Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vicar in a tutu
Jund and Burn are tier 2 decks, but Miracles is the top dog. If that is a bad matchup, why play the deck? EDIT: No snarkyness intended. As a former Imperial Painter player considering reassembling the deck, I'm genuinly curious.
And here I thought I was about the only Painter in Norway! Anyway, Miracles was a very good matchup before Mentor hit the list, but nowadays it's a little worse. I'd still say were slighly favored (60-40 ish), but it's not checked completely, especially if the Miracles player is a good one.
Meta-wise Painter should be in good position atm because a good deal of Moon-suspecible decks are quite popular as of late, besides merfolk. However sometimes there are still some Tier 2 dudes on the other side of the table, but too rare to alter the deck against it. So, shit happens, I guess.
Next time, Jack, next time..
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Is grixis painter is a solution? with tezzeret?
Yesterday at BoM tournament, we saw a grixis painter. He did 6-1-1 after 8 round. He finished out of top 8 (9/136 players).
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Looks like a gentleman named Benjamin Hatch took 16th at SCG Philly today. Looks like a classic mono red build. Nice job Ben!
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=99302
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vicar in a tutu
Jund and Burn are tier 2 decks, but Miracles is the top dog. If that is a bad matchup, why play the deck? EDIT: No snarkyness intended. As a former Imperial Painter player considering reassembling the deck, I'm genuinly curious.
Miracles is a tough match-up, but it's not unwinnable. I really think cards that cause card disadvantage really hurt us in this match-up. I also think this match-up varies a lot depending on the specifics of the build you are playing.
Also Congrats Benjamin Hatch, always good to see a Painter do well.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I will also say Congrats to Ben Hatch. Is he someone who is on this thread?
Looking at his list, I would be curious as to how much he relied on Ensnaring Bridge. He plays three of them in in main and a fourth in the board. There was only one Storm player in the top 16 and with Eldrazi gaining in popularity so much, I'm thinking that the stock for that card has gone up tremendously. I have been play-testing that match-up a lot and, admittedly, it may not be as good as I thought it was. If they hit the chalice on turn one or two it can be tough. However, they really don't have an answer for the bridge other than if they have Endbringer and can ping us to death. I'm thinking I will also try going up to 3 Ensnaring Bridge for a while and see how that plays. Jack, how was the main deck EE? That also seems like it would be a good idea right now.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Dan for the event itself there aren't really any conclusions I can draw since I got destroyed so early. Ee did nab two eidolons that's it. But from play testing the two weeks prior in leagues online and stuff it was really nice, especially with eldrazi.
For people talking about the miracles matchup, it's still favorable just less so now with mentor. I didn't know that they had any surgicals in the side these days and wasn't expecting it. Had I been, it wouldn't have been to hard to set up a welder first. Mentor removed the beat down lines once stone was gone and ten turns of topping for me couldn't find one of the two jayas or a recruiter to burn them out. Will definitely be prepared to play around surgical from now on if the game state is slanted in our favor
Other than that the meta is transforming nicely for us. Look at day two lists, almost all are favorable matchups. The story is still the same as it has always been for us: survive the early rounds filled with trash to make it to the usual decks later on
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
woha: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19716
7 (!) times Eldrazi within TOP32 of SCG Philly... didn't expect such a high number of high finishes
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I played ratchet bomb over E.E. as a personal preference but I can say it was very good for me, and E.E. would have been about the same, maybe a little worse against merfolk. Bridge was also great for me all day. Unfortunately I also didn't do very well ending 5-4. But at least I got to cash modern the next day
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Played Painter at SCG Philly to a 6-3 finish just missing Day Two. Here is a link to my tournament report:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-at-SCG-Philly
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Went 4-5 with Painter at Philly.
Wins were against Storm, No Show, RUG Delver, and BUG...Control?
Losses were to Miracles, Infect, RUG Delver, Jund, and Goblins.
The 4 of the 5 losses were in 3 games. Goblins was, as usual, problematic.
Never saw an eldrazi deck all day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicar in a tutu Jund and Burn are tier 2 decks, but Miracles is the top dog. If that is a bad matchup, why play the deck? EDIT: No snarkyness intended. As a former Imperial Painter player considering reassembling the deck, I'm genuinly curious.
My loss to Miracles was my own fault. I won G1 with an early moon, protected the painter and combo'd quick. G2 I hid behind a bridge, but was unable to get anything going and was beaten down by monk tokens eventually, even after EEing them. G3 I kept a loose hand with plenty of gas, but with 13 minutes left and a very... deliberate opponent, I gambled on being able to combo out quickly - I didn't draw the mana and lost to eventual monk beatdowns. Notably, after winning G1 with early moon + combo, my opponent was clearly unfamiliar with what I was doing, as in G2+3, he fetched nonbasics first.
Similarly, my losses to Infect, RUG and Jund were in G3s where I was not able to assemble the lock out or combo in time
The only match that actually felt unwinnable was goblins, though bridge and sphere of law were great.
I definitely thought warmth out of the side was great, especially against storm.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
biglongjohns
In relation to the not liking one mana spells in the face of Chalice, I run two Hedge-Mages on the side that I just bring in for my 2 Tutors if I know I'm playing a deck running Chalice. But I like the versatility it gives you game one to either play a turn 2 Moon or Bridge depending on what you need at the moment after you find out what you're playing.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tired_papasmurf
In relation to the not liking one mana spells in the face of Chalice, I run two Hedge-Mages on the side that I just bring in for my 2 Tutors if I know I'm playing a deck running Chalice. But I like the versatility it gives you game one to either play a turn 2 Moon or Bridge depending on what you need at the moment after you find out what you're playing.
Yeah that's a good point. If I go back to playing white again then I could just up the amount of ETB artifact creatures. I prefer Manic Vandal because I have played Hedge-Mage before and sometimes found myself in a position where I didn't have either two Mountains or two Plains when I needed the ability. Manic Vandal is a safer bet. Plus, if I'm really worried about an enchantment I can usually Painter+blast it away. I'm also a fan of Viashino Heretic for the recurring artifact destruction ability, but he can sometimes get killed before he becomes active.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Hi guys, I was the one who made 16th. Lost my round 15 win and in to top 8. I hadn't played a legacy tournament or much paper magic the past year or so but decided to make the road trip to hang out with some friends and had a blast playing the deck. I was definitely a bit rusty and the list probably isn't optimized as I hadn't really play tested at all but it seems pretty well positioned when Endrazi and Lands are the two most popular day 2 decks (although I never got to play against Eldrazi). Here's a quick rundown of my matches.
Tin Fins (2-1)
Lands (2-0)
Miracles (2-1)
TES (2-1)
Infect (2-0)
Sneak and Show (2-1)
Grixis Delver (1-2) [1st overall]
ANT (1-2) [14th overall]
Dredge (2-0)
Miracles (2-1)
Infect (1-2) [12th overall]
BUG Delver (2-1)
Esper Mentor (2-0)
RW Death and Taxes (2-0)
4 Color Delver (1-2) [4th overall]
All the matches I lost felt winnable and I think if I had played tighter and had a better developed SB plan I could have gotten there. Red Delver decks are harder than I remember them being mainly because Blood Moon isn't a hard lock and Ensnaring Bridge isn't great against Young Pyromancer. I really feel like I needed more than 4 burn spells in the board, especially for this match up. There were games where I had lands locked with a Moon but my opponent already had Deathrite, Young Pyro, tokens, Grim Lavamancer and/or Delver in play and all I needed was a Pyroclasm to stabilize which I never saw. Will definitely add at least one more to the board.
The loss to ANT was super close. I mulled to 5 in the first two games, won the first on the back of a turn 1 moon which my opponent almost comboed off through. Game 2 I had two Thorns but bricked on lands or any other disruption giving him time to Decay them and go off. Game 3 I misplayed by blasting some of his cantrips during his combo turn when I knew he had an Infernal Tutor in hand AND had already played a land. The odds were still in his favor, but it would have been possible for him to brick and draw a land, nerfing his tutor.
Against Infect I made a misplay on a complicated turn that involved me having to decide between blasting an infect creature, or his basic forest with a Blood Moon in play. I chose the creature and got punished as he had a Vines. Game 3 I mulled and kept a sketchy hand that never saw another land.
Some thoughts:
-Magus wasn't amazing. I boarded him out a lot and didn't play many of the match ups where he's good (BUG, Deathblade, Eldrazi, although I did play Infect twice). I could see cutting his numbers a bit
-Ensnaring Bridge was essential in some of my wins (Tin Fins, Sneak and Show, Dredge) and mediocre to abysmal in many other match ups. I think it's a necessary evil and still want 4 in the 75. I may go for a 2/2 split
-I may cut a blast or move it to the board. Seven was a bit much sometimes, although having max blasts does help tremendously against some decks (particularly Miracles)
-Revoker was fantastic and shines in some of the toughest match ups (Sneak and Show, Miracles, Storm). I'm considering putting a second in the main
Most memorable moments:
-Punting against Lands by tunnel visioning that I needed to stick Blood Moon when the mana I used to do that could have just been used to activate Grindstone and win. Then still winning the match after choosing the Gamble targets twice in a row. My opponent had some choice words and was supremely unpleasant to play against (unlike all my other opponents who were friendly and awesome). He also happens to be an SCG grinder whose name I shall redact.
-My first game against Storm in the round I lost was such an intense nail biter. My opponent almost went off through Blood Moon by playing LED, cracking for black, discarding a Past in Flames and using his Blood Mooned lands to cast it's flashback. He just barely fizzled after casting tons of cantrips and Ad Nauseum
-Killing my second Miracles opponent with a lone Grindstone the old fashioned way after locking him out of white mana with a Blood Moon and blasts on his only two plains. He ultimated Jace but I had the mill kill with only like 5 cards left in my deck.
-My BUG Delver opponent playing Chill, so I played a Painter naming red to lock him out of casting multiple spells
-Against RW Death and Taxes with a Mother of Runes protecting a Revoker on Grindstone, I blast a Jitte then use Welder to switch the Jitte and Revoker (first EOT which he protects with Mom, then my turn to go for the kill)
Deck is awesome. Legacy is awesome. Makes me want to start playing more often.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DoomPenguin
Hi guys, I was the one who made 16th. Lost my round 15 win and in to top 8. I hadn't played a legacy tournament or much paper magic the past year or so but decided to make the road trip to hang out with some friends and had a blast playing the deck. I was definitely a bit rusty and the list probably isn't optimized as I hadn't really play tested at all but it seems pretty well positioned when Endrazi and Lands are the two most popular day 2 decks (although I never got to play against Eldrazi). Here's a quick rundown of my matches.
Tin Fins (2-1)
Lands (2-0)
Miracles (2-1)
TES (2-1)
Infect (2-0)
Sneak and Show (2-1)
Grixis Delver (1-2) [1st overall]
ANT (1-2) [14th overall]
Dredge (2-0)
Miracles (2-1)
Infect (1-2) [12th overall]
BUG Delver (2-1)
Esper Mentor (2-0)
RW Death and Taxes (2-0)
4 Color Delver (1-2) [4th overall]
All the matches I lost felt winnable and I think if I had played tighter and had a better developed SB plan I could have gotten there. Red Delver decks are harder than I remember them being mainly because Blood Moon isn't a hard lock and Ensnaring Bridge isn't great against Young Pyromancer. I really feel like I needed more than 4 burn spells in the board, especially for this match up. There were games where I had lands locked with a Moon but my opponent already had Deathrite, Young Pyro, tokens, Grim Lavamancer and/or Delver in play and all I needed was a Pyroclasm to stabilize which I never saw. Will definitely add at least one more to the board.
The loss to ANT was super close. I mulled to 5 in the first two games, won the first on the back of a turn 1 moon which my opponent almost comboed off through. Game 2 I had two Thorns but bricked on lands or any other disruption giving him time to Decay them and go off. Game 3 I misplayed by blasting some of his cantrips during his combo turn when I knew he had an Infernal Tutor in hand AND had already played a land. The odds were still in his favor, but it would have been possible for him to brick and draw a land, nerfing his tutor.
Against Infect I made a misplay on a complicated turn that involved me having to decide between blasting an infect creature, or his basic forest with a Blood Moon in play. I chose the creature and got punished as he had a Vines. Game 3 I mulled and kept a sketchy hand that never saw another land.
Some thoughts:
-Magus wasn't amazing. I boarded him out a lot and didn't play many of the match ups where he's good (BUG, Deathblade, Eldrazi, although I did play Infect twice). I could see cutting his numbers a bit
-Ensnaring Bridge was essential in some of my wins (Tin Fins, Sneak and Show, Dredge) and mediocre to abysmal in many other match ups. I think it's a necessary evil and still want 4 in the 75. I may go for a 2/2 split
-I may cut a blast or move it to the board. Seven was a bit much sometimes, although having max blasts does help tremendously against some decks (particularly Miracles)
-Revoker was fantastic and shines in some of the toughest match ups (Sneak and Show, Miracles, Storm). I'm considering putting a second in the main
Most memorable moments:
-Punting against Lands by tunnel visioning that I needed to stick Blood Moon when the mana I used to do that could have just been used to activate Grindstone and win. Then still winning the match after choosing the Gamble targets twice in a row. My opponent had some choice words and was supremely unpleasant to play against (unlike all my other opponents who were friendly and awesome). He also happens to be an SCG grinder whose name I shall redact.
-My first game against Storm in the round I lost was such an intense nail biter. My opponent almost went off through Blood Moon by playing LED, cracking for black, discarding a Past in Flames and using his Blood Mooned lands to cast it's flashback. He just barely fizzled after casting tons of cantrips and Ad Nauseum
-Killing my second Miracles opponent with a lone Grindstone the old fashioned way after locking him out of white mana with a Blood Moon and blasts on his only two plains. He ultimated Jace but I had the mill kill with only like 5 cards left in my deck.
-My BUG Delver opponent playing Chill, so I played a Painter naming red to lock him out of casting multiple spells
-Against RW Death and Taxes with a Mother of Runes protecting a Revoker on Grindstone, I blast a Jitte then use Welder to switch the Jitte and Revoker (first EOT which he protects with Mom, then my turn to go for the kill)
Deck is awesome. Legacy is awesome. Makes me want to start playing more often.
Glad to see you in the top16. You've made me try to give the mono red version another shot. If you can remember, what did you side in for miracles and sneak and show? For sneak and show did you bring in the 4 tormods crypt to try and 3 card combo or were you strictly going on the beat down plan?
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DoomPenguin
Some thoughts:
-Magus wasn't amazing. I boarded him out a lot and didn't play many of the match ups where he's good (BUG, Deathblade, Eldrazi, although I did play Infect twice). I could see cutting his numbers a bit
-Ensnaring Bridge was essential in some of my wins (Tin Fins, Sneak and Show, Dredge) and mediocre to abysmal in many other match ups. I think it's a necessary evil and still want 4 in the 75. I may go for a 2/2 split
-I may cut a blast or move it to the board. Seven was a bit much sometimes, although having max blasts does help tremendously against some decks (particularly Miracles)
-Revoker was fantastic and shines in some of the toughest match ups (Sneak and Show, Miracles, Storm). I'm considering putting a second in the main
A quick look at the decks floating around on this forum atm and you'll see these changes are made by most. However I believe most play 2 Bridges main and none side, and I agree that more may be needed in the board going forward.
Nevertheless, you did a very good job even when a lil' bit rusty, congratulations!
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SDBobPlissken
Glad to see you in the top16. You've made me try to give the mono red version another shot. If you can remember, what did you side in for miracles and sneak and show? For sneak and show did you bring in the 4 tormods crypt to try and 3 card combo or were you strictly going on the beat down plan?
Thanks!
For Miracles I brought in the 4 Thorns and second Revoker cutting Bridges and Magus. It's possible I should have left some number of Bridges in as the two games I lost were to Mentor + token beats but I feel like this is a match up where you don't want to dump your hand, making Bridge ineffective at stopping anything except Entreat. I think the best plan is to try and disrupt your opponents mana with Thorn and Moon, particularly to choke them on white, and carefully decide when to make your stand and try to combo. It's also very reasonable to just naturally Grindstone them to death, especially game one where they likely will have no way to remove it from play. Knowing when to use Blasts is also very tough as sometimes you want to try and aggressively color screw your opponent while other times they should be saved to counter Jace or a removal spell. I don't think this is a bad match up for Painter, but it might be the most challenging to play tightly.
Sneak and Show on the other hand is a terrible match up that comes down a lot to drawing Ensnaring Bridge. I brought in 4 Crypts, second Revoker, and fourth Bridge taking out pretty much all the Moons because of how bad they are. I toyed with bringing in Thorns but their combo is pretty cheap so I'm not sure how disruptive they'd actually be. Might try it next time. I think going for the 3 card combo with Crypt is a much better plan than going only for beats/burn. Games 2 and 3 they will side in ways to interact with your board (Echoing Truth, Kozilek's Return, Ashen Rider etc.) so you can't just hide behind a Bridge for infinite turns nipping them for 1 or 2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morcrux
A quick look at the decks floating around on this forum atm and you'll see these changes are made by most. However I believe most play 2 Bridges main and none side, and I agree that more may be needed in the board going forward.
Nevertheless, you did a very good job even when a lil' bit rusty, congratulations!
Yeah it has been a while since I'd even logged on here. Should've peaked around the forum for ideas before the tournament.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
@doompenguin I have played all the flavours of painter over the last 3 or 4 years. I have never boarded my thorns or spheres against them.
It just seems so much worse if they get a counterbalance down. Among many other reasons.
Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Have to agree with mcbain on that.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Huge tournament this weekend with a new Painter list.
I'll let you know how it goes!
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mcbain
@doompenguin I have played all the flavours of painter over the last 3 or 4 years. I have never boarded my thorns or spheres against them.
It just seems so much worse if they get a counterbalance down. Among many other reasons.
Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NathanS2k
Have to agree with mcbain on that.
I will wholeheartedly admit that my SBing may have been incorrect. I didn't really have a good plan formulated ahead of time (for most match ups) and was kind of doing it on the fly from what I remembered from playing the deck a while back.
I may also have fallen into the old "results oriented thinking" trap as I won my first match against Miracles almost solely on the back of a turn 1 Thorn on the play in game 3. In the other round against Miracles my opponent burned a Force of Will on a Thorn so again I got the impression that they must be at least somewhat afraid of that card.
I would be very interested to hear others sideboard strategies not just for Miracles but for other match ups as I definitely think it was my main weakness. I'll have to peruse the earlier pages of this thread when I have some time.
Sadly I don't know when the next time I'll get to play some Legacy is but after coming so close I want to try and make another run, maybe at the next SCG Legacy event.
