[Deck] Merfolk

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

My legacy scene is in, pardon me, crap, and I have to go to other countries for some nice legacy action.
This is why my list doesn't change much or why I am not writing more about it (or it works so no need for radical measures):

12 Island
4 Mutavault
2 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls

4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Phantasmal Image
2 Vendillion Clique

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Echoing Truth

Sideboard:
3 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Submerge (can be 2 Dismember)
2 Venser, Shaper Savant

I haven't touched Harbinger in legacy. Other than Delver of Secrets there is nothing else I would want to return.
Delver is ubiquitous but not enough for me to tamper with my 75. Things might change, but for now I am not a believer.

There is a big-ish legacy tournament across the border next month. Maybe I'll have something to say.

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Curious where you side in Vensers? Omnitell?

Omnitell of course, Show and Tell (for Batman and fat Robin), Reanimator, then Lands (Glacial Chasm and 20/20) and D&T (helping Cliques in fighting SoF&I).

Venser is often a fine answer to terminus against miracles. Wouldn't you bring it then?

Already have 2 Clique for that, but sure, instant speed threat that can at least counter a Terminus or return Mentor or whatever.
Venser can also return a piece of the combo against Painter even through his ReB, answer Ensnaring Bridge and plenty other stuff (legacy is huge).
It can even counter a f**king Supreme Verdict from UWr Stoneblade, which is nice.
Just like Echoing Truth in the main, I am rarely disappointed to see Venser in my hand.

Agreed :)

someone one went 3-0 on MTGO with this list:

Creature (27)
4 Cursecatcher
4 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
4 True-Name Nemesis
Instant (6)
2 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
Artifact (3)
3 Chalice of the Void
Land (20)
4 Cavern of Souls
12 Island
4 Mutavault
Other (4)
4 Aether Vial


Sideboard (15)
2 Arcane Laboratory 2 Back to Basics 1 Cursed Totem 1 Ensnare 2 Flusterstorm 1 Hurkyl's Recall 1 Relic of Progenitus 1 Tower of the Magistrate 2 Umezawa's Jitte 1 Vendilion Clique 1 Venser, Shaper Savant

Very streamlined with 4 harbinger MD, and Clique and Jitte in the side. Interesting choice, but I'm personally not ready to go that far given the meta I expect for the east coast this fall.

What meta he/she expects to have 4 Harbingers in the main? What nonDelver creatures can it return?

Let me try to do a count for "reasonable targets":

Goyf, Angler, Deathrite, Pyromancer tokens, Mother of Runes, Knight of the Reliquary, fatties from Reanimator (unfortunately not Elesh Norn...), Marit Lage tokens, a random Elf

Am I missing something? Doesn't seem anything like enough to me... Even though Harbinger seems like the dream card against Grixis Delver, so there is that.

Thought experiment: is Harbinger better than dismember against Grixis Delver? I would tend to say yes.

Maybe that's your answer :) he/she expected playing it every round...

I'm really torn. Sure it's useful as a Merfolk with tricks, but at the same time it's quite limited compared to our other options. It can't bounce your creatures to save them from removal. It can't return an Emrakul before it Annihilates you or Griselbrand before it draws them into a win. Is it a great card? Sure. Is it better than Echoing Truth, Jitte, and Clique? I'm not sure. In short, my sig.

I am testing out 2 Harbinger in my board right now. I really enjoy the synergy it has with Reej. However, I can't see the desire to play 4 in the main with no reej. I feel like its ability is too narrow, and, at least in my meta, I feel like there are better fish to play main.

Right, and how many Reejery and how many Harbingers are you planning on running? If they work well together, you'll want 4 of each to maximize the chances of drawing them. Of course, there's no room for that.

tl;dr;dead horse;broken record: my sig. Sure the cards are good. But they aren't better, and that's the key to any card choice.

After some time I decided that I'll play Merfolk at the next Legacy event in my area. While I played Merfolk in Legacy long time ago but haven't really touch it recently I have a question how does it do against most common/best decks in the Legacy (Grixis Delver, Omnitell, ANT, Miracles, Shardless Sultai, Stoneblade, Lands, Elves, Death and Taxes, Sultai Delver,...)?

In a nutshell, my view is:

Relatively good: Grixis Delver, Omnitell, ANT, Miracles, Shardless Sultai,Sultai Delver

Even: Stoneblade

Hard/relatively hard: Lands, Elves, Death and Taxes

You need to play True Name, Cavern and Chalice to do well in the current meta I believe, that are the main difference with the previous incarnation of the deck.

Post your list if you want more feedback on specific card choices

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

My legacy scene is in, pardon me, crap, and I have to go to other countries for some nice legacy action.
This is why my list doesn't change much or why I am not writing more about it (or it works so no need for radical measures):

12 Island
4 Mutavault
2 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls

4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Phantasmal Image
2 Vendillion Clique

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Echoing Truth

Sideboard:
3 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Submerge (can be 2 Dismember)
2 Venser, Shaper Savant

I haven't touched Harbinger in legacy. Other than Delver of Secrets there is nothing else I would want to return.
Delver is ubiquitous but not enough for me to tamper with my 75. Things might change, but for now I am not a believer.

There is a big-ish legacy tournament across the border next month. Maybe I'll have something to say.

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May I ask you if tournament you're talking about is the one at 10th october in Slovenia. If so cya there because I'm going to that tournament too and that way I won't be the only one playing fish which is nice to see.

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Originally Posted by Ayiluss

May I ask you if tournament you're talking about is the one at 10th october in Slovenia. If so cya there because I'm going to that tournament too and that way I won't be the only one playing fish which is nice to see.

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Then we have 2 Merfolk at the same tournament and you have my decklist :tongue:

That calls for 4 Llawans maindeck, definitely. :tongue:

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Originally Posted by dinosaurus

Hard/relatively hard: Lands, Elves, Death and Taxes

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Elves should not be an issues as we have Chalices in MD and some additional hatred in SB. For instance, I run 2x Cursed Totem and 3x Arcane Laboratory in SB and constantly win 2:0 against Elves.

Maverick is usually a troublemaker with its lands, but so far I have been wining against it 2:1. Pithing Needle helps against Maverick.

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Originally Posted by Chronatog

Elves should not be an issues as we have Chalices in MD and some additional hatred in SB. For instance, I run 2x Cursed Totem and 3x Arcane Laboratory in SB and constantly win 2:0 against Elves.

Maverick is usually a troublemaker with its lands, but so far I have been wining against it 2:1. Pithing Needle helps against Maverick.

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Sometimes they just have multiple natural orders and can go back to back, lost in top4 this week to a total of 5 natural orders across 2 games.

Not even that. They have multiple Decay and that Naturalize guy for 3 mana etb after sideboard. Cage and Chalice are never sticking around.

Yeah, I'm really wondering about the consistent 2-0 wins against Elves. It could certainly happen from time to time, but the word "consistent" is hard to believe judging by what I know about the decks.

I'm more suspicious of the appearance of Cursed Totem and Arcane Laboratory than anything else.

Of all commonly decks, I definitely view Elves as the matchup I least want to play against...

I can see how overloading on hate can win you some games, but in my experience elves is pretty good at dealing with multiple pieces of permanent hate. That makes me reluctant to devote much space to them in SB, which means I keep losing against it.

So I can definitely see why you've been winning much more than me against them. I'm just not ready to devote so much space in SB for this matchup. Even though cursed totem and arcane lab have applications in other matchups, I feel there are other cards I currently want.

Thanks for sharing your experience!

On a different note: what will happen if they ban DTT on monday? (I'm not convinced, but we'll see).

The main change I can see is OmniTell players returning to sneak & show, meaning I'll probably go back to 4 images.

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Originally Posted by dinosaurus

The main change I can see is OmniTell players returning to sneak & show, meaning I'll probably go back to 4 images.

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I was gonna say Grixis Pyromancer would take a hit. I thought Show and Tell players were already on the Omnitell train before either Dig or Cruise was played.

No major legacy events happened between the last ban date and now. I don't see DTT banned this time. Maybe next year.

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Originally Posted by ArielBlaze

Sometimes they just have multiple natural orders and can go back to back, lost in top4 this week to a total of 5 natural orders across 2 games.

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They can. MtG is a game of probabilities and sometimes my opponent has a better hand than I do. I don't have many counterspells in my deck, but Rushing River and Echoing Truth helped me on several occasions to take less than 20 and win on my next turn.

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

Not even that. They have multiple Decay and that Naturalize guy for 3 mana etb after sideboard. Cage and Chalice are never sticking around.

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The name is Reclamation Sage. Elves is a pretty tightly packed deck with not much space for sideboard cards. I usually expect a couple of Reclamation Sage and three to four Abrupt Decays in G2. Sage is ok since it can be FoW'ed. Abrupt Decay is more problematic, but needs black mana.

Again, it's all about probabilities. After SB I have 4x Chalice of the Void, Umezawa's Jitte, 2x Cursed Totem, 3x Arcane Laboratory, 4x FoW, 2x Echoing Truth, and Rushing River. And Elves bring significantly less hatred.

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Originally Posted by kirbysdl

Yeah, I'm really wondering about the consistent 2-0 wins against Elves. It could certainly happen from time to time, but the word "consistent" is hard to believe judging by what I know about the decks.

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This is my experience so far. Earlier this year, my first build of Merfolk had 4x Daze and no Chalice of the Void. And Elves were very problematic for me. And with my current build I perceive Elves as a relatively fair match up with probabilities slightly in my favour.

I am more concerned about Maverick as Mother of Runes and lands are major troublemakers. Elves are fine.

...and there goes DTT.

My prediction is that (i) sneak and show will replace omnitell, (ii) RUG/BUG delver will replace grixis delver; (iii) miracles will be a larger share of the winner's metagame.

I can also death & taxes and lands being better positioned now. Not sure about Elves though.

Overally, I think this is good news for merfolk I'd say!

I have to think a bit about to change my sideboard a bit (for instance, maybe spell pierce will make a come back)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

No major legacy events happened between the last ban date and now. I don't see DTT banned this time. Maybe next year.

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I stand corrected even if timing is not great.
At least good news for us I believe.

That's up for debate but chalice is getting a little worse: sneak and show and bug delver care much less about it than omnitell and grixis delver.

I'm considering cutting 1 MD if I need an extra slot (not sure what at this stage though)

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Originally Posted by dinosaurus

My prediction is that (i) sneak and show will replace omnitell, (ii) RUG/BUG delver will replace grixis delver; (iii) miracles will be a larger share of the winner's metagame.

I can also death & taxes and lands being better positioned now. Not sure about Elves though.

Overally, I think this is good news for merfolk I'd say!

I have to think a bit about to change my sideboard a bit (for instance, maybe spell pierce will make a come back)

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Hi Dinosaurus,
I would not say this is good news for merfolks...People who played Omnitell, Grixis Delver etc, can change decks. They can choose decks without islands:rolleyes:

Not everyone can (or should, since familiarity is important) change decks completely as they please.
Omnitell was not a great matchup for us in the first place (Boseiju and playing around Daze, even Pierce). It was ok-ish.
Switching that to Show&Tell is a lot better.

I played merfolk years ago and always loved it. I get the reason to play chalice of the void in the Treasure Cruise and DTT era (since it stopped the cantrips that fuelled those decks): do you guys think that now Chalice will be good as before?

Are there any changes you guys are planning to do? I know there won't be any big changes and there's no reason for it but just a few here and there. Is Chalice still good enough to play or it is better to go for Daze?

The turn 2 chalice got a lot weaker as alot of decks will be shifting away from the full cantrip package. I would wait a weekend or two to see the sum total changes. If rug gets big I will likely be going back to junk nicfit, or if shardless seems to be top contender, bloodmoon decks are back in.

I have a tournament in a week, that's why I asked and want to be prepared to it. Maybe I'll try Dazes and see how it works. After that tournament I'll go back to Death and Taxes.

Switching Chalice for Daze is worth thinking about I believe. If BUG and Sneak and Show are back in force, it might be worth it. Let's see how the meta changes.

I'm preparing for the eternal extravaganza at the end of the month, and if it was tomorrow, I would play the following 75:

4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 True Name Nemesis
4 Phantasmal Image
2 Vendilion Clique

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Mutavault
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Mishra's Factory
12 Islands

Sideboard:

3 Chalice of the Void
3 Dismember
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
2 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
2 Venser, Shaper Savant

Comments welcome :)

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Originally Posted by dinosaurus

I'm preparing for the eternal extravaganza at the end of the month, and if it was tomorrow, I would play the following 75:
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Lord of Atlantis
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Daze
4 Mutavault
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Mishra's Factory
12 Islands
Comments welcome :)

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Is 12 Islands enough to be able to use Dazes efficiently? Or to be able to use them early in the game at all?

Is 15 Blue mana sources enough to be able to cast UU spells earlier in the game? Especially since you don't use Vials.