[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

Just bought a bunch of non-foil blue rares for my up-and-coming Cube. Jesus Christ those cards were expensive for being relatively obscure, junk-ish rares. I understand Cube and Commander are a thing, but you typically only need 1-of the card, and I can't imagine the demand to be that high for those kinds of cards.

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

Just bought a bunch of non-foil blue rares for my up-and-coming Cube. Jesus Christ those cards were expensive for being relatively obscure, junk-ish rares. I understand Cube and Commander are a thing, but you typically only need 1-of the card, and I can't imagine the demand to be that high for those kinds of cards.

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Crap rares? What are those? Every format is A Real Thing now. Rainbow Stairwell is driving up the price of Chaos Imps, didn't you know? Oh, and Underground Sea of course - you gotta be able to cast both Spelltwine and Corrupt, or else you ain't shit son.

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Originally Posted by humppa

Guys, wake up and stop bitching (ok, I know, Bitching is in the topic name...)

We are really lucky guys, all of us. Why? Because we have a hobby that costs us a lot of money, but when we would choose to quit it, we will received that money back (probably a lot more).

All my friends have hobbies too. RC models, horses, cars, ... and what all those hobbies have in common? You never ever see your money again.

So - stop bitching. We all have a lot of fun and we are not losing money (yet).

If the sky will fall, there should be only one really bad end - we will lose our money. But - this is how all other hobbies work all the time.

Look at you in the mirror and say: "I am lucky bastard, because my hobby is not only fun, it is also NOT a money trash!"

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sorrry, my english is a little bit rusty, but I hope you get the point.

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Most bitching comes out of concern for the game/format/community, not out of concern for individual finances.

When a card like Consecrated Sphinx is almost as expensive as Sphinx's Revelation, there's a problem with the casual formats; casual isn't so "casual" anymore. I get that Mirrodin Besieged was a small set and Return to Ravnica is a large one, but Sphinx's Revelation is played as a 4-of in all of the UWx Control decks in Standard and it sees play as a 2-of in Modern's UWR Control; the demand for this card should be off the charts compared to the demand of Consecrated Sphinx which sees play as a 1-of in some Commander decks and some Cubes.

I think you are seriously underestimating the size of the casual demographic. The Cube and Commander fanboys out there are legion. But they mostly stay in their hobbit holes so you don't hear much from them, especially on these forums.

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Originally Posted by danyul

I think you are seriously underestimating the size of the casual demographic. The Cube and Commander fanboys out there are legion. But they mostly stay in their hobbit holes so you don't hear much from them, especially on these forums.

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This could be true in that I'm underestimating the casual players, but do you think they outnumber the legion of Standard FNM and Modern FNM players? Consecrated Sphinx is played as a 1-of in the casual formats. Sphinx's Revelation is played as a 4-of in the UWx Control decks that are littering Standard as well as a 2-of in Modern's UWR Control. The casual group's demand outnumbers the Standard/Modern playerbase that much?

$250 Underground Seas? I guess Dredge is a budget deck again since you can build the entire deck(Lion's Eye Diamonds included) for less than the price of Two Underground Seas.

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Originally Posted by danyul

I think you are seriously underestimating the size of the casual demographic. The Cube and Commander fanboys out there are legion. But they mostly stay in their hobbit holes so you don't hear much from them, especially on these forums.

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How expensive do cards have to get before they stop being "casual" in nature. I agree that rogue formats are growing in popularity faster than any of the established formats, but that can't last forever. At some point a person spending $1,000 on their casual jank deck isn't really just messing around. Is it expected that we'll all have our $10,000 legacy decks, looking down on the four figure plebs?

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

This could be true in that I'm underestimating the casual players, but do you think they outnumber the legion of Standard FNM and Modern FNM players? Consecrated Sphinx is played as a 1-of in the casual formats. Sphinx's Revelation is played as a 4-of in the UWx Control decks that are littering Standard as well as a 2-of in Modern's UWR Control. The casual group's demand outnumbers the Standard/Modern playerbase that much?

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It's hard to say. I don't have any stats. But I do know that WOTC makes an incredible amount of money selling boxes to casual kitchen table noobs who don't even like the FNM scene. And in regards to Consecrated Sphinx, it's a mythic from a small set (right?) and is a legitimate Cube/Commander staple. Sphinx's Rev, on the other hand, was a mythic from one of the best selling sets of all time, which has been printed several times over. And although it may be a 4-of in those top Standard decks, that doesn't mean everybody is playing UW blahblah.dec. The format, while not super diverse, is varied enough where I think people can play without having to get Sphinx Rev. I think MonoBlack Devotion is actually the hot shit right now. And in Modern there are a million decks to play, the most popular of which is Jund, right?

There are a lot of casuals out there. I'm at my local shop way too often and I know all the regulars. I know the Legacy crowd and the Modern crowd and the FNM crowd. But when a new set gets released, strange new faces come streaming in the shop doors nonstop. Kitchen table casuals that nobody recognizes come in by the boatload and pick up multiple booster boxes and then walk out into the night, only reemerging when the next set comes out. I'm not sure about the exact numbers, but the size of the casual MTG audience would blow your mind.

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Originally Posted by PirateKing

How expensive do cards have to get before they stop being "casual" in nature. I agree that rogue formats are growing in popularity faster than any of the established formats, but that can't last forever. At some point a person spending $1,000 on their casual jank deck isn't really just messing around. Is it expected that we'll all have our $10,000 legacy decks, looking down on the four figure plebs?

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Legacy as a format is almost as casual as Cube/EDH. What do we get from all this shit? Some expensive cards and a shot at an SCG trophy? EDH kids get all that minus the dreams of a plastic cup. Nobody expects the inflated scenario you are describing. But those EDH folks don't think of their decks as things for "messing around". There are Commander tryhards out there who take that shit seriously. Just because you label them as casuals doesn't mean they think of themselves that way. I think they are stinky casuals too, to be fair. I'm just saying, they are operating under a set of beliefs that leads them to spend X dollars in Y ways and that makes stupid EDH stuff expensive.

What happened to Mana crypt? It just doubled in price. And some1 bought almost all from MKM: https://www.magiccardmarket.eu/Mana_....c1p15177.prod

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Originally Posted by danyul

I think you are seriously underestimating the size of the casual demographic. The Cube and Commander fanboys out there are legion. But they mostly stay in their hobbit holes so you don't hear much from them, especially on these forums.

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I've of the opinion that Commander and Cube have more of an influence on price increases, moreso than Legacy. Modern is also a huge influence, with loads of speculators with money ready in their grubby hands.
Of course Legacy has an influence, but I firmly believe that the trio of EDH, Cube, and Modern are what have caused the ridiculous out-of-control price increases that we've seen.

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Originally Posted by mini1337s

I've of the opinion that Commander and Cube have more of an influence on price increases, moreso than Legacy. Modern is also a huge influence, with loads of speculators with money ready in their grubby hands.
Of course Legacy has an influence, but I firmly believe that the trio of EDH, Cube, and Modern are what have caused the ridiculous out-of-control price increases that we've seen.

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Yeah. This. I've been saying this since the Commander products introduced countless plebes to Eternal.

The cards pulled between 2-4 non-rotating formats can jump up damn near overnight with little explanation, except someone somewhere won something with it in their 75/99.

sent from phone, don't be a dick

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Originally Posted by mini1337s

I've of the opinion that Commander and Cube have more of an influence on price increases, moreso than Legacy. Modern is also a huge influence, with loads of speculators with money ready in their grubby hands.
Of course Legacy has an influence, but I firmly believe that the trio of EDH, Cube, and Modern are what have caused the ridiculous out-of-control price increases that we've seen.

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I second and confirm Commander has higher price pressure than Legacy. Nearly every dedicated Commander player wants a set of duals, fetches, and other one-of pieces. Mana Crypt is evidence of its popularity. Additionally, the ceiling for "pimping" is often higher for Commander as people like to be self-expressive. Added to that, many alters occur too, further reducing circulation of playables.

Fucking Commander.

I'm not labeling their choice of format in a disparaging way, in my youth a built and bought stupid 60-card kitchen table decks to play with my friends, and I know how much fun that can be. But at some point of monetary input, there has to be shift where it's not some passing interest. I know EDH kids take their format seriously, even if it's seriously about not being serious. It just seems difficult to label decks or formats as casual once they start summing certain prices.

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Originally Posted by Koby

Fucking Commander.

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Casual scum.

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Originally Posted by gregtron

Casual scum.

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Sadly, they represent a larger market, and larger marketshare than Legacy can ever hope to become.

Isn't it enough to say that no one wants their deck to suck?
Even non-competitive decks can still sport synergy and interactions. They aren't on a par with GP: Burkina Faso, but they aren't shitty. A deck can be 'bad' without sucking, though that invites a lot of subjectivity.
I mean that is a problem too - you cannot simply decree that no casual decks will play duals and Forces. Any group of players can say 'we want 'our decks' to have (subjectively or objectively) 'good cards'.' There's nothing on Bayou that says 'tournament-grade, professional-quality only'.

sent from phone, don't be a dick

There's no line dividing casual and competitive decks. When I was young (read: 24), we all played casual decks, because our group was casual and because we've never went to tournaments with their weird stinky people in weird stinky stores. Still, our decks were quite expensive and some of use even had duals, Forces, WoGs, etc., with the most expensive card within our group being Library of Alexandria. I remember when some CZK 2000 Clampfinnity completely wrecked my CZK 15 000 Casual deck. So, which one was casual? The cheap one? The bad one?

Also, it was very funny to play at the kitchen table. (Or pub table...) No weirdos and nerds, no easily distinguished archetypes (ok, until you've learnt what your buddies play), completely senseless metagame, etc. I was sad when our group collapsed (mostly because of burnout, modern frame and heroin) and I don't think that ever since then I had as much fun with MtG as back in late 1990's and early 2000's.
Otoh, the amount of bitching and whining ("If only you'd play Jokulhaups, it's a fair card, but Armageddon is so unjust!") heard in a usual casual group is what prevents me from joining any EDH/casual party. Yeah, I tend to bitch and whine a lot, but really, even I have some boundaries.

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Originally Posted by gregtron

Casual scum.

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+1

Lol @ hatred towards casual / EDH players

No wonder people play commander where you can build a deck for a few hundred bucks opposed to Legacy where a godd deck is 1500-2000$. And it's not like your EDH deck will be way worse if you only have 3 fetches and 2 duals and no FoW. Also, competitive 1v1 EDH exists, and is sporting 30-40 player tournaments weekly in France and monthly in the Phillippines and some parts of the US, which is quite something if you consider that the format is not supported by Wizards and is being governed by a group of 5 French dudes. People play so-called casual formats like Cube and EDH because they are burnt out / can't afford Legacy/Standard/Modern deck or have no time / desire to invest in and play 'serious' formats.

But please cry more about them filthy casuals driving up the price of Mana Crypt, Consecrated Sphinx and duals while you post your fully foiled out Japanese RUG deck on the pimp thread.