[Deck] Merfolk

I know that Perish misses some critters: it only attacks one of their three colors so it's bound to. That said, I'd rather face a Kird Ape than a Tarmogoyf. I'd rather face a Lynx than a KotR. It also kills Pridemages and Nacatls, the dangerous Bant critters (or even all of them?), Progenitus, and Elves. It's far from perfect, but it seems damn good... if you're splashing anyway. Most people don't splash black, and it's almost certainly not worth splashing black JUST for Perish.

EDIT: You said to remove Vial. OK then.

After almost 8 hours of testing, I'm going with the mana denial plan. -4 Cursecatcher, +4 Stifle, as well as Kira/Jitte split in the "flex slots," in 16-lord non-Standstill merfolk.

I love how that perfectly explains my list.

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

I noticed that a lot of Merfolk lists have resorted to 16+ lords.

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More than 16 lords? Do they have some super secret tech that I am unaware of or are they simply cheating?

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Originally Posted by sadface

More than 16 lords? Do they have some super secret tech that I am unaware of or are they simply cheating?

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16+ lords = 4 Lord of Atlantis/4 Merrow Reejerey/4 Merfolk Sovereign/4 Coralhelm Commander/X Kira (I somehow count Kira as a lord)

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After almost 8 hours of testing, I'm going with the mana denial plan. -4 Cursecatcher, +4 Stifle, as well as Kira/Jitte split in the "flex slots," in 16-lord non-Standstill merfolk.

I love how that perfectly explains my list.

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Not having cursecatcher is really going to hurt your blue matchups including the mirror due to losing the counter/daze wars. Also really hurts you vs the black discard decks and combo decks.

I'm not sure of what you were testing in those "8" hours of testing, but I would be interested to know what matchups you tested and how you came to the conclusion that cutting cursecatcher is a good idea

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Originally Posted by SlopeeJ

Not having cursecatcher is really going to hurt your blue matchups including the mirror due to losing the counter/daze wars. Also really hurts you vs the black discard decks and combo decks.

I'm not sure of what you were testing in those "8" hours of testing, but I would be interested to know what matchups you tested and how you came to the conclusion that cutting cursecatcher is a good idea

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Who loses blue matchups with merfolk?

I was testing Zoo and Goblins. Stifle makes both of these matchups winnable.

The Merfolk-Zoo MU depends on the Zoo build- Lynx or non-Lynx. Were running Berton fish right now and its a pretty even MU with Zoo right now (me Zoo, my brother Fish). The 3rd turn Kira is pretty much so back breaking for Zoo. Commander is a house against Zoo also.

Ok, so bear with me for a second while I prove how much I suck.

I was thinking about reconsidering Cosi's Trickster. Here is my reasoning:

1) The current trend in Merfolk is to increase threat density. That's why the Berton build runs 16 lords and a Mishra's Factory. One card in particular that stands out is Coralhelm Commander. Why? Because he doesn't need any lords in order to become huge. He can threaten the game by himself. Now consider what recent Zoo lists are running: Steppe Lynx and KotR. What kind of strategy does this promote? Tons and tons of fetching. So you drop this guy early, with all the fetching that Zoo is doing, he's bound to get huge. Lacks the evasion that Coralhelm has, but hey you didn't have to pump 4/6 mana into it. Plus, that's what Sovereign is for.

2) Why Trickster and not Wake Thrasher if you want to add another beater? (1) He costs 1, which is a pretty sweet deal when you have 10 other 3-drops. (2) He doesn't shrink every turn, which means he can actually block and he won't randomly die to bolt.

3) One thing I noticed about Coralhelm is his ability to act as a lightning rod. You put Zoo into a lose-lose situation: either kill the huge guy and risk letting the lords live and make everything else big, or kill the lord and risk losing to the one huge guy. Of course, in the case of Trickster, his lack of evasion doesn't have quite the same effect, but it's similar.

4) Again, he only costs 1. Zoo's turn 1 play is gonna be a 3/3 or a 2/3-4/5. Your current options for turn 1 are... a 1/1 Daze. Trickster is something you can play on turn 1 that actually means something against Zoo.

I know it's been lackluster against Zoo in the past, but I feel that with the current technology of 16 lords.dec and Coralhelm Commander, there might be a way to make it work. I think it might be worth testing.

Okay, I think I'll stop being bad at this game now.

I've been testing a build that runs 16 lords and Tidal Courier. The increase in threat density and more pump effects has made Tidal Courier and attractive option, IMO. Cutting Standstill's for Tidal Courier not only gives the deck a non-conditional draw engine, it gives the deck additional bodies.

I have not tested this against Zoo yet, which clearly the Kira build would be better against because of all of their removal. However, I did just 2-1 Goblins with this list.

In game 1, he had a double Vial start to my single Vial start, but I was the beatdown because he had no cheap Goblins to play early. He eventually got 2 Goblin Piledriver's in play, but I had way too many lords in play for it to matter (all of my guys were huge). Needless to say, I won game 1 and he had 2 Piledriver's in play.

I lost game 2 due to me never seeing any Islands and drawing 4 Daze's (although I did get to pitch 1 to a FoW). I did have a Vial, but Lightning Crafter owned my face in this one.

In game 3, neither of us had a Vial. He had an early Pryokensis + Gempalm Incinerator for my Lord of Atlantis and Merrow Reejerey. I played back to back Tidal Courier's to refill my hand, and just like in game 1, I ended up with alot of big guys on board and he simply couldn't compete.

Now, this was just one 2/3 game set of course, which is too small of a sample size to truly evaluate. However, I did just 2-1 Goblins and I didn't have a sideboard built. That's right, I played all 3 games with the stock list (no sideboarding), and he was sideboarded in games 2 and 3 (Pyrokenisis was all I saw).

I'm not sure what this does for the Zoo matchup, but I don't see why drawing multiple creatures with Tidal Courier when you're behind against Zoo would be bad. Rather than blank their removal with Kira (which is probably the better plan, don't get me wrong), I just refill my hand with more Merfolk than they have removal. Eventually some good Merfolk's are gonna stick.

Just for reference:

Merfolk

Lands (21)
14 Island
4 Wasteland
3 Mutavault

Creatures (28)
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merfolk Sovereign
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Tidal Courier

Spells (11)
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 AEther Vial

I know one immediate criticism will be that there are not enough Merfolks to run Tidal Courier, but if you compare the Goblin lists that run 4 Aether Vial, 3 Lightning Bolt, and 23 Lands, this deck only has 2 less Merfolk than they have Goblins, yet they still run Ringleader just fine. Usually, I'm averaging 2 Merfolk per Tidal Courier. During some goldfishing, I whiffed one time, getting 0 Merfolk with Tidal Courier, but put a whole bunch of useless lands/Dazes to bottom (was a good thing). Usually, if you're capable of casting Tidal Courier, you don't want to see any more Vials, land, or Dazes, so even when you're drawing 1-2 Merfolk, you're still increasing the quality of your draws tremendously.

I've been pleased so far, figured I'd share it with you guys. I'd like to test the Zoo matchup soon, but to be honest, I think the whole reason to play Merfolk is to beat a field of blue (metagame deck). If I knew the field was going to be dominantly Zoo, I just wouldn't play this deck.

EDIT: I just tossed a sideboard together, so I figured I'd include it with the list.

Sideboard (15)
4 Cold-Eyed Selkie
4 Mind Harness
4 Spell Pierce
3 Relic of Progenitus

The Selkies come in against anything blue (the reason I'd play this deck in the first place). The Mind Harness comes in against Zoo and other green aggro like New Horizons. Spell Pierce comes in against combo and control. The Relic's are just for whatever randomness, from Dredge to Lands. It's not a finalized sideboard by any means, and it might be a good idea for it to include Kira's for the Zoo matchup instead of (or in addition to) the Mind Harness. Like I said, I just figured I'd post the sideboard I just made for it since I posted the list above without one.

EDIT 2: Actually, with combo being lessened because of Mystical Tutor, I'm curious if moving the Force of Wills to the sideboard would be a good idea. That would open up even more space for increased threat density, which should not only improve the Zoo matchup (FoW is horrible there, more creatures is good there), but seems like it would improve all of the matchups but combo. Even against control, you still have Wasteland/Daze/Cursecatcher, which is more disruptive than what Goblins has, yet you maintain the card advantage engine with Silvergill and Courier. I'm thinking dropping 4 FoW for 3 Wake Thrasher and the 4th Mutavault could be really good, with the FoW's going into the sideboard. This is speculative, but I'm curious how a build like this would fare in the new metagame. The deck becomes alot more like Goblins, except you have some strong advantages over Goblins, like Islandwalk/evasion and soft counters MD/hard counters SB. Plus, you know, way more lords so your guys are much larger (which also beats E Plague), and flying to beat the random Moat. You lose out on removal, but make up for that with all of the evasion and larger creature size, and gain Daze/Cursecatcher to improve control/combo with FoW/Pierce in the board to make those matchups even better postboard.

Thanks for bringing Cosi Trickster's pro's. Can we use this as a replacement for Cursecatcher since this is more on the aggro route. Cursecatcher is good being a control but if we want to speed up the clock for merfolk, this would be a better addition.

The comparison between this and coralhelm is also good. but you only trigger coralhelm's ability when you have a excess mana. I also have a situation in which i just left this at 2/2 since im using my muta for attack and this will be better than doin a level up..

Most of the deck nowadays is having 6 to 8 fetches which is also considerably good matchup for cosi. Any additional feedback if the play with cosi trickster is good.

Thanks!

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Thanks for bringing Cosi Trickster's pro's. Can we use this as a replacement for Cursecatcher since this is more on the aggro route. Cursecatcher is good being a control but if we want to speed up the clock for merfolk, this would be a better addition.

The comparison between this and coralhelm is also good. but you only trigger coralhelm's ability when you have a excess mana. I also have a situation in which i just left this at 2/2 since im using my muta for attack and this will be better than doin a level up..

Most of the deck nowadays is having 6 to 8 fetches which is also considerably good matchup for cosi. Any additional feedback if the play with cosi trickster is good.

Thanks!

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While you continue to try and strengthen a bad matchup, you weaken what was a good matchup. At a certain point, the matchup that used to be good is going to not be so good. Cursecatcher is amazing against control decks, which will be much harder for you to deal with with less card advantage (Standstill) and less disruption (Cursecatcher).

Would Cosi's Trickster be a good sideboard option then?

I have a feeling that shes either on main or not at all option.

I haven't really touched merfolk in a while (due to the prevelance of Zoo in my meta). I will try to playtest Hanni's proposed list and see if I do with it.

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I haven't really touched merfolk in a while (due to the prevelance of Zoo in my meta). I will try to playtest Hanni's proposed list and see if I do with it.

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My list is just experimental. And to be honest, I'm actually playtesting a version without Force of Wills right now. I think making the deck more like Goblins (higher threat density) gives the deck a better matchup against aggro decks (Goblins, Zoo), and I think that it doesn't sacrifice much, if any, against the blue decks to drop FoW. I think the only matchup that FoW was really good against was the combo matchup, which seems to be less relevant without Mystical Tutor, making FoW better off in the sideboard.

Keep in mind, this is experimental. Meaning, I'm going against the grain and thinking outside the box and taking a risk that may end up getting myself called a noob.

I hate to be "that guy," but I'm going to post the FoW-less list that I've been ravaging people with on MWS:

// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
6 [UNH] Island
3 [A] Tundra
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
3 [WWK] Sejiri Merfolk
1 [LRW] Sygg, River Guide
4 [TSB] Lord of Atlantis
4 [ROE] Coralhelm Commander
4 [M10] Merfolk Sovereign
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [AP] Tidal Courier

// Spells
3 [NE] Daze
4 [DS] AEther Vial

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 4 [6E] Serenity
SB: 4 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte

The deck has been absolutely brutal. I played a Goblins list a few years ago that splashed blue for 3 Daze, instead of black for Cabal Therapy (which was popular at the time) to try and improve the combo matchup while improving other matchups. I really enjoyed the build, but it was difficult consistently having U on turn 1 for Daze, and it left the deck vulnerable to early Wastelands. Being already in blue with Merfolk, that pretty much fixes the issue I had with it in Goblins, where it was actually really good in the deck. That's essentially what this list feels like, except I think Merfolk are much stronger because of all the evasion and pump effects.

The sideboard is a mess; I decided to go with Jitte against opposing aggro because my threat density is high enough to abuse it, and it should be easier to cast without tempo loss (cast and equip in the same turn) since I run 22 lands vs the normal 19-20.

Tidal Courier has easily been MVP for me in several matches now, quite a few times grabbing me 3-4 Merfolk's a cast, essentially refilling my hand completely. I'm not sold on Wake Thrasher at all, it has been rather lackluster in testing so far.

EDIT: Ultimately decided on a white splash for Sejiri (but unfortunately no Mutavault's).

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Originally Posted by Hanni

My list is just experimental. And to be honest, I'm actually playtesting a version without Force of Wills right now. I think making the deck more like Goblins (higher threat density) gives the deck a better matchup against aggro decks (Goblins, Zoo), and I think that it doesn't sacrifice much, if any, against the blue decks to drop FoW. I think the only matchup that FoW was really good against was the combo matchup, which seems to be less relevant without Mystical Tutor, making FoW better off in the sideboard.

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I was just gonna talk about going FoW-less (and even Daze-less). My reason is tempo lost. Yes, tempo lost.

Think about it, losing a card or a land drop to a permission, is it worth it? With the apparent meta going aggro, can we really race other decks by stop a spell that would cost us the examples above? I was thinking of using Spell Snare and Spell Pierce instead. Even Divert is a good candidate.

Also, I believe Hanni makes a good point on raising the threat density. Speaking of increased density, I will actually try to fiddle with Cosi's Trickster. I am going to replace Cursecatcher with it and see how it goes. I have probably diluted the permission suite, but I think the high threat density should compensate for it.

It occurs to me that I may want to post a list with my suggestion. Note that I came up with the following list before all of Hanni's FoW-less suggestions, so it might be possible to combine the ideas somehow. (Easiest solution: replace the Wake Thrashers with Cosi's Tricksters!)

Lands:
12x Island
4x Wasteland
4x Mutavault
1x Mishra's Factory (<-- 13th Island maybe)

Creatures:
4x Cursecatcher
4x Cosi's Trickster
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Coralhelm Commander
4x Merrow Reejerey
3x Merfolk Sovereign

Spells:
4x Aether Vial
4x Daze
4x Force of Will

SB:
2x Kira
13x other stuff

Thoughts:
1) Moved Kira to side simply because you really only want it against Zoo, it costs 3, and it's not a Merfolk. It's pretty much a liability against every other matchup.
2) Took out 1 Merfolk Sovereign because I personally think it's the worst lord. Also helps smooth the curve for the next change:
3) Took out 1 land since I just removed 3 3-drops.
4) It was suggested to replace the Cursecatchers with Trickster. I tried doing that once and I hated not having Cursecatcher. Big no! (Just side him out against Zoo or Goblins!)

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1) Moved Kira to side simply because you really only want it against Zoo, it costs 3, and it's not a Merfolk. It's pretty much a liability against every other matchup.

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That seems true until your 6 mana Coralhelm or Fish King get beat by farmers

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Originally Posted by SlopeeJ

That seems true until your 6 mana Coralhelm or Fish King get beat by farmers

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Yes, but I feel like against most decks that aren't Zoo or Goblins, it's more likely that you can afford to lose the Coralhelm or Lord to removal and still threaten to win.

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Think about it, losing a card or a land drop to a permission, is it worth it? With the apparent meta going aggro, can we really race other decks by stop a spell that would cost us the examples above? I was thinking of using Spell Snare and Spell Pierce instead. Even Divert is a good candadate.

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I don't think tempo lost is the problem. Both spells actually promote tempo by being "free." Being set back a land drop with Daze is bad if you're relying on lands to get creatures into play, but is amazing with AEther Vial, and the same argument could be said about Wasteland (setting back a land drop).

The fact is, Daze lets you curve out while still having an answer, whereas Snare and Pierce don't. Daze helps ensure you resolve that turn 1 Vial, and forces decks to get extra lands into play (through Wasteland) before they can successfully resolve bombs like Firespout. This actually creates way more tempo than you might lose from getting set back a land.

The problem with Force of Will also isn't tempo lost, because clearly Force of Will is the king of tempo. The problem is that Force of Will is a 2-for-1, and you're almost always going to be pitching a creature in the 16 lord lists that people have been running lately. Is Forcing that Lightning Bolt worth losing what could have been 2 creatures in hand, instead? That's where my issue with Force of Will lies, against any deck that isn't getting a 3-for-1 or better with their removal (Firespout, WoG, etc).

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That seems true until your 6 mana Coralhelm or Fish King get beat by farmers

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1 Swords to Plowshares isn't a big deal, and that's not the purpose of Kira. Kira is an answer to decks that run alot of removal; basically, an answer to Zoo. The question is, IMO, is it better to just roll with a heavier threat density, instead of playing Kira as a 2-of without any draw/search outside of Silvergill?

Just for the record, I'm testing this sideboard plan vs Zoo (in the list I posted without FoW):

-3 Daze
+3 Umezawa's Jitte

I have 31 bodies to carry the Jitte (35 if you count Mutavault), which is way more removal than Zoo runs, so someone will stick. Jitte is nasty in this matchup, I guess the question is, will I survive long enough to get an active Jitte going?

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It occurs to me that I may want to post a list with my suggestion. Note that I came up with the following list before all of Hanni's FoW-less suggestions, so it might be possible to combine the ideas somehow. (Easiest solution: replace the Wake Thrashers with Cosi's Tricksters!)

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It may actually be a good idea for me to cut Wake Thrasher for Cosi's Trickster. I'm heavy at the 3cc spot (11), and it may be better to cut some 3cc guys for some 1cc guys. Right now, my only turn 1 plays are Vial and Cursecatcher.

I'm going to try:

-3 Wake Thrasher
+3 Cosi's Trickster

...and I'll let you know how the playtesting turns out.

EDIT: Sejiri Merfolk almost makes me want to splash white. Sygg, River Guide is pretty sweet too (in white).

Stonybrook Banneret is pretty interesting, as well.

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Originally Posted by Hanni

It may actually be a good idea for me to cut Wake Thrasher for Cosi's Trickster. I'm heavy at the 3cc spot (11), and it may be better to cut some 3cc guys for some 1cc guys. Right now, my only turn 1 plays are Vial and Cursecatcher.

I'm going to try:

-3 Wake Thrasher
+3 Cosi's Trickster

...and I'll let you know how the playtesting turns out.

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Not sure if you'll agree with me, but I would also cut 1 Tidal Courier for the 4th Trickster. Trickster is something I want in opening hand (against the decks where I want it at all) and Courier is something I don't want until turn 4.

Cosi's Trickster has been awful. Smoothing out the curve... meh. Unless you put him into play on turn 1, he's usually just a 1/1. I've never gotten him past 3/3. While 1 mana for a 3/3 is solid, that's only happened once. This is in 2 hours of solid MWS testing.

I think I'm going to try cutting 3 Cosi's Trickster and 1 Mutavault for 4 Stonybrook Banneret and see how that works. That overloads me at the 2cc spot, which opens up vulnerabilities to EE and even Counterbalance, but it's just for playtesting purposes.

EDIT: I didn't even test with Stonybrook, lol. I went straight for Sejiri Merfolk, who just seems like a superior 2 drop. I added fectchlands, Tundra's, and cut the Mutavault's. Honestly, without Standstill anymore, and with a higher threat density, Mutavault seems less necessary. It's a great trump to Wrath of God, Firespout, EE, etc... but it's also vulnerable to Wastelands. It's obviously a great card, but I wanted to try out Sejiri. I did a 3/1 split of Sejiri and Sygg, and I just 2-1'd Zoo, and then 2-0'd him again (these were both postboard), with the U/W version. Jitte won me 2 of the 4 games, and Sejiri won me 1 of the games. In the other game that I won, he was manascrewed and my Wasteland's just made it worse for him.

I'm going to go back to my old posts, and edit/delete them. I'll leave my U/W list as the current.