[Primer] Nic Fit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralf

.

Quick summary:

R1 - Burn -> 2/1
R2 - DelverBlade -> 2/1
R3 - U/R Delver with Ptera -> 2/0
R4 - Slow Depths -> 2/1
R5 - Turbo Depths ->0/2
R6 - ID into top 8
R7 - BR Rea -> 2/0
R8 - D&T ->2/0
R9 - Slow Depths (R5) ->2/1

Regards,

Ralf

---

Hi Ralf,

Just a couple of questions concerning your deck build.
1. Was Leovold worth to play?
2. Mystic Enforcer, ahh great memories, Was it only to combat Zombie fish+Shadow, why not Rhino/Meren?
3. How excavator performed with 1x GQuarter and 7x Fetch?
4. Was Fierce empath useful?
5. Sylvan Library in the sideboard looks weird to me, can you explain this choice?
6. How was your match up against Depth/Reanimator, do you find Crop rotation for Karakas sufficient?

Thank you, good job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joaquin

Congrats Ralf!

Could you explain why you felt the need for the white and blue splash for archon and leovold?
And more importantly why mystic enforcer is in the deck now? haha

I like your version of nic fit so much and every time I see it I wanna start building it. Any extra info you could provide about the deck would be appreciated.

---

Hello Joaquin,

MKM Paris was a very good test for the initial list. It helped me a lot identifying which creature' singleton had earned its slot or not.


1) Grim Flayer

I was happy with Grim Flayer against the Elves' MU, but not so happy against grixis control. I'm not saying Grim was faulty in this MU but I had the feeling that I needed another creature against blue based control deck. One that is really annoying.

Leovold seems like to fit the bill. It annoys control and combo decks (based on cantrips and CA) while providing a "not so bad" clock. So I thought I should give him a GO instead of Grim Flayer just to gather more "data".


2) Carnage Tyrant

During MKM Paris, Tyrant was never game breaker. It is just a vanilla beater with hexproof/trample. It is not bad but not very good either because each time I ended up casting it I was on the defense side and couldn't really take advantage of its attacking power. So I challenged its slot and pondered between playing Grave Titan or Archon.
I went with Archon because it acts like another "lock" pieces while being able to smash faces and defend your guts at the same time (vigilance is a very very nice ability and one that was missing in the tool box)


3) Ishkanah

I'm a very very big fan of that spider. It was in the initial list to have a GSZ out to flying creature while giving an edge against sacrifice effect (LoTV, diabolic edict etc...) and a wincon when the board is stuck. Eventually, tests proved me that it is a little bit too much on the "cute" side. So I have decided to try "Mystic Enforcer" in its place. The condition is almost the same and it can block flying creature like a boss. The added "Black Pro" is ice on the cake when Depths deck are hyped...
Threshold is not "easy" to achieve, I won't lie but so was the "delirium". Grim Flayer was really nice when threshold conditions are to be met.

Anyway, black is everywhere and between Hymn and TS, your oppo is definitely helping you getting the few missing cards for the threshold.


4) Knight of Autumn

That card justifies by itself the need for a white splash as it is just plain better than Rec. Sage. It also freed up a slot in the SB (no more need for a Thragtusk when you have a mean to win life in the MUs where it matters)


Eventually the two splashes were easy task:
-1 forest for 1 savannah
-1 swamp for 1 underground sea

I don't see any issue going for a scrubland and a tropical island if you want (but I'll be honest I haven't think through too much about that)

Regards,

Ralf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pettdan

Very nice to hear, congratulations Ralf! Winning a tournament that size with Nic Fit is not a common feat. And your list is like always an interesting take. I've liked the land package before, played it in Cloudpost Fit, and am currently playing a Hymn version, mixing them seems like a good idea..

---

Thanks for the greetings and yes it was a tough battle to get there I won't lie. No MUs were a piece of cake but this is what you get when you play Nic Fit. You have the tools to beat every deck but you have to make the perfect decisions at all time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matsu

Hi Ralf,

Just a couple of questions concerning your deck build.
1. Was Leovold worth to play?
2. Mystic Enforcer, ahh great memories, Was it only to combat Zombie fish+Shadow, why not Rhino/Meren?
3. How excavator performed with 1x GQuarter and 7x Fetch?
4. Was Fierce empath useful?
5. Sylvan Library in the sideboard looks weird to me, can you explain this choice?
6. How was your match up against Depth/Reanimator, do you find Crop rotation for Karakas sufficient?

Thank you, good job.

---

Thank you.

1) Cannot answer yet. Leo didn't show up very often and I didn't face any MUs in which it is supposed to shine. Will need more data to draw any conclusion. It was sworded against D&T and that was the only MU I saw him (I've never GSZ for it during the other MU)

2) Mystic is to have a GSZ out to flying beast while being a f.cking wall to Daddy Grisel and Marit the B. Ofc, not caring about the fish and strixes is an "all star" addition.

3) Excavator. The more I play him the more I like him. It is an edge vs wasteland decks while also providing you the option to play a land a turn without accelerating your opponent (stoneblade, miracle, control) with veteran. It saved me against D&T (this week end) and he synergized with Courser and Tracker in almost every other MUs. And once you see how he is broken against eldrazi and big eldrazi with a crop into GC, I cannot imagine not having him in my 75.

7 fetch = 75% odds to see one in the first 3 turns if you kept an opening 7 cards hand. Almost 80 % if you consider that you'll start abusing Excavator the very next turn you play it. And if you GSZ for it, the odds are even higher (because it won't be turn 3 nor turn 4 but as early as turn 5 to start abusing it). I'm not taking into account calculations with a triggered veteran here (which has no sense at all except the fact that you could gsz for excavator turns earlier). I'm fine with those odds and I'm not counting the 2 crop in these calculations (above 85% if you consider it).

4) Empath. It is worth ? I dunno. During MKM Paris he proved to be an all star when you can follow it up with Massacre Wurm. This is our most reliable way to get that beast into play when we need it and this -2/-2 effect + lifeloss is NO JOKE at all. Not so much during this tournament but well you know it is a toolbox deck...

5) Sylvan is usually for control/combo and STP decks. Having another CA engine that you can abuse when life total doesn't matter much is important. To be honest it came in against most opponents (even Tempo/Burn) to at least give you potential quality draws. One could argue I should be playing it MD but I don't have the space at the moment.

6) I was lucky with crop rotation. I won G1 against BR because I kept an opening hand with a crop and he got blown by it; he didn't have a discard spell (I didn't know what I was facing). Post side against rea, I felt "OKish". You'll always be too weak against grave strategies that have the nuts (T0->BOUM) but past a certain number of gravehates, you end up hindering other MUs. I have accepted to lose some games against grave strategies where they have the nuts. Just keep hands that at least give you an Ooze by T3 (if it doesn't contains a real counter measure).
15 sideboard cards is not a lot and we have so many decks to battle...

In the final, G2 and G3 were won because of crop rotation. G2 -> into Karakas and G3 -> into GC because he had a safekeeper that would disrupt the karakas plan. I have already expressed as much as I could about playing 2 crop in Nic Fit as being a mandatory move (but you'll need to dig this very thread a bit).
2 is for me the better number as with 3 you end up making too much CDA against control deck but with less than 2 you end up not seeing it enough to sustain the 4 utility land slots I'm playing (Bojuka, Karakas, GC, Tower).

By the way, GC could be a wasteland.

Ralf

Hey everyone I've been playing nic fit for a while, but haven't played in too many tournaments in the past year. I usually play the rhino fit version of the deck and was wondering about two things:
1. Is thoughtseize or hymn to tourach is better in this variant of the deck?
2. How good is the archon?
Any help would be appreciated as I prepare for a decent size legacy tournament in a couple of weeks.

The Archon is the best top end you can run.

Hymn is strong but risky. Thoughtseize is always useful.

There's also a Nic Fit discord, if you're interested.

I would definitely join the discord!!
I will have to get some reps in with archon to see how strong it truly is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StoneforgeMystic

I would definitely join the discord!!
I will have to get some reps in with archon to see how strong it truly is.

---

Here you go:

https://discord.gg/GRQWGk

It's valid for the day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Echelon

Here you go:

https://discord.gg/GRQWGk

It's valid for the day.

---

Actually, we have a link that never expires:

https://discord.gg/aSYstjY

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralf

Hello,

I played a Legacy tournament this week-end and finished 1st with the following list which is almost the same I used a couple of months ago when I finished 13th during MKM Paris.

---

Been out of the Legacy scene for a few weeks now since there's very little local opportunity to play and I've been too busy to travel.

Did you find the 4th color splash to be much of an issue?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StoneforgeMystic

Hey everyone I've been playing nic fit for a while, but haven't played in too many tournaments in the past year. I usually play the rhino fit version of the deck and was wondering about two things:
1. Is thoughtseize or hymn to tourach is better in this variant of the deck?
2. How good is the archon?
Any help would be appreciated as I prepare for a decent size legacy tournament in a couple of weeks.

---

Try this. It has been very good to me. If you have any questions ask. Good luck!

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
2 Tracker
2 Knight of Autumn
2 Siege Rhino
1 Meren
1 Thragtusk (we dont need big end really)

4 Cabal Therapy
4 GSZ
3 Path
4 Assassins Trophy
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Sylvan Library
2 Deed
1 Kaya, Ghost Assasssin
1 Nissa, Vital Force

4 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswepth Heath
2 Marsh Flats

Side:
3 Surgical
3 Thoughtseize (I think Hymn is too greedy)
2 Choke
2 Containment Priest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Painful Truth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brael

Been out of the Legacy scene for a few weeks now since there's very little local opportunity to play and I've been too busy to travel.

Did you find the 4th color splash to be much of an issue?

---

No. I wouldn't say it is irrelevant (it took me several turns to cast Leo against D&T but that was because he kept porting my Underground...)
Let's be honest 80 to 90% of the time you will GSZ for the relevant threats without worrying about color issue.
The deck is a true golgari one.

So I played a league last night on mtgo and ended up going 2-3 with it. Here is my list:
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
2 Tireless Tracker(felt too slow)
1 Knight of Autumn
3 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons(She felt underwhelming last night is there a better 5 drop)
1 Archon of Valor's Reach

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Thoughtseize
2 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Night's Whisper
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin(never saw)
1 Nissa, Vital Force(both times I played her they had removal to deal with the lands I made 5/5s)

4 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath


Side:
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Thoughtseize
1 Path to Exile
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sylvan Library
1 Golgari Charm
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

R1: UR Phoenix(1-2)
Games were pretty close I mulled to four game 3 which was rough.
Is it better to name faithless looting over ponder/manamorphose in this matchup?

R2: UW Miracles(0-2)
Game one I stripped their hand, but they top decked like a boss two STP and a snap which made my Nissa sad.
Game two I got hard controlled out of the game.
I named accumulated knowledge against them. Or should I be naming a threat card instead?

R3: Sneak/Show(2-1)
Games one and three I stripped their hand and rode a cannonist to victory in game three. Game two I got omniscience emrakul killed.

R4: UW Blade(0-2)
This was more of the midrange version of the deck.
Game one TNN just annihilated me, I didnt see a P. Deed or deluge. Game two the game went long enough where they kept bouncing the batterskull and found a TNN and rode it to victory.

R5: Painter Servant(2-0)
Game one I got timely knight of autumn or I would have lost to the combo. Game two I stripped their hand and had a scavenging ooze to eat their combo pieces as I slowly dismantled their hand with thoughtseizes and therapies.

Thoughts about the deck. I felt overall it played similar to how it had a year ago. I had a decent amount of game where I felt like I had lots of disruptions and little threats. There was also games where I had to mull to 4 or 5 and then just did nothing. I felt knight of autumn was better than tracker last night, but Im wondering if it is because of the decks I played against. Also thinking I need chokes in the sideboard, last time I played I feel like I didn't lose that hard to UW.

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.

Neoform was recently spoiled.

Rector Fit should LOVE Neoform.

Turn 1 Veteran Explorer, Turn 2 Neoform to search out the single copy of Incubation Druid from your library saccing explorer generates 8 mana on turn 3 that can be used to hardcast any of the giant spells that Rector Fit has in hand (Turn 3 Ugin, Overwhelming Splendor, Sandwurm Convergence, Nicol Bolas etc is game over).

Not bad for a 2 card combo where both cards synergize super well with the rest of the deck.

Neoform for example doubles as another way to sac a Rector and gets you a 6/4 Tragtusk to boot.

Neoforming any random creature also doubles as an additional shuffle effect for brainstorm which most blue splashes of Nic Fit already run.

@CaptainHammer: No, it's cute at best. Not worth the slots.

@SFM: When running Archon as topend Thragtusk is the prefered 5-drop. The ADs should really be Assassin's Trophies, and I see you run 0 Mirri's Guile/Sylvan Library. You should aim to run around 3. They give you some much needed consistency. Maelstrom Pulse doesn't have a place in the deck anymore. It's outclassed by Assassin's Trophy. As for your SB, PtE and Deed are wasted slots. They're mostly good vs. decks you're already favored against, so why waste the space on that? If you want to run some sort of spotremoval just run more Assassin's Trophies. Answers everything from lockpieces and equipment to planeswalkers to opposing Overwhelming Splendors and whatnot. Heck, they even do some work vs. Lands. KoA you already run MD, so you don't need a 2nd. Redundant copies of KoA in your SB should be ATs (if you're not already at 4). Garruk, Primal Hunter is too colour intensive so I'd swap that out for a different walker. The Sylvan Library should be a MD deck, and the Spellbomb should be something different as well. SB cards to look at are more discard and Lost Legacy. LL does a crapton of work across a lot of bad MUs. From ANT/TES to Reanimator to S&S to Miracles. I hope this helps!

Also, I could send you an invite to the Nic Fit discord if you're interested. It's pretty active and there should always be someone around to help you with your builds. Edit: Never mind, you're already in there :laugh:

@captain hammer: i was saying similar things on discord. I think that a rector build that can play cantrips and blue is better than one that doesn't, and i fear that 4 color are too much without bop/mox ecc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Echelon

@CaptainHammer: No, it's cute at best. Not worth the slots.

@SFM: When running Archon as topend Thragtusk is the prefered 5-drop. The ADs should really be Assassin's Trophies, and I see you run 0 Mirri's Guile/Sylvan Library. You should aim to run around 3. They give you some much needed consistency. Maelstrom Pulse doesn't have a place in the deck anymore. It's outclassed by Assassin's Trophy. As for your SB, PtE and Deed are wasted slots. They're mostly good vs. decks you're already favored against, so why waste the space on that? If you want to run some sort of spotremoval just run more Assassin's Trophies. Answers everything from lockpieces and equipment to planeswalkers to opposing Overwhelming Splendors and whatnot. Heck, they even do some work vs. Lands. KoA you already run MD, so you don't need a 2nd. Redundant copies of KoA in your SB should be ATs (if you're not already at 4). Garruk, Primal Hunter is too colour intensive so I'd swap that out for a different walker. The Sylvan Library should be a MD deck, and the Spellbomb should be something different as well. SB cards to look at are more discard and Lost Legacy. LL does a crapton of work across a lot of bad MUs. From ANT/TES to Reanimator to S&S to Miracles. I hope this helps!

Also, I could send you an invite to the Nic Fit discord if you're interested. It's pretty active and there should always be someone around to help you with your builds. Edit: Never mind, you're already in there :laugh:

---

I still beg to differ.

Since DRS is gone, most manabases are playing basics. Trophy is a very fine card but AD is still better IMHO.
Nic Fit is a deck where you build incremental CA. So that giving an opponent a basic land in the early stage of a game is just nailing your own coffin.

There is a reason why STP is played over PTE and as long as Tempo, counterbalance and permission exists, I'm afraid, AD > Trophy.
Many games, veteran doesn't die in the early stage of the game but many games we need to decay something in the first 3 or 4 turns...
Not to mention that Trophy cannot be used to kill our own veteran and sometimes when everything seems lost, you know...

Finally playing Trophy over Maelstrom Pulse is a good question.
Trophy is far better in a vacuum as it gets to hit more permanents than Pulse. It is more mana efficient and can be played as an instant BUT Trophy will never ever grant you CA.
Again, as I believe Nic Fit is a control deck by nature, we should not aim for too many 1 for 1 card so that when you have packed 4 Decay, there is little room MD for another spot removal.

I have often hit 2 permanents with Pulse because the odds you have it mid/late game are vastly superior than having it early game, so are your odds of making CA with Pulse.

So I guess it is more of a personal choice (and I will gadly reckon I/we need more data to take a "final" stand on this question if it can be solved).

My two cents,

Ralf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralf

My two cents,

Ralf

---

Are you currently at Ghent already? Btw, just played 1-2 drop in trail 1 today with Jund NicFit (with Light up the Stage)

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobmans

Are you currently at Ghent already? Btw, just played 1-2 drop in trail 1 today with Jund NicFit (with Light up the Stage)

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk

---

No. This is unfortunate but as a family man I have to select the very few tournaments, I can attend to, very "wisely".

It should be better in a couple of years when they are older :p

Have fun and I hope you'll shine for the community !

Regards,

Ralf

Yesterday on MKM Gent I played a 8 rector list for the full 9 rounds to a devastating 3-6. The good news is that with some other players Rector (most focus on Arena) was recognised as an entity to name in the meta breakdown.

On overall the list was a lot of times 1 play or turn away from winning. Most match loses where 1-2. The deck is good, but just 1 tech/card/turn away from being broken.

For reference i did not play Euraka. Instead i played 3 Lingering Souls and 2 Evo Leap. And Living Wish offc.

Cheershttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0685fcd914.jpg

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G960F met Tapatalk