[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralf

"Revenge is a dish best savoured cold."

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Could you squeeze in a Diabolic Intent, especially if there's already a DemiGod in the gy?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralf

"Revenge is a dish best savoured cold."

You gave me some ideas and after some testing I think "bolt" is better as "thoughtseize":

Revenge Fit by Ralf

1 Forest
2 Mountain
3 Swamp
1 Badlands
4 Bayou
3 Taiga
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Phyrexian Tower

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
4 Demigod of Revenge

3 Liliana of the Veil

3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Pernicious Deed

2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Abrupt Decay

3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy

SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 3 Slaughter Games


SB is down 3 cards.

Any good idea ?

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Wish I had Lilies online. No way im dishing out 88 tix each. List looks sweet regardless.

That Demigod list looks so sweet. I'm definitely going to run it if I can find a set of Demigods lying around. Have you tested it at all?

Playing Demigod certainly would take me back to 2008, playing him in Standard at the time.

I bet you could even get a few people with the trigger now-a-days, with them countering him before letting the trigger resolve.

An interesting line would be to Therapy yourself to discard one (or more), then drawing one with Top and getting both (or all of them).

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

So, the problem with Eldrazi is that nobody has crystalized a list yet. Your team's list plays 4 Wails main? Cool. I've seen a lot of lists that don't play any, or that play 2 copies. I suppose a more accurate way of phrasing my original assertion is that some Eldrazi pilots (and/or specific hands, because it's a MUD variant and plays no card advantage or filtering) will not have any means of favorably interacting with Rector.

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Right, however, having played 4 WW main I will go ahead and state that it is almost definitely correct, and anyone not playing 4 is not playing an optimal list. Any player who has done significant testing will be playing a list with lots of Warping Wails. We have tinkered around with different things but 4x WW is as constant as 4x Eldrazi Temple and 4x Chalice. This is to say that I believe the list that eventually crystallizes (as you put it) will be playing them - and the lists that aren't are not optimized.

[I'm snipping the rest of your post as I either agree with it or have no opinion.]

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

Everything to make their life miserable. The folowing about Eldrazi players missing their TKS LTB trigger.

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I agree with doing this, not because I think Eldrazi players are scum (rather, I know we are :wink:), but because if your opponent misses his TKS trigger he's a bad player and deserves to get the warning. Or he's true scum and is trying to scum you out of a card.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralf

"Revenge is a dish best savoured cold."

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List looks insane. Props.

League

2-1 Jund Depths
path and karakas did serious work

2-0 Infect
g1 2 decay, 2 pte, 1 deed. everything dead
g2 he mull to 3 and i stall on black. he goes for 9 infect. i stabilize

1-2 ANT
G1 he t2s me otp
g2 I surgical IT and he concedes
g3 he has prob-therapy for my 2 duress

1-2 Grixis Delver louisbach (asshole)
g1 triple YP draw and spells with no deed in sight
g2 delver is sht and i win
g3 i draw 18 of my 21 lands. he flames like all delver player.

2-1 Dredge
g1 m5(3 lands, deed, vet) he has therapy for deed. infinte zombies later, we dead
g2 i land scooz on empty board and win
g3 i therapy, vet, gsz for scooz, rhino and we win

Another 3-2 league. *sigh* these are so close. Been running a null rod in the board but havent seen it. seems good against decks here and there. I feel like i should never lose to delver.
I will look over the list and revamp it.
the list
http://imgur.com/5NOgZ3f
right click and open in new tab (idk what i did)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ricardio

League

2-1 Jund Depths
path and karakas did serious work

2-0 Infect
g1 2 decay, 2 pte, 1 deed. everything dead
g2 he mull to 3 and i stall on black. he goes for 9 infect. i stabilize

1-2 ANT
G1 he t2s me otp
g2 I surgical IT and he concedes
g3 he has prob-therapy for my 2 duress

1-2 Grixis Delver louisbach (asshole)
g1 triple YP draw and spells with no deed in sight
g2 delver is sht and i win
g3 i draw 18 of my 21 lands. he flames like all delver player.

2-1 Dredge
g1 m5(3 lands, deed, vet) he has therapy for deed. infinte zombies later, we dead
g2 i land scooz on empty board and win
g3 i therapy, vet, gsz for scooz, rhino and we win

Another 3-2 league. *sigh* these are so close. Been running a null rod in the board but havent seen it. seems good against decks here and there. I feel like i should never lose to delver.
I will look over the list and revamp it.
the list
http://imgur.com/5NOgZ3f
right click and open in new tab (idk what i did)

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Though luck. At least you get to play every day.
Why was the Grixis player an ahole? Lol.

How did the Thragtusk and DLD perform?

Check the SOI thread. What if we are getting a BG/WB Sigarda? From the last card leaked it seems like the angels have become the bad guys. If that's true it's a cool theme

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Originally Posted by rubblekill

Check the SOI thread. What if we are getting a BG/WB Sigarda? From the last card leaked it seems like the angels have become the bad guys. If that's true it's a cool theme

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A BG Sigarda turned over to the dark side. But i hope that it is a different Legendary so we don't have to choose.

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Originally Posted by Hmmm_Really?

Could you squeeze in a Diabolic Intent, especially if there's already a DemiGod in the gy?

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You could even sac your demigod in play to get another one.

But still, this is far too cute. The list does not contain enough creatures to constantly fire a Diabolic Intent.

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Originally Posted by TLK

That Demigod list looks so sweet. I'm definitely going to run it if I can find a set of Demigods lying around. Have you tested it at all?

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Yes, it has been tested (like every list I post here).
Nevertheless, I'm missing 3 cards SB right now as this can offer a 3 meta slot for anyone.

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Originally Posted by H

Playing Demigod certainly would take me back to 2008, playing him in Standard at the time.

I bet you could even get a few people with the trigger now-a-days, with them countering him before letting the trigger resolve.

An interesting line would be to Therapy yourself to discard one (or more), then drawing one with Top and getting both (or all of them).

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It is even better with Liliana +1.
I doubt you'll ever catch anyone "before" resolving the trigger but IF that happens...oh boy...!


@Thread:

As a reminder, this list is a "control" list.
Obviously, you'll get some of those very agressive hands but this is rather the exception than the rule.

For those who will play it, share your thoughts afterwards.
There is room for improvement here, and I'm not going to deny it (mostly SB wise).

Nevertheless, I find the list pretty well balanced right now.

Happy testing !

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

A BG Sigarda turned over to the dark side. But i hope that it is a different Legendary so we don't have to choose.

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Not sure what you mean, we can play both sigarda in play at the same time if they are different :) which would be sweeeett. Love black Angels.

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Originally Posted by Jain_Mor

Not sure what you mean, we can play both sigarda in play at the same time if they are different :) which would be sweeeett. Love black Angels.

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Well you can't have both versions of Akroma in play at the same time right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ricardio

I will look over the list and revamp it.
the list
http://imgur.com/5NOgZ3f
right click and open in new tab (idk what i did)

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Hello Sir,

Here are some food for thoughts:

1) 21 or 22 lands

When I'm playing 21 lands in Nic Fit, I'm stretching the manabase like there will be no tomorrow.
Mathematically speaking, this means you can't reasonably play 2 utility lands in here.

When I'm looking at your list, I count 14 G 11 W 11 B.
This is asking for trouble.

Here is the configuration I would prone (Karakas > PT)

14 G 14 B 14 W 21 lands

1 Plains
3 Forest
2 Swamp
4 Verdant catacombs
4 Windswept heath
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
3 Scrubland
1 Taiga
1 Karakas

This gives you everything you would need for casting T1 any G/B/W spell (veteran/cabal/PTE).
Also, you definitely want a T1 fetch -> forest against any unknown opp, opening you up for a T2 Scrub.
I believe this gives you the best operating system since you would be able to cast everything you need with just forest+scrub (at least all CMC<=2 spells).


2) Thragtusk

I feel you have too many high CMC bombs.
When one is playing 4 rhino, I truly believe that Tusk is not needed. This is even more true when you have access to DLD.

This gives you another creature slot.

I'm aware that Painful Truth can sometimes push you very low (lifepoints wise) and you'll have to assess what you better like in the following as I would either play:

+1 DRS
or
+1 Knight of the Reliquary

- DRS will further fix your potential life issue + mana issue. It is also the best PW for 1 mana
- KoTR is a huge GSZable beatstick. We might not have ways to abuse it like Maverick but I've grown very fond of this card. It is also another out to huge demons (fetching Karakas), at instant speed. Its ability to further thin the deck should not be overlooked (as the shuffle effect for top).

The only other bigger beatstick is Centaur Vinecrasher. But CMC 4 and no ETB trigger/ability is kind of harsh...


3) Sideboard options

Here is your list with a few comments:

2 Canonist
2 Surgical
3 Duress
1 Toxic Deluge -> Golgari Charm feels like a better SB cards. Regen Gaddock/Canonist can be a matter of life or death
2 Carpet -> I don't like those as we are playing DRS and SLG + useless against non blue deck. Nonbo with Deed.
1 Garruk Relentless -> Sorin, lord of Innistrad is a very strong consideration. Stealing Jace / Demons had happened quite often
2 SLG
1 Gaddock
1 Null Rod -> Interesting but as you have no way to cantrip/tutor, it feels like very random

Here is a revamped sideboard proposal:

1 Canonist
1 Thalia -> Canonist n°2 but better in some other MU. Could be protected with Karakas.
1/2 Surgical -> I believe with 2 DRS + 1 Ooze + 2 SLG + 1 Surgical = enough gravehate
3 Duress (I got your point about digital TS)
1 Golgari Charm -> faster than Toxic in the MU you care. Swiss Army knife against others.
1/2 Aven Mindcensor -> I've learnt to respect Da card, such a beating in so many MU + IT DOES trade with delver.
2 SLG
0/1 Gaddock -> I love the card but redundant/nonbo with SLG
0/1 Dryad Militant -> Faster than Gaddock (CMC 1 or GSZ @2) doesn't block SLG and drastically slow down a few MU
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1/2 Liliana of the Veil (Yes I know 88 Tix...) -> she is just a powerhouse vs combo/control/aggro AND you are playing Painful Truth.


Hope this will give you some ideas...

Legendary creatures do not use the "planeswalker" rule. They use their name. So yes white and red akroma can be in play. Both Glissas can be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

Though luck. At least you get to play every day.
Why was the Grixis player an ahole? Lol.

How did the Thragtusk and DLD perform?

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I said "well that's most of my lands. too bad I couldn't draw spells." he said "didn't matter, my deck is better," He kept spamming gg and then waited for a while and bolted me for the win. Waste of time, really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralf

Hello Sir,

Here are some food for thoughts:

1) 21 or 22 lands

When I'm playing 21 lands in Nic Fit, I'm stretching the manabase like there will be no tomorrow.
Mathematically speaking, this means you can't reasonably play 2 utility lands in here.

When I'm looking at your list, I count 14 G 11 W 11 B.
This is asking for trouble.

Here is the configuration I would prone (Karakas > PT)

14 G 14 B 14 W 21 lands

1 Plains
3 Forest
2 Swamp
4 Verdant catacombs
4 Windswept heath
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
3 Scrubland
1 Taiga
1 Karakas

This gives you everything you would need for casting T1 any G/B/W spell (veteran/cabal/PTE).
Also, you definitely want a T1 fetch -> forest against any unknown opp, opening you up for a T2 Scrub.
I believe this gives you the best operating system since you would be able to cast everything you need with just forest+scrub (at least all CMC<=2 spells).


2) Thragtusk

I feel you have too many high CMC bombs.
When one is playing 4 rhino, I truly believe that Tusk is not needed. This is even more true when you have access to DLD.

This gives you another creature slot.

I'm aware that Painful Truth can sometimes push you very low (lifepoints wise) and you'll have to assess what you better like in the following as I would either play:

+1 DRS
or
+1 Knight of the Reliquary

- DRS will further fix your potential life issue + mana issue. It is also the best PW for 1 mana
- KoTR is a huge GSZable beatstick. We might not have ways to abuse it like Maverick but I've grown very fond of this card. It is also another out to huge demons (fetching Karakas), at instant speed. Its ability to further thin the deck should not be overlooked (as the shuffle effect for top).

The only other bigger beatstick is Centaur Vinecrasher. But CMC 4 and no ETB trigger/ability is kind of harsh...


3) Sideboard options

Here is your list with a few comments:

2 Canonist
2 Surgical
3 Duress
1 Toxic Deluge -> Golgari Charm feels like a better SB cards. Regen Gaddock/Canonist can be a matter of life or death
2 Carpet -> I don't like those as we are playing DRS and SLG + useless against non blue deck. Nonbo with Deed.
1 Garruk Relentless -> Sorin, lord of Innistrad is a very strong consideration. Stealing Jace / Demons had happened quite often
2 SLG
1 Gaddock
1 Null Rod -> Interesting but as you have no way to cantrip/tutor, it feels like very random

Here is a revamped sideboard proposal:

1 Canonist
1 Thalia -> Canonist n°2 but better in some other MU. Could be protected with Karakas.
1/2 Surgical -> I believe with 2 DRS + 1 Ooze + 2 SLG + 1 Surgical = enough gravehate
3 Duress (I got your point about digital TS)
1 Golgari Charm -> faster than Toxic in the MU you care. Swiss Army knife against others.
1/2 Aven Mindcensor -> I've learnt to respect Da card, such a beating in so many MU + IT DOES trade with delver.
2 SLG
0/1 Gaddock -> I love the card but redundant/nonbo with SLG
0/1 Dryad Militant -> Faster than Gaddock (CMC 1 or GSZ @2) doesn't block SLG and drastically slow down a few MU
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1/2 Liliana of the Veil (Yes I know 88 Tix...) -> she is just a powerhouse vs combo/control/aggro AND you are playing Painful Truth.


Hope this will give you some ideas...

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I cut DLD for the second DRS.
I could see cutting tusk.
I finally bought seize so those are in place of duress now.
I can see cutting a bayou for a scrubland but I haven't had mana issues.
I will try sorin over garruk.
Mindcensor with vet is hilarious. Maybe I can find a spot or two, for the lolz.
KotR leans too hard on the gy and decks already bring in some form of hate so I will pass on her.
I will find space for a thalia but militant nonbos with cabal therapy.
Lily just wont happen. I cant justify committing 180 dollars to 2 digital cards. For less, I could finish the 8 post fit list.

thanks for all the input. its a lot to digest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ricardio

I said "well that's most of my lands. too bad I couldn't draw spells." he said "didn't matter, my deck is better," He kept spamming gg and then waited for a while and bolted me for the win. Waste of time, really.



I cut DLD for the second DRS.
I could see cutting tusk.
I finally bought seize so those are in place of duress now.
I can see cutting a bayou for a scrubland but I haven't had mana issues.
I will try sorin over garruk.
Mindcensor with vet is hilarious. Maybe I can find a spot or two, for the lolz.
KotR leans too hard on the gy and decks already bring in some form of hate so I will pass on her.
I will find space for a thalia but militant nonbos with cabal therapy.
Lily just wont happen. I cant justify committing 180 dollars to 2 digital cards. For less, I could finish the 8 post fit list.

thanks for all the input. its a lot to digest.

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That player is the worst, I confirm that. One time I had the board clear with a lethal rhino (attacking the following turn): he top decked a bolt ftw and proceeded to spread some bm in chat. The worst part is that I hate losing to delver because it's a good mu, and I hate it even more when they top deck bolt (seemingly) every time.

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Originally Posted by rubblekill

That player is the worst, I confirm that. One time I had the board clear with a lethal rhino (attacking the following turn): he top decked a bolt ftw and proceeded to spread some bm in chat. The worst part is that I hate losing to delver because it's a good mu, and I hate it even more when they top deck bolt (seemingly) every time.

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I can do without the Keyboard Warriors on mtgo. I am in the process of shipping a stack of unneeded foils irl which will be repurposed to mtgo. chances are, I will finish the post deck be it looks super entertaining.

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Originally Posted by Ricardio

I can do without the Keyboard Warriors on mtgo. I am in the process of shipping a stack of unneeded foils irl which will be repurposed to mtgo. chances are, I will finish the post deck be it looks super entertaining.

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Have you tried playing it?

Keyboard Warriors, lol. Good one.

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

Have you tried playing it?

Keyboard Warriors, lol. Good one.

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No, I have not but Fatal seems to be confident and anything that jams 4 Prime time is worth playing.
All the cards are things I should have, personally. I'm learning I gravitate to big creatures and removal, or so my friends tell me.

Haha yes, Basement dwelling, butt-monkeys