd much rather them have this than RiP in Miracles, also the 4 Karakas deck really needs more answers to Griselbrand?

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Originally Posted by Mhenlo

...Chain of Vapor? It also answers Leyline, Relic, Crypt, Ooze, etc. I'd much rather them have this than RiP in Miracles, also the 4 Karakas deck really needs more answers to Griselbrand?

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They typically only play 3 karakas, and yeah priest is good in a lot of places that aren't specifically reanimator. Dredge, show and tell, a bunch of fringe strategies that create some guys, the card is pretty versatile. While it probably won't see more play than a lot of cards in that slot i.e.. spirit of the lab and all of the other two drops, it will be a presence on the board of these decks. Chain is fine, but again I don't know if i want a bounce spell that isn't specifically great. I think that the deck is generally powerful enough that we no longer really need a blanket answer. I think that we want something that is insane in matchups where we really need hate. Disfigure/ massacre i think does what we want, where we want it. And yeah, I'm not particularly afraid of this card in any matchup that doesn't have vial.

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Originally Posted by Gilderbarin216

They typically only play 3 karakas, and yeah priest is good in a lot of places that aren't specifically reanimator. Dredge, show and tell, a bunch of fringe strategies that create some guys, the card is pretty versatile. While it probably won't see more play than a lot of cards in that slot i.e.. spirit of the lab and all of the other two drops, it will be a presence on the board of these decks. Chain is fine, but again I don't know if i want a bounce spell that isn't specifically great. I think that the deck is generally powerful enough that we no longer really need a blanket answer. I think that we want something that is insane in matchups where we really need hate. Disfigure/ massacre i think does what we want, where we want it. And yeah, I'm not particularly afraid of this card in any matchup that doesn't have vial.

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Card is not versatile it is narrow, it dos literally nothing in so many match ups. Thalia and Teeg are versatile, this is more like Cannonist except against Griselbrand decks where they don't really need the help, and playing around it is just playing around yet another hate bear.

With flash. For one white. That is literally impossible to play around without a thoughtsieze effect at many points in the game. Imagine a scenario where your opponent has a vial on two, a cavern on human or just multiple things to deal with. This card is very scary, and yes, is definitely versatile. Go back to casting tendrils friend. :)

RIP is still so much worse for us because it blows away any investment still left in the graveyard. It also cuts a much much much broader swath through the metagame. RIP doesn't need to bash for 2 or be cast EoT to lose us the game in a lot of spots. Abrupt Decay can be too little too late when your best play means you just have to go for it and hope they don't have it.

Interestingly I've played multiple tournaments and not faced 1 D&T yet, but I'm pretty sure it's a bad matchup at the end of the day for us. You can't board out all the legendary or farm-worthy creatures against Karakas/Swords, you can't really afford to fight over Aether Vial, you can't do anything about Cavern of Souls. Another hatebear added to the mix doesn't seem that intimidating to me. Still dies to Massacre, still gets Thoughtseized, still gets Abrupt Decayed, still gets Forced or Dazed without a Vial/Cavern. That's all without changing a card in the various 75's people tend to play.

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Originally Posted by Gilderbarin216

They typically only play 3 karakas, and yeah priest is good in a lot of places that aren't specifically reanimator. Dredge, show and tell, a bunch of fringe strategies that create some guys, the card is pretty versatile. While it probably won't see more play than a lot of cards in that slot i.e.. spirit of the lab and all of the other two drops, it will be a presence on the board of these decks. Chain is fine, but again I don't know if i want a bounce spell that isn't specifically great. I think that the deck is generally powerful enough that we no longer really need a blanket answer. I think that we want something that is insane in matchups where we really need hate. Disfigure/ massacre i think does what we want, where we want it. And yeah, I'm not particularly afraid of this card in any matchup that doesn't have vial.

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If you were to play Disfigure would you side it in against UR Delver to slow down their clock? It hits Delver, Pyromancer and can hit Swift Spear.

If I went the U/G/B route for abrupt decay what would the manabase be like?

I currently use

2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea

My idea based on what I got:

2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bayou
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea

Maybe because I'm paranoid, I'm sorta tempted to put a basic forest in to make myself wasteland proof.

The threat of Containment Priest doesn't come from its perpetuity, it's from its natural reactionary play style. It's not so much a Rest in Peace is it is a Surgical Extraction, flashed in response to our Reanimate. Once out, it's no more threatening that Grafdigger's Cage, which only shuts off our finisher, but doesn't limit the set up. We're free to Careful Study into Containment Priest, EOT Abrupt Decay and then flash that golden Exhume.

For those preparing their sideboards for D&T, I'd be wary of targeted removal like Disfigure. Decay gets countered by game state with an active mom out, Disfigure and Crippling Fatigue fare no better. Massacre is the better card but much more narrow, offering no help in the Viking Funeral or other Delver lists.

For those running the BUg lists, have you considered a copy of Engineered Explosives as a global check all? When I ran straight UB, I had a copy of Ratchet Bomb, typically to blow at 0 against Delver and Dredge, but sometimes brought it in against Elves, D&T and even Miracles with moderate success. If the future of the deck is 3 colors, EE could provide better coverage than most bounce spells if we pack Abrupt Decay alongside.

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Originally Posted by Nuke is Good

If I went the U/G/B route for abrupt decay what would the manabase be like?

I currently use

2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea

My idea based on what I got:

2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea

Maybe because I'm paranoid, I'm sorta tempted to put a basic forest in to make myself wasteland proof.

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You list Polluted Delta twice there. Also when discussing manabase, you should also list how many Petals you're running, since that's also critical in consistently casting Abrupt Decay.
Right now I'm
4 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp (for art reasons)
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Lotus Petal

If you're light on Petals then a Forest wouldn't be out of line, but I think that would be abundantly cautious. As long as you're fetching properly, losing both your green sources to Wasteland is unlikely.

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Originally Posted by Gilderbarin216

With flash. For one white. That is literally impossible to play around without a thoughtsieze effect at many points in the game. Imagine a scenario where your opponent has a vial on two, a cavern on human or just multiple things to deal with. This card is very scary, and yes, is definitely versatile. Go back to casting tendrils friend. :)

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Thoughtseize won't play around this guy, they can just cast it in response and make us deal with it on board. And it is EXTREMELY narrow, in that all of the decks it's any good against bar elves (Dredge, Reanimator, SnS), are already good matchups for DnT. It doesn't solve anything other than those matchups, which don't need solving, and they already have more versatile tools for winning those matchups and those tools don't interact poorly with vial. If this guy was their absolute best tool against elves, then I can see it getting a few slots, since that's a nightmare matchup for DnT. But elves isn't as scared of this card as we are, since they can still just cast glimpse and win the game, there are better options for that matchup.

@PirateKing, because of how reactionary the card appears, I think it will be easier to beat. I would argue that it is frequently correct to just cast it on turn two, but it becomes much easier to combo + counter on our turn 2 if they try to play it on our turn rather than theirs, and most people will be trying to get us rather than slow us down, which is all DnT really needs against us, some setup time.

Still @Pirateking, I've been using EE in 2 color lists to great effect, all of the important hate occurs on one or two anyways, so going to three colors doesn't change much.

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Originally Posted by PirateKing

You list Polluted Delta twice there. Also when discussing manabase, you should also list how many Petals you're running, since that's also critical in consistently casting Abrupt Decay.
Right now I'm
4 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp (for art reasons)
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Lotus Petal

If you're light on Petals then a Forest wouldn't be out of line, but I think that would be abundantly cautious. As long as you're fetching properly, losing both your green sources to Wasteland is unlikely.

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Sorry had a brainfart while typing. 2 Scalding Tarns instead of the 2nd duplicate. I'm running a 2-2 Split of Petals and Daze's, I'm thinking of using more petals though now. I'd have to switch my Bloodstained Mires to Verdant Catacombs to justify the singleton forest but, it's all just theory at this point.

I don't like basic Forest if you're not maindecking Abrupt Decay. I used to sideboard a Forest for the Blood Moon matchups until eventually conceding it wasn't worth the slot. It's essentially colorless mana in a land-light U/B-heavy deck.

In fighting Wasteland you should win 9/10 times by just not fetching a green source until you need one. You need at most three or four green mana in any given game (unless you're boarding in other spice besides Abrupts), and two sources will likely be enough in most games.

I play Rituals over Petals and have never had any issues with the splash (running 4 Delta/2 Misty/2 Verdant/1 Trop/1 Bayou).

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Originally Posted by DoorDie

I don't like basic Forest if you're not maindecking Abrupt Decay. I used to sideboard a Forest for the Blood Moon matchups until eventually conceding it wasn't worth the slot. It's essentially colorless mana in a land-light U/B-heavy deck.

In fighting Wasteland you should win 9/10 times by just not fetching a green source until you need one. You need at most three or four green mana in any given game (unless you're boarding in other spice besides Abrupts), and two sources will likely be enough in most games.

I play Rituals over Petals and have never had any issues with the splash (running 4 Delta/2 Misty/2 Verdant/1 Trop/1 Bayou).

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I'm so used to midrange strategies that I always considered basics in my deck. How do rituals play differently for you instead of petals?




Also for people that run 3x Griselbrand in their list. Do you miss the 4th one at all? I thought about cutting one just to shove an animate dead in there.

Ratchet bomb seems like a really nice answer to containment priest. Since it works even if they flash it in, can't be stopped by MOM and has utility if they don't draw Priest. Better than EE because it doesn't take mana the turn you go off.

Only concern is that those decks play revoker. But can't have everything.

I also like that Ratchet gives us a random out to leylines/humility. Really clever!

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Originally Posted by Nuke is Good

I'm so used to midrange strategies that I always considered basics in my deck. How do rituals play differently for you instead of petals?

Also for people that run 3x Griselbrand in their list. Do you miss the 4th one at all? I thought about cutting one just to shove an animate dead in there.

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I run 3, can't tell the difference and haven't looked back. We still have 7 Griselbrands, and shaving one physical copy makes space for an additional silver bullet, making both Entomb and Griselbrand's draw 7 stronger. I like Sphinx of the Steel Wind as a hedge against U/R Delver.

I prefer Dark Ritual over Lotus Petal because it's a stronger raw accelerant (2 mana over 1, basically halfway between Lotus Petal and Black Lotus). It powers out the Entomb combos, resulting in better nut draws because T1 Entomb -> Exhume is now feasible. Same goes for cantripping into the combo and going off the same turn; Dark Ritual moves the combo turn forward more often.

The difference in U/B Reanimator is straightforward to show mathematically. With 0 untapped lands only Lotus Petal can combo but only in multiples which is unlikely and therefore irrelevant. On 2+ untapped lands both can accelerate every combination (unless you have exactly only basic Island + Trop or basic Swamp + Bayou, which is unlikely, but then Ritual is worse). So assume 1 untapped land. Then Petal can cast every enabler (Entomb, Careful Study, Hapless Researcher, Thoughtseize) but only one reanimation spell (Reanimate). Additionally all of the enablers besides Entomb are 3-card combos since you must have a fatty in hand or lucksack into one. On one land (an untapped Swamp), Dark Ritual can cast two enablers (Entomb, Thoughtseize) and all the reanimation spells (Reanimate, Exhume, Animate Dead), and additionally they are all 2-card combos except for Thoughtseize. So Ritual overpowers Petal when you are on one untapped land, either turn 1 or Brainstorm into the combo on turn 2, etc.

The whole point of acceleration is to bust out your combo in the same turn, so accelerating Brainstorms and Ponders doesn't appeal to me. Petal plays better around soft countermagic, but I am generally happy trading off a Ritual for a Daze or Pierce. I cut accelerants when I bring in interaction like Abrupt Decay because the games will tend to drag out and invalidate fast mana.

If you run the full 4x Ritual then hardcasting Griselbrand becomes an out in long games, but I've cut down to 2x since it has a more diminished return in this deck than Petal in multiples.

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Originally Posted by toor

Ratchet bomb seems like a really nice answer to containment priest. Since it works even if they flash it in, can't be stopped by MOM and has utility if they don't draw Priest. Better than EE because it doesn't take mana the turn you go off.

Only concern is that those decks play revoker. But can't have everything.

I also like that Ratchet gives us a random out to leylines/humility. Really clever!

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Ratchet Bomb is good if you anticipate X= 0 or 1
Engineered Explosives is good if you anticipate X = 2 or 3

I ran mine for tokens & flipped delvers and Deathrite Shaman mostly, so it made sense. If I expect to go up against 2s like RiP or Thalia then I's run EE.

Artifact (4)
4 Lotus Petal

Blue (19)
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
2 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
2 Show and Tell
1 Tidespout Titan

Black (19)
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
1 Grave Titan
3 Griselbrand
4 Reanimate
3 Thoughtseize

Multicolor (1)
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

White (2)
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Lands (15)
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea

Sideboard (15)
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Ashen Rider
2 City of Traitors
1 Echoing Truth
2 Massacre
3 Pithing Needle
2 Show and Tell

This is what I been testing having cut 1 Island and 1 Swamp for Bayou and Tropical Island and cutting 2 Engineered Explosives and a Flustersorm from the board for 3 Abrupt Decay.
Sphinx is for the RU Delver match up. They can sometimes race a griselbrand especially if you reanimated it. Not so with Sphinx of the Steel Wind.
Grave Titan has been my goto creature for Liliana decks for awhile although it is really embarassing vs Elephant Grass.
Considering the 4th Decay but not sure what to remove from the board maybe the 3rd needle but needle is important for Karakas and planeswalkers like Liliana and Jace. Not sure I like Decay better then explosives since Decay can not remove multiple threats but it being an instant is nice. Its nice to be able to kill things like Liliana without a Lotus Petal and 2 turns.
Also considering adding Engineered Explosives back since I did like it as a catch all and it got rid of multiple Rest in Peace or Deathrite Shaman.


I am not actually sure we are going to see that many Containment Priests. What exactly does Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Jeskai Delver cut from its board for Containment Priest? They typically have 2 Rest in Peace and 1 Grafdigger's Cage for anti graveyard hate. Death and Taxes is already a bad match up with 3 main deck Karakas and Swords to Plowshares.

@Pirateking
I always prefered Engineered Explosives to Rachet Bomb. Rachet Bomb took to long to Rachet up if you wanted to kill things that cost 2 or 3. like Rest in peace or Ensnaring Bridge.

Been thinking about it recently. With the amount of UR delver, Burn and Elves that i'm expecting at the GP, i think I'm going to move the iona to the main and sire to the board. Sire is still very important in a variety of matchups where iona doesn't do everything you want. Against storm, miracles, a bunch of midrange decks and omni tell, Sire is still very good. With that in mind, i think that i want a 5th discard spell in the main. Ive found that therapy is lackluster in a strategy where you can beat every piece of permission, just not in abundance. Thats why i want another targeted discard spell, and i think that duress is the best for the job. Discard spells are much more powerful against the delver decks than counterspells because they are better suited to fight you, have red blast, and have a variety of spells to play around. Knowing what to fight when is really crucial.

So, in order to piece another card in the main i have cut an underground sea
Mana base now looks like

4 polluted delta
2 verdant catacombs
1 misty rainforest

3 underground sea
1 tropical island
1 bayou
1 island
1 swamp

3 petal.

What do we think about running 17 sources in a field of dazes? Should i shave a daze of my own? It makes delver matchups better to shave a daze for a land, but with that we lose a little potency of grislebrand, and also some action with regards to deathrite. Any input on where we want to be mana-source wise?

Thanks
Jake

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Originally Posted by Gilderbarin216

Been thinking about it recently. With the amount of UR delver, Burn and Elves that i'm expecting at the GP, i think I'm going to move the iona to the main and sire to the board. Sire is still very important in a variety of matchups where iona doesn't do everything you want. Against storm, miracles, a bunch of midrange decks and omni tell, Sire is still very good. With that in mind, i think that i want a 5th discard spell in the main. Ive found that therapy is lackluster in a strategy where you can beat every piece of permission, just not in abundance. Thats why i want another targeted discard spell, and i think that duress is the best for the job. Discard spells are much more powerful against the delver decks than counterspells because they are better suited to fight you, have red blast, and have a variety of spells to play around. Knowing what to fight when is really crucial.

So, in order to piece another card in the main i have cut an underground sea
Mana base now looks like

4 polluted delta
2 verdant catacombs
1 misty rainforest

3 underground sea
1 tropical island
1 bayou
1 island
1 swamp

3 petal.

What do we think about running 17 sources in a field of dazes? Should i shave a daze of my own? It makes delver matchups better to shave a daze for a land, but with that we lose a little potency of grislebrand, and also some action with regards to deathrite. Any input on where we want to be mana-source wise?

Thanks
Jake

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I really think you want 14 lands and 4 lotus petals, or 15 lands and 3 lotus petals, especially if you are running the green splash. I think that 14-3 will only work consistently in the UB list.

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Originally Posted by Gilderbarin216

What do we think about running 17 sources in a field of dazes? Should i shave a daze of my own? It makes delver matchups better to shave a daze for a land, but with that we lose a little potency of grislebrand, and also some action with regards to deathrite. Any input on where we want to be mana-source wise?

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It's a hairline cut so we're not talking major percentage points here. You're a tad worse versus Wasteland which doesn't seem as prevalent right now.

Personally I'm a fan of shaving a Daze for the Duress and shaving a Petal for a land to convert it to a permanent mana source, so you'll have a 15-3 mana source division and a full 12x disruption package. Discard costs mana which slows us down, so anytime you have double or triple discard draw, you're likely headed to T3 and beyond before comboing where the acceleration becomes less relevant. A lot of builds run less than the full 12 disruption spells and just rely on extra combo pieces to push through countermagic.

I agree. I see it like this:

Lotus Petal and Daze are fast cards, and their relevancy is when turn 1 & 2 reanimations are your goal. If that's how you read your meta and wish to play the deck, 4 of each gets you that.
Ponder and Thoughtseize (or Duress for 5-8) are long cards, you want them when you're comfortable going off turn 3 & 4 because you know the coast is clear and you're under minimal pressure.

For both lists, I think 18 is the ideal number of mana producing permanents. You shouldn't need to go less than this unless you're attempting to double dip on the cards above.

For those with the high-speed low0drag Dark Ritual build, god only knows. You're braver than I.

I'm currently playing this list:

4 underground sea
1 swamp
1 island
4 polluted delta
2 misty rainforest
2 verdant catacombs
4 lotus petal

4 griselbrand
1 sphynx of the steel wind
1 elesh norn
1 ashen rider

4 brainstorm
3 ponder
4 careful study
4 fow
4 daze
4 entomb
4 reanimate
4 exhume
2 thoughtseize
2 show and tell

I already tried to run the "petalless" version, but lotus petal is so GREAT in this deck that I just can't leave home without 4 petals in my MD. It speeds up the clock kill in 1 turn, witch is all I need to include it. I'm not using the green splash version, because it plays less fetchlands and petals.
I'm not sure if reanimator is a good choice for the current meta, full of shamans, karakas (and the new priest..) and the sideboard plan is definately the key to get this archetype to the success

I agree that sideboarding in this deck is key, but that also means not over-boarding. As far as being unable to deal with DRS, I easily won 3/4 of my games last week (actual fraction), on the draw, against a turn 1 resolved DRS. I also don't play petals, so it's not like I just went off on turn one, and I don't play SnT, so I had to use the yard. It's not that hard to play around, really. Karakas though is a bit tougher, but really if you draw 7 even if they drop karakas, you aren't in the worst shape.

http://mtgdecks.net/decks/view/96808

Couldn't help but notice and wonder about this list, what's the strategy for sideboarding in such a list?

I would suppose against white decks and anyone with Leyline of the Void you'd cut the Imps and Animate Dead's, and probably shave on Careful Study's and Exhumes or somesuch to bring in the Painter/Grindstone/City package. It's sort of like Show and Tell but with an instant win attached since Reanimator can have great difficulty in closing games out against Swords to Plowshares decks. Obviously you can also Entomb->Reanimate the Painter as one of the combo pieces, though I'm not sure you'd really want to do that over Griselbrand, possibly against Ensnaring Bridge.

I do like that it shows how flexible Reanimator can be besides just the stock U/B build.

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Originally Posted by Stryfo

I agree that sideboarding in this deck is key, but that also means not over-boarding. As far as being unable to deal with DRS, I easily won 3/4 of my games last week (actual fraction), on the draw, against a turn 1 resolved DRS. I also don't play petals, so it's not like I just went off on turn one, and I don't play SnT, so I had to use the yard. It's not that hard to play around, really. Karakas though is a bit tougher, but really if you draw 7 even if they drop karakas, you aren't in the worst shape.

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It is pretty hard! Got to either have like Exhume and a way of dumping two fatties in one turn! Or two reanimates and two fatties! OR just hope they don't know what you are on! It can be done but it is a headache and you feel like you stole victory from the jaws of defeat when it happens!

I just was checking this page out to see if there is any hot anti containment priest deck. I am probably going to play this deck at the GP. Idk. Maybe Contagion?

Might just cut my radom massacre and random perish from the board for a couple of Contagions. I saw the suggestion of Rachet bomb. Waaay to slow in my opinion. Basically it cannot kill containment priest until turn 4. Idk maaaaybe slaughter Pact, although that one can be risky in a deck super tight on mana and in a combo deck that does not kill immediately.

@ Beebles :It's really not that hard though, unless they have additional pressure in the form of thoughtseize or counterspells, you get to sit and sculpt while their development is stunted from having to hold up extra mana every turn. That all said, having hapless researcher has been invalauble in my fight against the DRS, the instant speed of his ability and the ability to invest mana early makes the fight much easier.

As for hoping they don't know what I'm on, that's a real thing at a bigger event, but I've played the same deck at locals for ~6 years, almost everyone knows what I'm on now. I'm super excited to play at the GP where people won't know exactly what I'm on every round.

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Originally Posted by beebles

I just was checking this page out to see if there is any hot anti containment priest deck. I am probably going to play this deck at the GP. Idk. Maybe Contagion?

Might just cut my radom massacre and random perish from the board for a couple of Contagions. I saw the suggestion of Rachet bomb. Waaay to slow in my opinion. Basically it cannot kill containment priest until turn 4. Idk maaaaybe slaughter Pact, although that one can be risky in a deck super tight on mana and in a combo deck that does not kill immediately.

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I think Thoughtseize is your best weapon full stop. Contagion seems too deep and narrow, Slaughter Pact too expensive. You'll be boarding in creature removal when the hate against us is mostly non-creature. Abrupt Decay is the all-purpose cleaner for hate, and Thoughtseize/Force should cover the rest outside of Leyline. Echoing Truth for Leyline if necessary.

Will we get blown out by Containment Priest? Yes, we will. It's a new card that looks sweet, so people will play it. Will this be any different than a blowout from Rest in Peace? In my opinion, no, not by a long shot. This cleric lets us continue investing in the graveyard until we are able to remove it while with RIP there is no more graveyard. Careful Study is infinitely worse under RIP while Entomb is uncastable (barring really sad deck thinning). We can play around the Priest by not going for the reanimation half of the combo until they tap out. Containment Priest does hose the Show and Tell plan, but I was never excited about Showing in random silver bullets anyway.

Best tech IMHO: 4x Thoughtseize and extra redundancy (add a fatty and play some number of Animate Dead) in the main. Abrupt Decay and Massacre in the sideboard. Could even maindeck some number of Abrupts. That will make non-D&T decks boarding in the Priest look almost foolish since any surprise they achieve (watch out for 1W mana open) will be vastly inferior to the tempo they can gain from a well-placed RIP. Granted, any and all hate is usually brought in against us, so 1-2 Priest might make sideboards alongside RIP if people find the slots for it.

Having tested a bunch against DT with Priest and without. Priest is a million times better than RiP. Because DT usually has 0 instant speed interaction you can comfortably go off with AD -> RiP, Combo. RIP also made it so that your exhumes had no downside.

The matchup is miserable with Containment priest (passable if they aren't playing it). I doubt there will be much D&T anyways, but anyone who has access to CP will be playing them if they have done any testing.

I found that massacre was not great, dread of night was better and ratchet bomb was decent. The real problem was lack of decent fatty. Sphinx of Steel Wind was swords too much (also beaten by flier + mom). Aetherling was too slow. Grave titan was occaisonally just raced by fliers or equipment. Most of my success was fast comboing with Needle = karakas.

so our answer to containment priest is speed?

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Originally Posted by FlyingSkull13

so our answer to containment priest is speed?

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Thoughtseize, Abrupt Decay, Force of Will.

To clarify my statements above, I wasn't referring to D&T but U/W/x builds like Miracles, Jeskai Delver, and Deathblade, which should be much more popular. I could see D&T wanting the Priest over RIP.

@toor
Have you tried Inkwell Leviathan? I heard that's likely our best target against them.