Grats on having almost the full deck! I am having discord issues as well since I made an account some time ago for another game and now seemingly cant access the Miracles groupQuote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
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Grats on having almost the full deck! I am having discord issues as well since I made an account some time ago for another game and now seemingly cant access the Miracles groupQuote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
Has Anyone attempted to use Mission Briefing over snapcaster mage due to surveil's synergy with counterbalance?
No
Portent into Miracle into Snapcaster into Swords to his new creature is just too sweet
GP SHIZUOKA Day One undefeated Miracles
https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/...nabes_miracles
Day Two unfortunate 9th place finish Miracles
https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/...sts-2018-11-30
Notice that both decks are no longer running AK packages.
Kinda off-topic: How come it's so quiet on this sub/forum? The post second from the newest dates back a full month!
I remember times when pages were filled within hours.
Pretty much all the discussion has moved to DiscordQuote:
Originally Posted by klaus
People got sick of the same dumbass questions being asked over and over so they started their own discussion groups where they can make fun of people or kick them out when they ask dumbass questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
That is really unfair. The Miracles discord server is probably the most civil and active mtg discord server there is.Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrav
Hi, new here, but old in Magic, in Legacy, and well.... in life.
Anyway, I have a team constructed event coming up where I am playing in the Legacy seat and have decided to pilot Miracles. I have some experience playing the deck itself on and off since a bit before the Top ban but it has always been a secondary choice for me (generally a die-hard DnT player). I'm choosing Miracles because upon casually playing games with it recently, I've really enjoyed the overall texture of the gameplay and this seemingly newish customization aspect Miracles lends itself to. I also am a huge fan of Back to Basics and when people started playing AK in the list it hit me with all sorts of warm fuzzy nostalgia from my youth playing control decks.
Now that you have the back story, I have been testing various lists and design theories in the deck.
I started on a Monastery Mentor-centric build with 2 maindeck mentors and maxed out cantrips with no Entreats anywhere to be found complete with B2B and aforementioned AKs. This list was solid, but I found that the amount of "wheel spinning" it did finding counters and removal to control the game up until I could resolve Mentor comfortably didn't leave much to use with him in play. It overall felt a little underwhelming.
After that, I shifted to a no Mentor just Snaps and Jaces list. Nothing fancy just grind/bore your opponent to death and win. This build was very effective at times, but I felt could be better.
Then, I started looking at lists that were 5-0ing on MTGO that had a very cute maindeck Brightling as a 1 in the main. As a DnT player, this really intrigued me a lot so I decided to give it a go. I didn't directly take the 5-0 list, I put together a list that I felt worked toward what I wanted out of the deck and so far Brightling has been fairly and surprisingly solid.
This is the Brightling List that I have been playing around with for a few days. (note: none of the lists I have been playing have had Counterbalance):
Main:
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Brightling
1 Council's Judgment
3 Terminus
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Portent
1 Spell Pierce
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Back to Basics
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Tundra
sideboard:
1 Spell Snare
2 Containment Priest
2 Disenchant
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Flusterstorm
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Path to Exile
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
A couple things I've liked so far have been the 1 Teferi, I feel diversifying the PW suite isn't a bad idea and Teferi is very powerful and combos with B2B to keep your Tundra's active (it's narrow, but nice). Brightling's lifelink has been super relevant, giving staying power to help turn the corner.
A couple things I might change... The red splash for Pyroblast in the side has been something I've missed a bit and honestly, maybe 1 more Brightling somewhere in the 75 if I'm going to continue down this path.
Overall, I'm not set in stone about a list and there are a lot of cards and builds I'd like to consider further and if Brightling Miracles isn't where I want to be by the tournament then so be it.
The tournament is on Jan 13 and I'm going to be looking at every piece of info possible between now and then to hopefully help me settle on a direction to go and hopefully a list. For now, I'd like to know everyone's thoughts. Have you tested with Brightling? If so how did it go? What Miracles configurations are working best in the current meta?(It's been 6 months or so since my last Legacy event). Thanks in advance!
I'd like to try out a 1 off Intuition with the Accumulated Knowldge playset. Can you think of any other spicy cards that would go well with Intuition?
You could splash black for lingering souls / cabal therapy but it starts to be another deck.
Tonight I'll be playing some Miracles with Cardboardlive's very own Wilson Hunter! We're going to play with 4x Mentor and make an absurd number of monks. Stream will be starting around 7:00 PM EST. https://www.twitch.tv/deathandtaxesftw
Why doesn't anyone seem to be trying a SFM package (either MD or SB) these days? The only deck it seems particularly bad against is Grixis, whose K Commands deal with Batterskull very well.
Is the biggest pull away from this and toward Baneslayer just Grixis, and that Baneslayer deals with Eldrazi combat so much better?
Eldrazi is not very common and it’s dealt very well with Mentor and Terminus
Command + Snapcaster definitely is the real deal there we need more counterspell or a new trick
According to mtgtop8 it is the most common deck in legacy (admittedly just 7%, but still). It depends on your meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
I love UW control but the card advantage of Snapcaster into Hymn and or Command alongside with Jace has been historically the best after TC and DTT bans.
Let alone new cards like Liliana 2.0 and Fatal Push..
After the DRS ban that allowed Miracles to exploit the raw CA of AK along with powerful finishers like Mentor or Entreat, I don't think that Grixis control is considered a bad mu. More like 50/50 (let alone if you have dedicated sb slots like Baneslayer or Search for Azkanta).Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Isn't Back 2 basics really good against grixis control, and therefore Search for Azcanta is worse?
How good B2B is against Grixis Control really depends on the Miracles version. In UWR B2B is usually sided out/not brought in, since nowadays Grixis Control plays with at least 4 basics and UWR needs to use its own Volcanics for the Pyroblasts consistently. In UW, since there are no Pyroblasts, B2B are usually brought in for extra mana pressure. SfA on the other hand is an excellent CA engine (even greater than Jace) that can be used against Grixis. B2B is a nuicanse for the Grixis Control. SfA though if flipped is gg. To sum up, B2B is a more general hate slot (and if your local has many Eldrazi, a necessity), while SfA is more of a control mu dedicated slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by merfolkotpt
Wear / tear or disenchant, guys? Pros-cons?
You get out of Choke with a single Plains and you can kill both a boring enchhantment and a Chalice with 1 card.Quote:
Originally Posted by wtgger
Sinergy with CBalance and as good as Disenchant with Snapcaster Mage
Disenchant over W/T makes sense only under a strictly Azorius build.
There is no synergy with CB since the rules change, but besides that, there is a serious drawback of Wear//Tear that makes the grand majority of Miracles list (regardless of being UW or UWr) to use Disenchant. There are many, many times when fetching for Volcanics (like when facing D&T or Eldrazi) instead of a basic plains can be really atrocious since you get exposed to wasteland (or is not a Pyroblast mu)Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
someone asked me about mission briefing over snapcaster and i put it into words. posting here since other people might find it useful, also curious to hear what others have to say
yeah no worries, i'll just leave it here and you can read it whenever
i'll start with the easy one - mission briefing
the "flashback" effect is super powerful for the same reasons snapcaster's flashback effect is
essentially its just late game option coverage, get all the tools you need to answer threats and the like
the delta is you lose the 2/1 body but get to surveil 2 and get access to more spells you can flashback
losing the 2/1 is unfortunate but i dont think its that bad a loss
today's metagame is really really good at mitigating the power of the 2/1 body
nonblue decks are suddenly more powerful so creatures like thalia and TKS and w/e are in the way of your beatdown plan
the 2/1 can still block defensively which is utility, esp. if its a big hitter like gurmag angler coming in or a weenie like quirion ranger
also in combo flash value creature is really good
but in general snapcaster's net worth imo has declined'
point blank - over the years WOTC has been printing some powerful creatures
snapcaster['s body] hasn't really aged well with the power level of those cards
enter: mission briefing
i think the surveil 2 is actually super super useful
miracles in my vision is a deck all about consistency and option coverage
you're also trying to leverage your most powerful cards - terminus, jace, white win condition - and they all need some degree of setup
i'm not going to say surveil 2 solves all the problems but its just an added boost of consistency that adds up
its impossible to objectively quantify but the more you play with the card the more you find yourself happy when you bin dead lands or dead removal spells or dead anything-that-doesnt-deal-with-the-board
kind of like when ponder was introduced, ponder shuffling away bad cards was a nuts feeling
surveil 2 is a little like that
next benefit is greater selection in spells you can flashback
miracles in general has a stigma attached to it
people dont like losing to the deck
the result is that people are playing a lot more hateful cards towards miracles
things like choke, chalice, planeswalkers - cards that are good at beating miracles while dodging swords to plowshares and terminus
the only other card that really answers them all is force of will
as newer cards enter the legacy format force of will actually gets a lot better because it remains the consistent answer to everything
like lightning bolt isn't as good as it used to be since cards like gurmag and true-name exist
but fow can stop both
fow could stop both**
so in my eyes force of will has insane value. flashing it back with an additional 2 mana stapled onto it is still extremely powerful after you've stabilized
sorry i just realized i wrote a lot haha
i will say though
there is a cost to playing the card
beware the mana - i had to cut a 2nd mesa for a 3rd tarn to get to UUUW more consistently
and also not having 2/1 bodies means you need more wraths >i think<
uhhh and lastly i'd recommend a 2 mission briefing 1 snapcaster split
"get the best of both worlds" kinda deal
mission briefing has synergy with the rest of the deck too
- with counterbalance you can surveil 2 to set up the deck better
- with mentor you get an extra 1/1 and prowess
- with predict you dont need to wait for another cantrip to set up the draw 2
- doesn't lose to surgical extraction (text says "choose" not "target")
Mission Briefing is good. it helps you a lot to set up a Miracle draw or just with Predict. You just need to fetch less basic Plains if you're running so many UU spells and let's say it, SCM, nowadays, wasn't lasting very long with StP, Thalia Fatal Push and Kolaghan's Command around.
Our deck, imho, still lacks a new finisher. We are good at controlling the board but our planeswalkers aren't real finishers. They are better at locking the game while you play safely the win condition.
Entreat the Angels back again? Mentor is still great with those many prowess spells in the deck.
Surely, SCM ambush Gaddock Teeg so well and can chump block Knight of the Reliquary and kills planeswalkers
I am playtesting Teferi and though I love the marginal card advantage it provides (Azcanta and Jace are better at it) and the ability to get rid of planeswalkers with it (Liliana is just everywhere), it's still not making it through.
It costs 5, it's pierceable and it doesn't win the match on its own ever.
WotC the Top ban was too big here. give us more tools. Do it.
Haven't posted here in a while, but with Anuraag posting his thoughts on Mission Briefing, I've also been testing it and posted the following in the Miracles Discord: I would say it’s still very much in the testing / brewing category of cards. That being said, it’s very close and there are some real reasons to consider it. Some pros and cons as it related to SCM below...
Cons:
- Costs UU vs SCMs U1
- Doesn’t come with SCMs 2/1 body, and therefore isn’t an auxiliary wincon, blocker, etc.
- Not a creature so you can't bounce it to your hand with Jace -1 or put it back in your library with Terminus.
- Gets hit by Duress effects where SCM doesn’t.
- Gets hit by taxing effects like Thalia, Thorn, etc. where SCM doesn’t.
Pros:
- Surveil is a surprisingly strong mechanic, allowing you to dig deeper off of cantrips.
- Surveil has built in synergy with Predict, AK, and CB allowing you to have greater control over the top of your library.
- Being a spell has synergy with Monastery Mentor allowing you trigger it more easily and often at instant speed.
- Doesn’t target and therefore isn’t affected by Surgical Extraction.
- Doesn’t use flashback allowing you to use alternate costs such as FoW.
Personally I’m going to keep testing it in a Mentor heavy build. I don’t think I’d consider it in my Entreat build as SCM blocking and attacking are more relevant, but I could be wrong!
Tonight I'll be streaming some D&T vs Miracles exhibition matches with Anuraag Das. Matches will start at ~7:15 PM EST. My channel for the D&T side (https://www.twitch.tv/deathandtaxesftw) and his for the Miracles side (https://www.twitch.tv/anzi104).
how comes that we never considered really Soldevi Excavations?
it surely is not a SDT, but it can dig away lands and wrong cc cards for CB. Sure, Island sacrifice is tough if drawn early and SfA is strictly better than this being additionally land advantage...
Let's start by noticing that it's Card Disadvantage, full stop. That should give you pause on any card (including enchants that don't give you a card-worth return)Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Second, if it gets wastelanded (it will) it costed you *two* land drops; making opposing wastelands more effective.
Third, each time you tap it costs you 3 mana to Scry 1. At that rate, you're already better off using Crystal Ball by the first usage, while never opening yourself up for a nasty wasteland; and no one uses that.
Search for Azcanta. Comes down quicker, does the thing cheaper, land positive, generates CA, combo with Teferi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
why not try both, mission B y SCM are great, i wil play this list (ok, i know no have miracles):
Creatures:6
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Monastery Mentor
Spells:34
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Brainstorm
1 Path to Exile
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Counterbalance
1 Counterspell
2 Mission Briefing
2 Council's Judgment
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
Lands:20
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
2 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
SB:
3 REB
and another cheap instant
I am currently playing 2 MB and 2 SCM. Super happy with it, Mission Briefing is a shuffle effect even better than a fetchland after a Brainstorm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcpdump
Hi.
I don't play miracles but I do play a somewhat similar Esper control list and I've found that the goblins MU is just atrocious. I can wrath away their board but they are so good at rebuilding very fast. Granted, I can accept that goblins just isn't going to be a good MU given the relatively low play the deck gets, but I'm just wondering how you guys feel the MU is and how you combat the little red menace. I mean, I've even been considering bad cards like ghostly prison or sphere of law in my SB. Don't tell me that's the best I can do.
Thanks for any help.
Depends on the Goblins list, but most are pretty soft to enchantments. Moat and Humility both seem pretty good.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
Some Goblins lists have outs to Moat with Siege-Gang Commander, Kiki Jiki + Lightning Crafter, Skirk Prospector + Goblin Sharpshooter, etc, but if you're playing a control deck, there's no reason why you wouldn't have answers for those.
Humility is pretty much lights out if you're not cold to overcosted 1/1's.
Since you're playing Esper, there's also Engineered Plague. A single Plague doesn't stop them completely, but it still does a lot of damage. Two Plague's is basically gg.
To answer your question though, I'd say Mentor and Entreat would be the cards that Miracles would use to beat Goblins.
if you go Esper you can play easily some Arena and Academy Rector.
Arena give you Ugin for continuative sweeper, Academy give you Moat and Form of the Dragon
Esper additionally give you Bitterblossom and Lingering Soul for additional chump blockers. You should definitely point to a combo imho
This is actually an arena rector control deck, and normally I agree that Ugin is amazing, until they blow it up with cratermaker. And for some reason it seems like goblin lists these days are running 3-4 copies of that guy... Probably due to the resurgence of stoneforge. Moat is interesting. Of course the $700 price tag is less than ideal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
add 1 copy of the first Nicol Bolas, pws.
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker? Yeah, he's already in there. But he's terrible against goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Do you guys really want to live in a world where Miracles has a good matchup against Goblins? I swear there were a few years there where the only thing Goblins was good at was beating Miracles.
We already have with Izzet Staticaster or Moat
In last chalenge Anzid makes 3d place. There was new cards such as teferi and narset. I saw teferi in action and it was pretty good, but what about narset? Can you share your thouts about pilloting her?