Miracle Control

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Originally Posted by cartothemax

Is Containment Priest no good against D&T? Seems like another angle to attack Vial. I guess I haven't thought too much about what would come out for it though. Is that part of the problem of trying to bring it in?

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There are people here that will disagree with me, but I think that Containment Priest is bad in this matchup. Sure it's another body, and you can shut off AetherVial, but that's all he does. They can just choose to not put in a creature w. the vial, or they can just cast flickerwisp, exile containment priest, and then flash in whatever they want.

IMO Containment priest is not high-impact enough, given you are bringing in several cards that not only can deal with aether vial, but other cards in your deck as well. Bringing in cards to attack a 4-of that you have other and more permanent ways of dealing with just seems bad.

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Originally Posted by twndomn

If your they is goblin, that's not true.

1. seige-gang
2. assume they splash White for combo hate, they might have wear//tear
3. anarchy

Moat is just unrealistc.

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And you can counter two of those options while Swords'ing the other.

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

And you can counter two of those options while Swords'ing the other.

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Really? You keep-in counter against Goblins in the SB games? What're you trying to counter? Vial? Red Blasts? The possible anarchy, wear//tear that might not exist?

Say you keep your counters for the SB games AND you want to bring in additional removal, what do you SB-out? To get to the point, your SB plan appears incorrect and unrealistic.

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Originally Posted by twndomn

Really? You keep-in counter against Goblins in the SB games? What're you trying to counter? Vial? Red Blasts? The possible anarchy, wear//tear that might not exist?

Say you keep your counters for the SB games AND you want to bring in additional removal, what do you SB-out? To get to the point, your SB plan appears incorrect and unrealistic.

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My SB plan is tailored to my SB. The only additional removal I have is Pyroclasm, and I take out a Jace for it. I take out another Jace for a Pithing Needle, and then the final Jace for the Moat. I'd board out 1 or 2 Forces (or 1 FoW and 1 Spell Pierce) for Containment Priest (because Goblin Lackey shenanigans) and maybe a W//T. Maybe I'd take out CB depending on how I feel.

The point is, SB plans change depending on how you want to attack a MU.

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

My SB plan is tailored to my SB. The only additional removal I have is Pyroclasm, and I take out a Jace for it. I take out another Jace for a Pithing Needle, and then the final Jace for the Moat. I'd board out 1 or 2 Forces (or 1 FoW and 1 Spell Pierce) for Containment Priest (because Goblin Lackey shenanigans) and maybe a W//T. Maybe I'd take out CB depending on how I feel.

The point is, SB plans change depending on how you want to attack a MU.

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Goblins player here, the only cards I board in against miracles are 2 krosan grips, in case of moat/humility. Even when I was playing 3 REB (I cut them about 3 days ago) I would never bring them in against Miracles because bringing in 5+ non goblins would dilute the deck too much.

Obviously you can't always be picky, but if you can swords a ringleader, rather than terminusing it away, do that. The match is still abysmal for Miracles though, even when the Goblins player is pretty bad and it is virtually unplayable right now IMO so I wouldn't expect to play against it very often.

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Originally Posted by Stevestamopz

Goblins player here, the only cards I board in against miracles are 2 krosan grips, in case of moat/humility. Even when I was playing 3 REB (I cut them about 3 days ago) I would never bring them in against Miracles because bringing in 5+ non goblins would dilute the deck too much.

Obviously you can't always be picky, but if you can swords a ringleader, rather than terminusing it away, do that. The match is still abysmal for Miracles though, even when the Goblins player is pretty bad and it is virtually unplayable right now IMO so I wouldn't expect to play against it very often.

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:thumbsup: Thanks for informing me of a Rg variant of Goblins (though it doesn't seem too common). I need to get used to floating a 3 on top when playing green decks that don't play black.

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

:thumbsup: Thanks for informing me of a Rg variant of Goblins (though it doesn't seem too common). I need to get used to floating a 3 on top when playing green decks that don't play black.

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Weird, the R/G/x version is the most common (at least here on the source), cos it gives you access to tin-street hooligan and krosan grips.

People started playing White for access to Thalia, and I'd be 90% sure I'd be doing that on top of G, but I'm not a Goblins player.

what about Assemble the Legion in our SB? It also allows us to win consistently through creatures without fearing both Terminus and opponent's removal.

it is also out of Pyroblast and Abrupt Decay reach

Hello,

its not efficient enough. Entreat and Assamble a both instant casts but entreat generates 3 force more and flying per token. Also Assamble is only 1 Mana better than entreat
and therefore it is not that good because you lose 3 force and evasion per mana spent.

Hello,

Here is my latest list. I made 2 good results with the list (top16 and top4) in 64+ players tournament.
The maindeck is pretty classical but i adapted the sideboard for meddling mage to fight combo and more planeswalker to fight against controls. The karakas is due to the need to fight a lot of different things like clique in the mirror without keeping swords to plowshares and thalia mostly (and other well known target like emrakul, grisel and newly tasigur). The elspeth is amazing as far as i played it for now, i prefered it instead of a 3rd entreat.
I had a containment priest in place of 3rd meddling mage before but i decided to definitely cut the last hate grave

1. 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
   2 Dig Through Time
   2 Counterspell
   4 Force of Will
   4 Terminus
   4 Counterbalance
   1 Council's Judgment
   2 Entreat the Angels
   4 Swords to Plowshares
   2 Snapcaster Mage
   2 Plains
   2 Volcanic Island
   3 Tundra
   4 Island
   4 Flooded Strand
   2 Arid Mesa
   4 Polluted Delta
   4 Ponder
   4 Brainstorm
   4 Sensei's Divining Top
   sideboard
   1 Engineered Explosives
   2 Vendilion Clique
   1 Keranos, God of Storms
   1 Disenchant
   1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
   1 Flusterstorm
   3 Pyroblast
   1 Karakas
   3 Meddling Mage
   1 Elspeth, Knight-errant

Merfolk had been making a return overseas and online. My question is how do we sideboard and what is our game plan? I built it, chalice/cavern of souls, for my buddy to play and he has destroyed me game one every time. I play the ponders version and I'm currently cutting counterbalance, Force of will, and Jace. I'm siding in C. Priest, red blast, verdict, V. Clique, E. Explosives, and disenchant. Are we that unfavored game one? Thanks for input.

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Originally Posted by raistlinim

Merfolk had been making a return overseas and online. My question is how do we sideboard and what is our game plan? I built it, chalice/cavern of souls, for my buddy to play and he has destroyed me game one every time. I play the ponders version and I'm currently cutting counterbalance, Force of will, and Jace. I'm siding in C. Priest, red blast, verdict, V. Clique, E. Explosives, and disenchant. Are we that unflavored game one? Thanks for input.

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Yes, it is not a good MU G1. Your boarding strategy seems fine.

I made top4 at a 1.25K at Mythic Games today, with 31 people attending. I played a pretty generic ponder list and overall, I had a match record of 5-2 overall.

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
3 Tundra
2 Arid Mesa
2 Volcanic Island
2 Plains
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Ponder
4 Terminus
4 Brainstorm
2 Entreat the Angels
2 Counterspell
2 Dig Through Time
1 Council's Judgment
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

SIDEBOARD
1 Council's Judgment
2 Vendilion Clique
3 REB
2 Flusterstorm
2 Containment Priest
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disenchant
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Meddling Mage

R1: Grixis Delver 0-2
R2: Junk Nic Fit 2-0
R3: Omnitell 2-0
R4: MUD 2-1
R5: Elves 2-1
Quarters: Miracles 2-1
Semis: UR Delver 1-2

Overall, I think I played decently, but there were definitely some spots, like the semifinals, where I could have played much better than I did. I think I'll also stick with this deck for SCG Worcester.

I find Abrupt Decay and Show and Tell so common (and devastating for this deck) that I am thinking to maindeck them.

2 Monastery Mentor
2 Meddling Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage

Countertop to protect them and StP/PtE to get through the way..

it's no more miracle control though...

sb
2 Priest
4 Terminus

Miracles are poo, anyway. A bunch of Blue Spells and Serra Angel are where it's at.

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Originally Posted by goblinsplayer

I made top4 at a 1.25K at Mythic Games today, with 31 people attending. I played a pretty generic ponder list and overall, I had a match record of 5-2 overall.

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
3 Tundra
2 Arid Mesa
2 Volcanic Island
2 Plains
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Ponder
4 Terminus
4 Brainstorm
2 Entreat the Angels
2 Counterspell
2 Dig Through Time
1 Council's Judgment
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

SIDEBOARD
1 Council's Judgment
2 Vendilion Clique
3 REB
2 Flusterstorm
2 Containment Priest
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disenchant
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Meddling Mage

R1: Grixis Delver 0-2
R2: Junk Nic Fit 2-0
R3: Omnitell 2-0
R4: MUD 2-1
R5: Elves 2-1
Quarters: Miracles 2-1
Semis: UR Delver 1-2

Overall, I think I played decently, but there were definitely some spots, like the semifinals, where I could have played much better than I did. I think I'll also stick with this deck for SCG Worcester.

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Where's your Elspeth, Sun's Champion though? XD

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Originally Posted by pirol94

Where's your Elspeth, Sun's Champion though? XD

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She retired to my binder where I think she would stay for quite a while. :D

So Narset just made T8 of an SCG event. I was confused, but she's the only 'Walker that gives you 'Draw a card' on a +1 for less than 5 mana (apart from Tezzeret + Top) which seems pretty sweet. The main issue was how little there is to rebound. Sorcery speed Dig with Rebound seems reasonable, and Wrath of God is mostly fine, but double Brainstorm? Double Swords? Mostly seems medeocre.

EDIT: The thing she does have going for her, is that she ultimates really quickly, and her ultimate seems really relevant.

Hi all.

I went 4-3 at DLM (Danish Legacy Masters) yesterday, playing close to a generic ponder-list:

• 4 Flooded Strand
  4 Scalding Tarn
  2 Arid Mesa
  3 Tundra
  2 Volcanic Island
  4 Island
  2 Plains
  
  4 Sensei’s Divining Top
  4 Counterbalance
  
  4 Brainstorm
  3 Ponder
  
  3 Force of Will
  2 Counterspell
  1 Red Elemental Blast
  
  4 Swords to Plowshares
  4 Terminus
  2 Entreat the Angels
  1 Council’s Judgement
  
  3 Snapcaster Mage
  2 Dig Through Time
  2 Jace the Mind Sculptor
  
  Sideboard:
  3 Vendilion Clique
  3 Flusterstorm
  1 Force of Will
  1 Pithing Needle
  1 Relic of Progenitus
  1 Engineered Explosives
  2 Wear//Tear
  1 Council’s Judgement.
  2 Red Elemental Blast

I beat:
Rd 1: Omnitell 2-1 (Counterbalance good but not best (V Clique best)
Rd 2: BUG Delver 1-2 (Punted that game hard, he ultimate Liliana where I had Entreat on top, but for some reason, which I’m not sure about AT ALL, I thought I had swords on top for his Bob). That cost me the game, as he was on 11, and had 1 card in hard, giving me 2 turns to kill him.) I am not sure if people think I boarded wrong on this matchups, but I used it in both my matches, vs BUG (mostly, at least):
-3 Force of Will
-4 Counterbalance
-1 Entreat the Angels
+1 CJ
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Explosives
+1 Relic
+2 V Clique
+2 Wear//Tear (I expected some Null Rod, Pithing Needle, Sylvan Library from BUG)

Rd 3: BUG Delver 2-1 (Game 2 took forever!, he played a Winter Orb on Turn 5, where he got 4 of my lands. I had CJ for it, and top in play, so I just untapped and played lands. Eventually he played a beater, which I sent plowing, untapped, played CJ. He drew a Liliana, I drew a Jace and got there from that.)
Game 3 I won in round 4 in OT, where I ultimated Jace (0 cards in Hand) so he lost to empty Lib on T5. That was pretty close, but he was on 1 life, also, with a snapcaster in play.

Rd 4: Mirror 1-2. Won G1 after he had resolved Top, CB and Jace. I resolved a Jace and won from there. Lost g2 after he had REB for all three V clique + Jace, as well as counterspell for my CB.

Rd 5: Storm 2-1. Won G1 with CB + Top + Jace. Lost G2 to a play mistake.
Game three he went T1 Probe > Cabal Therapy (2 Counterbalance) > Surgical Extraction. Won with Clique beats, and flusterstorms.

Rd 6: Death and Taxes, 1-2. Won G1 with something after CB.
-4 Counterbalance
-2 Entreat
+1 Needle
+1 Explosives
+2 Wear//Tear
+1 Force
+1 CJ

He had 2x Cataclysm in both game 2 and 3….

Rd 7: Deathblade, 1-0-1.
Pretty uneventful match, but nice playing against that deck. I don’t think he was super familiar with the format, plus he played pretty slowly. We were out of contention anyhow, and I ended up at the low 20s standing.

Event was fun, and deck was basically like I wanted it. Never missed the 4th Ponder, as I expected a lot of (slower) combo (there was a literal ton of storm…), Delver and Mirrors, where the 2nd counterspell is really good. The 3 force is something I’ve been playing for a long time, due to playing both 2 counterspell and REB. It was pretty good, and I’m pretty sure 3 is the correct number.

@Quasim0ff

At a glance...
a) Don't board out Entreat vs BUG decks
b) Don't board out Entreat vs DnT

@Philipp

So I was rereading your articles and your deckbuilding philosophy, and doesn't your latest build (Ovino - mainboard REB) go against the idea of creating a list designed for a generic meta? How do you justify REB mainboard in a non-Treasure-Cruise field of things like BGx decks, DNT, etc...?

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Originally Posted by YamiJoey

So Narset just made T8 of an SCG event. I was confused, but she's the only 'Walker that gives you 'Draw a card' on a +1 for less than 5 mana (apart from Tezzeret + Top) which seems pretty sweet. The main issue was how little there is to rebound. Sorcery speed Dig with Rebound seems reasonable, and Wrath of God is mostly fine, but double Brainstorm? Double Swords? Mostly seems medeocre.

EDIT: The thing she does have going for her, is that she ultimates really quickly, and her ultimate seems really relevant.

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She seems totally reasonable to play in the mirror as she draws you cards, wins fairly quickly, and is doesn't die in one shot to Clique.

SEVEN WHOLE LOYALTY.

I do really like her. I'm wondering if I can actually play her, but the amount of games I won on just 3 Lands at my win a box was massive. (I'm talking five games out of the seven I won on three Lands, losing two games due to not having enough castable and relevant Spells, and one game to not being able to find an answer to True-Name with a Sofi.) I think she might only be viable in the lower/no Ponder decks. 23 Lands seems where you want to be for that kind of card. (I have cut down to just two Jaces for this reason.)

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Originally Posted by AnziD

@Philipp

So I was rereading your articles and your deckbuilding philosophy, and doesn't your latest build (Ovino - mainboard REB) go against the idea of creating a list designed for a generic meta? How do you justify REB mainboard in a non-Treasure-Cruise field of things like BGx decks, DNT, etc...?

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Thank you for your question, that's actually a very good one:

1) I make a distinction between a list I promote publically and play at GPs and a list that I build for a very specific event. Given that I don't play countless individual non-GP events this might not have been apparent, but just look at this list I piloted (quite a while ago), and I'd still pilot something very close to that in the given metagame. (though I lacked a serious bunch of experience back then, but you get the idea/ the direction of thought)
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11717&iddeck=85790
The metagame was 40% Delver 40% Combo. The deck that won the tournament preyed on this very inbred metagame, it was Stoneblade.

So, to get this back on point. When I build for a GP I build it for Legacy, not for this GP, because I don't think that there is such a thing as regional bias when it comes to 1000-4000 people tournaments.

Ovino on the other side is a different story. Over 50% of the participants, probably more, are native to Italy, which has had a strong showing of Miracles ever since. *fades away in memories of the good old times...* Oh yeah, I learned a lot from different italian players back in the day. So, umm, Ovino has had a very sharply describeable metagame which was Miracles+Omnitell, that's why I opted for the inclusion of Pyro. (additionally: It kind of included some kind of bargain with Maxime Gilles. :D)

2) I try to make this deck better by the time a new GP comes around the corner:

Top64 in Strasbourg: RIP Miracles > Top8 GP Paris: 2 Ponder Miracles > Top8 GP New Jersey: 4 Ponder Miracles >X GP Lille XXXX

So what's it going to be? The hell do I know, but I know what I don't want: Narrowing down the possibilities because of things that held true for the past. Things might have changed. I mean, maybe they haven't but it's incredibly important to always re-evaluate the point you are standing at. If I should come to the conclusion one day that 4 Ponder is nothing but a fluke I'd make sure I let everybody know should this be the case. (hint: It's not, it's actually hilariously OP)

So we are testing for GP Lille. I've also backspaced my egoistic aspect of building Miracles and am now working in a bigger team, both for constructing Miracles and testing all the MUs of Legacy. This has downsides, sure, a couple of them. But it also has a fair number of upsides, mostly the constant influx of new ideas of people who's minds I trust in one way or another. And I'm the last to tell them to simply fuck off with an idea without having tested it. (sometimes I do/did, but I always go back and test it to make sure)


So, umm I hope that answered your question. Shouldn't this be the case, should you disagree or want me to state something in a different matter, let me know, as always.

On the other hand, though, The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt will release in about 6 hours, so I'm not sure I can be any efficient with answering your question(s). :D

Greetings

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

2) I try to make this deck better by the time a new GP comes around the corner:

Top64 in Strasbourg: RIP Miracles > Top8 GP Paris: 2 Ponder Miracles > Top8 GP New Jersey: 4 Ponder Miracles >X GP Lille XXXX

Greetings

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X GP Lille XXXX = 8 Ponder Miracles...?

Haha, but thank you, my question is answered.

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Originally Posted by AnziD

@Quasim0ff

At a glance...
a) Don't board out Entreat vs BUG decks
b) Don't board out Entreat vs DnT

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I think I need some hate for stuff like winter orb/Sylvan, and there's no other card I would cut before the Entreat, I think.

vs D&T, resolving a spell with 2x Plains in CMC is just a struggle.

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Originally Posted by Quasim0ff

I think I need some hate for stuff like winter orb/Sylvan, and there's no other card I would cut before the Entreat, I think.

vs D&T, resolving a spell with 2x Plains in CMC is just a struggle.

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You definitely want your disenchant effect vs bug delver because of the cards you named and null rod. The hate cards can wreak havoc on us.

Hey guys. Sorry it's been rather slow coming down the pipeline, but my report for the SCG Cleveland Premier IQ is finally up:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/a-rewa...cy-premier-iq/

I should say this not a full fledged report so much as a memoir in learning miracles. I hope you all enjoy it. If you guys have any constructive comments, do leave them either in the article or here in my forum post in the tournament report thread.

Obligatory "This is why Mentor is better" post, wit regarfs to DnT.

I agree it's less explosive than Angels, and that Decay is a beating, but I think I like my new plan against BUG Delver.

@Dragonslayer: I just read your article, and it was excellent. The discussion of your CAPD was excellent. Thank you. :)

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Originally Posted by Quasim0ff

I think I need some hate for stuff like winter orb/Sylvan, and there's no other card I would cut before the Entreat, I think.

vs D&T, resolving a spell with 2x Plains in CMC is just a struggle.

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Looking at your list, here are the cards I would consider cutting:

4 Counterbalance
3 Force of Will
1 Red Elemental Blast

Looking at your board, here are the cards I'd be interested in:
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Wear//Tear
1 Council’s Judgment.

Ultimately I'd take out the 7 blue cards for all but the 2nd Wear//Tear. So how do we differ?

-1 Entreat the Angels
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Relic
+1 Wear//Tear

vs.

+2 Flusterstorm

Here's my justification for why my boarding process is different:

Overview: So before we talk about card choices, we need to understand why we're doing what we're doing. I would recommend reading Philipp's article if you haven't already, he explains very well what kind of game plan and mindset you should have going into this matchup. BUG Delver is definitely not as "synergistic" or as fast as its RUG counterpart (which combines its typical Stifle/Wasteland package with an extremely low curve, something BUG inherently will have a harder time with due to cards available in the color combination, ex: Bolt vs. Decay), but its strength comes in the fact that each of the cards are independently powerful. What's important to take away from this is an understanding of how we can take advantage of the tradeoff that occurs by switching from red to black. Because the BUG curve is higher and their cards kill a tiny bit more slowly, we are given a precious resource - time. With an extra turn here and there, we are able to more sufficiently develop our mana. What happens when we do this? We enable ourselves to play our strongest cards, most notably Jace and Entreat. As these cards are out of Abrupt Decay range, the BUG player will have a hard time removing it once it has resolved. So our route to victory in this matchup is typically to survive and overwhelm the opponent with superior threat quality. Therefore...

-1 Entreat the Angels - We definitely want to keep all copies of Entreat the Angels. In fact, if there were more space, we'd be bringing in an extra copy. Since our game plan is to resolve Entreat or Jace and beat them that way, it makes little sense to reduce the potential number of win conditions we have.

+1 Pithing Needle - This card is definitely great in that it can stop lots of things the BUG Delver player is trying to accomplish. In my testing, Pithing Needle is most applicable to stop Liliana of the Veil from just ripping us apart. Other targets include Wasteland and DRS (is there something big I'm missing?). And, while these are all great cards to shut down, we can do better. Pithing Needle is something of a floodgate card. It is not a permanent solution to the threats we care about. What happens when the Needle is destroyed? Then we resume getting attacked by the problematic cards. So we try to remove the problematic card before Needle dies - then what good is Needle after? Taking up an entire card to not fully solve the problem is a huge price to pay. A price we can't afford while we're dealing with Hymns, Libraries, and the like. I think it makes more sense to just have another permanent answer like Council's Judgment or EE, something equally as versatile as Needle, or a card that can help us resolve our bombs and win the game, like Flusterstorm. We can always fetch basics, we can always Ponder for removal. There are other ways to answer what Needle solves without its cost.

+1 Relic - The appeal to Relic is that it is a card that neuters the opponents threats (Goyf/DRS) while also drawing a card. Simply put, the card is... not necessary? I mean its cool that we can mitigate their creatures for a while, but it doesn't take too long for them to reestablish what Relic undoes. Their deck is not so blisteringly fast that we absolutely must focus on using cards like Relic to survive. Weighing the pros and cons, the card doesn't contribute enough to our game plan to merit postboard play.

+1 Wear//Tear - It's excessive. We have 1 W/T, 2 CJ, 1 EE, 3 SCM as potential answers to their enchantments and artifacts, as well as a ridiculous number of ways to find them (plug: play the 4th Ponder!). Typically the BUG Delver player will at max have 1 Null Rod, 1 Pithing Needle, and 1 Sylvan Library (correct me if I'm wrong here). For these cards, we have enough answers.

The point about why I'm advocating not boarding in all these extra cards is that there are better cards we can be playing. The pattern is consistent with all three cards, whether it be because the card is not necessary or not powerful enough. The extra space also opens us up to play...

+2 Flusterstorm - Remember that BUG Delver is primarily a tempo deck that heavily focuses on using countermagic to mess you up. Stifle, Force of Will, Spell Pierce, Envelop, their own Flusterstorms - there's a lot of cards they play to just say "No, you can't do that". It's great that you're boarding in a lot of answers, as that's what we want. But it's not necessarily the case that having just answers will always work. We want to strike from a different angle, which Flusterstorm allows us to do. It's both an offensive card that protects our Jaces and Entreats on the stack and a defensive card that fights against their discard and countermagic. This is the combination of versatility and power you want in each of your cards, which makes it much better than the other cards you're bringing in.

That's my 2 cents, this was mostly an exercise for me to practice verbalizing my thought process. Let me know what you agree and disagree on, and I'd be happy to discuss.

Also, vs DNT, I've realized that against good pilots, its definitely okay to be casting a lot of your miracles spells during your turn. Things like tapping Top in your upkeep to counter their Port activation and use your Terminus/Entreat. Sure, its a struggle, but Entreat is so powerful that its worth it to navigate our way around Port to resolve it.

And, another thing while I still remember - I think at one point exallium said not to include Judgment against DnT (correct me if I'm wrong!)? The idea here was that sorcery speed WW is hard to get. I recall saying that against Lands, I board out CJ because sorcery speed WW is hard, and I think he may have applied that DnT. However, this shouldn't apply to DnT. Firstly, they have lots of ridiculous spells we have to fight, like SoFaI and Vial. Secondly, the reason its easier to cast WW against DnT (and a reason we keep Judgment in against them) is because DnT doesn't have access to Thespian Stage. Navigating through a Port or two is doable. Navigating through three or four is way, way harder.

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Originally Posted by AnziD

X GP Lille XXXX = 8 Ponder Miracles...?

Haha, but thank you, my question is answered.

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I'm just saying, Preordain and Thought Scour are both reasonable. Preordain if you want the cantrip to be better on its own, scour if you want to fill your yard for Dig and synergize well with Top, Brainstorm, and Ponder. :)

okay, guys. so this is a pretty serious topic! For me at least.
you guys certainly know when you see an opponent doing sth and you wodner: why would you do this?
bad example: guy forgot to attack.
so today i totally CRUSHED an esper stoneblade opponent who top8 a 150 person open. after game 1 I asked him what he did play against R1. his answer: Miracles, and he didnt play as badly as you did.

I know miracles is one of the hardest decks to play correctly, but im not sure how worried i should be, meaning: did i seriously make a mind blowing mistake? Or was he just salty?
i have been playing miracles a lot, but do u guys still have these moments, when there is a line, which would have been 10x better?

He seemingly wanted to throw you off your game and make you question your decisions. Blow him off. Miracles is a bad matchup and he was probably trying to gain any kind of ground he could.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

thanks for the answer. he wouldnt want to specify what i did wrong. esper dude resolved 3 dig through time and still lost. So i guess being salty is totally reasonable. But im just a complete different type of player and i wouldnt ever use this kind of stuff to gain an advantage, thats why im asking.

If he said this while your game was still going he my have been trying to make you doubt yourself. A lot of people try this kind of stuff.

Honestly though, if you did not get 1st and you don't think you made any mistakes you are probably just not aware of them. Its often hard to see your own mistakes. Having better players watch you play can help a lot.

He was probably just salty. I haven't been playing the deck very long but it seems to be both incredibly demanding, and incredibly forgiving. It's really easy to make a mistake that seems obvious in retrospect, and still win the game/match despite it.

If we are talking skill level, I put myself at a very average skill level and find that I win frequently because the power level of the cards available to Miracles is simply so high. The deck is quite difficult to play, but Counterbalance/Top is not and gives many free wins in matchups where it is good. Similarly, the Miracle spells are so powerful that sometimes you'll win with Entreat when you would've lost.

That being said, any opponent who states how bad you are playing in the active match in a non-friendly/joking manner is just attempting to put you on tilt or is just salty (which, depending on how egregious, could actually be an Unsportsmanlike Conduct infraction - it has "A player taunts his opponent for making a bad play" as an example in the comp rules, even). Even if you are playing poorly the only reason to state it out loud would be to put you off your game for an advantage, really. If he brings it up after the game is over in a way that doesn't indicate he is just upset and has valid points about areas you could improve in then that is totally different - knowing the mistakes you make when you win is harder than obsessing over the details of games you lose. I feel a lot of people don't improve off of games they win nearly as much as they should.

I'm trying to finalize my decklist for SCG Worcester this weekend, and I'm having some serious trouble picking between the last few maindeck/sideboard slots. Who wants to help me with some second opinions?

Current maindeck: 4 Ponder, 3 Snapcaster, 2 DTT, basically the stock Ponder list
Current sideboard: 2 Clique, 3 REB/Pyroblast, 1 Wear // Tear, 1 FoW, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 EE, 1 Blood Moon, 2 Rest in Peace, 1 Keranos, 1 Council's Judgment

- I've noticed a lot of people starting to run 2 Containment Priest and 0 Rest in Peace, but these don't seem like they serve the same function. I get the application of Priest against Elves, S&S, and Death & Taxes, but RIP helps against Jund, BGx decks, ANT and Dredge. Not having any graveyard hate seems incredibly risky, is this just a local call for some people?

- Is Blood Moon just too win-more? It's such a beating against the decks that are weak to it that I haven't managed to convince myself it isn't needed

- I'm also considering cutting 1 Snapcaster, 1 DTT and 1 Arid Mesa for 1 Karakas and 2 Cliques. It's sacrificing a bit of the consistency those cards provide in exchange for the additional information (as a non-expert, knowing what my opponent has in hand helps me a lot). Both Joe Lossett and Philipp take the view that Cliques & Ponders belong in different builds of the deck, is anyone out there trying to run both? How have you found it?

Dredge has a harder time beating Priest than RiP, believe it or not. They can't get Creatures into play to trigger Bridge, and they bring in Naturalise effects, not Creture removal.

I have cut Blood Moon. It's good sometimes, but for a big event I'd be playing more consistantly good cards.

I am a huge fan of Vendilion Clique. The card is incredibly powerful. I have yet to find room for it in the main deck, but if you feel like you can make it work then go for it. If everyone is under the assumption you're not playing it G1 it can definitely be a game-winner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhyrexianLibrarian

- I've noticed a lot of people starting to run 2 Containment Priest and 0 Rest in Peace, but these don't seem like they serve the same function. I get the application of Priest against Elves, S&S, and Death & Taxes, but RIP helps against Jund, BGx decks, ANT and Dredge. Not having any graveyard hate seems incredibly risky, is this just a local call for some people?

- Is Blood Moon just too win-more? It's such a beating against the decks that are weak to it that I haven't managed to convince myself it isn't needed

- I'm also considering cutting 1 Snapcaster, 1 DTT and 1 Arid Mesa for 1 Karakas and 2 Cliques. It's sacrificing a bit of the consistency those cards provide in exchange for the additional information (as a non-expert, knowing what my opponent has in hand helps me a lot). Both Joe Lossett and Philipp take the view that Cliques & Ponders belong in different builds of the deck, is anyone out there trying to run both? How have you found it?

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Priest
Priest is no substitute for RiP. RiP is the best hoser against Lands. Not a wise move to allow Loam and PFire to run wild by leaning too much on CB.

Blood Moon
It's not Win More. The problem is that you most likely would need multiple moon to make a difference, not just 1. It's not against decks that are weak, it's to punish greedy mana base, help against impossible 12 Post, and push you over the top against otherwise tricky MU like infect, shardless, and MUD.

Clique
You can run both Clique and Snapcaster, that's what I am doing. This help tremendously against SFM package. The issue here is not whether they can co-exist in MD or not, it's where do you come up with card slots. Think this way, you could have easily taken Lossett's Legend version (which has 3 Clique 2 Snap), switch out some clunky cards for Ponder, modify the Mana base a bit. Just run the version that works for you.