Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Dingo
It's cute, but I have to agree with U mage that turning on my opponents removal in G1 is a pretty unappealing idea. Especially if I want my opponent to board out the removal in G2 so I can bring in Teeg unopposed. I'm also not sure which matchups this is supposed to improve? The ram courser "lock" seems much softer than a solitary confinement lock.
It's just an idea in order to test and think about another way for Enchantress.
About removals, I see only StP because Liliana and decay work on everything and all creatures are bolt-proof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Dingo
What would you remove from the maindeck in order to accommodate these creatures?
I would like to change everything because the deck is for me too weak, too based on few cards counterable and mainly Enchantress has scarcely cards to manage opponents.
By example remove at least x4 wild growth because there is no deck with so many accelerator and Enchantress isn't a quick combo deck. It needs, for me, creatures (for defense/attack/Liliana), removal/control cards to manage opponent's board and combo players.
By the way, it's just an idea to try something new because after many years with Enchantress, I'm personally convinced that classical enchantress can't be competitive actually. But I oblige no one to try my crazy idea. If you like I will be happy, otherwise never mind!
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dihensoeur
By example remove at least x4 wild growth because there is no deck with so many accelerator and Enchantress isn't a quick combo deck.
This, right here, shows that your biggest problem with Enchantress is that you don't understand how to play it. Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl are indispensable when "going off" with Enchantress because they're effectively 0 mana draw spells as long as you have an untapped land to enchant. They enable turn 2 Argothians through Daze and turn 2 Presences and GSZs for 2. Without the acceleration 8 Growth effects provide we'd be far, far worse off because our limitation is that Enchantress is too slow to compete against combo rather than being weak in noncombo matches. Adding creatures isn't going to help the deck; it's going to make it worse in its worst matchups. As for interaction, we have removal for any permanent and ways to give ourselves shroud. That's all we need unless you want to add discard.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
btm10
This, right here, shows that your biggest problem with Enchantress is that you don't understand how to play it. Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl are indispensable when "going off" with Enchantress because they're effectively 0 mana draw spells as long as you have an untapped land to enchant. They enable turn 2 Argothians through Daze and turn 2 Presences and GSZs for 2. Without the acceleration 8 Growth effects provide we'd be far, far worse off because our limitation is that Enchantress is too slow to compete against combo rather than being weak in noncombo matches. Adding creatures isn't going to help the deck; it's going to make it worse in its worst matchups. As for interaction, we have removal for any permanent and ways to give ourselves shroud. That's all we need unless you want to add discard.
This... You need a VERY good reason to board out the card, let alone remove it altogether. This card forms the backbone on which the deck's consistency hinges.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
With so much discussion about dig through time and treasure cruise I can't help but think that the main deck RIPs are going to help us gain even more traction against U/R delver, and patriot delver. The U/R delver list that won the Jersey SCG open seems like perfect prey for us, and I can't hope but help that it grows in popularity. The Elephant grass keeps young pyro under wraps, and slows monastery swiftspear significantly, since that card is only dangerous when they can cast many spells per turn.
If combo decks like Show and Tell also pick up dig through time, that could be good for us potentially, but the downside is that they gain a LOT of consistency if we are unable to exile their GY.
What are your thoughts? Is there anything we should be doing to capitalize on the newest legacy toys?
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Dingo
With so much discussion about dig through time and treasure cruise I can't help but think that the main deck RIPs are going to help us gain even more traction against U/R delver, and patriot delver. The U/R delver list that won the Jersey SCG open seems like perfect prey for us, and I can't hope but help that it grows in popularity. The Elephant grass keeps young pyro under wraps, and slows monastery swiftspear significantly, since that card is only dangerous when they can cast many spells per turn.
If combo decks like Show and Tell also pick up dig through time, that could be good for us potentially, but the downside is that they gain a LOT of consistency if we are unable to exile their GY.
What are your thoughts? Is there anything we should be doing to capitalize on the newest legacy toys?
Agree completely. I think the fact that many blue decks are now going to become more graveyard reliant is good for us, it might be time to bank more heavily on the RiP/Helm plan than ever before, maybe going back upto 4 RiP MD. Lots of the BUG variants are talking about running some number of Treasure Cruise as well meaning that an early unanswered RiP will turn off like 10-12+ cards in their MD. I don't think the RiPs will be as significant against the decks running Dig Through Time since it seems those will mainly be combo variants such as Omni, Sneak&Show, etc. which can operate even without a graveyard - it'll maybe give a couple extra percentage points to us that we didn't have before but overall those decks will operate similar to how they always have against us.
Basically the popularity of Treasure Cruise should help our Delver matchups at the very least.
On a side note I've been thinking about giving UB Tezz another look, with 4 Leyline of the Void and 1-2 Helms, could be good (and Abrupt Decay-proof)
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
btm10
Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl are indispensable when "going off" with Enchantress because they're effectively 0 mana draw spells as long as you have an untapped land to enchant. They enable turn 2 Argothians through Daze and turn 2 Presences and GSZs for 2. Without the acceleration 8 Growth effects provide we'd be far, far worse off because our limitation is that Enchantress is too slow to compete against combo rather than being weak in noncombo matches. Adding creatures isn't going to help the deck; it's going to make it worse in its worst matchups. As for interaction, we have removal for any permanent and ways to give ourselves shroud. That's all we need unless you want to add discard.
I wonder what people's experiences are with Exploration? I've seen lists running it, but not yet tested it much myself. It seems to me that it fits into the Wild Growth/Utopia Sprawl slots. Like them, it becomes a zero-mana draw spell while comboing off, given the right conditions. The right condition for Wild Growth being an additional untapped land to enchant, while the right condition for Exploration being an additional land in hand. Obviously the condition for Exploration is slightly more restrictive, but on the other hand it can net you a lot of mana if the additional land you play is a Sanctum.
So I wondered whether people who have run some number of Exploration have replaced some number of Wild Growth and/or Utopia Sprawl to fit them in?
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
siqatzi
I wonder what people's experiences are with Exploration? I've seen lists running it, but not yet tested it much myself. It seems to me that it fits into the Wild Growth/Utopia Sprawl slots. Like them, it becomes a zero-mana draw spell while comboing off, given the right conditions. The right condition for Wild Growth being an additional untapped land to enchant, while the right condition for Exploration being an additional land in hand. Obviously the condition for Exploration is slightly more restrictive, but on the other hand it can net you a lot of mana if the additional land you play is a Sanctum.
So I wondered whether people who have run some number of Exploration have replaced some number of Wild Growth and/or Utopia Sprawl to fit them in?
I currently have 1 exploration in the deck, because I like the way it allows mid to late game explosiveness. At one point I had as many as 3, but the problem with exploration is that it is very bad in the beginning of the game. Having multiples in an opening hand does much less for an explosive start than having multiple wild growths.
But if you draw one or two when you start going off, it feels like you can just draw and play your whole deck off of multiple sanctums. It certainly makes it much easier to cast emrakul, or to make sigil very productive the turn on which you play it.
I would recommend trying 1-2 explorations in addition to the 8 wild growth and utopia sprawl just to get a feel for it, since it can lead to some crazy draw chains. I don't think it can be a replacement, and I don't really think it provides help much in the early/mid game, when we are most vulnerable.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Dingo
I currently have 1 exploration in the deck, because I like the way it allows mid to late game explosiveness. At one point I had as many as 3, but the problem with exploration is that it is very bad in the beginning of the game. Having multiples in an opening hand does much less for an explosive start than having multiple wild growths.
But if you draw one or two when you start going off, it feels like you can just draw and play your whole deck off of multiple sanctums. It certainly makes it much easier to cast emrakul, or to make sigil very productive the turn on which you play it.
I would recommend trying 1-2 explorations in addition to the 8 wild growth and utopia sprawl just to get a feel for it, since it can lead to some crazy draw chains. I don't think it can be a replacement, and I don't really think it provides help much in the early/mid game, when we are most vulnerable.
Thanks very much! I'll try 1-2 in addition to the other forms of ramp and see how it feels.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
So I'm brand new to the site and first time poster but I have been reading along and feel its time i join in the conversation. I have been playing G/W Enchantress for about 2 years now. Just trying to now get opinions on my build that I'm trying to get together for GPNJ
Creatures:
1 Emrakul
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
Spells:
4 GSZ
1 Banefire
Artifacts:
1 Helm of obedience
Enchantments:
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Suppression Field
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Rest in Peace
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Elephant Grass
1 Oblivion Ring
Lands:
1 Karakas
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept heath
4 Forest
1 Plains
Sideboard: (in Flux)
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Engineered Plaque
2 Dread of Night
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Melira
So a few things i would like input on is
#1 yes i know Im splashing 2 colors, enchantress to me had gotten rather stale and ppl started to expect my typical build so I went for something a little different the black splash is for sideboard options and the red is for the singleton Banefire that has been so far exceeding my expectations
#2 is what your thoughts are that I can change in the sideboard so far me and my test group believe that in GPNJ we are going to see a lot of U/R delver, Miracles, Infect and D&T and i feel that my 75 has decent shots against them
So some of my card choices and 4 color splash are a little weird and I would like to explain why I'm making those decisions
the first is my desire to splash the 4th color for banefire in testing I have come to dread opponents planeswalkers and this gives me a sure fire way of just dealing with them that my opponents A don't see coming and B cant be countered(also helps when you can just throw it at your opponents face without fear of a counter)
suppresion field has been the best thing this deck has had since sliced bread! hands down mvp vs infect and Miracles it just does everything for me(most of you already know that about the card thought)
the 4th elephant grass is just a meta choice my meta is very aggro based just as i believe GPNJ will be and its the best stopper out there.
Melira...yeah ... infect can hurt best thing i can think of gsz target
carpet of flowers in side board...not even sure if i want it there or in main
Thanks!!!
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
If you're splashing red, you should run Blood Moon. The card is insane right now. I haven't tested Banefire yet, but it seems very strong.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
btm10
If you're splashing red, you should run Blood Moon. The card is insane right now. I haven't tested Banefire yet, but it seems very strong.
Blood moon is strong and it is going to be in my sideboard for gpnj
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mickeymouck
So I'm brand new to the site and first time poster but I have been reading along and feel its time i join in the conversation. I have been playing G/W Enchantress for about 2 years now. Just trying to now get opinions on my build that I'm trying to get together for GPNJ
Creatures:
1 Emrakul
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
Spells:
4 GSZ
1 Banefire
Artifacts:
1 Helm of obedience
Enchantments:
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Suppression Field
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Rest in Peace
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Elephant Grass
1 Oblivion Ring
Lands:
1 Karakas
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept heath
4 Forest
1 Plains
Sideboard: (in Flux)
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Engineered Plaque
2 Dread of Night
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Melira
So a few things i would like input on is
#1 yes i know Im splashing 2 colors, enchantress to me had gotten rather stale and ppl started to expect my typical build so I went for something a little different the black splash is for sideboard options and the red is for the singleton Banefire that has been so far exceeding my expectations
#2 is what your thoughts are that I can change in the sideboard so far me and my test group believe that in GPNJ we are going to see a lot of U/R delver, Miracles, Infect and D&T and i feel that my 75 has decent shots against them
So some of my card choices and 4 color splash are a little weird and I would like to explain why I'm making those decisions
the first is my desire to splash the 4th color for banefire in testing I have come to dread opponents planeswalkers and this gives me a sure fire way of just dealing with them that my opponents A don't see coming and B cant be countered(also helps when you can just throw it at your opponents face without fear of a counter)
suppresion field has been the best thing this deck has had since sliced bread! hands down mvp vs infect and Miracles it just does everything for me(most of you already know that about the card thought)
the 4th elephant grass is just a meta choice my meta is very aggro based just as i believe GPNJ will be and its the best stopper out there.
Melira...yeah ... infect can hurt best thing i can think of gsz target
carpet of flowers in side board...not even sure if i want it there or in main
Thanks!!!
I like your maindeck, which is very similar to my own. Probably why I like it so much.
In regards to the sideboard, the 2 dread of night seem weird to me, unless you are in a weird meta full of DnT and Maverick. Is there a reason for having 2 of them?
Are the engineered plagues there for elves? I could definitely get on board w/ 2 of those, since recent experience w/ elves has shown that I need some help in the MU.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Dingo
I like your maindeck, which is very similar to my own. Probably why I like it so much.
In regards to the sideboard, the 2 dread of night seem weird to me, unless you are in a weird meta full of DnT and Maverick. Is there a reason for having 2 of them?
Are the engineered plagues there for elves? I could definitely get on board w/ 2 of those, since recent experience w/ elves has shown that I need some help in the MU.
Yeah the 2 dread of night is for those, we have a small legacy meta (sneak and show, maverick, d&t, merfolk and infect with few others every once and a while. I'm not running sterling grove so sometimes hitting dread is very unlikely, and I have yet to beat our death and taxes player once
The EPs are in the board for 1 elves we have 1 player who likes to show up time to time, but also for merfolk and again d&t
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mickeymouck
Yeah the 2 dread of night is for those, we have a small legacy meta (sneak and show, maverick, d&t, merfolk and infect with few others every once and a while. I'm not running sterling grove so sometimes hitting dread is very unlikely, and I have yet to beat our death and taxes player once
The EPs are in the board for 1 elves we have 1 player who likes to show up time to time, but also for merfolk and again d&t
You may want to try 2-3 Swords to Plowshares That helps keep the pesky Hatebears clear in D&T, and works against Infect, Merfolk, and Maverick as well It's on-color to boot.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freggle
You may want to try 2-3
Swords to Plowshares That helps keep the pesky Hatebears clear in D&T, and works against Infect, Merfolk, and Maverick as well It's on-color to boot.
Definetly going to try that out
on another note anyone here going to GPNJ?
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
friends, plz tell me why do everybody began to play Eidolon of Blossoms. It dies by stp and bolt. so why dont you play enchantress for 3 mana? it wiil be more easy to cast it and to find it with zentih
we will not draw a card, if they counter it. so?
i understand, that the difference, that it draws a card for itself, and thats all about advantages above Verduran Enchantress?
second question about not playing sterling grove. so much abrupt everywhere. so we cant protect our permanents
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Loxmatii
friends, plz tell me why do everybody began to play Eidolon of Blossoms. It dies by stp and bolt. so why dont you play enchantress for 3 mana? it wiil be more easy to cast it and to find it with zentih
we will not draw a card, if they counter it. so?
i understand, that the difference, that it draws a card for itself, and thats all about advantages above Verduran Enchantress?
second question about not playing sterling grove. so much abrupt everywhere. so we cant protect our permanents
Well, the thing about Sterling Grove is that we don't particularly need it right now. The prevalent decks are DnT, Delver, Miracles, Elves, Sneaky/Show, BUG Shardless. Elves runs the utility elf for disenchanting but that's really all that actually targets our enchantments. Beyond that the decks primarily rely on counters or generic SB answers to deal with our enchantments. Once we resolve an enchanment more than likely its gonna stay there. Yeah, Grove is a tutor but blue decks absolutely LOVE it when we lose a turn via tutor as they'll just counter it. This is one reason why many decks have fallen back more heavily onto cards like Guile for filtering our draws. Grove can still be run but there's very little purpose in running it anymore.
Even ETutor can be removed our kept at 2 and that's primarily for tutoring your Helm once you've established a soft lock.
Forlorn
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Loxmatii
friends, plz tell me why do everybody began to play Eidolon of Blossoms. It dies by stp and bolt. so why dont you play enchantress for 3 mana? it wiil be more easy to cast it and to find it with zentih
we will not draw a card, if they counter it. so?
i understand, that the difference, that it draws a card for itself, and thats all about advantages above Verduran Enchantress?
second question about not playing sterling grove. so much abrupt everywhere. so we cant protect our permanents
Eidolon of Blossoms draws cards upon ETB, so a 4-point Green Sun's Zenith will at least replace itself. This has saved my life more than a few times. And if you ever actually cast it it triggers your enchantresses and cantrips.
I feel like, as good as Sterling Grove is, it's just too damn slow. The card does actual nothing on its own and it doesn't stop them from just killing you.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Loxmatii
friends, plz tell me why do everybody began to play Eidolon of Blossoms. It dies by stp and bolt. so why dont you play enchantress for 3 mana? it wiil be more easy to cast it and to find it with zentih
we will not draw a card, if they counter it. so?
i understand, that the difference, that it draws a card for itself, and thats all about advantages above Verduran Enchantress?
second question about not playing sterling grove. so much abrupt everywhere. so we cant protect our permanents
Having one Eidolon of blossoms turns a top deck GSZ from a wasted turn into at least a cantrip, which is actually pretty great. It also diversifies our GSZ-able enchantress effects so that we don't get blown out by golgari charm taking down multiple argothians in one go.
As for sterling grove, I stopped playing it because of multiple suppression fields maindeck. Also, I would prefer to play redundant copies of all the important effects rather than tutoring for them.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Went 5-3 at the Legacy open on Sunday.
4 Argothian
1 Emrakul
1 Eidolon of blossoms
3 GSZ
4 Enchantresses presence
4 Elephant grass
1 Exploration
2 Mirri's Guile
1 Oblivion ring
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sigil of the empty throne
3 Solitary confinement
3 suppression field
4 Wild growth
4 Utopia sprawl
1 Helm of obedience
1 Bayou
1 dryad arbor
7 forest
1 karakas
1 plains
1 savannah
4 serra's sanctum
4 windswept heath
SB
4 Leyline of sanctity
1 gaddock teeg
1 melira
1 reclamation sage
2 Engineered plague
2 sterling grove
1 humility
1 grafdigger's cage
1 o ring
1 choke
R1 2-0 vs Burn Not much to say about this match. Solitary lock won both games.
1-0
R2 1-2 vs Reanimator I mull to 5 G1, never find a forest, die to griselbrand several turns later. G2 grafdigger's cage T1 followed by lots of not doing much for a while. He was unable to beat the cage however. G3 I had a great hand, which is never good enough to beat great reanimator hands, especially on the draw.
1-1
R3 2-1 vs UR delver I don't really remember specifics, but elephant grass and suppression slowed the beats for many turns before I assemble helm/RIP combo. G2 he keeps me off enchantress and kills me quickly w/ delvers and swiftspears. G3 was a repeat of g1.
2-1
R4 2-1 vs UWR Control He uses his counters and main deck council's judgements (2 of them) to blow up my enchantresses, but I assemble the RIP helm combo off of some lucky top decks to win the game. G2 was similar to G1, except there was no lucky helm/rip win, and I die to Jace and too V clique. G3 Once again elephant grass and suppression field work in tandem to slow my opponent, while I fight my way through counters, removal, V clique, and Jace fate seals to hard cast emrakul.
3-1
R5 2-1 vs UR delver He beat me down to 4 w/ a variety of creatures, while I set up a lock. In all honesty, he should have won this game easy, but he had one delver that refused to flip for about 4-5 turns. G2 I lose to bolts and delvers. I remember very little of G3 except that we went to time, and I won on turn 3 of extra turns with helm.
4-1
R6 2-1 vs elves G1 I kept a super sketchy hand w/ RIP, helm, sanctum and some lands. I survive to turn 4 and helm him. G2 I got hoofed really hard. G3 I accelerate into T2 enchantresses presence which he decays, and then T3 argothian and RIP which he spends his 4th turn decaying. He gets some nettle sentinel beats going until I hit E plague, then another E plague a turn later locks him out. I really feel like we have to get super lucky to win this match. Does anyone have any advice for this match?
5-1
R7 0-2 vs RUG delver w/ treasure cruise and young pyromancer instead of nimble mongoose. Keep a pretty decent hand G1 that let me cast argothian w/ daze mana on T2. It resolves. Then I draw a bunch of white enchantments and no plains. My board when I died was 4 forests and an argothian, and my hand was emrakul, sigil, 2 solitary, helm, RIP, suppression field. Game 2 I resolved a T2 enchantress then proceeded to draw forests for 4 straight turns.
5-2
R8 1-2 vs UR delver G1 he wins w/ minimal difficulty, keeping me off of anything useful. G2 my only hope was that he didn't have Force of will for my Helm, which he didn't, so helm resolved and we went to G3. I keep a decent hand w/ multiple enchantress effects, but he gets lots of early pressure, and I was unable to establish any meaningful lock in time. Fatigue also may have contributed to some play errors, but I can't guarantee that I would have won, even w/out the mistakes.
5-3
I played against UR delver 3 times, and I believe that elephant grass is key to defeating these decks, since they often want to play multiple spells a turn to trigger swiftspear or young pyromancer, and e grass does a wonderful job of constricting their mana. The combination of elephant grass and suppression field was especially effective in this regard, and many opponents commented on their frustration at playing against these 2 cards.
My hands were often made awkward by having way more white spells than white mana, and I want to cut a RIP (and maybe a solitary confinement) for more 1 CMC green enchantments. Possibly a 3rd Mirri's guile, since the card is so amazing to have in the early game.
