Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TerribleTim68
Just for conversation's sake -
If you added a single
Dryad Arbor to the main, wouldn't that help the NO/Pro SB plan a bit? It would give you a GSZ target on turn 1 and a sac for the NO. Just a thought. I may try it, haven't decided. My list isn't using the NO/Pro plan, but it isn't out of the question yet either.
. . .That's one of the changes that would probably need to be made, yeah. It's stuff like that, though, that I'm talking about. NO is like Omni. Neither one can just be slotted into Rector can call it a day. If you want NO, you need to make changes to support it. Same with Omni. . .
That's why I wanted to throw it out there. Those who are thinking about going with the NO/Pro SB plan, I think you should consider this change to your MD. I'm not sure it helps the MD pre-SB (probably hurts a bit), but it seems like it wouldn't hurt post-SB. It's kind of one of those "It's not great, but it doesn't suck" deals. :tongue:
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
On a completely unrelated note to anything, has anyone had any experience with sedation dentistry for cleanings and/or wisdom teeth removal? I'm rapidly approaching the point where I'm going to need to get a cleaning and then deal with my wisdom teeth, but I'm beyond horrible with dentists. Nobody I know IRL has gone to a sedation dentist, it seems, so I'm turning to my various online communities for advice. I mostly don't want to remember anything of the procedure -- if any of you have gone to such a dentist, PM me about it so we don't derail the thread unnecessarily.
I've had 1 taken out last year, 1 few weeks ago and the other 2 are coming in a month orso. What i did, was basically just go to the hospital to have them removed.
Here in Netherlands atleast, they give you a good shot in your mouth which hurts, but after that it is all just more a very unpleasant feeling, and your mouth hurts like fucking hell for a week orso, then it's all gone :) Make sure you have plenty of painkillers (i used Paracetamol and Ibuprofen, but they have different stuff in America) and take the maximum dose daily.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Woe_Bringer
Hey everyone. Longtime lurker first timr poster. Just picked up Nic Fit about a week or so ago. Been having some trouble finding updated lists to work on and help improve the deck. If anyone can share the latest lists of the various builds that would ve most helpul. Thanks.
There are 7 different Nic Fit versions in my Signature that I have all used in tournament settings. All of them have placed in at least 1 Top8 and/or placed first at local events of 20+ players at the exception of the Jarad's Order and Trinket Mage versions (I stopped playing with them when DRS came out). The GB, Rock, and Gifts versions are the ones I have had the most success with.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Hello Nic-Fitters, I have some news for people who are enjoying the Chronofit version.
I did a lot of testing these days and the list I am playing is certainly more solid than it was at the beginning.
My list runs 2x Criptic Command just like arianrhod's, but lately I was not that happy with it as I was before. The UUU in its mana cost is really clunky and many times I just found myself shuffling it away with Brainstorm/Jace even though I needed its versatility to break the board status.
I was wondering.. Why don't we try a 2x Snapcaster Mage instead? Snappy+Ancestral sounds totally awesome a body plus 3 cards for 1U.
I still didnt tested it, but it will prob require a couple of changes main deck in order to increase the number of sorc/instants we have.
So this is the updated list:
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
2 Thragtusk
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Capture of Jingzhou
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Panoptic Mirror
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
2 Forest
3 Island
2 Swamp
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Brainstorm
2 Snapcaster Mage
SB: 4 Negate
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Cranial Extraction
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 2 Bribery
SB: 1 Panoptic Mirror
Also I did a -1 Forest +1 Misty Rainforest --> better synergy with Brainstorm/Jace, we are HUNGRY of blue mana. The mana base in my opinion is still to be tweaked
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
On the dentist thing I have had my wisdom teeth taken out on 2 different appointments. The first one they put me to sleep and when I woke my mouth was hurting but not really really bad. The second they used some gas that makes you really high. Someone said its called the truth serum. But when I was done with that I couldn't walk because I was still high from it after the surgery. I couldn't feel anything in my mouth until it wore off. Either way works just the soreness comes later with the second.
Now back to the questions. I have been play testing and all I play against is storm and Eldrazi. I can't ever seem to beat either. Nether Void has yet to be any use because I can't get to 4 mana before I die. I can't beat eldrazi because I can't do anything about their ramping up. I don't have the NO on mtgo yet so I don't play test win it. Is there anything I can use for Eldrazi Ramp?
Edit: another question is since imperial recruiter is about to be made more accessible would that work in the jund version colors as a fierce Empath effect? He can get Huntmaster and Eternal Witness if needed.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CRich3
Now back to the questions. I have been play testing and all I play against is storm and Eldrazi. I can't ever seem to beat either. Nether Void has yet to be any use because I can't get to 4 mana before I die. I can't beat eldrazi because I can't do anything about their ramping up. I don't have the NO on mtgo yet so I don't play test win it. Is there anything I can use for Eldrazi Ramp?
Combo is rough. Best case, you can get the void out on T2 (T1 land + Explorer, T2 Tower) though w/ only 1 Void but 3 Rectors what I have happen far more often is a T2 Rector into a T3 Void. It is, often, not fast enough. In these matchups you really need to hit with your Therapy's to give you that little bit of extra time to either land the Void or resolve Memoricide/Cranial Extraction.
Sadly, you can't name one of posts w/ those cards, but if you can somehow bin one, you can Surgical/Extirpate it ;)
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I am also not liking Extirpate. Everytime I draw it I wish it was something else. Any ideas for a better card vs combo?
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
@Sherko7 and Arianrhod:
I hear your summons!
Like I said in my last post a few pages ago, I've actually been playing/advocating my Punishing Fire list as of the last couple months. Lambert101 has also reported success using that list.
That being said, I do still keep a G/B list up to date for when I feel the meta calls for it. I'm really high on P-fires right now, but to get started with the deck you could do worse than this list:
Land (23)
4 Bayou
4 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Swamp
2 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Creatures (15)
1 Acidic Slime
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
1 Grave Titan
1 Primeval Titan
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
Spells (23)
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard (15)
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Cranial Extraction
2 Damnation
3 Extirpate
1 Golgari Charm
1 Memoricide
4 Thoughtseize
If I were to play GB in a tournament tomorrow, (I wouldn't, I would PUNISH people) this is the list I would run.
One of these days I'll link my lists in a signature like all the cool kids, but in the meantime...
Hope this helps and welcome to the thread Sherko7 and enjoy!
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sderenatore
Snapcaster isnt a bad idea perse, but you cant flashback Visions with it, because the card doesnt have a mana cost, just a CMC.
I do like your list quite tho :)
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Viridia
Snapcaster isnt a bad idea perse, but you cant flashback Visions with it, because the card doesnt have a mana cost, just a CMC.
I do like your list quite tho :)
Ouch, that Snapcaster thing sounded so classy. Well this makes Snapcaster a lot worse then.
As long as I feel we are already strong against fair decks, in his place I will probably try 2x Thoughtseize. If you guys have any suggestion I would be happy to hear about it. What i find the deck lacks right now is a bit of non-board disruption.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Thx Qweerios and Arianrhod. Was doing some testing with the recor build and thought that birthing pod might have.a home here. Being able to sac rector to fetch moat and baneslayer seems real good. If anyone has tested let me know how its worked out.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Forgot to say what I would cut...prob -1 Masterof the wildhunt and -1 STEor witness
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Hopped here from MTGsalvation because the Thread there is basically being redirected to here...
Yesterday there were 3 (!) MUD decks in our 19 player TNM. I think it's time for Nic Fit to pack Ancient Grudges in the SB and more Abrupt Decay MB (that also vs CounterTop/ Helm of Obedience decks, where Pernicious Deed really shines)
Vs Mud, T1+2 are essentially vs Combo, except you don't want to strip their hand but screw with their mana, kinda like eggs. Fetching basics is essential if you don't want to be taken apart by Wasteland recursion (especially for me, running 2 splashes, that was some really tough decision time) and then finding a Deed and staying at 3, preferably 4 lands available is key. Deed or Pridemage recursion (through Sun Titan, Volrath's, Witness) is gg.
Oh and, them hitting 8 mana and playing Sundering Titan, or hitting 5 and sticking Forgemaster is gg ^^
Conclusion:
-Any NF deck that runs R now needs 2-3 Ancient Grudge and 1-2 Slaughter Games post board.
-Purely gravebased stuff is dead so I'd cut some Grave Hate for these (Deathrite Shaman and RIP rly keep Reanimator, Dredge decks etc. at bay). Cut Leylines unless you play Rector, keep the Spot Grave Removal.
-MOAR Abrupt Decay! It kills nearly everything.
-W splashes need their StP more than ever. T2 Wurmcoil is a thing...
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
So, basically, because there were 3 MUD Decks in your local 19 man tournament we all need atleast 3-6 pieces of dedicated hate against them?
If your local meta has alot of MUD Decks, then you should do that, but that doesn't mean we all should ;)
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CRich3
On the dentist thing I have had my wisdom teeth taken out on 2 different appointments. The first one they put me to sleep and when I woke my mouth was hurting but not really really bad. The second they used some gas that makes you really high. Someone said its called the truth serum. But when I was done with that I couldn't walk because I was still high from it after the surgery. I couldn't feel anything in my mouth until it wore off. Either way works just the soreness comes later with the second.
Now back to the questions. I have been play testing and all I play against is storm and Eldrazi. I can't ever seem to beat either. Nether Void has yet to be any use because I can't get to 4 mana before I die. I can't beat eldrazi because I can't do anything about their ramping up. I don't have the NO on mtgo yet so I don't play test win it. Is there anything I can use for Eldrazi Ramp?
Edit: another question is since imperial recruiter is about to be made more accessible would that work in the jund version colors as a fierce Empath effect? He can get Huntmaster and Eternal Witness if needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CRich3
I am also not liking Extirpate. Everytime I draw it I wish it was something else. Any ideas for a better card vs combo?
First up -- Recruiter isn't a horrible idea, although the fact that he can't be tutored himself stops the Fierce Empath comparison. He does find pretty much everything in the deck, though, which is good. Not sure of where you'd slot him in, though. He's also a pussy in a fight, so he doesn't directly contribute to the aggro plan (aka, cutting a Huntmaster for a copy, for example, would be a bad idea).
12post is a miserable matchup for Nic Fit in general, although Scapewish can probably fight it off. 12post and MUD are Nic Fit's natural predators. MUD goes slightly bigger much faster, and 12post goes much bigger slightly faster. Either way is a bad recipe for us.
Your best bet vs 12post is to try to Cranially Extract Ulamog, and then drop Humility. You still need to watch out for Emrakul taking infinite turns with Karakas, but getting rid of Ulamog + Humility will come pretty close to locking them out. That's really about all you can do, though.
Nether Void is effective, but as someone already pointed out, it needs to be paired with other disruption -- Therapy, ideally. Also, there is another way to get Void on turn 2 -- it involves a Rector and a Therapy after an Explorer/Tower. Those starts aren't common, but they do happen, and combo just folds to them. But yeah. Generally speaking, unless your hand is atrociously good besides, try not to keep a hand vs combo that does not have a Therapy in it.
Extirpate is fine vs combo. You just need to be smart about when you use it. The best time is after a Brainstorm in response to a Therapy, since you get a free peek, remove their Brainstorms, AND basically Hymn them. Think of your combo game this way: you aren't actively trying to win. You're trying to keep them from winning. Stripping out key pieces of their combo is how we do this. Like, vs High Tide, your gameplan is such: you Extirpate their cantrips as they're filtering to set up and Therapy them as much as possible without setting off an Explorer, while you assemble mana for Nether Void / Cranial Extraction, then you deploy one of those (Cranial names Time Spiral, then Cunning Wish). You might not think that Extirpating their cantrips does much, but trust me, it hurts them BAD. If they can't filter their post-Spiral hands, they run a much, much higher risk of bricking a Spiral, which usually means you win.
Just have a plan with Extirpate, preferrably one that synergizes with your knowledge in the game. If you Therapy TES (name LED), and you see a hand of say....LED, Ritual, Infernal Tutor, Burning Wish, City of Brass, Ponder, Ponder; your gameplan is to attack their mana. You Extirpate the LEDs, then you try to get the Dark Rituals. TES-guy has all the business in the world, so you go after his mana. If instead he had tons of mana and like one tutor, then you go after that. What you -don't- do is split your attention. If you try to take some of his mana and some of business, he's going to combo off on you. I like attacking mana sources vs TES because it both slows them down, which buys you more time for Extraction effects and Nether Void (which TES can't recover from, ever), -and- because it turns off Ad Nauseum for them. If they AdN and you've Extirpated...let's say their LEDs and Dark Rituals, then that means that they have Rite of Flames, Chrome Mox, and Lotus Petal to work with. This is going to make their life much harder when Ad Nauseuming because it'll be more difficulty to assemble the win AND because they'll be taking more damage per card on average.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Woe_Bringer
Thx Qweerios and Arianrhod. Was doing some testing with the recor build and thought that birthing pod might have.a home here. Being able to sac rector to fetch moat and baneslayer seems real good. If anyone has tested let me know how its worked out.
People have tried Birthing Pod a while ago -- it was found lacking. It was more of its own version as opposed to being shoehorned into Rector. It generally necessitated running too many "bad cards" that were only good when Pod was online, and even just playing Pod was seen as a liability because it's costly (both in life and mana), and slow (sorc speed). It also opens you up to splash Esperblade hate, because if you're taking the deck space to incorporate Pods and their attending packages, you're not running other options, which by default means that you're relying on Pod.
If you want to mess with it, go ahead -- but I wouldn't recommend it. Pod Fit is one of those curious relics of the past for the moment -- perhaps in the future it'll come around again, but I don't think that we're there yet.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Asatas
Hopped here from MTGsalvation because the Thread there is basically being redirected to here...
Yesterday there were 3 (!) MUD decks in our 19 player TNM. I think it's time for Nic Fit to pack Ancient Grudges in the SB and more Abrupt Decay MB (that also vs CounterTop/ Helm of Obedience decks, where Pernicious Deed really shines)
Vs Mud, T1+2 are essentially vs Combo, except you don't want to strip their hand but screw with their mana, kinda like eggs. Fetching basics is essential if you don't want to be taken apart by Wasteland recursion (especially for me, running 2 splashes, that was some really tough decision time) and then finding a Deed and staying at 3, preferably 4 lands available is key. Deed or Pridemage recursion (through Sun Titan, Volrath's, Witness) is gg.
Oh and, them hitting 8 mana and playing Sundering Titan, or hitting 5 and sticking Forgemaster is gg ^^
Conclusion:
-Any NF deck that runs R now needs 2-3 Ancient Grudge and 1-2 Slaughter Games post board.
-Purely gravebased stuff is dead so I'd cut some Grave Hate for these (Deathrite Shaman and RIP rly keep Reanimator, Dredge decks etc. at bay). Cut Leylines unless you play Rector, keep the Spot Grave Removal.
-MOAR Abrupt Decay! It kills nearly everything.
-W splashes need their StP more than ever. T2 Wurmcoil is a thing...
Aside from echoing what Viridia said, in that not all metas are your meta, I'm gonna say that if you have 3 MUD decks in your 19-man local, you probably shouldn't be playing Nic Fit in general locally. That said, there are a few things you can do:
If you're on Scapewish, Pulverize will win you games. The more they overcommit, the more you punish them for it.
If you're on PFire, then yeah, Grudge is your best bet.
If you're on Rector, put at least one Serenity in your board, and make damn sure you have a Qasali maindeck with probably the Sliver in the board, too.
If you're on G/B, pray to whatever deity(ies) you believe in.
If you're on a blue variant, Trygon Predator is a gentleman and a scholar. Run several.
But yeah. As I just said in my last post, MUD is one of the two decks that I regard as natural predators of Nic Fit. It's also rare enough in the meta as large that I wouldn't recommend people actively sideboard for it. It's expensive, clunky, and dies to its own inconsistencies as often as it cums all over its opponents face -- which makes it a poor choice for larger events. For your local, though, there isn't much you can do aside from the above, and running more spot removal....especially Decays, for their Chalices and Metalworkers. I'd really question if you want to continue playing Nic Fit locally in that kind of meta, though.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoneyT
@Sherko7 and Arianrhod:
I hear your summons!
Like I said in my last post a few pages ago, I've actually been playing/advocating my Punishing Fire list as of the last couple months. Lambert101 has also reported success using that list.
That being said, I do still keep a G/B list up to date for when I feel the meta calls for it. I'm really high on P-fires right now, but to get started with the deck you could do worse than this list:
Land (23)
4 Bayou
4 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Swamp
2 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Creatures (15)
1 Acidic Slime
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
1 Grave Titan
1 Primeval Titan
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
Spells (23)
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard (15)
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Cranial Extraction
2 Damnation
3 Extirpate
1 Golgari Charm
1 Memoricide
4 Thoughtseize
If I were to play GB in a tournament tomorrow, (I wouldn't, I would PUNISH people) this is the list I would run.
One of these days I'll link my lists in a signature like all the cool kids, but in the meantime...
Hope this helps and welcome to the thread Sherko7 and enjoy!
Hi! Thank you very much for the list! I've actually been lurking around for quite a while now and I had given thought of building this deck before but tried out other decks first. Starting to playtest Nic Fit recently though and all I can say is I love the theme, I love how it operates... And I especially love Golgari!:)
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
Aside from echoing what Viridia said, in that not all metas are your meta, I'm gonna say that if you have 3 MUD decks in your 19-man local, you probably shouldn't be playing Nic Fit in general locally. That said, there are a few things you can do:
If you're on Scapewish, Pulverize will win you games. The more they overcommit, the more you punish them for it.
If you're on PFire, then yeah, Grudge is your best bet.
If you're on Rector, put at least one Serenity in your board, and make damn sure you have a Qasali maindeck with probably the Sliver in the board, too.
If you're on G/B, pray to whatever deity(ies) you believe in.
If you're on a blue variant, Trygon Predator is a gentleman and a scholar. Run several.
But yeah. As I just said in my last post, MUD is one of the two decks that I regard as natural predators of Nic Fit. It's also rare enough in the meta as large that I wouldn't recommend people actively sideboard for it. It's expensive, clunky, and dies to its own inconsistencies as often as it cums all over its opponents face -- which makes it a poor choice for larger events. For your local, though, there isn't much you can do aside from the above, and running more spot removal....especially Decays, for their Chalices and Metalworkers. I'd really question if you want to continue playing Nic Fit locally in that kind of meta, though.
What's the other natural predator? Hypergenesis?
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EpicLevelCommoner
What's the other natural predator? Hypergenesis?
12post.
Hypergenesis is obnoxious as all hell, but it falls on its ass even harder than MUD does. I lump Hypergen in with Belcher -- sometimes they're going to have the nuts, and you're going to die because of the No-FoW Tax. But there's an equal number of times where you'll get your disruption off while they sculpt, or you'll slam down Nether Void, or you'll put in Humility off of Hypergenesis and laugh at them, or you'll Deed away the goblin tokens, or who knows.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
If I can sell my standard collection this weekend I will get a Nethervoid for SCG Cincy next month.
But I can answer all our questions about the Birthing Pod Version of Nic Fit. I played it for 8 months before switching to the Rector version. I can only compare it to Rector Fit because its the only two versions I have actually played and it is almost a completely different deck. Rector Fit is control, Pod is Aggro-Control. The one thing I noticed is the your match-ups are almost completely opposite. Against burn it is 50/50, if you don't die to combo in the first two turns you can usually rob them of everything before they get another chance. RUG is still a very positive match up and against Miracles you have a better chance of recovering from Terminus. But against decks like maverick and junk they can actually keep up with the power in the short run. But if pod stays active after they run out of cards you can recover a lot faster than they can.
The biggest issue I had with the birthing pod version is that you have to have a butt load of creatures and the 4 drop spot is always really weak. For 3 you have Kitchen Finks and for 5 you have Thragtusk and/or Deranged Hermit. But for 4 all you really have is Rector, Thrun, and Phyrexian Metamorph. Poding Kitchin Finks into Phrexian Metamorph copying Kitchin Finks is amazing. But poding in to 4 usually isn't worth it. But Sun Titan getting back kitchen finks is really hard for most slow decks to deal with. A big thing is you get to really abuse Recurring Nightmare.
Podding rector into a 5 drop is amazing, but running more rectors over birthing pod is even better. Rather than just getting value you get the answer you need on the spot. You don't really have space to abuse Rectors ability in a pod version or you will lose value of pod. So again you basically fighting with a recurring kitching finks.
To summarize it all, you need more cards in pod than pod can fit to make it as effective as the other version.
