4 Card Blind

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

I think it might be best to, from now on, agree on a way to handle illegal cards in decks, and stick to it. And the official solution, the more I think about it, doesn't look so bad. You still have a deck, albeit a 3CB deck, so you might still score some points. The extra land might even help in some cases, which isn't ideal of course, but at least everybody knows in advance that this is what will happen when a deck contains an illegal card. So I would like to suggest that we add this rule:
When a player sends an illegal deck, and it's not noticed by either the player or the tournament organizer before posting decks for the round, that the player gets to swap the illegal card(s) with (a) basic land(s) of his/her choice. This choice will then be addedd to the post with the decks and the Google spreadsheet by the tournament organizer, and everybody gets to redo the calculations with the new deck.

Everybody, please let me know if you agree with this solution.

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I agree. I think this is very fair.

Just remove the one illegal card and play a 3CB deck, or just ignore the nonfunctional card and have a 3CB deck. Keeping what does work out of the submission is better than trying to do substitutions or just disqualifying.

I'm glad we're trying to establish a consistent rule we can apply each time.

Having the Forces changed to Islands doesn't change my results but may leave them with more than 0 points, which I think is more fair.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by H

I'm fine with that. I'm also fine with people keeping cards that "don't work" like my Maze last round.

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Good point. I had that too and completely forgot about it, and was fine with playing with a dead land that doesn't even produce mana.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

I think it might be best to, from now on, agree on a way to handle illegal cards in decks, and stick to it. And the official solution, the more I think about it, doesn't look so bad. You still have a deck, albeit a 3CB deck, so you might still score some points. The extra land might even help in some cases, which isn't ideal of course, but at least everybody knows in advance that this is what will happen when a deck contains an illegal card. So I would like to suggest that we add this rule:
When a player sends an illegal deck, and it's not noticed by either the player or the tournament organizer before posting decks for the round, that the player gets to swap the illegal card(s) with (a) basic land(s) of his/her choice. This choice will then be addedd to the post with the decks and the Google spreadsheet by the tournament organizer, and everybody gets to redo the calculations with the new deck.

Everybody, please let me know if you agree with this solution.


PS. Typos don't count, of course. Otherwise one of our regulars would have stopped playing long ago. I won't say who. You know who you are. :cool:

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So if my napkin math is right, we are now at 7 in favour of the above idea, and none against or neutral.
Looks like I'll be adding this to our tournament rules shortly, and the FoW players can start thinking about which basic they would like to play, which is hilariously silly in this particular round. :laugh:

What about in situations where if you swap all the cards with basic lands the deck is still illegal (you drew the Canadians OTD for example).

I assume that would be a loss?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Someone wants to weigh in on this disagreement?

I have OTD:
R forest, exploration, valakut H land, ledx2 5 2/2s gain 5 shuffle everything in.
R mountain, asuza, mountain x3 H draw Emmy, land, attack for 10
R mountain x4, bolt 3 2/2s, kozilek. H can attack for 2 losing a zombie, draw led.
Attacking twice with kozilek and bolting face 8 times should kill before H can go off again.

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Huh, yeah, I didn't quite realize how fast your deck really was. But lets see. (I just realized that in all my other analyis, I keep forgetting to play additional Swamps, but I don't think it mattered in any of them.)

H T1: LED, LED, play a Swamp, crack both Diamonds and cast FUtF [X=5], [H=25], shuffle, Library would be Emrakul, LED, LED, FUtF.
R T1: Play Forest, Exporation, play Mountain.


H T2: Draw Emrakul, play a Swamp, attack with all 5 Zombies [R=10].
R T2: Play Mountain, play Azusa, play Valakut, play a Mountain, play a Mountain. No triggers yet as [M=4].


H T3: Draw LED, play a Swamp. Attack with all 5 Zombies. Azusa can block one [R=2].
R T3: Play Mountain, play a Mountain, one trigger, play Mountain, so two triggers total. So, you can kill two tokens, but that isn't enough to stop me from dealing lethal.

When I am on the Draw though:

R T1: Play Forest, Exporation, play Mountain.
H T1: LED, LED, play a Swamp, crack both Diamonds and cast FUtF [X=5], [H=25], shuffle, Library would be Emrakul, LED, LED, FUtF.

R T2: Play Mountain, play Azusa, play Valakut, play a Mountain, play a Mountain. No triggers yet as [M=4].
H T2: Draw Emrakul, play a Swamp, attack with all 5 Zombies, Azusa blocks one [R=12].

R T3: Play Mountain, play a Mountain, one trigger, play Mountain, two triggers total killing two Zombies.
H T3: Draw LED, play a Swamp. Attack with 3 Zombies, one gets blocked [R=8]

R T4: Three Mountains, three Triggers remove all the Zombies, so yeah, I definitely lose here.

Looks like it should be 3-3?

I agree with the result but all the analysis seems wrong since the land drop numbers don’t make sense (4 lands per turn if asuza is alive, or 2 if she is not, on t3 & t4 instead of the mentioned 3)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by H

Huh, yeah, I didn't quite realize how fast your deck really was. But lets see. (I just realized that in all my other analyis, I keep forgetting to play additional Swamps, but I don't think it mattered in any of them.)

H T1: LED, LED, play a Swamp, crack both Diamonds and cast FUtF [X=5], [H=25], shuffle, Library would be Emrakul, LED, LED, FUtF.
R T1: Play Forest, Exporation, play Mountain.


H T2: Draw Emrakul, play a Swamp, attack with all 5 Zombies [R=10].
R T2: Play Mountain, play Azusa, play Valakut, play a Mountain, play a Mountain. No triggers yet as [M=4].


H T3: Draw LED, play a Swamp. Attack with all 5 Zombies. Azusa can block one [R=2].
R T3: Play Mountain, play a Mountain, one trigger, play Mountain, so two triggers total. So, you can kill two tokens, but that isn't enough to stop me from dealing lethal.

When I am on the Draw though:

R T1: Play Forest, Exporation, play Mountain.
H T1: LED, LED, play a Swamp, crack both Diamonds and cast FUtF [X=5], [H=25], shuffle, Library would be Emrakul, LED, LED, FUtF.

R T2: Play Mountain, play Azusa, play Valakut, play a Mountain, play a Mountain. No triggers yet as [M=4].
H T2: Draw Emrakul, play a Swamp, attack with all 5 Zombies, Azusa blocks one [R=12].

R T3: Play Mountain, play a Mountain, one trigger, play Mountain, two triggers total killing two Zombies.
H T3: Draw LED, play a Swamp. Attack with 3 Zombies, one gets blocked [R=8]

R T4: Three Mountains, three Triggers remove all the Zombies, so yeah, I definitely lose here.

Looks like it should be 3-3?

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Azusa, Lost But Seeking is a 1/2. If she blocks a zombie token, she will die and then R loses 2 land drops per turn.
It changes the math a bit but not the outcome.

Still 3-3

https://www.magic-ville.com/pics/big/thbFR/169.jpg

Reeplcheep for the next ones you could play this one if you want It changes almost nothing but you would have won this one ;)

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Originally Posted by Serguei

https://www.magic-ville.com/pics/big/thbFR/169.jpg

Reeplcheep for the next ones you could play this one if you want It changes almost nothing but you would have won this one ;)

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I thought playing kozilek on t3 rather than t4 was more important than the body and better valakut.

Assuming the swap from Force of Will to Island, there are still a few discrepancies to resolve.

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Originally Posted by silkster

Me: silkster: Shocker, Path to Exile, Chancellor of the Tangle, Leyline of the Void

5. dte: dark ritual, tel-jilad stylus, mesmeric fiend, reality acid
Peasant all-stars! The Stylus mocks my attempt at anti-recursion. On my play, my turn 2 attack is met with block+tuck, and then I Path the Fiend when you replay it. You eat the Chancellor forever, and my Shocker catches the acid. WL, 3 points

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

5. dte: dark ritual, tel-jilad stylus, mesmeric fiend, reality acid

11. silkster: Shocker, Path to Exile, Chancellor of the Tangle, Leyline of the Void
4-1. OTP I take Shocker T1, then cast fiend and let the trigger resolve to take the path on T2. OTD you play shoker, I exile PtE definitely (or you don't play anything to keep PtE open, I exile shoker and you exile fiend, and we draw as I destroy your lands). I will exile Chancellor later on, and we can either trade our creatures or I block and put it under the library forever. I am surprised you're the only one on LLotV. Good combination on the shoker + LlotV against the eldrazi too.

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Silk has 3-3, dte has 4-1. Can silk win OTP?

Edit: I agree with dte
If silk plays T1 Shocker, T1 Fiend takes PtE
Shocker attacks. 1/1 Fiend trades with 1/1 Shocker, returning PtE
Reality Acid combo prevents Changle from ever being cast and they draw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serguei

13. Serguei: Force of Negation, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Swords to Plowshares, Misthollow Griffin

5. dte: dark ritual, tel-jilad stylus, mesmeric fiend, reality acid
Ww 6pts ->18pts

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

I think I also got this MU wrong:

OTD I lose, no questions asked. But OTP I think I have a draw:

T1, dark ritual
--> if FoN, I play T2 stylus, and acid reality stone rain Serguei every turn.
--> if no FoN, I play fiend, exile FoN, then stylus, and put fiend in the bottom of my library (in my turn), FoN goes back to Serguei's hand. T2 I replay fiend, answer its ETB ability with stylus. Serguei better StP or I win. So he StP my fiend, and I exile FoN permanently. T3 and after, acid reality stone rain Serguei every turn.

1-4?

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dte and Serguei first agreed, but dte might have a draw OTP?

Edit: I agree with dte
OTP playing Fiend before Stylus removes Force. Then Stylus resolves and tucks the Fiend
Sergeui plays a Plains and holds up StP
dte draws Fiend again and plays it again. In response to triggers, Stylus activates to tuck Fiend, and Sergeui responds with StP. Fiend is exiled for good, but Fiend still exiles a card from hand for good: FoN
With FoN permanently gone, Reality Acid combo destroys the lands so no threats can resolve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Assuming the swap from Force of Will to Island, there are still a few discrepancies to resolve.


dte and Serguei first agreed, but dte might have a draw OTP?

Edit: I agree with dte
OTP playing Fiend before Stylus removes Force. Then Stylus resolves and tucks the Fiend
Sergeui plays a Plains and holds up StP
dte draws Fiend again and plays it again. In response to triggers, Stylus activates to tuck Fiend, and Sergeui responds with StP. Fiend is exiled for good, but Fiend still exiles a card from hand for good: FoN
With FoN permanently gone, Reality Acid combo destroys the lands so no threats can resolve.

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I agree with that by rethinking that match. So 4 points instead of 6

Nevertheless, if we switch Fow to island it think it changes also the result against alphastryk as he has not anymore Fow to protect his dack against my griffin
But it is very hard to determine my hand and what is the worse card I can draw. Because the Worst card I drawn during a turn might be the Best the turn after

I did not check my results against island instead of FoW. i'll do it tomorrow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serguei

I agree with that by rethinking that match. So 4 points instead of 6

Nevertheless, if we switch Fow to island it think it changes also the result against alphastryk as he has not anymore Fow to protect his dack against my griffin
But it is very hard to determine my hand and what is the worse card I can draw. Because the Worst card I drawn during a turn might be the Best the turn after

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Beacon of Destruction is a problem for you, and I don't think you ever get to Ulamog mana before Beacon kills you.

EDIT: You can try to save Force of Negation for Beacon (hardcasting it, of course), and Dack Fayden never makes you discard it (you discard Swords/Ulamog or Misthollow/Ulamog), but you still never get to Ulamog mana unless you Force Land Equilibrium, and then Beacon kills you after that, so you don't. You also can never actually cast Misthollow Griffin for a similar reason. Looks like draws all around.

Again with islands:

9. alphastryk: Island, Dack Fayden, Beacon of Destruction, Land Equilibrium
Without being able to force my enablers you can't really do anything. Kozilek doesn't care about dack. 6-0

10. maxx!: Mistcutter Hydra, Misthollow Griffin, Food Chain, Islandl
I have a t3 kozilek and t4 kill with just valakut. OTD I can humorously chump hydra with kozilek and the valakut you to death, OTP its worse for you.
6-0.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

Beacon of Destruction is a problem for you, and I don't think you ever get to Ulamog mana before Beacon kills you.

EDIT: You can try to save Force of Negation for Beacon (hardcasting it, of course), and Dack Fayden never makes you discard it (you discard Swords/Ulamog or Misthollow/Ulamog), but you still never get to Ulamog mana unless you Force Land Equilibrium, and then Beacon kills you after that, so you don't. You also can never actually cast Misthollow Griffin for a similar reason. Looks like draws all around.

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I was thinking just cast griffin and kill dack with it. And later be able to Fon q beacon. Because I can always play FoN even with equilibrium in play.

When he would try to kill griffin before i finish dack I cannot have neither FoN nor STP in hand to protect griffin

Many here, me including, still need to redo our calculations for the matches that have changed because of the new rule for illegal cards. Please also check your scores in the Google spreadsheet. That helps me a lot. I'll post standings when all results are in, but before that, we can already open submissions for round 5.


ROUND 5 OF SEASON 9: DEVIANT LEGACY - PART 2 has started.

This round we play The Coin: When you are on the draw, you begin the game with a Lotus Petal artifact token in play. No additional bannings.

I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 5, so you can start sending me your decks.

DEADLINE: Wednesday the 17th of February at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Swamp, Swamp, Dauthi Slayer, Black Knight.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S09R05 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, on in our Google Spreadsheet.

After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

Also, if you've been lurking on this thread and looking to join, you can step in anytime, any round. That's no problem at all. Just send me your deck before the deadline, and I'll add you to the competition. :smile:

Happy deck designing everybody! :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serguei

I was thinking just cast griffin and kill dack with it. And later be able to Fon q beacon. Because I can always play FoN even with equilibrium in play.

When he would try to kill griffin before i finish dack I cannot have neither FoN nor STP in hand to protect griffin

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If he leads with Land Equilibrium @ 4 lands, and then you cast Griffin, then he can play a fifth land and sorcery-speed Beacon on his turn to avoid both FoN and Swords because you are tapped out. alphastyrk can then cast Dack the next turn, and if you FoN Dack then Beacon kills you, but if you don't eventually you are forced to discard FoN and Beacon kills you anyways, so you never actually cast Griffin in the first place. This also means that alphastryk can never safely play the fifth land until you cast Misthollow Griffin, so you just stare.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

If he leads with Land Equilibrium @ 4 lands, and then you cast Griffin, then he can play a fifth land and sorcery-speed Beacon on his turn to avoid both FoN and Swords because you are tapped out. alphastyrk can then cast Dack the next turn, and if you FoN Dack then Beacon kills you, but if you don't eventually you are forced to discard FoN and Beacon kills you anyways, so you never actually cast Griffin in the first place. This also means that alphastryk can never safely play the fifth land until you cast Misthollow Griffin, so you just stare.

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When I am OTD yes I agree
Neverthzless when I am OTP I will play griffin before Equilibrium and I will untap before he gets 5 mana to kill the griffi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serguei

When I am OTD yes I agree
Neverthzless when I am OTP I will play griffin before Equilibrium and I will untap before he gets 5 mana to kill the griffi

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I think you have the same issues with Dack on the play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Again with islands:
10. maxx!: Mistcutter Hydra, Misthollow Griffin, Food Chain, Islandl
I have a t3 kozilek and t4 kill with just valakut. OTD I can humorously chump hydra with kozilek and the valakut you to death, OTP its worse for you.
6-0.

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That's hilarious. He has T4 haste 200/200 OTP, faster than your clock, but yes Kozilek makes an excellent recurring chump blocker every turn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serguei

I was thinking just cast griffin and kill dack with it. And later be able to Fon q beacon. Because I can always play FoN even with equilibrium in play.

When he would try to kill griffin before i finish dack I cannot have neither FoN nor STP in hand to protect griffin

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Let's look at this in detail.

Serguei vs alphastryk OTP:
T1 S: Plains
T1 A: Island

T2 S: Island
T2 A: Island

T3 S: Island
T3 A: Mountain. Dack Fayden +1: Discard Ulamog and StP. Library = StP, Ulamog [Dack=4]

T4 S: Draw StP. Island. Misthollow Griffin
T4 A: Mountain. Land Equilibrium. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & StP. Library = StP, Ulamog. [Dack=5]

T5 S: Draw StP. Can't play more lands. Hold up WUUU. Attack Dack with Griffin. [Dack=2]
T5 A: Island. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & StP. Library = StP, Ulamog. [Dack=3]

T6 S: Draw StP. Attack Dack with Griffin.

If A Beacons Griffin -> S hardcasts FoN, exiling Beacon forever. Dack dies. Griffin kills A
If A doesn't -> Dack dies. S keeps holding up FoN mana for Beacon. Griffin kills A

Sergeui wins!
The key here is that OTP Serguei gets to untap with Griffin and hold up 1UU before Beacon is live. Dack can never take FoN out of hand
OTD is harder. Griffin is a turn slower and vulnerable to Beacon right away while tapped out.

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Serguei vs alphastryk OTD:
T1 A: Island
T1 S: Plains

T2 A: Island
T2 S: Island

T3 A: Mountain. Dack Fayden +1: Discard Ulamog and StP. Library = StP, Ulamog [Dack=4]
T3 S: Draw StP. Island

T4 A: Mountain. Land Equilibrium. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & StP. Library = StP, Ulamog. [Dack=5]
T4 S: Draw StP. Island. Do not play Griffin

The problem here is if S taps out for Griffin, A hits 5 mana and Beacons it. S is tapped out and cannot respond with FoN or StP, so Griffin dies. Then A simply does not activate Dack again so the Griffin would never reshuffle and S has no win condition. S can do no better than draw that way. S can try to play around this by waiting to play Griffin with StP mana up if A ramps to 5 for Beacon (otherwise A has no threat either).

If A tries to play for the win with a 5th land drop...

T5 A: Mountain. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & StP. Library = Ulamog, StP. [Dack=6] (Now StP is better because it protects Griffin)
T5 S: Draw Ulamog. Plains. Pass.
(A cannot Beacon @ S on either turn because FoN is up with 1UU)

T6 A: Dack +1: Draw StP, discard Ulamog & FoN. Library = Ulamog, FoN. [Dack=7]
(If Dack is not used, S will draw StP next turn either way, but this lets 1 Beacon get in without FoN)
T6 S: Draw Ulamog. Griffin. Pass with Plains & StP open. EOT Beacon @ S. [S=15]
(If Beacon on Griffin, StP sends Griffin to exile and counters Beacon, stopping reshuffle)

T7 A: Draw Beacon. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & FoN. Library = Ulamog, FoN. [Dack=8] (keep StP to protect Griffin while tapped out)
T7 S: Untap all lands. Draw Ulamog. Attack Dack with Griffin. EOT Beacon @ S. [S=10, Dack=5]
(If Beacon on Griffin, StP stops it again)

T8 A: Draw Beacon.

Now A has no winning lines.
1) Activate Dack: S would just get FoN in hand with mana open, and Beacon is now dead. Bad line. S wins.
2) Beacon @ Griffin: S StPs Griffin. Griffin goes to exile, Beacon is countered and does not reshuffle. S replays Griffin and wins.
3) Beacon @ S: S goes to 5 life, then untaps and draws FoN and Dack can't remove it. Beacon never resolves again. S wins.
4) Do nothing: S draws FoN. Now FoN nullifies the Beacon. Worse than other lines.

All of these lead to S winning.


If A does not play the 5th land, attempting to draw
T5 A: Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & FoN. Library = Ulamog, FoN. [Dack=6]
T5 S: Draw Ulamog. Griffin. Untapped Plains, sacrificing a tapped land, holding up StP

Because Land Equilibrium lets him sacrifice a tapped land to play an untapped Plains, he can still hold up StP to protect Griffin even restricted to 4 lands. Then the same thing happens. StP protects Griffin from Beacon long enough until S reaches a state with untapped lands and FoN in hand.

S wins both?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

That's hilarious. He has T4 haste 200/200 OTP, faster than your clock, but yes Kozilek makes an excellent recurring chump blocker every turn.




Let's look at this in detail.

Serguei vs alphastryk OTP:
T1 S: Plains
T1 A: Island

T2 S: Island
T2 A: Island

T3 S: Island
T3 A: Mountain. Dack Fayden +1: Discard Ulamog and StP. Library = StP, Ulamog [Dack=4]

T4 S: Draw StP. Island. Misthollow Griffin
T4 A: Mountain. Land Equilibrium. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & StP. Library = StP, Ulamog. [Dack=5]

T5 S: Draw StP. Can't play more lands. Hold up WUUU. Attack Dack with Griffin. [Dack=2]
T5 A: Island. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & StP. Library = StP, Ulamog. [Dack=3]

T6 S: Draw StP. Attack Dack with Griffin.

If A Beacons Griffin -> S hardcasts FoN, exiling Beacon forever. Dack dies. Griffin kills A
If A doesn't -> Dack dies. S keeps holding up FoN mana for Beacon. Griffin kills A

Sergeui wins!
The key here is that OTP Serguei gets to untap with Griffin and hold up 1UU before Beacon is live. Dack can never take FoN out of hand
OTD is harder. Griffin is a turn slower and vulnerable to Beacon right away while tapped out.

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Serguei vs alphastryk OTD:
T1 A: Island
T1 S: Plains

T2 A: Island
T2 S: Island

T3 A: Mountain. Dack Fayden +1: Discard Ulamog and StP. Library = StP, Ulamog [Dack=4]
T3 S: Draw StP. Island

T4 A: Mountain. Land Equilibrium. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & StP. Library = StP, Ulamog. [Dack=5]
T4 S: Draw StP. Island. Do not play Griffin

The problem here is if S taps out for Griffin, A hits 5 mana and Beacons it. S is tapped out and cannot respond with FoN or StP, so Griffin dies. Then A simply does not activate Dack again so the Griffin would never reshuffle and S has no win condition. S can do no better than draw that way. S can try to play around this by waiting to play Griffin with StP mana up if A ramps to 5 for Beacon (otherwise A has no threat either).

If A tries to play for the win with a 5th land drop...

T5 A: Mountain. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & StP. Library = Ulamog, StP. [Dack=6] (Now StP is better because it protects Griffin)
T5 S: Draw Ulamog. Plains. Pass.
(A cannot Beacon @ S on either turn because FoN is up with 1UU)

T6 A: Dack +1: Draw StP, discard Ulamog & FoN. Library = Ulamog, FoN. [Dack=7]
(If Dack is not used, S will draw StP next turn either way, but this lets 1 Beacon get in without FoN)
T6 S: Draw Ulamog. Griffin. Pass with Plains & StP open. EOT Beacon @ S. [S=15]
(If Beacon on Griffin, StP sends Griffin to exile and counters Beacon, stopping reshuffle)

T7 A: Draw Beacon. Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & FoN. Library = Ulamog, FoN. [Dack=8] (keep StP to protect Griffin while tapped out)
T7 S: Untap all lands. Draw Ulamog. Attack Dack with Griffin. EOT Beacon @ S. [S=10, Dack=5]
(If Beacon on Griffin, StP stops it again)

T8 A: Draw Beacon.

Now A has no winning lines.
1) Activate Dack: S would just get FoN in hand with mana open, and Beacon is now dead. Bad line. S wins.
2) Beacon @ Griffin: S StPs Griffin. Griffin goes to exile, Beacon is countered and does not reshuffle. S replays Griffin and wins.
3) Beacon @ S: S goes to 5 life, then untaps and draws FoN and Dack can't remove it. Beacon never resolves again. S wins.
4) Do nothing: S draws FoN. Now FoN nullifies the Beacon. Worse than other lines.

All of these lead to S winning.


If A does not play the 5th land, attempting to draw
T5 A: Dack +1: Draw Ulamog, discard Ulamog & FoN. Library = Ulamog, FoN. [Dack=6]
T5 S: Draw Ulamog. Griffin. Untapped Plains, sacrificing a tapped land, holding up StP

Because Land Equilibrium lets him sacrifice a tapped land to play an untapped Plains, he can still hold up StP to protect Griffin even restricted to 4 lands. Then the same thing happens. StP protects Griffin from Beacon long enough until S reaches a state with untapped lands and FoN in hand.

S wins both?

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Thanks a lot for the full analysis.
I was struggling to resolve the stack because ( I do not know why) that Dack effect was discard then draw :)

@alphastryke Does it seem good to you ?