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For me, 7 pieces of targeted removal isn't bad, but it's not great. The whole trick with Ravager can really suck, and Etched Champion is actually a beating.
Affinity is okay preboard for me, but better post when you bring in Pernicious Deeds. Then you're fine :)
Also, Dueling Grounds is nice tech against them, especially since we're running Maze of Ith. Then, you attempt to grind them out.
-Matt
Yeah Etched Champion is the worst. When one of them drops, I have to somehow put counters on a Jitte or I'm toast. I'm fine postboard since I can run Seeds of Innocence or Stony Silence, but game 1 is really tough.
Deathrite Shaman is bonkers in my opinion, the stone cold nuts. He's a Birds of Paradise that doesn't suck when you top deck him in the late game. He provides reach like Cursed Scroll or Grim Lavamancer. He provides lifegain against red/aggressive decks. Oh, and by the way, he target-rapes graveyards while bringing a relevant bonus (drain or life gain.) All of this in a freakin' one mana dude. Playing less than 4 seems wrong to me, even with GSZ.Quote:
Originally Posted by zulander
I agree on deathrite 100% I wanted to check in on the mana base a bit. Is 3 waste really optimal? I feel wierd with less than 4. I run 6 fetch, 3 basic, one karakas, 4 waste, and then 3/2/1 on sav/bayou/scrub. I wanted it as redundant as possible. How do you guys feel about the stifle waste decks? As for the affinity decks, i feel the same way about game ones if you can steal a win awesome, then bring in 3 deeds and blow up their lands, it sorts them out right quick. If you want to strictly metagame go to 4 deeds that'll at least get you some prize packs, you can always tune it down if you go to a major.
Well, let's put it this way. Why are we running 4 Wastes? We're not mana screwing them like we used to. Hardly anyone is running Vindicate. Plus, you have 4 Knights to tutor them up.Quote:
Originally Posted by defector
We also play a ton of coloured cards, and you REALLY need the mana. I favour playing more fetches over the Wasteland just for the fact of colour fixing. I've been playing 3 Wastes since Knight was printed and it's been fine. I've never felt like I need more. I guess SOMETIMES 4 would have been fine, but I never have an issue, usually.
-Matt
Fair enough I'll cut to three and see how it goes. Put one more fetch in that slot. The other idea that I've been toying with is adding basics. I'm not sure if its relevant but a mana base that was 3 waste/1 karakas, 5 basics/7duals, 7 fetch. Has anyone tested around with any configurations like that? I'm mainly concerned about the BUG/RUG delver mu where they have 4 stifle, 4 waste and usually some removal for shaman.
Thanks!
Hi, in my list i run this manabase/tutor lands: 2 swamp, 1 forest, 1 plains, 8 fetches, 4 duals, 4 wasteland, 1 karakas, 1 maze, 1 bog, together w/ 3 mox diamond, sometimes it is like -1 waste, +1 volrathQuote:
Originally Posted by defector
my reason for running 4 basics esp. 2 swamp
1) i have MD deeds so i want to max out the deeds w/o worrying i have been wastelanded,
2) i have MD liliana sometimes i want to cast liliana using basics via 2 swamp+1 so that my duals are open for spells like decay/stp, also it is easy to cast liliana via double swamp w/o being wastelanded
3) to cheat RUG as well make their wasteland a dead card, while you are the machine head here killing their manabase w/o worrying to wastelanded you back.
A little tip about RUG w/ stifle, if you suspect that your opponent playing RUG deck do fetch activations on their upkeep making them to tap their mana and they are 1 less mana effective to cast spells, example you are on the draw and your opponent plays misty rainforest then passes, you draw and play fetch land in this case i will pass the turn, Opponent turn's now, on his upkeep crack your fetchland, a RUG player will throw their stifle on your fetch (if not that stifle will be a dead card) then on his main phase he is only 1 mana effective to cast spells (1 land is tapped for stifle and 1 untap land), it is like timewalking in your position.
Another tip is to fetch inresponce to their fetchland activation but be careful not to all-in your fetch activation do it step by step in-responce to his activation.
About wasteland i knew it hurts so much but dont forget to fetch basics to avoid problems, wasteland on your duals is reality but you can cheat it.
Now i drop my mox diamonds for the shaman slot retaining same manabase count/confi, for now i cant share much of my observation, quite busy at work and preparation at modern tournament :wink:
So I ground out some games against Miracles (again), since it placed three in the Top 4 at Dallas, so I figure it will be a serious contender for Seattle.
I ran some preboard games, and the results were only so-so. I got wiped by a Turn 2 Terminus that 3-for-1'd me, and several other shenanigans. It wasn't super pretty.
Postboard, I did this:
-4 Swords to Plowshares, -2 Inquisition of Kozilek, -1 Random
+2 Gaddock Teeg, +3 Hymn to Tourach, +1 Garruk Relentless
Then, the matchup swung much more the other way. He boarded in Moat, another Terminus, and some other creature hate. Hymn busted up their hand, and Abrupt Decay was VERY good. Sylvan won me many games, and had to be Oblivion Ring'd or Detention Sphered. Top to keep up with Top was good as well. Gaddock Teeg was exceptional, and when paired with something eating graveyards, they can't rely on Snapcaster; they must draw an actual Swords to Plowshares to try to get ahead. Garruk poops tokens and negates Terminus, but remember to hold your Pulses for Angel tokens if you can.
The reason why I cut Inquisition, even though we WANT discard in this matchup, was backed by a few reasons.
1) What else are you going to cut? You can't cut creatures for pressure, removing non-STP removal is a liability, and you need draw effects as well as GSZ to fetch your sideboard cards.
2) Inquisition doesn't grab Entreat, Jace, etc., but DOES increase your chance, if on the play, of grabbing their Top/CB.
Thoughts? Questions? Comments?
I still need to round out my board:
3 Hymn to tourach
1 Virtue's Ruin
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Garruk Relentless
2 EE/Pernicious Deed
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Open
I don't have more slots for Miracles, Maverick should be fine with Tracker, Deeds, Ruin, and Garruk, etc. Thoughts? I'm thinking either more grave hate or something like Timely for RUG. Maybe EE?
-Matt
Entreat the Angels has CMC 3 even if it looks like itīs more. You can Inquisition it away. This happened to me once and I almost didn't notice it. I think you are right about boarding out the Inquisition in this match though. Not hitting Jace sucks so much. :)
Here's the list I've been toying with:
Mana: 23
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 Bayou
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
Creatures: 21
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Dark Confidant
Disruption: 12
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay
Other: 4
3 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
Sideboard: 15
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Duress
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Elspeth
3 Tormod's Crypt
At rynball2: thanks for the tips. Ill keep the upkeep fetch thing in mind thats a good play. Im rebuilding the base tonight: waste x3 karakas x1 fetch x6 duals x7 basics x5. Ill test that and see what i think of it. I want solid resiliency.
At matt: I agree that miracles is the dtb. I hate that pos and I think it will define the meta passing RUG in the next couple months. I board out 3 stp 2 jitte 1 ooze 1 maze and bring in 3 choke 3 angel 1 teeg. Stp and maze are way dead. G1 i figure i am about 45% g2/3 maybe even favored. Miracles is really tough. Teeg and mom are my best ays and the shaman. I like choke but im not committed to it. More games are required.
And I completely agree about cutting iok for ts. The mu where the discard matters are so tight you cant afford a miss.
At zulander: the list looks good. A few ideas, the 4th deathrite is worth it in my op. I like scryb in there as well. Scryb positively interacts with kotr and shaman. 3 sylvan seems to many but it is a great card. Good luck with it!
This list is my favourite. Honestly. The only thing I'd change is Qasali for Ulvenwald. Otherwise, love it. It's like the no-nonsense version of mine. I may actually just run this. We'll see.Quote:
Mana: 23
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 Bayou
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
Creatures: 21
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Dark Confidant
Disruption: 12
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay
Other: 4
3 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
-Matt
Let me know how it goes. The list has legs for sure:)
It's definitely missing some things, but we'll see :P
-Matt
I played my usual list last night, and it was a bad night. Bottoming out the car in a construction zone, sticky sleeves, and a ton of Burn decks (about 40% of the meta) ruined my night.
It was a free Legacy tournament at a new store, but all the players were new to Legacy, so they all bought into Burn/Affinity/Dredge. Cool. Rojund 1, I almost got there against Burn, needed another turn.
Round 2, Buy.
Round 3, Sneak and Show. Won.
Round 4, Burn. Died on Turn 4 each time.
During these games, I never drew a Knight, Tarmogoyf, or Deathrite. My clumping issues were RIDICULOUS. I'm not too mad since I know Mono Red Burn is an awful matchup, but still. Sucks when everything falls apart.
I'll still be running this at SCG Seattle on Sunday if I end up going, so I'll keep y'all posted.
-Matt
So here's how my tournament went with the list posted earlier:
Round 1 - Goblins. Lost 0-2. Game 1 drew a ton of lands and not enough gas (had him dead). Game 2 I drew about 2-3 lands, and that was not good with him hitting all 4 Gempalm Incinerator.
0-1
Round 2 - Beat some random URW deck. Thoughseize was great.
1-1
Round 3 - Stoneblade Miracles. Won 2-0. Thoughseize was great, but Abrupt Decay was amazing killing tokens and stoneforges. Game 1 I landed a turn 2 Sylvan that won me the game, and game 2 I boarded in 3 Teeg's. While Teeg never landed on the board he did eat up his hand which allowed me to win through other beaters.
Round 4 - RUG. Lost 1-2. Game 3 he just drew the nuts, had daze/spell snare/force for my stp, ooze, goyf. Not fun. Then he had stifle, waste, forked bolt for my fetch, bayou, deathrite shaman. All of that in game 3. Not fun at all. Tested a little afterwards as well and it just seemed like it was not a good matchup.
Changes I could see being made, -1 Garruk for +1 Deathrite. I'd like to see some Thalia's, maybe -1 Abrupt Decay, -1 Thoughtseize, +2 Thalia. Against RUG I also felt like I'd want Mother of Runes, but then that changes the deck to JUNK Maverick, not so sure I want to make that many changes as of now.
The list I posted was solid, but you could easily cut the following amounts of cards:
1 Sylvan
1 Dark Confidant
1 Garruk
1-4 Thoughtseize (as long as the replacement is good against control/combo like Thalia's)
1-2 Abrupt Decay
1 Wasteland -> land
I definitely want to add in 1 more deathrite Shaman, that guy was very good all night. Would have loved him turn 1 every game. If you like this style of disruptive aggro deck it's worth it to look at Team America as you get the new toys but get brainstorm, ponder, better disruption, and delver. Sure you lose knight/swords but it may be worth a look, and may be something I'll take a look at as well once my midterm papers are complete.
Here's the current list I'll be playing in a Win-A-Mox this weekend. Assuming I do well, I'll have another report up later this weekend.
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Thoughtseise
2 Inquisition
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sensei's Top
2 Mox Diamond
2 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Savanah
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Wasteland
1 Bog
1 Mase of Ith
1 Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Windswept Heath
3 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard:
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Golgari Charm
1 Sealous Persecution
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Choke
1 Stony Silence
1 Qasali Pridemate
1 Duress
I rebuilt my sideboard to be anti miracles and anti combo. I'm expecting good things.
Dyvith
Good luck to all in your events, hope you have a good showing:)