[Deck] Zoo

Hi guys! is there an average amount of removals needed in a regular zoo list (not the Big Zoo) ?
I would like to maindeck 2 Price of Progress, but i'm still hesitating about what to remove : critters or removals ? Is there a minimum amount that it is better not to go lower ?

I currently the following removals suite :
4 Lightning bolt
3 Path to exile
3 Lightning helix
2 Chain Lightning

Here's the rest of the list :

20 lands

4 Steppe Lynx
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Goblin Guide
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Kird Ape
2 Sylvan Library

I was thinking to do so -1 chain lightning - 1 kird ape

The meta is composed of merfolks, elves, landstill and junk-variants.
any thoughts or criticisms are welcome!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oxmo39

Hi guys! is there an average amount of removals needed in a regular zoo list (not the Big Zoo) ?
I would like to maindeck 2 Price of Progress, but i'm still hesitating about what to remove : critters or removals ? Is there a minimum amount that it is better not to go lower ?

I currently the following removals suite :
4 Lightning bolt
3 Path to exile
3 Lightning helix
2 Chain Lightning

Here's the rest of the list :

20 lands

4 Steppe Lynx
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Goblin Guide
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Kird Ape
2 Sylvan Library

I was thinking to do so -1 chain lightning - 1 kird ape

The meta is composed of merfolks, elves, landstill and junk-variants.
any thoughts or criticisms are welcome!

---

Your list looks fine for regular Zoo. Most "normal/small" Zoo builds will want to run 3-4 Paths and a bunch of Bolts/Chains/Helices (plus Lavamancer). If you want to go faster, you might consider removing the Paths entirely and adding Fireblasts and PoPs. Big Zoo builds tend to run fewer removal.

could people who play mm tell me about how it has tested? what cards do you play it over in fast zoo? LISTS PLEASE!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

If Maverick gets big in the states, would Flash of Defiance be worth considering in the board?

---

I have a hard time believing it's better than Naya Charm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I have a hard time believing it's better than Naya Charm

---

Fortunately, we don't have to worry about that because neither are playable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CorpT

Fortunately, we don't have to worry about that because neither are playable.

---

Bingo :wink: And I have laid the Glittering Wish discussion to rest...appreciated your feedback.

@jnosrati: I've always had that problem with MM in Zoo. What exactly do you cut? I haven't ran MM Zoo because I haven't been able to answer that with a list I like. It's really list dependent on what to cut since I see it as sort of protection and sort of utility. Running 13+ 1cc guys? Maybe cut 1. Maybe cut to 3 Path. Maybe a burn spell if you're running 11-12 already. Should you run more Knights because you can protect them a little now? Does fast Zoo even want it? I think 3 is the right number if you do.

I've played Cat Sligh with 3 MM since you only have 16 beatsticks and burn slots 22-24 were really weak anyway. I would recommend it if you want to play something Zooish with MM.

My most recent tournament list:

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
3 Magma Jet
3 Mental Misstep
2 Forked Bolt

3 Plateau
2 Taiga
2 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire


//Sideboard
2 Serenity
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Ethersworn Canonist

Serenity is your one stop shop for ruining Chalice/Enchantress shenanigans. The Combo/Dredge hate is there. Vortex/Lavamancer come in against control and are mostly gold. You can replace the Forked Bolts MD with a burn spell of your choice, but I think Magma Jet is too good to cut.

It plays like Zoo for the most part, except your outs to some(maybe all) stuff is basically "Burn the shit out of them." Helps against decks that rely on Deed/Firespout for defense, less good against big guys and Hymn. Combo is better since you can possibly kill T3, but they're still faster than you. Still not a good matchup.

I fail to see how Magma Jet is better than Sylvan Library...and you don't have any Paths/Swords anywhere in your 75.

It's not better, it's fulfilling a different role in the burn deck than Sylvan does with the zoo deck

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I fail to see how Magma Jet is better than Sylvan Library...and you don't have any Paths/Swords anywhere in your 75.

---

Even though the TL;DR version of my post was "Hey, I don't have a MM Zoo list I've felt comfortable with, but here's some suggestions on how to make room for it and a tested list that's a cousin of Zoo that plays MM and a little on how the matchups slightly differ from Zoo," I suppose I'll answer your questions anyway.

Magma Jet and Sylvan Library are not comparable in this deck. Jet is 3 of your 7 ways to kill something at instant speed(without destroying your manabase), while also removing chaff and helping the burn cause mid/late game. Amazing utility while still synergistic. Library is more comparable to Vortex, and Vortex does the job of "hard to deal with game accelerator" better, since the deck has 21 burn spells MD. Library also can't do anything about life gain, which is a bit of a problem sometimes with Cat Sligh.

Path is also not burn. Your answer to big guys(as with most of the things Cat Sligh deals with) is hopefully have dealt enough damage to them to burn them out. Goyf isn't a huge deal, Knight comes out T3 at the earliest, and still can't race you if that's the only problem. The manabase can't support Path since you have to leave a white source open to waste, and that is not a great idea when you're only running 3 actual white sources, all of which can get wasted. To support it you would have to run non-Mountain lands, which leads to Fireblast becoming worse, which leads running Pridemage because it's too good to not run if you can support it, which leads to playing Zoo. That's why I think of Zoo sometimes as "Sligh with specific outs".

Edit: God damn it, jandax. I spend 20 mins on this wall of text and you say what I said in 20 words. Fucking internet.

:wink: Should have read the line that said 'cat sligh' and noticed the Goblin Guides...I wouldn't have even questioned it had I taken the time to look closer. I suppose I'm still curious (but less so) about the lack of Path/Swords as an answer to non-burnable threats.

EDIT: I'm also sold on the Sulfuric Vortexe's in the sideboard...I don't play cat sligh, but they have proven their worth many times. I've occasionally played up to 4 sb.

EDIT: you explained the lack of Path/Swords well. Wasteland and it's implications show up again...and spot removal is less important than fast damage to the dome FTW. You can add to that list: Swords/Path don't deal with the big bad non-burnable threats that could outrace you anyways like Progenitus and Emrakul, so it's worse than useless there too...because it isn't burn. Well said...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexAI

Even though the TL;DR version of my post was...

Edit: God damn it, jandax. I spend 20 mins on this wall of text and you say what I said in 20 words. Fucking internet.

---

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg...6xdzo1_400.gif

MainDeck (60)

Creatures
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Steppe Lynx

Spells
2 Sylvan Library
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
4 Mental Misstep
2 Price of Progress

Lands
2 Plateau
4 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Forest

SIDE
4 surgical extraction
2 tormods crypt
3 Pyroblast
2 red elemental blast
2 choke
1 krosan grip
1 gaddock teeg


Originally i had cut pop, but i now realize that other than dredge, it hits for 8-10 a lot. Thats great in a sligh list. Its also my out to NO rug, which is a problem.
Maindeck teeg has been my thing for as long as i can remember. Highly recomended. NO, dread return, and JACE, moat, humility, all of stax, elspeth, fow, submerge, ad nauseum, ill gotten gains, etc.
MM is great here, as it protects my lynxes and nacatls turn 1 as well as hitting every dredge target. Dredge is everywhere in Los Angeles.

Why not just play more threats instead of MM?

I mean, counterspells in Zoo?

I may not be a smart man, but I know what threat density is...But hey, who am I to talk? I suggested Glittering Wish, lol.

@jnostrati: There is a thread in the Developmental decks section called 'Blue Zoo' that i think you should check out. It's an unorthadox zoo list that has a strong blue presence, which makes great use of Mental Misstep (and further bonus cards like Brainstorm and the like) which would be appropriate to learn how Misstep can augment a zoo-like setup.

@ Jandax. MM is effectively a threat. When my turn 1 gets countered vs blue decks, i protect it. This gains tempo. Why wait until turn 2 when steppe lynx is much worse and you dont beat for three and play another nacatl when you can just protect it.

@ mr safety. I looked at blue zoo, but its dreadfully slow and inconsistant. also, not fetching basics ever is just bad. In theory it works, but some parts of zoo get nuked by the blue. FOW was just not part of the zoo gameplan. i'm not trying to stall that much. Think about it, 2 teegs vs a fow? Teeg is good... My goal is to distrupt a dredge heavy meta. with mm, i can counter every discard outlet in dredge, and if i am on the play, it is never expected to follow up a nacatl, so they will never draw discard on me.

Overall, it is a beast, allowing me to protect turn 1 steppe lynx(much worse turn 2) and nacatl, gain a whole turn vs dredge at a minimum, and usually take out the pesky tireless tribe, and distrupt all kinds of combo. I tried blue zoo with just daze (because brianstorm and such were really just there for the fow pitch) and 2/2 nacatls were not that fun. Also, daze + lynx was very relevant, but it still was not the same. A resolved wl can really ruin your day, so you need redundance in mana sources, as well as basics for the POP kill, which is imo one of the best cards here. Testing without it proved to be horrible.

@ everyone, i'm editing my above maindeck so i dont repost.

I think you're looking at MM in Zoo too much in a vacuum. Sure, it does protect your spell from a 1cmc spell.

I think you'd be happier just playing through counters instead of around them. For all the decks that aren't going to be countering your stuff, you have extra dudes or burn. It's your deck, have fun, but I doubt you're selling anyone else on MM in Naya Zoo

I can not believe why you keep discussing about CatZoo/FastZoo how ever you wanna call it. Actually it is out of time but still gains some good rankings because it is easy to handle.

Atm I am playing a BigZoo list which works perfectly against MF, Thres, GW, Painter. Only Combo is a bad Match Up.

4x Wild Nacatl
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Qasali Prodemage
3x Tarmogoyf
4x Knight of the Reliquary

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Chain Lightning

2x Sylvan Library
3x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4x Green Sun's Zenith

20 Lands inkl. 1 Dryad Arbor and 2 Wastelands

SB Slots are not fixed exept:

3 Thrun
1 Karakas
2 Jitte

This is working perfect and I have totally no problems with Mental Misstep. Try it!

last 2 Tournaments I went 5. and 4. of ~40

5. because of a loss against Goblins with too much Wastelands and Removal and a loss in the mirror match because that guy topdecked perfectly.

4. because of 2 draws against GW (Sylvan Safekeeper made one game) and Landstill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stumPen

I can not believe why you keep discussing about CatZoo/FastZoo how ever you wanna call it. Actually it is out of time but still gains some good rankings because it is easy to handle.

Atm I am playing a BigZoo list which works perfectly against MF, Thres, GW, Painter. Only Combo is a bad Match Up.

---

If I took that to my LGS, I would get destroyed. I don't think you can say that BigZoo is definitively better than FastZoo.

I need speed and removal. I race the control decks and back it up with burn and out-removal the tribal decks. I just don't see a BigZoo deck doing well against the majority of the decks I see at my LGS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stumPen

Fragmented English

---

Please use proper grammar and punctuation when posting on The Source. It makes it easier for members to better comprehend your thoughts and provide feedback.

I love Cat Zoo. Seriously Steppe Lynx > Noble Hierarch. It really comes down to play style though. If I wanted to fiddle with mana dorks and Green Sun's Zeniths, I'd play Bant or Maverick.

How's Thrun, the Last Troll working as a 3-of in the board for you? You can tutor it with GSZ so 3 seems excessive. I'd bring it down to 2.