Having 1 slot devoted to the card is a worthwhile expenditure as long as Wasteland and Dual-heavy manabases are a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goddik
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Having 1 slot devoted to the card is a worthwhile expenditure as long as Wasteland and Dual-heavy manabases are a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goddik
I have 1x lftl in side since january and I think it is worth it. yeah sometimes it feels a bit cumbersome because you're basically switching your game plan from tempo to control, but wastelanding one land per turn is huge (vs esper, 12post, jund, mud, mirror, bug control and even more) and sometimes you can also use it as a tempo card by dredging it to pump your mongoose right away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goddik
my doubt is in the bug delver matchup, where they have no basics but their curve is very low and tapping out every turn to waste their lands sometimes is not what you want to do, expecially if they have a threat already going... but still, the mana denial is the key in this matchup so... what to do here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze22
I think your last sentence really summed up my attitude to loam. Key thing i think, if you choose to play it is to choose wisely when you play it. I.e play it when you have a land drop left over on an empty board for example. It is traditionally the nuts against team america, so it should be the same now.
This is my first post and the topic may have been brought up in one of the OVER 9000 pages of this thread, but i i wanted to know what your guys thoughts on sylvan library in RUG were. I have just added it on modo and up till today have yet to see it come up; then it happened, i had it in a game three against affinity where my opponent, by turn two, had dropped an ornothopter, signal pest, and a vault skrige. tapped a dude with spring leaf to draw two cards. My board is trop, waste, sylvan library, my had is good for the match in my mind, i have a two for one with forked bolt along side a goyf and goose; but looking at this board state i feel a little behind. I assume there is a plating coming next turn to give a dude some srys paints. Sylvan library activation reveals three dead cards, i keep one throw the others away and ponder; the third card down is also a blank and i shuffle to draw another forked bolt. So far i have enough card advantage from the forked bolts, or i feel i do, along with a fresh three cards next turn. I just need to doge a plate or a stone forge for one, and with some luck i do. The next three cards turn up some gas with goyf, volcanic island and another card. i take out his pest and vault and from here the game was down hill and i bury him in card slection and advantage with my two for one and 12 life for three cards when i needed a clear top to dig further with brain storm.
Anyways i was just wondering if this card is something you guys have felt is dominating once resolved or was this just a case of good draws and lucky dodges for a few turns while i built my mana and board state to combat his.
For refferance this is my list
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Sylvan Library
3 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Daze
2 Spell Snare
2 Forked Bolt
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
Sideboard
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Submerge
2 Rough/Tumble
1 Krosan Grip
1 Life from the Loam
1 Force of Will
2 Pyroblast
Which cards should we board out postboard vs jund?
Hey everybody,
I'm going to GP Starsbourg and still haven't decided how should my main&side look like.
I came up with 2 close builds. With the first one I succeeded to win a GPT and has Lavamancer Main, second is more classic.
1st build:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Nimble Moongoose
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Lighting Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
18 Lands
SB:
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Submerge
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
1 Spell Snare
1 Envelop
1 Scavenging Ooze
2nd build:
Main:
- 2 Grim Lavamancer
+ 1 Nimble Moongoose
+ 1 Spell Snare
SB:
- 1 Spell Snare
- 1 Scevenging Ooze
+2 Rough/Tumble
I was really satisfied with how the Lavamancers performed, as they are good even vs. Stoneblade, but I am not 100% sold on them.
Any thoughts about upcoming GP meta and suggestion for how according to you RUG should look like?
Thoughtscour seems less useful. FOW is generally the card that comes out. It would be a major hit to your tempo to FOW a cascaded card. It all depends on how many cards you need to bring in and what your 75 looks like.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios
It is a very good card, mostly against control. I'd take it out for aggro or combo match-ups as it's way too slow to be worthwhile there. If it resolves against Stoneblade, Maricles or BUG Control - you've got a serious advantage. The card advantage is more than enough to push you to the top of the game, but in these matches where your life total isn't being attacked you can afford to spend some life to dig through your deck and find the real good cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by xfire
I'm running one library main deck right now, and I like it. I wouldn't suggest any more than one, and I wouldn't object to seeing it in the board instead of the main either. That all comes down to metta and play style. But by itself it is a great card to include in RUG, especially with the currently slow metta.
Cheers.
SCG Atlanta Invitational Top 8 had 0 RUG Delver and the Legacy Open Top 16 had 0 RUG Delver lists. What do you guys think of this? Just a hostile meta, pour number of players?
Seems like midrange and creature-based decks are still sticking around in the meta, despite the presence of combo, making RUG Delver a less good deck choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceustice
Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
Is it a bad idea to board in sulfuric vortex? I was thinking of using it as a means to shutdown punishing fire but it seems like a bad idea since jund is more aggresive of the two. Is jund really that bad of a matchup or is it something like maverick which is 50/50 for me if you know how to ply against it.
Jund has more removal (4 of which can't be countered by you) than you have threats, on top of running more creatures than you have counter + removal for. Throw in hand disruption, and Jund is a really tough matchup.
I think there is a need to bring back forked bolt and even sulfur elemental perhaps? Esperblade can be pretty difficult to beat without forked bolt.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceustice
I've actually been thinking about testing Arc Trail it seems to fit the needs of the deck way better right now. Even though it is at that iffy mana cost area being able to Kill Bob, BBE, 2 souls, a SFM and 1 to the face, or a Bob and Deathrite Shaman seems to really be where this deck needs to be right now.
I'm no expert, but others have reported that Sulfuric Vortex is a card against Jund. Tempo Thresh is more aggressive earlier on. Sulfuric Vortex helps get there when the midrange deck's power band kicks in and their cards begin to take over. Sulfuric Vortex is a means to seal out the game if they run out of Abrupt Decays. Tarmogoyf usually draws in Decay, so Sulfuric Vortex has some power. Also, your burns are actually more aggressive, because Jund cuts Lightning Bolt in favour of Punishing Fires and Maelstrom Pulse, which is slower or does no damage to you directly.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios
The match up analysis really does depend on build and pilot. A poorly piloted Jund deck can be a good match up for you if they run into your Stifles and Wastelands. I would say many match ups are 50% by this alone. Don't worry too much about percentages though. Just worry about your strategy on beating Jund. Where is Tempo Thresh strong than Jund? Tempo Thresh needs to keep Jund restricted of its resources. It needs to beat down and hard before Jund gets up to 5 mana. You MUST take care of the Deathrite Shamans. Everything else just depends on how aggressive you are. Use Spell Snare/Spell Pierce to hit Hymn to Tourachs.
Thanks for the input. I'll keep these in mind next time I face Jund.Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
I have the answer: there are poor players piloting the deck. I watched all the video coverage of the event and rug was on screen for around 4-5 rounds. every single game they lost due to a stupid/not so stupid mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceustice
this deck is very difficult to play, you have to know the meta, you have to know the archetypes... you have to know how to use cantrips, how to use fow, daze, how to PLAY STIFLE, how and when to establish a denial plan. you have to quickly realize wether or not you're the beatdown. you also have to know how to use the sideboard and you must do it perfectly. you have to know when to mulligan. this deck is so hard to play but if used correctly it is really rewarding. even the smallest mistake destroys your game more than any other deck.
I would not suggest anyone to play this deck in a tournament if they did not test enough with it (and it takes really long).
right now the deck is well placed in the meta.
We have the jund which is a very good matchup, just deny their mana and they lose so easily, one goose is game.
There are plenty of show and tell decks and they're our best matchup, but again, you have to know how to play against that deck (the guy on camera on the invitational left spell snares in after sb... lol).
Storm decks are also very good matchup, like every combo decks they're wrecked by tempo decks.
Then we have bug decks... the control/shardless version is the easiest. again, denial is the key here and we stifle their visions.
The bug delver version is a tougher matchup but we can bring it up with our sb and a massive dose of testing against it.
Stoneblade variants are somewhat even... but after sb we go really above them with our grudges and pyroblasts.
so again... i think the deck is fine right now, we just need to practice more and we will be rewarded as I think this is the best deck ever made.
The only undefeated deck in legacy rounds was Josh Glantzman's RUG Delver: keep in mind that this was a dual-format event and T8 isn't as telling. For reference, his list:Quote:
Originally Posted by ceustice
Creatures (12)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
Lands (18)
4 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
Spells (30)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Chain Lightning
4 Ponder
Sideboard
2 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Envelop
2 Flusterstorm
1 Krosan Grip
3 Red Elemental Blast
4 Submerge
2 Rough / Tumble
So as to not double-post, I'll add that I played RUG (72/75 Saito's list) for the first time in the Invitational and made several mistakes that cost me a match. I rebuilt the deck (adding stifles) and played the Legacy challenge to test, where I went 3-1. The 3 sideboard Sulferic Vortex were nothing short of excellent, contributing to a significant portion of my g2/3 victories.
That list looks beautiful, doesn't it :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by baboontilt
Not. Enough. Burn. LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Sun