[Deck] Goblins

Cedric Phillips is playing Goblins at the SCG Invitational. He's currently 7-0-1.

Here's his deck tech:

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...h_cedric_.html

I don't agree with completely cutting Piledriver. You lose the ability to tutor up a Fireball to your opponents face. I think at least 1 should be maindeck, always. I like it more than the singleton Tarfire. The rest of the list more or less looks like a typical Chieftain/Instigator list. Again, big fan of the 24 lands. Gotta respect being able to make your land drops. Cedric has always been a big Goblins fan so it's good to see him pick it up and crushing with it.

Any opinions on Cedric Phillips's list? http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...h_cedric_.html

TL;DR: Black splash, 24 lands (2 Ports). Cut Piledrivers and Warchiefs for Warren Instigators and Goblin Chieftains. No Mogg War Marshals.

Looks more like it was tailored to beat the Invitational metagame than a typical one--that is, designed to beat Maverick, Canadian and Tundra-based decks. I don't think I'll be dropping Warchief or Piledriver any time soon.

If you watch the Deck Tech segment at the top of the page, he remarks towards the end that he would never run this particular list in a more combo-heavy environment like Europe.

I do agree with his sentiment that Warchief's cost reduction is less relevant nowadays, and that the extra +1/+1 of Chieftain increases your clock exponentially (granted, he was talking about it in relation to Winstigator). I think I'll go to a 3-3 split of Warchief and Chieftain, personally.

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Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning

posted good stuff

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I agree with Barbed Blightning.
As Cedric said in the interview not a deck to try in Europe and he had a very good idea of what he was going to be playing against. I find Piledriver can be a great finisher so I personally would want more than one. I also run three Goblin Chieftain's since I want the extra Haste enablers and he is very good with any amount of token generation.

He makes very interesting points tho. Here is his chain of logic, as I see it.

1) 0 Warchief means that Goblin Piledriver and War Marshall are worse, and Instigator no longer has anti-synergy.

2) If we chose 4 Chieftain for haste instead, Warren Instigator becomes even better, and we no longer need Piledriver as much for DPS.

His list seems like a very even keel between cards that are individually strong, and shit that gets completely out of hand. Also, he's very right about Warren Wierding and Perish right now. I can't imagine a better card for his deck.

Lackey Go, Mother of Runes Go, Warren Wierding, Drop an Instigator Go seems insanely strong.

I question the 1 Tarfire, 1 Mogg Fanatic, and 0! Piledriver. Love the list otherwise tho...

I like his list, but.c'omon, playing 0 warcheifs is not inovative at all. May be in the scgo circuit though. Too bad he dindn't made top8...

On another note, the 1st guy on the swiss is playing goblins, so tomorrow might be a fun day for us.

Edit: the list is already up by the way.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

I like his list, but.c'omon, playing 0 warcheifs is not inovative at all..

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Well, its still a good list. But yes, people have been saying Chieftain > Warchief, and Piledriver isn't that good for a while. Maybe since its Cedric Phillips people will start listening.:rolleyes:

So does this mean that warchiefs are no longer part of the core and all we can agree on is vials, lackeys, matrons and ringleaders?

Also did we agree on a full playset of caverns? I found them more prone to wastelands and at times not allowing me to cast my playset of tarfires. However i enjoyed playing a lackey through my Chalice of the Void which I had sided in.
I guess if you want to run a full set of caverns, spells such as tarfire and warren weirding need to be more carefully considered. You also need to have more than 20 lands, which you can get away with if you just play mountains, wastelands and keep the mana curve down.

Also are we now suggestiing a black splash for perish again over a mono red build.

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Originally Posted by orcanmail

So does this mean that warchiefs are no longer part of the core and all we can agree on is vials, lackeys, matrons and ringleaders?

Also did we agree on a full playset of caverns? I found them more prone to wastelands and at times not allowing me to cast my playset of tarfires. However i enjoyed playing a lackey through my Chalice of the Void which I had sided in.
I guess if you want to run a full set of caverns, spells such as tarfire and warren weirding need to be more carefully considered. You also need to have more than 20 lands, which you can get away with if you just play mountains, wastelands and keep the mana curve down.

Also are we now suggestiing a black splash for perish again over a mono red build.

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- Not really sure, but it would probably be for the best to make sure that the core cards are indeed "core" (can be found in those exact numbers in every Goblins list).

- Only the complete playset will do, when Cavern of Souls is concerned. If you are worried about wasteland, don't play cavern until you need to resolve a "relevant" goblin.
If I have Lackey I will happily play it on turn one via cavern. In other cases, I'm willing to wait until I need to resolve a three-drop (usually a Matron) or a ringleader before playing caverns.

- Splash or no splash depends on your metagame. More often then not it's based on personal preference.

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Originally Posted by mrblueduck

Maybe since its Cedric Phillips people will start listening.:rolleyes:

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Except for the fact that another list placed higher than Cedric. A list that looks like what many people on this forum suggest (Except for the Kiki-Jiki):

Maindeck:

Artifacts
4 Aether Vial

Creatures
4 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
3 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

Legendary Creatures
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Krenko, Mob Boss

Basic Lands
11 Mountain

Lands
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Pyroblast
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Red Elemental Blast

Cedric Phillips had a 7-0-1 finish in the legacy half of the tournament and was ranked 1# :tongue:

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Originally Posted by Marshal

Cedric Phillips had a 7-0-1 finish in the legacy half of the tournament and was ranked 1# :tongue:

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His list is ranked eleventh on the Top Legacy Invitational Decklists feature on SCG. The other list, by Anthony Eason, is placed among the top eight.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...23&event_ID=21

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Originally Posted by Avatara

His list is ranked eleventh on the Top Legacy Invitational Decklists feature on SCG. The other list, by Anthony Eason, is placed among the top eight.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...23&event_ID=21

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Before everyone starts arguing there was a typing mistake.
When clicked on the link yesterday it said he was 1 (first) now it says 11 (eleventh).

They played standard, too. Pretty sure that list is of top 8 from both legacy + standard.

Also, pretty much every decklist posted after day 1 said it was ranked 1st for some reason. So not sure if any of these numbers are to rely on.

Does anyone mind if we go on with Goblin-related discussions?

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Originally Posted by Marshal

Cedric Phillips had a 7-0-1 finish in the legacy half of the tournament and was ranked 1# :tongue:

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Pretty sure he went 5-2-1 in Legacy.

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

Does anyone mind if we go on with Goblin-related discussions?

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Essentially, I think the takeaway is that both a traditional list and a Winstigator list can place highly. +/- a single win in a single tournament is not conclusive of anything.

Max Tietze made Top 8 of the Legacy Open with Goblins as well. We're still waiting to see how he does in Top 8.

His list is also a traditional list, slightly higher MWM count, max Piledrivers, and the classic 2 SGC instead of Krenko:

Artifacts
4 Aether Vial

Creatures
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Mogg War Marshal
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
1 Tin Street Hooligan

Basic Lands
4 Mountain

Lands
3 Arid Mesa
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Rishadan Port
1 Taiga
4 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Angel of Despair
2 Krosan Grip
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Red Elemental Blast

Things I learned from this weekend:

1) If you want Piledrivers, you want 2-3 MWM as well. Therefore, you also want Warchief. 1 Chieftan is optional.

2) If you want Winstigators, you want to run lots of Chieftans. Warchief is optional.

On a macro level, I'd say the primary decision point of the deck is shaping out to be the 2 drop slot. Both of these options are viable.

3) Mono-red, green-splash, and black-splash are all viable as well.

3) REB/Pyroblast and Pyrokenesis are both very good, broadly useful sideboard choices. It seems like you can't go wrong with 3+ of either of these cards.

4) You want 3-4 graveyard hate. Relic, Leyline, and Faerie are all clearly viable options.

5) Angel of Despair is a very interesting anti-Show and Tell card. Unlike Gilded Drake, you can never cast it with a splash. But if you weren't planning to cast it anyway, and just reveal it to their Show and Tell, Angel hits everything they could reveal; from Emrakul to Griselbrand to Omniscience.

Goblins wins again! I hope we maintain our niche status or we will get hated out again. The Angel of Despair is a nice SB tech. Go big or go home, I guess. I also appreciated Max giving credit to Jim Davis for the deck design.

Angel of Despair is hilarious tech against Show & Tell. Very hard to lose if they don't have Sneak Attack. Jim Davis is some kinda evil genius. Another win for Goblins with some very good, methodical play from Max Tietze.

In my opinion, if you want something against Omnicience/Show and Tell alone (like Angel) I'd prefer to splash white for Oblivion Ring. Does the Same (you should have the clock on your own) and it's an out against Moat/Humility - the only thing we loose to against UW, basicly.

If you're running Green for Krosan Grips and have space to put the Angel into your Sideboard... nevermind^^