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Slavering Nulls
1R
Creature - Goblin Zombie Uncommon
Whenever Slavering Nulls deals combat damage to a player, if you control a Swamp, you may have that player discard a card.
2/1
Definetly playable, but other than that, good?
Must be awesome agains't combo and control decks. In Rb obviously.
What do you guys think?
It looks good but I think it is strictly worse than Warren Instigator for the maindeck. Both deal 2 damage when they connect but Instigator's effect seems much more powerful.
Not as good as the Seacliffs spoken about earlier but on colour....
Land (Common)
~ ETB tapped
T: add R
When ~ ETB, target creature cannot block EOT.
It`s called Smoldering Spires and I don't think it'll make the cut, but testing could be done.
Lots of people don't Like Instigator because it "does nothing" if you do't have a gob in hand. I like Gator, but for those who doesen't, Slavering Nulls could be a great option. With Warchief in play, it is awesome me thinks.
Here is my list, by cmc:
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
3 Skirk Prospector
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Mogg War Marshal
3 Stingscourger
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Recruiter
3 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Wasteland
17 Mountain
-sb-
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Price of Progress
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Goblin King
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Tinkerer
My main question is how do you guys feel about prospector/war marshal against chieftain/instigator. Prospector allows you to chain goblins sometimes and can really make a game explode, also it can serve as mana fixer and is as good as fanatic to remove bridges against ichorid.
I would like to fit in some number of chieftains although i don't know what to take out. I will probably include Thorn of Amethysts in my sideboard instead of the Pillars. (Still waiting to buy those and a couple of Chieftains until i figure out what configuration i will play).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelis
I decided to cut one mountain to put in a Stingscourger.
My sideboard was (I had no more time left to think it over properly):Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelis
2 Pithing Needle
2 Stingscourger
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Shattering Spree
4 Pyrokinesis
Ok I went 4-2 yesterday (21 people attending, a new record!) losing to Dragon Stompy round 1 and LEDless Dredge round 6. I had a lucky win against Aggro Loam since he was manascrewed twice (partly thanks to my Wastelands). Other wins: Homebrew Clerics, Rb Goblins, NOPRO Countertop (thanks to Rishadan Port). And nobody played Merfolk.
VS DS: Game 1 I made the mistake of not wasting his City of Traitors when I could so he could go Seething Song, Arc-Slogger while he already had Taurean Mauler on the board. Game two I didn't draw anything useful. In the end I had 4 mountains and 4 Rishadan Ports in play. But had not drawn anything that could have swung it in may favour. It was just a matter of time before he had a 5/5 Mauler and 2 Rakdos Pit Dragons in play.
VS LEDless dredge: Lost game 1. Game 2: he put all his goodies in his graveyard without going off. So my Ravenous Trap did it for me. Game 3: I kept Ravenous Trap, Lackey, Matron and 4 lands. He was able to Cabal Therapy my Ravenous Trap, Keep my lackey at bay with Tireless Tribe, and also Cabal Therapy my Matron. I was able to hold out a while but he just was faster. I drew no more hate either.
Next time changes main:Quote:
Originally Posted by lillelassie
-1 Gempalm Incinerator
+1 Stingscourger
Probably
-1 Chieftain
+1 Warchief
SB:
- 2 Pithing Needle
- 1 Stingscourger
+ 1 Ravenous Trap
+ 1 Tormod's crypt
+ Gempalm Incinerator
So that would make:
1 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Ravenous Trap
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Shattering Spree
4 Pyrokinesis
Or when I expect a lot of combo (ANT in particular)
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Shattering Spree
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Thorn of Amethyst
I've decided not to put in tutorable Goblins (Sharpshooter, Tinkerer) since they need haste to operate and I don't like having to wait another turn if they don't have haste.
@ddt15
I think you mean Goblin Ringleader not Recruiter.
When you want to go with Prospector why not 4 War Marshals and 4 Prospectors? You can cut a Siege-Gang Commander and maybe a Piledriver or Stingscourger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt15
Banned in Legacy, and you shoul'd consider playing port.
Put this in the tournament report thread, but I'll toss it here as well:
Took 4th out of 39 at DHG in RI yesterday with this list. Took some sparse notes but if asked I could prbably go into more details:
Here is the gist of it:
3 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
15 Mountain
4 Goblin Lackey
2 Warren Instigator
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Stingscourger
3 Gemplam Incinerator
3 Siege Gang Commander
4 Aether Vial
2 Goblin Piledriver
2 Mogg Fanatic
SB:
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Relic Of Progenitus
4 Pyrokinesis
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ravenous Trap(boarded them in once, and it won me the match)
1 Goblin Tinkerer
Round 1: Ben Lukas playing 43 land
G1: I know what he is playing so I keep an amazing hand against him(in a way) of 3x wasteland, moutainx3 and a lackey. I fail to draw any creatures to attempt to outnumber him, he plays loam over 10 times this game then drops mana bond so I scoop.
Board:-2 instigator,-2 SCG,-2 Fanatic, -1 Stingscourger +3 relic +2 Needle +2 Trap
G2: Turn 1 relic followed by lackey, warchief and another relic. Also trap him after he plays intuition and I pound him in a few turns even though he has tablernacle I had way too much mana at that point for it to matter.
G3: Starts sketchy with him playing a treetop village and me going conservative turn 1 relic, and then getting pounded with treetop a few times. I have no creatures aside from incinerator x2 in my hand and I am holding 2x trap. I play an incinerator from my hand and block treetop next turn and incinerate it to reset the creature count. I end up with matron/piledriver beating for 5. He intuitions for a burn spell with retrace(dont recall name) then he burns piledriver, I cant have that shit coming back so I trap him. I dont remember what creatures I played next, but I took him down by 6. The turn before he played loam and he dredges into good stuff, he goes to play loam and I use my 2nd trap and that ends it since I have lethal for next turn.
1-0,
Round 2:Alex: The mirror:
Game 1 takes 32 minutes. It ends up being pretty much me running 3 SCG and him only running 2, and also me running chieftain and him apparently not,that wins me this. Although he makes a play error late in the game that he tries to take back (playing piledriver and swinging with the team although driver doesnt have haste) I inform him of that fact and he goes to untap all his creatures, and I tell him I cant let him take it back, he is tapped out). In a few turns my extra SCG would have won it anyway so he scoops.
Board: -4 vial,-1 Stingscourger+4 Pyrokinesis, +1 Tinkerer{assuming he keeps vial}(really games 2/3 for the mirror depend on who draws pyrokinesis, it is backbreaking)
G2:He goes turn 1 lackey, I turn 1 fanatic and nail it. He plays a lackey on the next turn. I get stuck on 2 mana and scoop to driver/war marshall/warchief to go to g3 and have time.
G3: Pyrokinesis wins this matchup. I take him from 20 to 8 in one turn after I wipe his creatures with kinesis. Then finish it after he cant play anything big enough to matter
2-0,
Round 3:
Tom with UG Merfolk
G1: I get turn 1 lackey, which gets in there once but I dont really have any juice. He gets ahead with goyf and counters my good stuff. I lose this one.
Board: -2 Instigator, -1 SCG, -2 Fanatic, -2 Stingscourger, +4 Pyrokinesis, +3 Red Elemental Blast
G2: I stick a turn 1 lackey. This time I get a chieftain, then a SCG into play. I win this one quick.
G3: Fast goblins and I think I cast kinesis to nail some blockers, I get ahead quick and he cant catch up.
3-0
Round 4:Steve Playing BANT
G1: I thought I had this game lost, he ends up with hierarch x2, knight of the reliquery and pridemage. I resolve a matron for SCG to make me some blockers. He keeps swinging in at me with knight I block with a token and fling it at pridemage, then a hierarch. I stick a chieftain which gete me lethal, I was at 3, I took him from 13 in one turn.
Board:-2 Instigator, -2 Fanatic, -1 SCG, -1 Stingscourger +4 Pyrokinesis +2 Relic
G2: I start off with a great board wiping on him. I pyrokinesis knight, and a hierarch and put on pressure. He is able to come back with double goyf(after I relic once to get them down, he plays brainstorm after I remove the graves and they live) and I try to swing in to kill him (which leaves me open to die if he can stop a creature)he shows me hydroblast and I cry inside.
G3: They call time after my 2nd turn. We end up drawing since I dont stick a turn 3 win
3-0-1,
Round 5: Eric with Canadian Thresh
Yeah, this matchup is bad. Burn, and nimble mongoose make it a hard time for me. I lose in 2
I boarded in kinesis in this match, but it was a blowout regardless, I dont think unless I turn 3 win, they will beat goblins. Bolt, fire/ice, firespout are all amzing against my deck
3-1-1
Round 6:Josh with UGW Counterbalance with NO(paired down)
Need to win this bitch to get in.
Game 1. Turn 1 Vial. He plays turn 2 counterbalance. I stick turn 2 Instigator, instigator brings in chieftain after he swings and he scoops to much goblins on the board.
Board: -2 Fanatic, -2 Stingscourger(he aint gonna bounce proegnitus, but will bounce wall of roots so I can attack!)-2 Instigator, +4 Pyrokinesis +2 Relic
G2: I keep a poor hand, he ends up resolving turn 5 NO for Progenitus. This card is good I hear.
G3. I get some creatures on board and keep him at zero creatures desperately with incinerator/pyrokinises so he cant cast NO. I am able to beat him fast enough. I guess he had some poor draws.
TOPS 8!!!! YEAH
Top8:Corey Mono U Merfolk
If I could pray for a deck to face, this would have to be it.
G1:I play turn 1 vial. He plays mutavault, vial. I play turn 2 driver. Pass. He plays island go. I EOT vial in lackey. Untap. Swing. He animates vault, I incinerator it before the block. I get SCG off lackey, he scoops.
Board: -2 INstigator, -2 Fanatic -2 Stingscourger,-1 SCG +4 Pyrokinesis +3 Red Elemental Blast
G2: This one goes longer. Pryrokinesis does its job. And wipes reejery and kills some mutavaults after combat since I have 2x chieftain in play. I wasnt dealt damage in either of these games
Top 4
Kyle(fellow team awesome member) with Belcher
G1: I have to mull to 3 because I dont see a colored source for the first 2mulls, then no land on the 3rd. I keep wasteland, mountain, ringleader. I plays bayou, tinder wall. I waste the bayou and play mountain. He wins on his next turn
Board -4 Vial, -2 Fanatic, -2 Instigator +4 Pyrokinesis (to nail tinder wall)+2 Needle. This matchup is just praying they have a shit hand and you nail needle on belcher and that will win it for you.
G2: Turn 1 needle on belcher and some fast goblins wins it.
G3: I mull into turn 1 needle. Put that on belcher. He ends up turn 3 or 4 empty the warrens for 14 tokens. My 4 creatures cant keep up with that. I extend my hand and I take 4th place and take 4 Badlands as a prize.... Guess I will have to start playing duals again since I won some
Thx for report! - any changes you would make to your deck? or sb? any time you felt 3 Stingscourger was to much? It seems like a wide meta, since pretty much a different matchup each round.
also would like to know what you boarded vs each deck - if you remember...
you are welcome! Edited post with Board choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by lillelassie
I lost in the top 4 since I dont run goblin sharpshooter in my board. Belcher is pretty much the one deck I would actually care about having it in my SB, but its rarely played. If I have the open slot I may run 1 in my board just in case
He obviously meant ringleader, seeing as how it is in the 4cc spot, so that comment was unnecessary. Also, playing port is a metagame choice at this point, if you are in a heavy aggro metagame without decks like landstill/rock/countertop it is a lousy call. As to his question about prospector/marshal vs. chieftain/instigator, I don't see how you can reasonably be on the prospector/marshal side. Warchief has always been good not only because of the cost reduction (which is nice), but the haste effect. HASTE makes this deck. Few other decks in legacy can make your opponent forced to leave open a W consistently (blah blah dragon stompy but I said consistently). Chieftain is so so strong, and saying "but the 3cmc slot is clogged" is flawed logic. Anybody who is playing with the new-age 8 1cc drops can tell you that it just takes some practice mulliganing to understand the power of chieftain/instigator.Quote:
Originally Posted by fyrisen
Instigator is not an auto-include. However, x2-4 instigator, x4 chieftain (x1-2 is mandatory imo), x2-3 siege-gang (x1 is mandatory imo), x2-4 ports, and 5+ removal spots should always be the first considerations when organizing a decklist. I wrote about how I believe the proper way to contsruct a goblins deck in the primer I sent to Bardo, so I'm not going to repeat it now.
Instigator is bad in the aggro matchup most of the time. Yes, the critics have that correct. Mogg War Marshal is better in the aggro matchup than instigator in a vaccuum. The problem I see with some of the card evaluation with legacy decks is looking at it matchup-by-matchup. This is a big picture format, with lots of different archetypes and lots of random shit can happen in a tournament. Mogg War Marshal is best at being a stalling machine with a goblin subtype. He can get interesting with chieftain as well. However, this is not the philosophy this deck should have. You are not always trying to get into the late game. Dropping a turn 2 MWM is pathetic.
I hate to compare to dragon stompy, but I think it is useful. I remember reading that Dragon Stompy is about questions.The deck comes down to, does your opponent have the answers for the questions (and you screwing yourself with improper mulliganing decisions)? Goblins (and to some extent all aggro decks) are similar to this. Can your opponent answer that instigator? Probably. Can he answer a flurry of threats, however, threats that have to be answered immediately because of the haste effect of chieftain? Moreso, can he handle these threats CONSISTENTLY, game after game?
The question vs. answer philosophy is very important to understanding how to play dragon stompy and it is true here as well. The most important part of this theory is understanding that once you have resolved your question, you have to win as quickly as possible to lower the percentage chance of your opponent drawing the necessary answer. MWM and prospector are slow rolling. You can say "MWM gives us 3 potential turns against tarmogoyf 5 + 5 + 5 that's 15 life!!"
But how does goblins win? Goblins wins when your questions go the distance. Questions in dragon stompy are like leviathians. They are fucking huge, but the deck can have trouble applying pressure consistently. In goblins, our questions are like Usain Bolt short-distance runners BECAUSE of 6-8 haste effects. We might not have macho body-builder threats (aka super large questions), but the opponent will have little time to draw their answer to our questions. The more of these Usain Bolts we play, the less likely the opponent will be able to handle this. These questions come in different forms in different matchups: against merfolk, it is piledriver. Against zoo, the best threat is card advantage, matron/ringleader.
tl;dr, Goblins wins when it forces the opponent into answer mode. This seems really simple, doesn't it? But MWM and prospector don't force our opponent into answer mode. An instigator connection is feared like Bird Flu. If our opponent is unable to establish board control because they are forced to QUICKLY answer our questions, then we have already won. Tacked onto this is a strong late game card advantage engine, putting this deck in the DTB forum.
@ddt15: my biggest concern with your list is simple, 21 lands and 3 SGCs is a bad idea.
@JoeC: I would stay away from sharpshooter. I believe it was Media who said it best (can't remember who it was but I think it was him), when he said about sharpshooter, it will win 1 game but it will suck 1000 others when you imagine it being a chieftain or something related. I know an old player of the deck who goes by nickrit2000 on the source played it because of survival, but that's because killing BoP and rofellos and etc. is important to stopping those decks. Sharpshooter is a horrible tempo sink and I believe the fact that you have to time walk yourself to play him makes him go against the general philosophy of this deck. Oh and that he kills like 3 things in the format.
My thoughts are very unorganized, I know, but I thought I'd share them because people playing cards like prospector really concerns me. MWM is good in an aggro metagame but I would play instigator over him almost any day.
I didnt exactly say I was going to run sharpshooter, I wouldnt exactly make room for him at the moment but if the meta shifted and I had a SB slot open for him, he could prove useful in some situations. In retrospect, I played the singleton tinkerer and didnt cast him once, and if he would have been sharpshooter in my board I would have top 2'd instead of top4. But like you said, he doesnt kill enough in the format at the moment (although I see an asston of BANT and keeping hierarch off the board is good) to really justify playing him. Since I won Badlands I am going to try a black splash the next time I play. That helps my weak combo matchup and earwig is just incredible against just about everything.
I entirely agreee with your points on instigator. The only time he felt really good to me is when im on the draw and I purposely walk a lackey into daze just to land him next turn. I boarded him out in half of my matchups this weekend. I kind of consider him as a card I love seeing but dont mind getting rid of at all for g2/3. Im looking to play black splash in the next tournament since I expect to see more show and tell, NO decks and perish out of the board is just amazing in my meta.. Here is my starting point, anyone with reasonable input please chime in:
4 [TE] Wasteland
9 [P2] Mountain (1)
2 [MM] Rishadan Port
2 [R] Badlands
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [LRW] Auntie's Hovel
// Creatures
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
3 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
2 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
3 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
4 [US] Goblin Matron
1 [LRW] Wort, Boggart Auntie
2 [MOR] Earwig Squad
3 [TE] Mogg Fanatic
2 [M10] Goblin Chieftain
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
1 [MOR] Warren Weirding
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MOR] Warren Weirding
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [AT] Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
SB: 4 [US] Duress
SB: 2 [TE] Perish
Im not sold on port in the black splash... The deck seems way more mana hungry than mono red. Fanatic in multiples is to get in for damage so I can prowl earwig. Aside from the general opinion that fanatic sucks, he still gets the job done when I need him to.
I just got accpeted to post here and I don't have time to go over the Rb decklist I made a few days ago to test, but when I was looking around earlier I was wondering why I didn't see anyone playing Boggart Harbinger in their black-splash builds. He's the same as Goblin Matron but 2 power instead of 1.
Harbringer takes the card just to the top of your library. This makes for a poor substitute for matron. It wouldnt be worth running along with matron sice more tutors isnt what the deck needsQuote:
Originally Posted by jrsthethird
Quest for the Goblin Lord
CMC = R
Enchantment
Whenever a Goblin enters the battlefield under your control, you may put a quest counter on Quest for the Goblin Lord.
As long as Quest for the Goblin Lord has five or more counters on it, creatures you control get +2/+0.
Shame it takes 5 and shame it isn't Tribal!
Someone mentioned Earwig Squad.
Has to be combat damage. From the sound of your post it sounds like you are swarming around but I just thought I would make sure sure you know.Quote:
Im not sold on port in the black splash... The deck seems way more mana hungry than mono red. Fanatic in multiples is to get in for damage so I can prowl earwig. Aside from the general opinion that fanatic sucks, he still gets the job done when I need him to.
I would like to know what other people's opinions are on Earwig Squad.
Does he come down to late to help in the Combo matchups? What matchups does he shine in?
Does the need to connect really hurt him?
Does Warchief's reduction include his prowl cost?
I know it needs to be combat damage to prowl, hence why I said "get in for damage"Quote:
Originally Posted by arebennian
As for Earwig:
1) If you are boarding in duress, or at least some form of discard it is your best t1 play. Even with the black splash the combo match is shaky at best, although you stand a larger fighting chance with earwig/duress etc... You need to slow them down as much as you can and get the kill as quick as possible.... As for other matchups him taking natural order of 3 of their 4 goyfs is pretty damn good. It also lets you look through their entire library so you get to be prepared for what they may have in their hand etc.....
2) If you didnt need to connect he would be a way more expensive card I would think, but at least in my build with 7 1cc creatures and plenty of chances to deal damage within the first few turns is highly likely
3) Yes.... With squad the absolute nut high play is turn 1 lackey, turn 2 swing and connect, lackey in warchief, prowl earwig..... When they came out with Earwig I almost couldnt believe they made a goblin with the P/T of Juggernaut and Jester's Cap ability.
All that said, your meta should be what decides on you running Rb, Rg, or Mono red Goblins. My meta is starting to shift over to alot of Aggro control, Show and Tell, Enchantress. The black splash has a good edge in that meta change, so I play on giving it a shot
And he didn't call a judge? I'm not saying you're wrong per definition but if I were him I would definitely call a judge. It seems like an illegal attack so in my opinion he has to take it back and then decide how many creatures he want to attack with (0 if he really does not want to attack).Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_C
Wow all this time I thought Matron put it on top of the library too. That helps a lot then. Maybe I should read the cards more!Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_C
Has anyone tested Slavering Nulls, or was this just speculation?
What do you guys think of Boggart Mob? I was paying around with him and he looks amazing. A 5/5 for 4 can take care of most Goyfs (even better if you have Chieftan), and his ability is nothing to sneeze at (more goblins if you connect with combat damage). I think where he really shines is, in addition to the huge body and token threat, which hurts your opponent enough, you have at least 10 goblins with ETB abilities that you can champion to get an extra trigger. Ideally you can champion a SGC, Ringleader, or Matron to get even better card advantage out of him. Also a great Vial drop mid-combat, after they declare blocks. You can "save" a guy from dying and surprise your opponent with extra tokens.
Here goes the discussion again! xD
But on Boggart Mob, wouldn't Lightning Crafter Do the same thing as this guy?
I'm very excited Mono Red got a reliable goblin tinkerer in the form of the new ally.
Tuktuk Scrapper 3R
Creature - Goblin Artificer Ally
Whenever Tuktuk Scrapper or another Ally enters the battlefield under your control, you may destroy target artifact. If that artifact is put into a graveyard this way, Tuktuk Scrapper deals damage equal to the number of Allies you control to that artifact's controller. 2/2
This was long overdue. Will be a singleton that players will have the option of running.
I also like to applaud FoulQ on typing out that insight.
Now I have a question for goblin players. In a Zoo infested meta, I was wondering if tinkering your list to make this match-up winnable was possible. Or is it the same situation as Combo, Board alot or do not board at all?
So I'm guessing I missed out on a hefty Crafter vs. Mob debate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter245
Just looking at the benefits of championing, yeah, but so would Changeling Berserker! I played with the Berserker a little bit but thought that the Mob had more upside; I totally forgot about the Crafter at the time so no opinions there. I think the Crafter would only be good if he were guaranteed to always have haste, but that isn't the case. The mob is always good for the reasons I laid out earlier. The argument for the Berserker I see is that he plays like a Ball Lightning (sans trample). Regardless of whether you or not you have a Chieftan/Warchief, he will always be able to swing the turn he comes down. Your opponent won't be able to chump him every turn, he'll eventually have to trade or spend removal on him, giving you more card advantage. Crafter doesn't get into the red zone as well as Mob or Berserker, so if you want to abuse championing, he has to shoot himself, leaving you down at least a card compared to the other 2 champion creatures. I guess he has his upside as well but I think he's the worst of the 3.
I glazed over this card without realizing it was a Goblin. He's really good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter245
What do you guys use against Counterbalance if you don't splash G/W?