[Deck] GW/x Maverick

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

StP doesn't hit Emrakul either...

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Yeah rereading my post again I just realized that. Oops. Still, I'm not really sold on it. It might be worth testing at the very least but I like the idea of having something that can take down some bigger problem creatures and that is cheaper as well.

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Originally Posted by Philipp2293

:eyebrow:

Also, the fact that Swords hit Griselbrand is nearly irrelevant, cause either they draw into a counter for it anyway, or if they don't or decide to let it resolve, they basically get a D7 for free.

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Yeah, again, sorry, I'm pretty terrible about remembering Emrakul's protection. Pretty embarrassing way for me to start on these forums, honestly. As for Grizzy, though, the decks that tend to drop it on me are Reanimator or Combo Elves (as a backup to me Mindbreak Trapping their Emrakul). In the former, the Reanimator player (who's a good friend of mine and I practice with a lot) doesn't hit his counters as often as he might like and also has the likely chance that he reanimated Griselbrand with Reanimate and has seen an attack or two from me already which puts him in the red zone for life regardless if he counters it or not. If he gains the life he's still down a dude and has to hit something else. With Combo Elves I have to get by the rest of his board anyways so it doesn't really matter how much more he's drawing at that point. The only other player who runs it is the lone Sneak and Show player but he hasn't been jumping into the ring so much lately so I've yet to face him.

Some other problem cards the Swords in my meta hits but not Abrupt: Jin-Gitaxias, Elesh Norn, Blightsteel Colossus, Lodestone Golem, Sundering Titan, and Grave Titan. In most of the cases where I'd want to be killing little dudes, I'd usually prefer more of a board wipe situation, since it's usually more a problem of they have an army of dudes that I'm having trouble getting through, so at that point it doesn't usually matter if I'm playing Swords or Abrupt Decay.

I think DR Shaman is clearly the way to go for Maverick so I am glad some players pick up on it.

Maybe a split is right between Swords and Decay. Decay has impressed me quite a lot. For example against the Lodestone Golem deck you might hit Grim Monolith before they get to use it. Against the Grave Titan deck you might hit a Deed if they have to play it without open mana or a Sensei's Top in response to their fetching. Though against Combo Elves Swords is much better because you need every mana. For that matchup (and Combo in general) you should consider Thoughtseizes in the SB, they help a lot.

With a couple of Decays you can also go down to 1 or 2 Qasali Pridemages to make more room in the deck.

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Originally Posted by Tao

I think DR Shaman is clearly the way to go for Maverick so I am glad some players pick up on it.

Maybe a split is right between Swords and Decay. Decay has impressed me quite a lot. For example against the Lodestone Golem deck you might hit Grim Monolith before they get to use it. Against the Grave Titan deck you might hit a Deed if they have to play it without open mana or a Sensei's Top in response to their fetching. Though against Combo Elves Swords is much better because you need every mana. For that matchup (and Combo in general) you should consider Thoughtseizes in the SB, they help a lot.

With a couple of Decays you can also go down to 1 or 2 Qasali Pridemages to make more room in the deck.

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It was pretty funny when people I talked to made it seem like Deathrite is a nombo with Knight of the Reliquary...as if I'm going to be hitting my own GY most of the time. If anything it hurt my Terravore I was running at the time so I swapped it with Sublime.

I'm still not sure how I feel between StP and AD, but I'll still likely try them on different weeks. Maybe 2 Decays in the SB, but my board is pretty tightly constructed for my meta. Not real sure where I'd fit it, but I do think Pernicious Deed is a really good idea. I meant to pick one up yesterday, even, but wound up forgetting about it and only remembering after I'd already used all my store credit. It sucks that you mention Thoughtseize like that since I just unloaded my set to get my Savannahs which I feel I needed far more because frankly Temple Gardens was hurting me pretty bad.

I don't know I'd want to go down on Pridemages, though. They hit a bunch of things (in addition to some obvious AD targets, it also can hit Batterskull if they tap out to drop it on board), swing for 2 (usually more when they go it alone), and put down some exalted triggers when my big guys go in. It's a thought, though, maybe cut one Swords and one Pridemage to put in two Abrupt Decays.

I think that playing Thoughtseizes MD could be what Maverick needs to get back in shape. The list that I will post is not enough tested yet, but I have made a couple of games and whenever I have casted Thoughtseize on T1 it was amazing. You feel much less helpless when playing against Combo opponents and T1 Thoughtseize (or Duress), T2 Thalia (or Teeg) usually puts you in a great spot. I think something like this could be the way to go for Maverick in the current Meta:

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Savannah
3 Bayou
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Plains

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Thoughtseize
2 Sylvan Library

SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 3 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog

The way this is looking, you should really head over to The Rock thread. Thoughtseize, Abrupt Decay, and DRS alongside Goyf, SFM, GSZ, KotR, etc is what we've been running since we could.

The transitions are smooth but I would say this is still rather Maverick than The Rock. Most current Rock decks play ~16-18 creatures including 4 Tarmogoyf and 4 Bob, this has 26 (counting GSZ) without Bob or Goyf.

I agree with Tao, the decks seem similar but feel different playing them. Personally I prefer Maverick...that and I don't have nor do I really have the cash to obtain Tarms and Bobs at the moment. I don't think my build will change too much. Like I said, I'll probably try the Abrupt Decays but I don't know that I'll need them as StP hits more and the Pridemage I'll be taking out also hits things I'd want to be taking down with Abrupt Decay. If I didn't just sell my Thoughtseizes, though, I'd probably run them against the combo matchup, but then hindsight's always 20/20 I suppose.

This list placed 2nd at the Japan national championship, 384 players.

2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Fauna Shaman
2 Scryb Ranger
1 Loyal Retainers
3 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
3 Forest
1 Plains
3 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Maze of Ith
3 Savannah
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Sideboard:
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Peacekeeper
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Crop Rotation
1 Path to Exile
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Armageddon
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rule of Law
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Bojuka Bog

Can someone explain the the usefulness of loyal retainers?

Turn 1: mana accelerator or green sun one out
Turn 2: play fauna shaman or green sun a shaman out
Turn 3: activate fauna shaman discarding the legend, search for and play the loyal retainers
Turn 4: activate loyal retainers and swing a 3/3 dork and a 4/4 shaman?

Is Elesh Norn used mainly as a board wipe?

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Originally Posted by Lt. Quattro

Can someone explain the the usefulness of loyal retainers?

Turn 1: mana accelerator or green sun one out
Turn 2: play fauna shaman or green sun a shaman out
Turn 3: activate fauna shaman discarding the legend, search for and play the loyal retainers
Turn 4: activate loyal retainers and swing a 3/3 dork and a 4/4 shaman?

Is Elesh Norn used mainly as a board wipe?

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Your main target for the Fauna Shaman and Loyal Retainers is Elesh Norn. Not only can she be a board wipe but if you've got a field filled with a ton of mana dorks and little creatures, suddenly they all overpower your opponent's board allowing you to swing in for the kill.

With regards to my deck, I wound up 2-2 last night, beating out UWr Delver and Reanimator but losing to MUD (in a particularly grindy game) and Oops, All Spells. Couldn't seem to hit my hate as quickly as I'd have liked despite Deathrites with the mana, he'd always be hitting the turn one combo which, as always, is tough for me. Unfortuntely I didn't get an opportunity to test out Elspeth because I never draw her. Even in the multiple for-fun practice games I played with my friends both before and after the event, I only hit her once and she got countered before I could really utilize her though in that specific situation she would've won me the game whereas the Archangel wouldn't so I'll probably continue using her for awhile and see how it continues to perform with her.

Topped 8 with 3 other Mavericks on GPT in Bydgoszcz:
Then in top4 only me left.
Split in finals.

List:

1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Savannah
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Punishing Fire
1 Batterskull
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Life from the Loam
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Horizon Canopy
//SB
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


very short report (maybe I write something later):
R1 - Merfolks - cat walk - 2-0
R2 - Tempo RUG - catwalk 2 - 2-0
R3 - U/R Pyromancer ascession - that was weird in game 1 - don't know this deck enough good, but finded good solutions in second and third game - 2-1
R4 - Tempo RUG - catwalk 3 - 3-0
R5 - ID with one of three maverick.

Top8 - Nemesis - Sneak Attack - 2-1:
This was really one of the most stressful match:

Game 1 loses to turn 2 Sneak Attack from S&T -> Griselbrand draw 14, Petal -> Emrakul -> kill.

Side:
+2 Oblivion Ring
+2 Emrakul
+3 Red Elemental Blast

-2 Scavenging Ooze
-4 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Umezawa's Jitte

I could sided Extraction's but they're rather narrow in this MU.

Game 2:
I Fetch->Shaman -> pass - Opponent Island Ponder.
I Fetch on play not cracked -> SFM for Batterskull->pass - Opponent Sol land S&T-> Griselbrand and FoW my Red Elemental Blast....
and.. I put Emrakul :) Game 3.

Game 3:
Opponent didn't draw as well as 2 games before he died before resolving Sneak Attack.

In top4: RUG from Swiss - catwalk- 2-0

Top2: Split prizes.

I recently decided to complete my p.mav deck. I had been reading all the posts (from page 1 which is really a lot) they said before that p. mav is dead but in my meta it is very much competitive. I just want to get your thoughts in adding charms(selensya and boros) on the main board?

I really have to emphasize how good Sigarda is. Will play my mav-list tonight again and post a report if all goes well. Flying mav ftw!

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Originally Posted by Fatal

Topped 8 with 3 other Mavericks on GPT in Bydgoszcz:
Then in top4 only me left.
Split in finals.

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C'mon, you weren't the only one. Had to register just to write this :]

Getting back to the topic, how happy are you with the Shaman/Hierarch split?

Carllos good you join TheSource :)

Top4:

RUG(same from Swiss) - Punishing Mav
12 Cloudpost U/G - You(Straight GW list) :)

Its not best MU specially without good answers for S&T-> Titan. I tested a lot this MU day before with my Bro.

Btw until we wait for decklist maybe you could post your list. If I'm correct you was running straight GW list, I was curious how many Aven Mindcensors did you fit in your list, also sideboard - from my scouting you played 3 E.Tutor and toolbox for them.

About Split I was happy running split - I never had problems finding mana, and additional I used Shaman for other abilities - good was also that I gives other then bant colors so I could play REB and Punishing Fire from them - it wasn't so important when you fetch correctly but it gives a little edge over hierarch.

The time for modesty has passed. All hail G/W-straight! Won against Goblins, Jund, UG Enchantress and Esper yesterday ending with a fantastic huge price of 4 Innistrad boosters giving me 4 commons worth money and the rest went into the bin (gotta love booster rippings that turn into nothing). MVP's were as usual Mother of Runes and Aven Mindcensor. Will post a report later today.

Changed my mind, not worth the effort to write out the deck list and stuff since this thread is just filled with spam from deck lists allready.

Card choices I ran with:

Sigarda, Host of Herons - very strong vs jund and esper g1. Works great to avoid annihilation from silly Emrakuls and with a mother of runes in play beats kinda hard on your opponents forehead.

Aven Mindcesor - flyes, trades with delver, shuts down stoneforge mystic, shuts down fetches, goblin matron, opponents pacts/zeniths if they are on elves or mirror, infernal tutor etc etc. This is a beast.

Playing 3 thalia main, she seems more important than ever and if I am on the play against Jund for instance she is a house followed up with waste and aven mindcensor. Four maybe? I will settle with three right now.

4 Mother of runes, who in their right mind cuts a mom and then procedes to weaken their manabase by playing punishing fire? I will probably get pwned by a deck playing just that soon enough but when I get to untap t2 with an active mom, I tend to win. Funny that I opened a hand with Savannah, Cavern of Souls, Forest and four moms last night. The fantastic beats that the esper opponent took after I then continued to slap revoker on Jitte and went to town on him with 1/1s!

Gaea's Cradle = sigarda early, ooze that eats entire graveyards, cant play without it, it just wins flat out against so many decks when you get to untap with that and an army of guys on your side holding a zenith in hand.

Right now playing 1 Thrun (shroud and solid blocker against aggro) but thinking of cutting him for either third Aven Mindcensor, second Phyrexian Revoker, birds of paradise or second Qasali Pridemage.



Sideboard choices are very metadependant as usual but my board has kinda stayed the same for a while now. Cards I could not live without but will not decide how many of each you should play:

Crop Rotation
Bojuka Bog
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Ethersworn Canonist
Enlightened Tutor
Rest in Peace
Oblivion Ring
Krosan Grip
Pithing Needle

I'm doing this from memory, but I believe that my list went something like this:


//MB:
1x Plains
2x Forest
3x Savannah
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wasteland
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Tropical Island

1x Birds of Paradise
3x Noble Hierarch
3x Mother of Runes
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Sylvan Library
2x Quasali Pridemage
3x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Mangara of Corondor
1x Rafiq of the Many
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Aven Mindcensor

// SB:
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Serenity
1 Warmth
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Choke


The tutors really pay off in Bydgoszcz, as usually 1 in 2 games I find myself tutoring for Warmth, Canonist, RiP or Serenity after SB (yes, Burn and Affinity quite well represented and I get almost a free win with those cards).

Mindcensor isn't all that great vs combo but help simultanousely locking out some grindy games (mirror).
Rafiq caught 2 of my opponents with their pants down and won games that I probably would have otherwise lost.
I'm really on the fence with Mangara. He's almost always a 2for1 and kicks SnT where it really hurts but he is just so slow.

Regarding the Shaman, I see the 2 Oozes in your list but nevertheless don't you find yourself sometimes wanting to use its :b: or not being able to get mana of him to often?

I was wondering what kind of things other maverick players do against stone blade, as my meta is filled with that deck and I very rarely beat it. Show and tell decks are another persistent problem. I've gotten there with karakas, pyroblast, and oblivion ring- but game one can be a stretch. If anyone has any suggestions as to how I can improve those matchups, I'd appreciate it. Here's my current list:

3 Punishing Fire
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
2 Sylvan Library
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Wasteland
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Karakas
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

I'm not opposed to going back to straight G/W if it's helpful. Honestly, the deck hasn't been performing very well for me, and is very unforgiving of mistakes. One mistake can often cost you the game I've found. I might just shelve it, or try to get as much practice as I can in to up my win percentage. Last sunday in a SCG IQ I went 3-3, beating Goblins, Bant, and Lands, and losing to Storm, Stoneblade, and Team America. Against stoneblade, he swords to plowshared my knight and had a batterskull + restoration angel which flickered his stoneforge to find a jitte which pretty much sealed the game. I don't remember the other game. Against storm, I had nothing game one but probably should have mulliganed into teeg since I knew what he was playing already. Game 2 I made the mistake of tapping my Karakas with my thalia out and he abrupt decayed it. I didn't know storm played that card, and was expecting chain of vapor instead. If I had killed his lotus petal with qasali pridemage to shut off his third mana source or kept the Karakas untapped I probably would have won that game. Against team america he overwhelmed me with card advantage game one with a Bob out and I couldn't find a swords or punishing fire. I had two huge knights, but two baleful strix prevented me from attacking profitably. Eventually he landed jace and it was game over. Game two I kept a loose hand with horizon canopy and wasteland as my only lands. He wastelanded my canopy, I wastelanded his bayou back. We both entered top deck mode for lands and I proceeded to go 4 turns without finding a land. By then he had drawn 2 lands and was way ahead with a goyf. It didn't take much more than the goyf to finish me off. So all and all a disappointing tournament, but with some fixable mistakes on my part. I'm hoping to eventually get a better handle on the deck and see where it takes me.

@Ecstatic_Conch: On top of this page I posted a list with a black splash for Thoughtseize, Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay. I have made a few more games and a couple of changes. I think it is very good.

Considering the matchups you lost:
Thoughtseize is amazing in general (great vs. Stoneblade, too), but a turn 1 Discard spell obviously helps most against Combo decks. T1 Discard, T2 Thalia/Teeg is often game because they can't find a solution for the hate bear AND recover from the loss of their best card before you find more disruption or kill them.
DR Shaman is just better than Hierarch in every matchup. Against Stoneblade it eats away their Snapcaster targets, maybe a Lingering Souls here and there, and it is just another nice threat in general for when the game stalls. Against Storm it makes Cabal Ritual bad and it becomes much harder for them to win with Past in Flames.
Decay over Swords could have helped you in the Stoneblade matchup by killing the Jitte.

I would build it currently like this:

2 Savannah
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sigarda, Host of Hero

4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Sylvan Library
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jittens

SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 3 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog

Wasn't maverick built to beat stoneblade and RUG Delver? You must be doing something wrong. ..

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I had nothing game one but probably should have mulliganed into teeg since I knew what he was playing already.

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ANT builds without Burning Wish are typically straight up dead to Teeg (or, hilariously, Extract) game one, so that's definitely a decent plan.
Abrupt Decay is nowadays found in basically all Storm sideboards (as well as Elves if they're playing black which most non-budget lists are) because it answers Counterbalance so well and makes the Miracles matchup not a huge bitch to play.