Most Elves/TNN hate isn't mainboard typically, so I'm not sure that changes it at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by 5doorfury
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Most Elves/TNN hate isn't mainboard typically, so I'm not sure that changes it at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by 5doorfury
Sorry, I mistyped. I should have said "sideboards" where I said decks. The charms and persecutions from the SBs are really good against our EtW plans. Has this been an issue for anyone?
Unless you board in additional ETWs and make it your entire game plan, not really - if the opponent wants to SB in 3 Golgari Charm then I'm going to fist pump when they draw 3 more bricks. Seriously, Stoneforge Mystic is a much bigger problem than Golgari Charm vs the ETW plan because it actually establishes a clock.
Was enough to convince me not to play my full foiled/altered TES at our nationals - even though I have top8'd with it 2 times before. Maybe I overestimated the value of T1/2 goblins but I feel like the credibility of that threat is important for TES.
@Deviant and Final Fortune:
- This is the conversation I was trying to start. I feel like having a tempo style deck bring in these types of cards is generally a "fist pump," however, the number of times an early EtW is the best option is much greater than the times that a tendrils win makes sense or is even feasible. It's to the point that I'm not sure how to play the post-board games against these types of decks so that I can feel confident in an EtW line when a golgari charm could be a brainstorm or ponder away.
The shift in the protection suit serves the goblin plan better than ever before. Silence doesn't help much against Golgari Charm, Engineered Explosives Stoneforge Mystic or Zealous Persecution ... Cabal Therapy does.
Nothing really changes. Just like before, people could go insane to try to beat Empty and then lose to Tendrils. You have Probe and hand disruption to make sure that, if you're going to Empty, you're not losing to anything but their next 2 draw steps. The only difference is that people might be more inclined to over sideboard to beat goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5doorfury
I definitely agree, the more that people side-in hate against EtW the more its doing its job. While its always nice to be able to turn 1-2 a bunch of goblins and put your opponent on a two turn clock, it is the secondary win for the deck and a smart opponent will realize this. If he/she is siding in more cards against your secondary win, you've had the upper hand from the start!
Lolwut?
Oversideboard to beat goblins?
Golgari charm f.e answers carpet, swarm and etw. It is a rather well-positioned card atm. I'd expect people to pack it.
And it is not oversideboarding, it is respectfully sideboarding to deal with the problems at hand.
Going goblins and stating they get "2 draw steps to deal with them I just rape their hand and they need to get lucky to win" is just delusional. People play ponders, brainstorms, shuffle effects. Some people even play well and keep the charm on top of lib to make you WANT to go for goblins. Real gameplay is dirty like that and the goblin plan has gotten worse. In my eyes that takes a a bullet out of TES's six-shooter.
Yes, it is very well positioned but if you're assuming that the person plays BUG colors you're definitely limiting the matchups that we're actually discussing.Quote:
Originally Posted by deviant
I don't disagree that the win potential of EtW has fallen of late due to the extra hate, but at the same time, its still forcing people to deal with it right? To me that's still going a way towards lessening the chances that your opponent has a threat or another answer to put more pressure on you.
what deck are you bringing in carpet for that has golgari charm? bug delver?
Alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by deviant
If your swarm is going to die, don't sideboard it in. I can't think of a deck with Golgari Charm that I would board it in against to begin with.
If they want to spend 2 mana to kill a Carpet, sure. That's fine. I can only imagine this happening against Team America.
If your opponent Brainstorms/Ponders and keeps and then you're able to go off, maybe goblins aren't for you. Might I suggest Tendrils? It's been clinically proven to be a fine solution to opponents who have a Golgari Charm on top of their library.
I don't see a problem if they use Golgari Charm on Xantid or Carpet. That's not only a bad play from a tempo deck, but also reduces the outs against a follow-up EtW.Quote:
Originally Posted by deviant
In most cases they have indeed only the 2 draw steps to find a solution. Flashbacking Cabal Therapy to strip cantrips/sweeper has become a common play for me.
will give it a read during my subway Ride to work. Just noticed how often you board out the 3rd Mox in favor of SB manasources and the round 1 value-Therapy-flashback.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
WTF? I don't SB in a single one of those cards vs BUG ...Quote:
Originally Posted by deviant
Versus Team America you might.
The Charm is pretty useful. I'd board some in against TES.
There's plenty to take out anyway.
People. I am not saying that carpet/swarm is correct to sb in against bug delver/shardless/landstill or chub toad midrange. I'm saying people DO that. I saw multiple times in our nats storm players sb in carpets and swarms against bug colored decks. Those sb choices might have worked out better if the presence of TNN didn't make charm a 3-of in the sideboards, but people instead played maybe one like before BoM.
All else being irrelevant people have more answers to goblins now than they did 1 month ago.
Plan accordingly is all I wanted to say.
(Also zealous persecution is seeing more play, as it should)
Do you have a decent sideboard suggestion for chub midrange?
I'm going to hold off on updating the sideboard guide, I don't think my sideboard is likely to stay. I'm considering some changes, mainly a lack of Carpet of Flowers. It was fine, but I want to try to add in a Massacre and something else (Chain of Vapor/Discard spell).