Except that it isn't. Should actually be okay against Zoo and all other random agressive decks, but would still lose to Merfolk.
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Except that it isn't. Should actually be okay against Zoo and all other random agressive decks, but would still lose to Merfolk.
@hitman
I like your list and your arguments.
True, Humility is just a bomb and I would never go below 2. Humility just gives us sustainability compared to wrath.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitman82
Well, I will try Firespout for exact these arguments. But you have to fetch red and double white now. Before the black splash was only for EE or the board.Quote:
Second, I think Wrath of God is obsolete. While it does handle Progenitus, so does Humility at the same cost. However, Humility provides an effect that allows us to have the upper hand on board almost all the time. Wrath of God just wipes a board temporarily for a buttload of mana. With cards like Daze and Spell Pierce out there, we can't play Wrath of God effectively. We're either taking too much damage before it resolves or it doesn't even resolve at all. The double white casting cost is prohibitive against Wasteland decks, too. Stifle can prevent us from getting basics when we need them and with Elspeth and Humility in the deck, another double white spell is too much.
That is the way to go!!!Quote:
Third, six "Swords" are a must right now. Merfolk simply outclasses us. With every deck pushing the envelope on aggression, we have to have the tools to deal with the threats now because if we accumulate too much damage, our options will be severely cut down by the mid-game. We can't afford to take an extra beat to wait a turn to pop the Explosives to get value out of it or use Firespout to two or three-for-one. If we're cornered into using the cards that develop us card advantage for one-for-ones, we're probably dead because we're running so inefficiently.
4 or 5 win conditions....hm.. Im fine with 4 but I understand your point.
And yes, Jace is awful.
I have some questions on your list:
1. Why 3 Wastelands and no CoW? Maybe we can reduce the landcount to 23 and go to 1-2 Wastelands.
2. Fact or Fiction or Top? In a fast metagame, top seems the best choice.
23 lands isn't poor??Quote:
Originally Posted by i_need_the_extra_turns
FoF, in my experience showed to be "agressive" it goes for the answer and is out of chalice range. But top + BS + fetch sound good too.
How did it work?? Is nice onother win cond??Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbid-
Well, yet to be determined how effective it really is, but as a 1-of, it was fine. I'll let you guys know after tomorrow :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenCid
Basically, it:
-Shines in control mirror, disrupting part of your opponent's mana source (or God forbid I see the mirror on Sunday, another Factory, etc). If it reaches Ultimate... yeah.
-Kind of a "Meekstone" effect on an opposing creature, say, Goyf.
-Uncounterable Lightning Helix when you need it.
Again, it remains to be seen how effective it can be through X rounds, but it's more of a utility card, imo, than a win condition.
I like ajani V in a non wish version mostly because it's ife source. I found that wish to pulse of the fields saves matches and i don't want to loose the life gain cutting wishes for ajani. I mention wishes because is the only card i could cut the another is FOF but...i'm not sure. Maybe an 1 FoF, 1 AV, 2 Wish configuration could be good.
On the other hand Red splash doesn't give us great wish targets except pyroblast or REB that i'm not sure if they are such a card to wish for them.
I split Top 4 at the Meandeck Open today, going 4-1-1 in the Swiss and winning in the first pairing of Top 8. A quick summary:
Round 1: Win 2-0 against terri-bad Goblins.
Round 2: Lose 0-2 against Merfolk (never drew a single Firespout or red Blast, looks like this matchup will still be a monkey on my back)
Round 3: Win 2-1 against ANT.
Round 4: Win 2-0 against Zoo.
Round 5: Win 2-1 against Zoo.
Round 6: ID in to the Top 8.
Top 8: Win 2-1 against Pox.
Lots of schoolwork to do tonight, so a report will be up sometime tomorrow. Decklist is up here at least.
Edit: I like procrastinating.
Mark, what a nice list :p
I'd change those 2 humilities all the time with 2 counterspells, and I'm still trying to fit in jace to up the cc3 count for counterbalance, so that I can fully abuse of it even in the stax/stacker/enchantress Mu, not only vs combo/zoo/burn/dreadstill/mirror. I'm testing the tolaria -> karakas tech and... it's tecchish :) It does mess up a little the manabase, but it's worth having a uncounterable answer to iona (Or, as we call her in Italy, Iona la Porcona or Iona la Troiona, that is to say that big b****), which also vanishes Marit Lage and gaddock as well. Pretty narrow indeed, but still worth.
Surprised you lost to merfolk with 3 helixes (2 humilities) 6 swords 3 rebs 3 firespout 3 EE... O.O
If you're curving out your deck for CB so it's effective in more than just the standard combo/burn/whatever matchups, why not play it maindeck?Quote:
Originally Posted by gustha
I would then just play dreadstill/countertop/whatever... And I still like EE more than counterbalance... Also, I'm not force to adapt the curve maindeck so I can have all my tools, while post-side I can balance the curve as better as the Mu requires, so that every Mu has is "personal" curve (more 0-1 for ant, more 0-1-2 for burn and the like, more 3-4 cc for enchantress/staxx etc.)
Haha, it would have helped to draw the Firespouts/REB :frown:Quote:
Originally Posted by gustha
I wasn't happy about that post-matchup, but you really can't do much about it. I also probably tried to play much too aggressively (understandable with 11 spot removal + 3 sweeps) against the deck, and like an idiot I kept the Standstills in there to apply pressure (major punt there, as I am used to 3x Decree in the main). Turns out he just had another slow rolling draw, and it really screwed me.
I agree with what you said about Humility --> Counterspell. Maybe, MAYBE Humility to the SB, but yeah, I wasn't too impressed with it yesterday in the Swiss (saved my ass against Abyssal Persecutor wtfpox though), and I even boarded it out against Zoo all 5 games I played against them. Much appreciation for the list :tongue:
I've cut Humility a while ago and never looked back.
If I were to play it again it'd get a MD slot, though, cause people tend to board in Grips etc. G2, diminishing it's value.
Konsultant once even suggested boarding it out against green decks.
I can agree with that, I talked to Geoff a while ago and he did talk about how you lose a small percentage of your matchups. I suppose a good example was losing to Merfolk with Humility on the board g1, that was embarassing and Humility does very little in that matchup to begin with. But I understand your logic for g2, it was just a suggestion against the decks that this list isn't tuned to beat well without a little help. I myself agree that the existence of Krosan Grip makes Humility lose a lot of its value after g1, and I boarded them out against Zoo and I don't regret the decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
I've been doing the same for a while, and thus why I'm not super into humility. It's hard to destroy a sorcery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbid-
I think a build I had some success with a month or so ago packed 2/2 humility/wrath and then boarded out humility against the format g2/3 for spot removal. If they're boarding in grips, they gotta take out some speed to do it, generally speaking.
Although I agree with the opinions above I still play a single copy of humility MD because it is so hard for some decks (G1) to deal with. It also stops CiP effects and that's something that is very important to me (especially against gobs).
It goes out against decks playing green though.
I think if you are going to play Humility you have to play Decree. In your match against Merfolk Morbid, you would then have X more outs after it resolved, rather than just looking for firespout.
I don't know what you pull out, but Humility + Decree just go together.
Hello, after some testings I'm coming up with the following list:
1 Tropical Island
3 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tolaria West
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
2 Wasteland
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
4 Engineered Explosives
2 Wrath of God
2 Humility
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Decree of Justice
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Cunning Wish
// Sideboard:
SB: 1 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Dismantle Blow
SB: 1 Pulse of the Fields
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Diabolic edict
SB: 2 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Ravenous Trap
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
My explanations:
You all boys will ask and tropical for? for the fourth colour, which makes EE even more broken and now we can destroy elspeth, ajanis,etc. , I substituted it by the E.Dragon, but I'm not sure about it. here I need suggestions
The more I play EE the more I like it so I'll play 4, the ritgh number, why you boys play vindicate, EE is better, EE helps us vs vials, turns 1 from zoos and handle those c.b which is what I mainly want.
I'd like to play 2nd Decree but preferred to play the 4th EE in this slot I'm not convinced, but I' do not expect to face too many landstill in the GP and if so my EE will face their planeswalker...
I'm also thinking in cutting the 2 wraths, one may be substituted instead the 4th EE and leaving the slot for decree intact, and the other by ? Nevinirral/new Jace/ senseis/Oblivion stone.... do not know, althoutgh I prefer to keep those wraths... in here I need suggestions too.
I'm also thinking in replacing the 2 wastelands by 1tropical 1 D.Bowl and leave the E.Dragon slot suggestions about this?
about certain match ups I fear to face Dream halls can some one tell me which card will name with mage? Ultimatum maybe?
well I need your suggestions.
As promised I'm able to give a better analysis about the UWg Goyfstill (decklist can be found on page 188).
Unfortunatly i missed my train to our weekly tourney (yeah i don't own a driving licence), but two weeks filled with testing with my mates and on MWS (if can call this "testing") gave me a better view over the positiv and negativ sides of the deck.
We tested against the most common decks in our current meta (wich include LED-Dredge, Merfolk, Goblins, Zoo, ANT, Team America, Canadian *****, 43 Lands, Aggro Loam, Bant (with / without NO) and Survival (Bant or "Oldschool").
I also tested more or less on MWS against Dreamhalls, Random.dec, Dreadstill, Staxx and NLU.
So I like to start with a short view over the Tier 1 decks:
Led-Dredge:
Game 1: Normaly it looks a bit better then regular Landstill, Spell Pierce is great against early cantrips and Goyf can grow really fast. If we are lucky enough to draw 3-4 of our Sword effects we might get there, but G1 is still in favour of the Dredgeplayer (did anyone expect something else?).
Postboard: We have 5 Relics/Crypts, together with 8 Swordeffects. Kitchenfinks worked out pretty well,too.
Even if we can't handle an resolved Iona (except for winning the damagerace), G2 is more or less in our favour (I keep the term more or less, because we all know what stupid kind of things Dredge is able to do ;) ).
Merfolk (or Enemy No1):
Game 1: Now is the time where our Goyfs shine, if we keep them away from 3 Lords he can outclass nearly everone of them. Turn 1 Vial with Daze backup is still a problem, same goes for the overwhelming forces of 12 Lords, all in all the first game is a bit in favour for the Merfolk player, but we are close behind ;).
Postboard: Now we got more Paths and Grips, they might add Submerge, wich can be anoying, but it seems to be even up to positiv for us after the board (or maybe I'm just increadibly lucky with my hands).
Goblins:
Game 1: Goyf can stall most of there dudes and 6 Swords do the rest, the Turn 1 Vial is painfull again (I miss the EE, if I only could find some space : / ) and Incinerators are able to kill bigger Goyfs, yet we gain some time do to the great staller, to cstabalize the board.
Postboard: Same as Merfolk, adding more Paths and Finks / Grips seal the deal.
Aggro Loam: If we can prevent them from an explosiv start with Spell Snare / Pierce we can mostly stabalize. Goyfs stall each other and 6 Swords seem to be enough against KotR / Terravor. If we get our lonly LftL we can be sure to win.
Postboard: Massiv graveyard hate together with spotremoval and Grips for Assault / Chalices look pretty amazing ;).
ANT:
Game 1: Even with a faster clock and 3 Spellpierces we don't have a great game 1, if we don't draw the nuts and them draw crap for a couple of turns.
Postboard: Ethersworn Canonist is just awesome, even if you can be sure that we will be bounced at your eot sometimes. I also like Kitchenfinks, as they simply mean more preassure on the field and an extra spell for the combo turn.
Canadian *****:
Game 1: I miss the Explosiv again, but Mishra and Goyf can stall early Mongose and other Goyfs (if we have some counter for their postcombat burn). LftL shines again if you can keep wasting their lands.
Postboard: Relics keep them small while we actually really don't need to care about our own Goyfs (Mishra/ Eslpeh can win on thier own, as they usually do).
Zoo:
Game 1: Even if the lose of Explosiv have certainly weaken the matchup we have acces to the great staller aka Goyf, who can comped with their entire board (well maybe not with KftR).
Postboard: Kitchenfinks, more Paths and some Relics are the key to our victory.
I'll come to the Tier 2 decks later ;).
Sorry for the rush and short explanation, but the deck doesn't feel really different from "ordinary" Landstill, the fact that I personally like the most.
cheers
Felidae
PS.: As allways I like to point out that this is only my personal view/experience, I might me completely wrong and you are are free to tell me if you think so ;).
Is there a reason not to play The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale in the deck? It seems as though it would be helpful by locking their mana down, thereby denying them options. It would also appear to slow creature based decks.
I could see issues with "missing" a land drop in a deck that needs to maximize its resource use each turn. However, the benefits of Tabernacle may out weigh the possible set backs. Any thoughts?
It doesn't tap for mana. This is a deck that wants to hit it's first four land drops, preferably five or six. You also can't abuse it like Stax or Lands, as you don't have Armageddon or repeatable Wastelands. More often then not it will have little impact on the game, since many decks run large enough individual threats that they can afford to upkeep the Tabernacle.
Can someone help me with this althoutgh it's via private messagesĦĦĦQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
Thanks