One RB gobs player was knocked out of top8 contention late by aggro loam at the 5K.
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One RB gobs player was knocked out of top8 contention late by aggro loam at the 5K.
I play an identical list, with -4moutains +4rishadan portQuote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus
It works really well. Piledriver are a must, if your opponent don't blast them they win you the game quickly.
Thorn of Amethyst are good against multiple decks. Like ANT, Belcher, Solidarity, Burn, and all other deck playing few creatures.
In SB i wont cut Pyrokinesis, 4of is a must too.
Iona, no. Iona on Red = you can't cast anarchy anyways. White Stax to an extent as you have no other out to Oblivion Rings, Moat, Ghostly Prison, Runed Halo, etc. But I can also see it being run as an out to Progenitus as well. While I've had no problem personally racing Prog with this deck (piledriver IS pro-blue), the players who play NO in my area are generally playing Bant or this one kid's own version of roguish G/U NO-Prog, where NO is pretty much only happening turn 3-4 at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moosedog
I was the one running that deck, was actually a really fun tournament with quite a diverse meta. The decks I played against were 3 Dredge, 2 Goblin Charbelcher, Fairies, and a mirror. I lost to one Dredge, Chris Higashi who went top 8, and one of the charbelchers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus
Kesta got it right on the Thorns.
As for the four piledrivers, they really help smash face quickly. The increased chance to have one opening hand is key to a lot of wins.
Did you bring in pyrokinesis against dredge? I know some people do this and some don't.
How did the belcher match you won play out? I'm guessing you got a thorn and he couldn't answer it, but you would have had to do this twice.
I didn't bring in the pyrokinesis against dredge, rather I just brought in the Relics and Crypts.
Belcher match was...fun. Game 1 he went first and stormed for Warrens to get 10 goblins. I played Lackey and passed, he swung for 9. My turn I threw down Stingscourger to bounce the token and connect with Lackey to play Siege Gang. His turn he just passed and kept his team untapped. My turn I played Chieftan and he picked up his cards.
Game two I had boarded in four Pyrokineses. He went first and just played a land and passed. I played a mountain and threw down Vial due to not having Lackey. The game progressed with him only playing two lands and me having drawn into Lackey and played it, along with two Matrons, Instigator, and Chieftan. He got some mana, used Burning Wish to grab Fallout, wipe my board, and end up storming again for 10 tokens. I was only holding two SCG and one Chieftan with four mountains and Vial at 3. I passed my turn as I drew another Chieftan. He swung with his team and I vialed down one of my Chieftans to block one. My turn I drew my fifth land and played SCG then passed. He held back his team and passed. I got a Lackey from top deck, played my second SCG and swung with one SCG and three tokens. He let them go through and I passed. He drew nothing and passed. I pulled a Pyrokinesis from top deck, removed the Lackey from my hand and burned four of his tokens then swung with my team. He lost the rest of his tokens blocking and then scooped next turn when he drew nothing.
I had thought about using Thorns against Belcher, but had just decided to use Pyrokinesis instead, can't even remember why now...
Also, this is just me trying my best to remember, it may have been a little different. I've only been playing Legacy for six months and am new to Magic competitions in general. Next time I will be taking notes so I can write up a tournament report.
I really like 2 MD Boartusk Lieage in MonoRed, but maybe that's just me. He is a really big guy, just by himself. He does not however, repleace Chieftain. They fill diferrent roles i my oppinion, Liege being way better agains't Zoo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moosedog
"Anarchy, iona? white stax? am I overlooking something?" - did not understood this part.
Utility box goblin is bad, and that is a consensous here from what I've seen. I tried and did not liked it.
As for the Piledriver number, I dropped 2 (of 4) for 2 Chieftains, and is working wonders.
Anarchy is an out to Progenitus, good against enchantress, landstill to an extent (if they run Humility), savage against The mighty quinn (not widely played, but who knows). I worked ports back into my list as I expect to see more enchantress at my next tournament (there are always a few), keeping them off WW can be huge.
I managed to pick up Lackeys and Wastes so that I can finally play this deck. (If and When I get tired of playing Dredge, that is.)
I've been running a version with 4 Mogg War Marshall 0 Instigator, 4 Incinerator, and 2 stingscourger, but since I couldn't find a second scourger to test with, I used a Sparksmith as a substitute.
Man, that card is such a beating to cast against any deck without burn and with creatures. It singlhandedly won me a game versus Eva Green by eating Tarmogoyf and Nighthawk, and I imagine it will do the same thing versus Bant, etc. Its one weakness is that you hae to wait a turn to get it rolling without a Lord, but it's repeatable and stays on the board, so it actually does more damage in one shot than Incinerator would.
Any thoughts?
I still run conventional Goblins with Ports and no Instigator or Chieftain. I run 3 Relic, 1 Liege and 3 Warshall in the open slots along with 23 lands. My maindeck is optimized to get me to the lategame where I can bury my opponent under card advantage generated by Incinerator and Matron > Ringleader. I really dont like Instigator and Stingscourger as they are only good in the aggressive role and I actually play the control role surprisingly often.
The sideboard is the area which I feel most improvement is to be gained.
4 Mindbreak Trap or 4 REB
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Anarchy
2 Boartusk Liege
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Goblin Tinkerer.
I refuse to be a glass cannon and with 8 cards to combat Combo I should have a decent fighting chance against the unsuspecting combo player.
Anarchy seems needed right now, White Stax, Enchantress and even white weenie are doing well right now and Anarchy is a major trump, just stall until you find one.
Anyway, what do you guys think about Mindbreak Trap? Is it good against ANT or should I stick to the more versatile REBs (also good against Merfolk)?
In your position I would stick with REB, as it is complementary hate with chalice. Plus I've seen you post that combination before, so you are probably more comfortable with it, and that's important in the matchup. In a vaccum mindbreak is perhaps better, but I think reb is the better choice in this situation.
I also agree that anarchy is in a moderately rare position where it is a great sideboard choice. Enchantress just won. Stax is more popular than ever. The new white weenie deck has emerged. And most importantly, progenitus.
Personally I'd rather play pyrokinesis over 8 SB cards for combo. Do you bring in chalice against zoo? Do you find it effective? This makes it so you have REBS for merfolk and Chalices for zoo, effectively replacing pyrokinesis for the main aggro matchups (except for the mirror), which is interesting. But I don't know how effective chalice really is.
Thanks for the feedback.
I do not expect a whole lot of Zoo and much more ANT hence my choice. Furthermore I have never been too impressed by Kinesis, I cant really put my finger on why. But in a metagame full of Zoo I would definately play and perhaps I will revise my opinion after this tounament.
I have a question about Thorn of Amethyst.
In which MU do you use it?
For me it's usefull against ANT, Belcher, Solidarity, Burn, Enchantress, Landstill, Canadian *****, Ichorid, ....
Maybe i made mistake but please discuss...
Does that include Mogg Fanatic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantis
Not sure if Thorn is good against Burn and Tempo Threshold, however it undeniably has some good applications against combo decks and to lesser extent Landstill. I should definately consider it as well.
@Nelis: No Fanatics, I rather use Relic to fill up the curve as Fanatic is just horrible in my opinion.
I can understand you do not like mogg fanatic but how much use are those relics in the main? What matchups do they really shine in and do you come across those matchups often enough to warrant a mainboard spot for Relics?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantis
I have taken up Goblins again after having played Zoo for the last couple of months. With Zoo I hardly ever had the need for graveyard removal apart for very specific situations (Reanimate and Aggro loam) but maybe it's different for goblins?
Oh and how many Siege-gangs do you run?
I do understand the choice of Relic is controversial, but I like them for a few reasons. Obviously Relic is devastating in some matchups such as Rock, Tempo Thre sh, Aggro Loam and Dredge and plain useless against decks that dont utilize the graveyard at all such as Merfolk. Relic does two things; it destroys Goyf and it digs for lands. I dont want to rely on just 8 one drops as Goblins 2 drops arent all that exciting. If you fail to make your first turn drop and the second turn you spend casting a Piledriver you are miles behind in terms of tempo and sit with a stacked hand. A Goyf and a Daze are all it takes for you to lose that game, however Relic allows you to threaten a trade with your Piley. If you play against a deck that doesnt utilize its graveyard, cycling it in the long run sets you back only a tiny bit and although this can cost you games it doesnt happen too often. If anyone has a better suggestion for the 1CMC slot I am all ears. Also keep in mind that I constructed my sideboard in such a fashion that I always have something remotely decent to side the Relics out for if my opponent doesnt use his grave.
I play 2 SGCs.
I think the turn 2 drop you are lacking in that situation is the instigator. I didn't like him too at the beginning but he puts so much pressure on the opponent that I would say 4 instigators are a must. If he doesn't get blocked he might bring a matron or ringleader and then something nasty you search for or reveal. He just HAS to be answered and that's exactly what goblins need in the 2 mana slot.
[edit]especially against zoo pyrokinesis works wonders. You have more cards giving card advantage then most other aggro decks, what you need is some additional free removal to make lackey/instigator connect and trade some cards for additional tempo vs blockers. It was the first sb choice for me.
That's a good point, maybe he should compensate the lack of good 1 drops with a good 2 drop, being Instigator. I myself play 3 at the moment after having used 4 for a while. Sometimes it is just a bit too much. I also went to a Rb list again. I just can stand bouncing a creature with Stingscourger only to have it return the next turn. I want to get rid of it!
I'd like to share my list with you to see what you think of it.
0cc (24)
8 Mountain
4 Badlands
4 Aunties Hovel
1 Bloodstaine Mire
3 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
I'm trying to minimize the amount of fetch but still have 1 black mana on turn 2. I'm still figuring out the right number here, so any thoughts on this matter are appreciated.
I'm also still in doubt about Rishadan Port. The way I feel about them now is either run 3 (or 4) or run none.
1cc (8)
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Aether Vial
2cc (11)
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Warren Weirding
3 Warren Instigator
I just love Warren Weirding and I think it's necessary because of Progenitus and Iona. They see more and more play nowadays.
3cc (11)
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
2 Gempalm Incinerator (basically a 2 drop)
1 Goblin Chieftain
I really like Goblin Chieftain and have tried about all configurations with Goblin Warchief. I like that both give our creatures haste. Giving each goblin +1/+1 is really great but I realized that I had just too many 3 drops and that a lot of times I had more use for each spell -1 cc from Warchief than +1/+1 from Chieftain. So I figured I'll just tutor for it when needed. It was a hard decision though.
I also have never been keen on Gempalm Incinerator and always had only one to tutor for or played just none. But lately my mind has changed a bit. It can come in very handy at times. It's good removal in midgame and has its uses sometimes on turn 2 where you'd like to remove a Dark Confidant for instance to have my lackey connect. So I went to 2 copies to increase the chances of drawing it a bit but I'm still not sure.
4cc (4)
4 Goblin Ringleader
5cc (2)
2 Siege-Gang Commander
I never like having a Siege-Gang commander in my hand without the chance to cast it so 3 is too much for me. Usually I either search for it with Matron or only need it when Vial is on 5. Two seems like the right number.
SB:
No definate sideboard yet but it will feature at least 3 Pyrokinesis and 4 Thorn of Amethyst and 1 Warren Instigator when I expect to encounter combo. There's not much combo in my meta but when I go to the bigger tournaments in Holland they're in.
I'd try to cut ports and work in some chieftains instead, they really work wonders with instigator. In my playtestings ports were mostly win more (like discussed earlier in this thread). Interresting idea to go black without fetchlands. I had most problems in games I didn't begin, I'd be very much interested in how often are you slowed down by wastelands?
I'm currently at 2 gempalms and 2 sgc too.