[DTB] Vial Goblins

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Originally Posted by shadowhunter483

I edited a list I posted earlier.

Insert List Here

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That's my list exactly, except I maindeck stingscrouger over incinerators (and my incinerators are in the board). I was trying to run two ports up until yesterday, but I got mana screwed too often so they're out now.

I went 2-2 at my local legacy tournament (when i ran ports)
Wins vs Solidarity and ANT, and loses vs False Cure Stompy and Zoo
I should have won the Zoo matchup (it was 1-2) but I got mana screwed and made a bad play game 3.

Pyrostatic pillar were my saving grace vs both Storm matches, but I got lucky vs Solidarity, landing 2 uncountered pillars in the final match.

I've modified my sideboard a bit.

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [PLC] Stingscourger
SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 2 [MI] Goblin Tinkerer

Hello all! Couple of years off MTG and it looks like there are some new interesting goblins out.

I have used to run a mono red build including

4x mogg fanatic
4x lackey
4x warchief
4x ringleader
4x matron
4x gempalm incinerator
4x piledriver
3x sgc
1x tinkerer

4x vial

4x port
4x waste
8x fetch
mountains


Now it seems Goblin Chieftain, Warren Instigator and Stingscourger are in monored main decks. So, I took out 4 Fanatics and 3 Incinerators, Tinkerer and SGC and threw in 4 Chieftain, 4 Instigator and one Stingscourger.

But what I have tested so far I am missing very much 1cc fanatics and it almost seems that the new deck is worse. What is your opinion here? Are these new cards so useful at all? I think without fanatics the deck is much slower and without Vial or Lackey in the opening hand looks like autoloss many times.

Fanatic is horrible after the m10 rules change... you need multiple stingscourger, and unless you run into a ton of stax, tinkerer is best left in the sideboard, probably should drop the fetches, canadian thresh will rape you

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Originally Posted by Gibsonmac

Fanatic is horrible after the m10 rules change... you need multiple stingscourger, and unless you run into a ton of stax, tinkerer is best left in the sideboard, probably should drop the fetches, canadian thresh will rape you

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the only thing fanatic doesnt do anymore is block a 2/2 and kill it. It is still a resonable choice

The other thing Fanatic doesn't do any more is get into combat with an x/1 and kill it, while also throwing itself at another x/1 to kill it.

Creatures have also become bigger better and cheaper. Its hard for fanatic to kill anything these days. Take zoo, fanatic doesn't kill anything in the deck.

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Originally Posted by shadowhunter483

Creatures have also become bigger better and cheaper. Its hard for fanatic to kill anything these days. Take zoo, fanatic doesn't kill anything in the deck.

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Grim Lavamancer wants to have a word with you.

But yeah, Fanatic doesn't do much these days. He's good against Dredge, though.

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Originally Posted by Nidd

Grim Lavamancer wants to have a word with you.

But yeah, Fanatic doesn't do much these days. He's good against Dredge, though.

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along woth nacatl and kird ape after you wasteland their turn 1 taiga. I ran fanatic as a 2 of in my last tournament since there is a larger presence of dredge there. They proved useful in many other games as well, not just against dredge

If tarmogoyf used to be +1/+1 over what it is now, and then it became what it is now, would you say it's bad? Obviously comparisons with the past are not a valid way to establish if a card is good or not.

Fanatic is still good. It serves a useful function in the mirror, it's a goblin, it costs R, and then it hates dredge. I'm curious: back in the old days, why did anybody walk into fanatic 2:1s? It seems like it'd almost always be better to just take a creature stall, unless you're so far ahead that after getting 2:1'd you're still the clear victor.

Let's have the Fanatic discussion again! .... It's garbage, it was good a long while back, but sucked even before the M10 rules changes. Now the metagame may change and Fanatic may be playable again, but not now.

What I was really wondering about: How is Soaring Seacliff doing in testing? I have little time to test it out, but the idea seems very solid actually.

Merry xmas everyone! I can't find wastelands for a decent price recently. What can I do to make my goblins deck suck less? I've been trying to go through the 20 Mountains + 4 SSG and it's doing ok. Not really sure if I'd be better running burrows, but Instigator t1 is awesome. Any other ideas?

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Originally Posted by Cyrus

Merry xmas everyone! I can't find wastelands for a decent price recently. What can I do to make my goblins deck suck less? I've been trying to go through the 20 Mountains + 4 SSG and it's doing ok. Not really sure if I'd be better running burrows, but Instigator t1 is awesome. Any other ideas?

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If youre not running the mana distruption package, i suggest that you run the balls-to-the-wall version. you might wanna consider Goblin Guide and Goblin Goon on that.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus

Merry xmas everyone! I can't find wastelands for a decent price recently. What can I do to make my goblins deck suck less? I've been trying to go through the 20 Mountains + 4 SSG and it's doing ok. Not really sure if I'd be better running burrows, but Instigator t1 is awesome. Any other ideas?

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I would test out the 4 soaring seacliffs over the 4 SSG. Having a t1 instigator is okay, but people have formulated their decks to answer first turn lackey for years, so I'm not really sure if the t1 instigator is really that great at the loss of card advantage and the somewhat rare times it comes up. Plus, 20 lands (regardless of their being 24 mana sources) is sort of playing with fire. Seacliffs surprises close to everyone, as it is a crappy zendikar common. Does this card even see play in standard/block? t1 lackey t2 cliffs is the dream play obv, but more importantly it gives you roughly 10 ways to answer a creature on turn 2 to clear the way for lackey: gempalm, stingscourger, and seacliffs. I don't think I'd go the balls to the walls approach, as I believe the standard build minus wastelands will still be better than that approach. Goblin Guide is really bad in this deck and Goblin Goon is subpar in today's metagame, sb at best for wily people.

Hopefully my message is coherent, It's 3:30am here and I need some sleep. I might come back to look at it tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus

Merry xmas everyone! I can't find wastelands for a decent price recently. What can I do to make my goblins deck suck less? I've been trying to go through the 20 Mountains + 4 SSG and it's doing ok. Not really sure if I'd be better running burrows, but Instigator t1 is awesome. Any other ideas?

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Buy wastelands, it really makes the deck powerful in ways other cards just cannot... try ports if you don't feel like shelling out $15 a piece for uncommons

Alternatively, borrow them. Legacy communities tend to be pretty tight-knit. If you are unable to borrow some from somebody then your metagame is probably fairly underdeveloped and playing a suboptiimal build will not be the end of the world when few others have optimal builds.

I went 5-1-1 in a local tournament last week, placing 2nd overall. I drew round 1 against Zoo (nice guy, but a new player who didn't really know any of the cards and played slow). I lost the finals against UBG Countertop in a tough 1-2 match where my hastily made sideboard killed my chances.

My mono-red build is:

4 Lackey
4 Aether Vial
4 Warren Instigator
4 Warchief
4 Chieftain
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
3 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Shortcutter (Worked ok, but should be Sharpshooter, can't find him yet)
3 Siege Gang
3 Piledriver

4 Wasteland
18 Mountain

This hyper-aggressive build worked great for me, outpacing a mono-blue control and a BWG control deck, both of which just couldn't stabilize in time. I realize the strangeness of not playing Incinerators but honestly... I never missed them. Maybe that is very strange. I learned that the sideboard definitely needs Vexing Shusher for my local meta, and that Magus of the Moon is garbage.

To recap, matches were:

RWG Zoo: 1-1 Draw
Mono U Control: 2-0 Win
BWG Planeswalker control: 2-0 Win
Homebrew Boros Aggro: 2-1 Win
Merfolk w/ Jitte: 2-1 Win *toughest match, Shusher would have helped a ton*
Finals: UBG Countertop: 1-2 Loss *Shusher probably would have saved my ass here too*

Usually Shusher isn't a good idea. 4 Vials + Lackeys + Instigators usually are enough, and Shusher requires a huge mana investment.

I won a small local tournament (16ppl) with this monoR list:

4 Port Rishadan
4 Wasteland
14 mountain

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Piledriver
2 Mogg Fanatic
4 Aether Vial
3 Gelmpalm Incinerator
3 Stingscrouger
2 Warren Instigator
2 SGC
2 Goblin Chieftain

60 cards

SB:
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Thorn of Amethist
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Goblin King
1 Goblin Pyromancer
1 Anarchy

Well SB was junk but i was suposed to play survival but can't find Tarmo in time. I would have played 2 Anarchy, 4 Thorn, 3 Relic 1 Liege and 1 tinkerer instead.

4 rounds then top 4:
1st: Dreadstill with CB: 2-0 Win
2nd: ANT : 1-2 Lost
3rd: Landstill: 2-1 Win
4th: CB Bant: 2-0 Win
Top4: 1/2ANT same as 2nd round: 2-0 Win
Final: Merfolk: 2-0 Win

Goblin is so good against CB. Stingscourger is anazing against Dreadnought. ANT is the hardest MU, i've been lucky. Instigator is a good add but not much, chieftain is a must, i'll add one maybe. Merfolk is really the best MU, in the final i made a lot of small mistakes but won easily.

MonoR Gob is really my fav build for this archetype.

Ive seen a few lists recently that are back up to 4 piledrivers and are winning. I highly doubt they are winning often on purely the backs of piledrivers, but it seems interesting that a few people have been running the full playset and doing well with them.