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I'm going to be running the Legends build at Worcester, solely because there are going to be a lot of Miracles players there and I think that build has a better mirror matchup. Also, I expect quite a bit of omni-tell as well with all of the success it has had of late.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhyrexianLibrarian
Yeah, I'm expecting to see a lot of Miracles, Omni-Tell, and Delver matchups over this particular weekend. Probably going to be running a board like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by skyout
3 REB/Pyroblast
1 Disenchant
1 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Containment Priest
2 Rest in Peace
2 Meddling Mage
1 Keranos, God of Storms
I like the idea of the board being either better/more specific versions of what the deck already does (i.e. all the counters), or high-impact cards that immediately force my opponent into an awkward position and give me time to set up my win. Keranos is the only odd card out, but I'm not sure what I'd put in there. Blood Moon is awkward with only 2 Volcanics as red sources (and only being able to fit one), and Venser, Shaper Savant seems way too cute.
Oh, here's a tip I learned. If you're casting Engineered Explosives into Thalia, be VERY careful about what mana you use to pay for it. If you want 1 counter, you have to either declare X as zero, or use the same colour mana for the Thalia tax as for the sunburst.
Depending on how many Council's Judgment you play, that might fit well in the slot currently occupied by Keranos.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhyrexianLibrarian
2 Priests and 2 RIPs is definitely overkill. Remember you have 4 ponders to find your pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhyrexianLibrarian
As a BGx player, feel free to cut RIP so I can chew off your face. K thx.
But seriously, meta dependent. Any time you can RIP (someone a new asshole), why not run it? This deck has problems against disruption backed with Fires/guys, so why not salt the earth with RIP? Dare I say you have very positive matchups across the board, but BGx built properly can give you fits.
I would cut that meddling mages for 2 canonists... incredibly more relevant vs omni and storm decks... they cast S&T you slam down canonist they can play spells no more and in eot you proceed to reb/wear/disenchant their omniscience... they simply cannot win a counter war with that on the table...vs. Storm it's simply superior and vs dredge with canonist in play and Fow floating on top you are safe from dread return... Why playing meddlung mage over it?
i would play wear/tear over disenchant too... more relevant in the mirror and if you does not expect mud, D&T or similar the red cc isn't such an issue
I would say i have to agree, even though i dont have much experience with Pikula. What are the matchups you want Meddling Mage in? Storm and Show'n Tell decks?
I like it a lot vs. Show and Tell decks, and also like it a lot vs. Lands. You can play it and turn off LFTL, making it a redundant copy of RIP. It shuts down haymakers in storm (win conditions) or you can play it and name abrupt decay to help protect a counterbalance vs. Storm.Quote:
Originally Posted by decan
VS. Sneak and Show I'm naming Sneak Attack, because of the number of REBs and other countermagic I have for show and tell.
VS. Omnitell I'm naming either cunning wish or Show and Tell. Boseiju be damned!
VS. Storm I'm naming a win condition if I don't have CB on the table, Abrupt Decay if I do. (If they decay in response to you casting MM, obv name something else)
VS. Lands I'm interested in naming LFTL or Punishing Fire if I don't have a RIP on the board. If I do, then it becomes situational. KGrip gets rid of RIP but does nothing to MM
MM is a hard card to know exactly what to name and when sometimes, for some of the same reasons as something like Cabal Therapy.
I don't run MM personally but can totally see the appeal and application. It's a great card in a combo heavy meta.
QuoteQuote:
Originally Posted by exallium
I think Mage is also good in a wide open meta. It's generally good against a lot of things, and sometimes you just need to pull cards like Force out of your deck and don't have anything to put in. Mage can just come down, name a card like Decay, and affect the game in a very positive way for you.
Can anyone tell me the advantage of running disenchant over wear // tear? I see people running either or in various lists but I'm curious why.
Against Vial decks, you almost always don't want to fetch for Volcanic Island to cast wear//tear to destroy the Vial. The same reasoning goes for SFM decks that runs Wasteland. Single use Volcanic and then get Wasted later just isn't attractive. Even if you run Mountain, sometimes the risk is just too high. Against RUG Delver, you just don't want to break fetchland unless you have to (or you can safely do so), due to Stifle. Hence Disenchant provides the ease of use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misersoneof
As to the upside of running Wear//Tear, if you can get to float it on the top of your library with CB in play, the result is amazing lock. However, you most likely have won at that point.
Thanks! That clears up my confusion. I knew about the counter top lock that wear // tear created but I wasn't sure what the advantage of disenchant was.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
Does anybody have experience boarding ethersworn canonist in against infect? Assuming it is already in the board, would you bring it in over something like Vendilion Clique or a Counterspell?
No big experience on this but i guess that could be dangerous because he can simply attack us with inkmoth nexus and if we try to remove it and he counters, we cannot counter backQuote:
Originally Posted by oarsman
Why would that be a problem? If I were merely taking 1 poison I'd let it through. If he pumps then you remove it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
I guess if they have Seal of Primordium or Pendelhaven then you'd be on a faster clock but you'd know about it before attempting to remove it.
They play pendelhaven and noble hierarch. With 1 of those out, it's a 5 turn clock. With both, its a 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misersoneof
Good call. I guess Canonist also downgrades Snapcaster to a mere Ambush Viper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
that's what i was trying to say, the fact is that they can simply attack and not pump, and lock you in your canonist, for ex:opponent attack with two guys, you plow one, they pump the latter and kill you protected from your own canonist ( i know plowing infect guys before opponent's end combat step is usually a misplay, but not always everything goes as we like).Quote:
Originally Posted by Misersoneof
Of the 3 win-cons from Infect (Inkmoth nexus, Blighted Agent, and Glistering elf), Clique can block 2 of them. That's just too big of the upside. If anything, I suppose you can replace a counterspell with a canonist.Quote:
Originally Posted by oarsman
Starting from the 4 ponder stock list, i'd like to edit it a little bit to tune it for my expected metagame:
the place where i play is going to be filled with grixis pyromance decks both aggro and midrangey versions ( see links posted down for reference)
Aggro version : http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/289765#online
Control version: http://www.quietspeculation.com/2015...rol-in-legacy/
the field is rich with combo decks too ( Ant and Omnitell), and the rest was basically Jeskai blade, some BG x ( Team America and Jund) and random stuff...
initially i thought that finding room for some rebs maindeck and Staticaster/ Pyroclasm sb would be a good way to start,i'm trying out something like this and i'm having an hard time figuring out what to cut for 1/2x Rebs maindeck
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Dig Through Time
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
1 Council's Judgment
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1/2 Rest in Peace/ Relic of progenitus
SB: 1 Monastery Mentor
SB: 1 Pyroclasm/Izzet staticaster
SB: 0/1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
i'm trying out something like this and i'm having an hard time figuring out what to cut for 1/2x Rebs maindeck.
How would you tune the deck?, does anybody have experience in playing these pyromancer decks?, any suggestions on the gameplan, boarding etc? Given the meta what would you cut for 1x or 2x Rebs main? does it seems like it's worth it given the meta? Do you think is better to have Staticaster or Pyroclasm in SB?
Any thoughts on Moat on sideboard when metagame has alot of creature decks?
Im starting with this deck and wondering what I should have in my SB.
Depends on which creature decks, but most creatures in Legacy are x/2 or weaker, so 1 or 2 Pyroclasms seems strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by l33twash0r
Supreme Verdict is a given (if you're not already running it main).
I have just win a BUG matchup judt for Pyroclasm and Entreat! I find Abrupt Decay so unstoppable that I want always to side out Counterbalance.. I would try some Redirect for
Ancestral Vision
Hymn
Thoughtseize
Abrupt Decay
it can be devastating. Also double Karakas (1side) in all mid-games matchup is so strong..
I'm aggree with you, pyroclasm is a better choice right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
I know that it requires RR, but would you every consider Volcanic Fallout if UR is heavy in your meta? I don't think I would, but I'm just curious.
This is highly dependant on your manabase and how many copies of Wasteland you expect to see. I, as many others, don't run a basic mountain at all, and thus Volcanic Fallout isn't on my radar at all. It's way too greedy a cost for a deck that doesn't want to be fetching Red vs UR to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPoJohnson
UR plays Delver, Young Pyro and Swiftspear.. Pyroclasm and is like THE card in that matchup..
Izzet Staticaster is also great because it dodges Pierces..
Hello, just wanted to know your opinion on DTT.
We can all agree that the effect is awesome still I belive that is the worst card in the deck. I mean if I were to change a card, probably would be DTT.
Behind I leave my current build (pretty standard), what are your thoughts on swapping both DDT for 2 REB? (also could probably open up a side slot).
Thank you!
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
2 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Terminus
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Jace the Mindsculptor
1 Council's Judgement
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Plateau
1 Volcanic Island
2 Tundra
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
Side
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Counterspell
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Flusterstorm
2 Red elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wear//Tear
1 Blood Moon
I don't know whom you're asking, but when the subject turns to the worst card in the deck, I think that dubious honor belongs to Council's Judgment. I understand how necessary this function is in the deck and how the card makes the deck better, but it's clunky even in the matchups where it's most needed. I don't like stressing my mana against DnT to cast this thing, but I need to do it if that's the way the deck has given me to kill Aether Vial or Batterskull. Neither does the fact that it doesn't target become useful that much. TNN is pretty easy for this deck to kill. Lingering Souls was tougher.
As clunky as it is, running Vindicate is too horrible to contemplate so I guess I should be grateful this option exists. The deck is so wonderful that I feel weird saying that any card in it is the worst one.
DTT is great though, I can't imagine going back to the days when I played without it. It's the perfect pressure spell when I'm winding up for the turn that will put away the game, or help me claw back into one that's been getting away from me. Jace would often be awkward in a lot of those places, a 4 mana Brainstorm basically.
Entreat is the worst card in the deck by a wide margine.
Thanks for your answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lormador
English is not my native language so I will try to explain myself the best I can.
DTT it's a great card we agree on that. But lately I've playing against a lot of Omnitell and mirror matches where I really miss REB effects main deck (also there are some hybrid countertop stoneblade in my meta at least). It seems that the legendary build it's very well suited to fight against those decks because of all the tools they have (blasts and venser) and the ponder list i'm not so sure right now: with the 4 ponder and 2 dtt it's like a lot of drawing but no so much real action. I really think that Ponder is the correct way to go, but I'm not so sure about DTT.
About EtA, I don't know man, that card is very hard to deal for most of the decks. Specially BGx (that are a considerable part of the meta).
Wow. Next it'll be "Terminus is a bad Swords to Plowshares". I already heard it once.Quote:
Originally Posted by YamiJoey
Everyone seems to be down to 2 Jaces. The miracles are a terrible with Dig, but give Jace half his strength. This whole progression seems to be happening slowly, but in the end I can see a Ponder/Dig CounterTop deck coming about that doesn't even run miracles. Mentor would be much stronger in that deck and you wouldn't lose it to Terminus.
UW CounterTop Stoneblade...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher
I think he's right. Entreat and Judgment are the only cards in the deck that require WW, and Entreat is the one that you almost never want to see until you've got the game locked up, i.e. until you've seen most of your other cards already to survive to that point. Judgment is still OK to draw early against Lilianas, equipment, and so on, but an early Entreat is a nightmare. I'm definitely going down to 1 main, and I wouldn't be surprised to see decks eventually run their Entreats in the sideboard entirely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher
DTT isnt even close to being an below average (the average in miracles is very high) card. DTT is the card that gives miracles an additional 10%. Especially against decks with discard, DTT almost punishes the opponent for playing a hymn or in fact any discard spell. before DTT miracles was 50% against BG/x decks at most. Now i feel the matches are 50% at least.
There is much talk about banning entreat, terminus, top... but if wizards wants to ban any card from my beloved deck, it has DTT. Once you ban DTT the BG/x decks will be more popular again. But yeah this is another discussion.
Council's Judgment is arguably a bad card. But there is a risk in not playing it because you dont have an answer to a resolved XXX (insert high power card here, like aether vial). I wouldnt play CJ in the SB, but its an absolutely good maindeck card.
Entreat is just nuts. So basically anyone who believes all entreats and/or DTT are replaceable should leave this forum. :laugh:
My bad for trying to get some feedback in this arrogant forum :rolleyes:
What do u guys think about the 4daze/4mentor list? Thanks!
I'm playing 2 Mentors and no Dazes. If you start adding Dazes and going to a high number of threats, you're no longer a Control deck, and you're playing something totally different. I'd suggest adding Stoneforge Mystic at that point and just playing UWx Blade.
Entreat is the worst card in the deck. I've been doing fairly successfully without it, and I would've attended Lille with 0 copies in my 75 if I would've been able to go.
daze is a card nobody expects so as a surprise factor it could be good,