it's just the fastest way to win a game, and versus merfolk + RWM it rocks
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it's just the fastest way to win a game, and versus merfolk + RWM it rocks
I've always ran the full set... I talked about dropping a couple, but I never actually did, too lazy to test it out.
I'm also back on board with four Piledrivers. It's just been too good to me in too many situations.
I completely agree with not running Incinerators, many times I find they are in my hand and of no value. They just don't cut it vs Tarmogoyf and i'd rather pack 4 Stingscrouger (or Warren Wierding if you run black). They're a lot better when you run Mogg War Marshall, but in the builds packing Instigator there's no room for them (Piledriver is also better with MWM, but still very good without). Also, if they become a dead card, the 2 mana to cycle feels very costly in a deck so focused on speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Cyrus
Another thing I have found but seems to be contrary to the majority is...
Goblin Chieftain > Goblin Warchief.
Having +1/+1 on all Goblins makes a massive impact on the amount of damage you deal and often I find I fetch him with Matron.
Goblin Warchief is still a great card, and I run 4, but I see many people running 1 or 2 Chieftains and 4 Warchiefs. Particually any build where you run 4 Instigators, you have 12 ways to cheat Goblins into play (Vial + Lackey + Instigator) I find that I really don't need the -1 to CC.
On another note... what do people think of this list? I'm keen to try it out (have never tried Black splash before). It's fitting with my thoughts on Warchief, but I'd probably remove the 1 copy of Incinerator.
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29615
4 Wasteland
17 Mountain
4 Goblin Lackey
2 Warren Instigator
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Stingscourger
3 Gemplam Incinerator
3 Siege Gang Commander
4 Aether Vial
3 Goblin Piledriver
2 Mogg Fanatic
SB:
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Relic Of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Pyrokinesis
3 Pithing Needle
2 Goblin Tinkerer
this is my most recent list, its been performing really well in testing. At my last tournament, opposing vials and veldaken shackles really ruined my day so I added a few tinkerers to the SB to handle them.
I really like your list Joe C-I am currently running a similar list. The only differences are -2 fanatic -1 Chieftain, +1 Instigator +2 Port--->FoulQ's list (thanks FQ!). Personally I like having the higher land count.
My question for you is, do you like having more chieftain than instigators? I feel that with your lower land count/lower number of lackey effects, running more instigators will be more beneficial as you are playing with 3x SGC. While I love Chieftain, dropping SGC more easily might make things even better for you. Just a thought.
This is pretty close to what I've got put together and sleeved, though I haven't been playing it lately. I've been loaning it out at weekly events to good success. That said, there are a few differences:Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_C
-1 mountain
-1 Matron
-1 Gempalm
-2 Mogg Fanatic
+1 sharpshooter
+2 rishadan port
+1 Instigator
+1 Piledriver.
Board different to cope with my ridic weird meta.. but that aside, very close list, almost down to preferences on numbers really.
I like instigator as a 2-of in my list. I feel like he is a waste in multiples in my hand early and I really really need fanatic in my meta, so instigator is a card I dont feel needs to be over 2 in my deck. I know alot of people are nay-sayers on fanatic, but he works for me and he is very useful if you play with him properly. I was running 3 ports in my list at the last tourney and was a little underwhelmed with them. I love them, but there is a ton of aggro in my meta and the slowdown of them not being colored mana wasnt working for me. I would put them back in if more control decks started showing up, but in the meantime I like the 17 red sources, 4 waste manabase for my list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damnosus
This somewhat concerns me. Matron is very important to have as a 4-of if you are trying to maximize the deck as a goblins deck. Like with ringleader and lackey, it will probably never be reasonable to have less than 4 in your deck at all times and continue to call it "goblins" in a legacy sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sims
Matron does a lot of things:
First and foremost he fetches a mid game ringleader. What this does is help us transition into the late game, something we want against a lot of decks. Or, it will help us in the card advantage war, a war that inevitably occurs against another handful of decks.
He can also fetch transition cards. Gempalm Incinerator against zoo once we have established enough guys, for example. Kills a crucial guy and with the gempalm's cycling we don't really lose anything, and helps us get to the late ringleader game plan.
And he can fetch safety valves or cards to win the game. Sometimes your only out is stingscourger. Sometimes, a second piledriver will win the game then and there, and mathematically it makes sense to take the risk of matroning for a piledriver even if your opponent has W untapped if you are afraid of giving them enough time to draw answers to your synergistic creatures.
I will never cut matron.
I have a question, is the W splash worth running and is it better than the B splash w/ Weirdings, Smothers?
Read back some pages this discussion comes back every once in a while.
When you need to win right now Goblin Chieftain can just break an opponent in a way I don't think Warchief can quite match. In terms of a longer game, with more positional development, say, trying to outmatch another tribal deck, Warchief's cost reduction really starts to shine. Ringleader practically makes this deck, and at 3 mana or less, he is just one of the most broken creatures ever printed.Quote:
Another thing I have found but seems to be contrary to the majority is...
Goblin Chieftain > Goblin Warchief.
Having +1/+1 on all Goblins makes a massive impact on the amount of damage you deal and often I find I fetch him with Matron.
Normally I would also argue against running any less than 4 legal Demonic tutors. However, in a deck with this level of redundancy, I have not found the full boat to be necessary. With 3 I have had very, very few times where I've needed one and not had it, but I also don't end up drawing 1 when I needed a Ringleader or a SGC or something and don't have the mana to send grandma looking for the goods. As someone who has played the deck since the format was 1.5 I feel comfortable, at least personally, dropping to 3 matrons.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoulQ
Neither myself, nor any of the people I've been loaning out to, have had a problem with it either.
Here is my build which hasnt been updated in a while. Maindeck Pyrokinesis and lots of token creators with Incinerator to help the zoo matchup. I would like to fit in Chieftain obviously good with all the tokens and maybe Stingscourger but don't know what to take out (King could move to sideboad probably). Maybe Stingscourger instead of Pyrokinesis? Pyro gets rid of blockers permanently though.
4 Goblin Lackey
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Mogg War Marshal
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin King
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Siege Gang Commander
3 Pyrokinesis
4 Aether Vial
4 Wasteland
17 Mountain
SB:
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Price of Progress
1 Goblin Pyromancer
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Tinkerer
stingscourger is our only out to Iona, which is starting to see alot more play at least in my area. Any phatty creatures decks can cheat into play will usually be too big for you to deal with with incinerator unless you are way ahead and winning anyway.
If Iona is a problem, I would suggest a RB lackey-centric build. This way, you have two answers to Iona in two different colors. Also you will be playing both warren weirding and stingscourger: both fulfill similar roles against decks with few creatures but ones that can't be incinerated. With so many ways to remove blockers on t2 you will have a pretty high likelihood of connecting with lackey/instigator (although it is probably assuming you dropped incinerator to 1 or 0 of).
The big problem with this is that most people will have to change their playstyle as well, as connecting with lackies becomes more common but also much more important to success.
Still, something to try.
About the matron point, it is hard for me to argue against "well, it has worked for me, so..." I don't understand the logic behind drawing a matron instead of a ringleader or SGC. Matron acts as extra ringleaders, he makes it more likely for you to get more ringleaders, and to some extent SGCs, depending on your playstyle. That part really confuses me.
I'm not the only deck that runs taxing effects on mana in the metagame that I play in. The problem that I have with it is that it's 3 mana to search my libarary, most common targets being 2 or 4 mana, where I do not always have vial/chief (and if I do I'm usually ahead ayways) and do not have the mana to play out the card I needed. Granted, I have one of the most fucked up metagames ever, which thankfully is starting to get a bit better, but I'd honestly rather run the 4th Piledriver over the 4th Matron. I haven't had any consistency issues at all, and have been overall happy with the list. Chalk it up to a preference thing if you want, but that is my preference.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoulQ
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=30749
MonoRed got 11th place in SCG 5k. I use a list almost identical to that one, except for the sideboard, I don't use Thorns. What did he use them for, besides combo?
I would be interested in what he lost to. I still dont think 4 piledrivers are needed. I dropped back to 2 again so I can run 3 ports in my deck (since I go -1 driver -2 mountain, +3 ports when I run them). Im not saying they are needed everywhere but in my meta fanatic comes in REAL handy.
Concerning sideboards, couple ?s
Referring to mono red builds:
Boartusk, is he needed if you are not expecting plague, which I think is a fair statement nowadays. Has anyone boarded him in knowing plague wasn't coming
Anarchy, iona? white stax? am I overlooking something?
golbins utility box, does anyone like this approach. i.e. stingscourgers, tinker, sharpshooter,chieftain?