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I often hear the comment "-I don't know how to sideboard against Pox “. I run the rack and creatures as win conditions, the rest of the deck is disruption. Surgicals doesn't work as the deck lack critical components. If the opponent tries hide behind a bridge the double threat of ghasts and the rack will do him in. Destroying the rack only give a temporary relief until i find another.
Etc.
I love it when my opponent is just despondently flipping through their sideboard, wondering what to do. In fact I think knowing how to approach the pox match-up is a mark of a true legacy specialist. No one actually prepares, but knowing how to change their deck/approach is important.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonardoWilhelm
I have always felt that Smallpox or Pox is best when you are pressuring everything. the Land sacrifice is meaningless if you don't continue pressuring with Wastelands and Sinkholes. The discard is meaningless if you don't continue pressuring with Hymns and Lilianas. This is why I never liked Smallpox in Modern 8rack, there was nothing to back up the land destruction, and sacrificing a land was a big cost. The difficulty is of course when things don't line up, or when your opponent gets out ahead. I'm on the verge of cutting Dark Rituals because they are real bad against decks that grind value (Delver, Blade, Pile, Loam variants) but that leaves me cold to decks that can surge ahead on resources or win super fast (Elves, Storm, S+S, Moon Stompy, fast combo). The struggle is real.
Just a heads up, looks like there might be a buyout of Chains of Mephistopheles happening...
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Le...topheles#paper
Then and now Jayemdae Tome, Karn, Scion of Urza
One Karn may be nice. Like a colorless jace.
He'd prefer decks full of racks and cursed scrolls, but yes, he does feel like a colorless Jace, but no ultimate.:cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
I actually really like the new Karn for Pox. Your opponent will likely give you lands, if given the option, and Pox can always use more lands. The fact that he is colorless allows for Wasteland and Factory's to pay for him as well, so it seems rather good honestly. The ultimate is really kind of 'blah', not even close to game-winning in Pox. I like the repeatable card advantage, I don't like that the ultimate isn't very good. Still, it does something very important for a Pox deck, and that's offset the global effects like Smallpox.
Now, Chainer's Torment...another quasi-potentially-good card, similar to the cards we got in recent sets, where 4 mana is definitely a lot but it seems quite good. It's at a minimum a 4 life drain/gain, and then likely at least a 5/5 or better token produced.
The sagas are cute but pretty useless. You have no real control over their timing.
I really like new Karn. I'm thinking I'll try him as a 2x. He's exactly what we've been asking for - a card filtering engine. Granted he's slow and somewhat fragile, but still. The 'ultimate' is somewhat lackluster, but provides a win condition if nothing else. And creating creatures is a good way to stall games, etc. 4 mana is painful, but he'd be broken at 3, so fair enough. Makes me want to play the full 4 rituals. I feel like we'll see him tried out in a lot of decks - a colorless card advantage engine is what a lot of people seemed to be looking for.
shame about the Chains buyout. I checked and now they're $800 or so where they used to be about $400 :( makes me want to pick up a second Nether Void before the same thing happens there
RE the attack all angles - I like this and I feel like it is what Prison Pox wants to be doing. Our best cards (Lilliana, Smallpox) do exactly this. But let's not forget the angle from which we are not attacking: life total. I think that has been a Prison Pox weakness (or a strength, depending on how sadistic you are). I'm not sure what to do to fix it, or if it really needs fixing to any great extent, but I wanted to point that out.
Also, we want to attack all resources, but do so flexibly. Different matchups will have different resources that matter. So a sideboard needs to be tailored to that, I think. Anyway just some thoughts.
Life total is what Pox eats. I run four, and it has happened I have won games by repeated poxing. If that is not your way then cards like the rack should be considered. Alternatives exist, like Ankh of Mishra or forsaken wastes.
i like that his -2 makes an artifact creature since that will play nice with the abyss.Quote:
Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi
the only drawback is that it feels like "BIG" pox; you need to get to 4 mana or play rituals.
You will have no problems reaching four mana in a Smallpox only deck:)Quote:
Originally Posted by non-inflammable
The Japanese Pox Master did it again:
http://mtgkmc.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-557.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjaulnir
hell yeah. this guy is my hero
I noticed he always runs close to 26-27 lands, as opposed to the usual 24-25.
2x Lilliana Last Hope is interesting, as is 2x Phyrexian Totem - anyone have any luck with the latter?
2x Nether Void continues to the be standard for decks running void it seems like
Also the full 4 Innocent Blood but no Fatal Pushes
Aaaaaaaaaah so cool!
I have liked Last Hope (as at most 1 MD 1 SB) but that was in decks with Tombstalker main and Confidant in side :smile: I think for her to be worth a maindeck slot, her -2 should also do something in your deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi
Personally I have gone down to 1 Nether Void, but since I don't run Dark Rituals main it takes me longer to drop one. And maybe Japan just has more combo in its meta?
Also on a personal note, I like my 26 lands in Pox as well. I still manage to get manascrewed due to my own Smallpox effects (or colorscrewed due to Factory/Wasteland), so I wouldn't go lower than 25-26 for sure. A lot of lands are of course close enough to spells (Mishra, Waste, Maze of Ith in his case, ...) that I wouldn't count them 100% as a land.
I don't run 4 Dark Rits with my 26 lands though :tongue:
Yeah I've been running 1 LiLH and have been very happy with her as well, though I haven't been running any creatures. I feel just the threat of the ultimate is fairly strong, especially in a deck that slows the game down as much as we doQuote:
Originally Posted by Fjaulnir
That's good news, I've only got 1 Void :tongue: and there's very little combo here. He lost to combo in the finals though it looks like. Dang would have been cool to have a 1st place Pox in a big tourney.
That's a good call. I've been frustrated by missing land drops a lot lately, think I might go up a bit myself. I think the rituals are very good in his list though, with all the 3 drops. T1 Ritual Totem Thoughtseize is a spicy line too, as is T1 Ritual Totem, T2 Lili (though maybe Ritual Lili is more correct). I'm definitely gonna try out the totems with a few rituals.
BTW wanted to say i love your channel, thanks for being one of the few (only?) people regularly streaming Pox, I watch those videos religously :eek::eek:
He has some funny choices in his sideboard. I figure three Bitterblossom is useful against lands, but what are the obliterator and the fiend supposed to do?
4 Leyline of the Void》
3 Bitterblossom》
2 《Lost Legacy》
2 《Pithing Needle》
1 《Chains of Mephistopheles》
1 Ensnaring Bridge》
1 Necropolis Fiend》
1 Phyrexian Obliterator》
I figured bitterblossom was against Lands and Depths and Control matchups in general...
The Fiend and Obliterator he's had on the board for a while. Not really sure... they're good in creature-heavy matchups? If you land an obliterator against a deck that relies on bolt to kill stuff that's prolly GG. And Fiend is repeatable removal... They seem unusual to me but hey
Fun fact: his deck name translate in Google Translate as "You do not know the Pox yet" :cool::cool::cool:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18761&d=317341&f=LE
2 top8s in one day??? what a day to be a Pox player
still on 2x Nether Void
This guy also running the 27 land mishmash that Ryosuke runs. Complete with Spawning Pool and Bojuka Bog, though with Port and Geier Reach instead of Ifnir Deadlands. My guess is Geier Reach is there because he's also running Chains
he follows Adachi with 2x Hymn. seeing a lot of lists with less than the 4x hymn, and 2x seems really low, but I've been on 3x for a while... interesting
Mastermind's Acquisition is the spiciest thing here I think, and he's got a sort of wishboard thing going... kinda interesting
It seems like Pox is bigger in Japan (I think this was a Japanese tournament too)? I wonder why that is? Comparing these and the other Japanese lists, they seem to have a sort of core list that looks something like:
Nonlands:
4 blood
4 thoughtseize
2 hymn
3-4 ritual
4 smallpox
4 liliana
2 nether void
assuming 4 rituals and 26 lands that leaves about 10 slots free for the various mishmash of pox 1-ofs. That almost always includes at least 1 toxic deluge, 1 bridge, 1-2 scrolls, 1 crucible, 1 chains... but there are a ton of others with varying degrees of spiciness. i honestly think the idea of running a tutor in there is quite smart, letting you get the particular part of the mishmash that will break the game for you
the lands also have a set of flexes it looks like:
4 wasteland
4 factory
4 urborg
8-10 basics
1 tabernacle
but then to get to 26-7 there's a whole bunch of 1-ofs: cabal pit, maze, spawning pool, port, sanitarium, etc
thought about this way, what jumps out to me is that 10 is a whole ton of flex spots. can use those 10 spots or so to focus the deck, in this or that direction for the different metas though. and i kind of love that there is so much room but it also speaks to the fact that pox is not a finished or highly tested archetype.
anyway, nothing groundbreaking here, but just thought i'd share some thoughts.
Yes, there could be something of a Japanese school of Pox. Given the language barriers that is quite likely.
"It is a Pox deck, Jim, but not as we know it!"
Kind of wrote this mostly for myself, but just for fun, here's a tournament report from todays little weekly:
I was inspired by the Japanese lists and tried to run something similar, with higher land count and more creature-oriented removal (ie no sinkholes). My list is almost Ryosuke's, with a few small shifts (I didn't have a second Void or LiLH so I used Crucible and NoSB instead, for example). Here it is:
4 Lilliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Cursed Scroll
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Phyrexian Totem
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Nether Void
4 Smallpox
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Innocent Blood
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Beseech the Queen
4 Dark Ritual
1 Fatal Push
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Spawning Pool
1 Maze of Ith
10 Swamp
SB
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Bitterblossom
2 Tombstalker
2 Pithing Needle
2 Lost Legacy
2 Collective Brutality
1 Ratchet Bomb
Overall I really quite liked playing this list. Probably this is just psychological junk, but for the first time I felt like I was playing a tuned deck, as opposed to a bunch of cool black cards. Not that I didn't make a ton of mistakes all night, but hey. Totem was cool, though mine always got swords-ed, and more lands was actually pretty nice. My SB is more different than his - Brutality is a concession to the presence of burn at the store and I've been liking Tombstalker so I wanted to keep him around. Also I don't have the creatures he uses (and Obliterator seems weird... :eyebrow:). Anyway here we go!
Round 1: Grixis Delver
Game 1 he stalls on lands and a Smallpox puts him on nothing. I’m low on lands too, with just a Totem and a swamp. Eventually he lands a pyromancer, but I land a Bridge. He can’t seem to do much to get through, and when I drop a Cursed Scroll followed by a Liliana he just scoops em up.
SB: out 2 Totem, 2 Hymn, in 2 Brutality, 1 Tombstalker, 1 Ratchet Bomb
Game 2 gets mega grindy. He’s got enough lands to make stuff happen, but I keep killing his threats. At one point he loses a Gurmag to forgetting to pay for Tabernacle. I drop NoSB onto an empty board. the game grinds even longer but the end is near for him since almost all his creatures do nothing at this point. I start hitting him with a 1/1 factory, which is eventually joined by its brother to take the game
Games 2-0, Matches 1-0
Round 2: Sneak and Show
I hate this matchup so much and seem to constantly lose to this deck. Game 1 I think he’s on Grixis Delver so I go for Ritual Crucible so I can wasteland lock him. But he gets turn 2 Griselbrand. Innocent Blood not so good against draw-7s and free counters.
SB: out 2 blood, 2 deluge, 1 push, 1 NoSB, 1 nether void, 1 crucible, in 2 needles, 2 lost legacy, 2 collective brutality, 2 tombstalkers
Game 2 is the first game I have ever won of this matchup. We both mull to 5. I get turn 1 needle on Sneak attack. Follow up with turn 2 hymn for his show and tell. rip a second hymn to tear his hand to nothing. draw Beseech and yes I do Beseech the dark queen of Pox herself: Liliana shows up trying to keep him off everything. Then I rip Tombstalker to close it out. If everything goes right we can win? Tips on this matchup appreciated
Game 3 he has turn 0 Leyline of Sanctity. I have turn 1 Liliana of the Veil. I manage to hold him off for a bit and get a few factory beats. He drops a Sneak Attack but without mana to push anything through. He’s got two cards in hand, and I’ve got 3 mana including Urborg and a Maze. I plus Liliana, then drop another and plus it - we’re both hellbent, and I just need him not to topdeck a creature. Top card is Emrakul. Game over.
Games 3-2, Matches 1-1
Round 3: Esper Blade
This guy has to be sick of playing against me and sighs every time. I manage to consistently beat him, so I guess there’s a reason for that. Game 1 he kept a 1 land hand and gets wastelanded and loses. Don’t know why he did that against Pox but hey I’ll take the wins where I get them
SB: out 2 dark ritual, 1 fatal push, 1 LiLH, 1 Nether Void; in 2 Bitterblossm, 2 needle, 1 bomb
Game 2 I stall him a bit but he lands his own LiLH. I have to needle it since he has a swords for my totem. I drop a scroll and start pinging him a little. He gets to four lands and I have smallpox but he doesn’t have a creature so I let it go. I think in Jace matchups, keeping them off 4 lands is a priority, cuz he drops Jace next turn. I am able to sort of pressure it with scroll and factory, but he kills the scroll and swords the factory. Jace eventually takes over the game and the ult kills me.
Game 3 we go back and forth in the early turns, both just building mana. I get to 5 while he’s kind of stuck on 3. I smallpox him, he forces, and then I drop Liliana. I try to kill him with Totem but he has the swords. I then drop Pithing Needle. He has a strand and lets it resolve… I’m not sure whether to try for the stone rain or needle that giant jerk Jace. I go for the land and I think it was just demoralizing him so much cuz he just kinda crumpled, even though he drew lands afterwards. Liliana is doing her thing, but he eventually gets the Jace. Jace is too little too late though, as I have double-factory beats which kill Jace and then kill him.
Games 5-3, Matches 2-1
Round 4: Elves
This guy is new to the deck and plays very slow which is kind of frustrating but understandable. Elves is hard to play. First game he mulls to 5 while I keep 6 (my first hand was 1 of each Lili and 5 lands). I kill a few features, then set up scroll and Liliana. GG
SB: out 2 hymn, 2 totem, 1 crucible, 1 nether void, 1 inquisition, in 2 needle, 1 ratchet bomb, 2 collective brutality, 2 bitterblossom (not sure about blossoms, or cutting the discard... )
Game 2 I have a bizarre opener with ritual and double bitterblossom. I consider going for turn 2 ritual blossom, but it seems dumb, especially as i draw tabernacle. So i go for the Tabernacle plan. Unfortunately, Tabernacle can be neutered by Cradle. So in the battle of expensive lands, I ultimately lose. Misplay of the day also was using Beseech the Queen for a Toxic Deluge when I should have just gotten Wasteland. Little men beats eventually beat me, though it takes him a while. I never play a bitterblossom, worries that the life loss will hurt me too much and it won’t be worth it behind tabernacle. Honestly blossom feels bad in this matchup, and i think i'd rather have a different card.
Game 3 I go ritual LiLH, pretty much the best opener we can get against them. My hand doesn’t have double black though, and I kind of just pick off stuff and keep him slow. Eventually I get her ult, but I’ve stupidly used all my removal. He Natural Orders for Progenitus, and would be dead to a sac effect. I have 2 smallpox, but only 1 swamp. I do the math though, and with factory and the zombies I can still race him, unless he drops 2-3 elves to block with. Instead, next turn he uses another Natural Order to find Craterhoof. But Craterhoof + Progenitus is not enough to kill me, and even after a zombie dies to keep me alive, the rest swing back and take the game. Turns out Liliana is the queen of Pox, no matter which incarnation.
Games 7-4, Matches 3-1
In the end I was 7-4 in games, 3-1 in matches. Any advice on sideboarding much appreciated. Enjoy!
PS if anyone knows how to spoiler things so they don't take up so much room just let me know, I feel kind of bad clogging up the board with this stuff... :rolleyes: