Just as Malakai said. No one was playing such a teched out deck like this before him. He figured out the metagame and tuned a deck for it. He's a master deck adepter.
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Just as Malakai said. No one was playing such a teched out deck like this before him. He figured out the metagame and tuned a deck for it. He's a master deck adepter.
How many times did Saito even play goblins or zoo?
I'm not a pro player or anything but I fail to see how adding 3 perish to a sb is the new "teched out" version of Merfolk that beats zoo. I'm sure the engineered plague at 4 really helps vs the goblins match up, but I don't think 3 Perish added (by themselves) are that awesome. Bring in engineered plague vs zoo? A resolved Grim Lavamancer is gg? The problem vs zoo has always been them burning all the lords until you get 4/4's out and he didn't even have Kira to protect his creatures. Merfolk loses to kird ape or loam lion if you can't get any lords to stick and with no BEB's/Kira I don't see how Merfolk can protect their creatures.... Zoo has more creatures then you have perish and the Zoo in the Seattle meta all have the equipment package which is very hard to beat.
I am not trying to take anything from dudes win, but I really am curious as to what people think (besides saying he is awesome) Everyone knows standstill and spell pierce are good vs combo/blue matchups, so where is the pure genius? Does anyone know what he sb out vs the zoo/goblins matchups
I suggested splashing black somewhere a mile back in the thread, but it was only for Plague. This was when Goblins was a more relevant MU.Quote:
Originally Posted by dar482
Engineered Plague naming "cat" against zoo kills or weakens Stepe Lynx, Loam Lion, Wild Nacatl, and Qasali Pridemage.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlopeeJ
In my defense, since you picked MY quote to Necro from page 1 of the thread,Quote:
Originally Posted by timtom178
1. It was on page 1 of the thread, before the printing of Merfolk Sovereign and Coralhelm Commander, when people were still suggesting Riptide Pilferer, Seasinger, and Sage of Fables.
2. I still stand by the argument that Merfolk sucks at winning damage races, which is why people are sitting here debating the viability of black in sideboard as an option to stop Goblins and Zoo. It just sucks less now that there are 8 more lords available than there used to be. Also factor in that 6 of the other 7 decks in the GP top 8 don't depend that heavily on damage racing, but more on establishing control or comboing off.
3. I still stand by that Umezawa's Jitte is a good sideboard option.
4. I clearly don't disagree with Merfolk being a true competitive legacy deck, as I chose it to play at SCG Atlanta, went 4-3 with it, and made notable if not horrific play mistakes in two of my three losses.
The point, tho, is that with the rising of combo decks like Sneak Attack, Aluren and Doomsday along with ANT makes Zoo less and less viable in the meta, barring stuff like MDing 3-4 Gaddock to hope and survive long enough to win the damage race.
Same goes with Goblin: they both have horrible MUs against decks that are becoming extremely popular.
Merfolk has good MUs with the most popular decks (countertop, landstill, New Horizons and combo decks of all shapes and forms) that compose a huge part of the metagame, but has a couple weak (but still winnable) MUs.
That's the reason why it is a contender.
Obviously if your specific metagame is composed of 90% Zoo + Goblin you'd be better served by Enchantress and playing Merfolk shouldn't even be considered, but in a tournament like a GP, with 3 byes to clean up the random junk and most of the aggro, Merfolk is THE deck to play.
Perish also gg's New Horizons.
Understand this now: there is no "rise" of Aluren. Aluren hasn't gotten anything fundamentally new since portal was rotated into Legacy, at which point we all tried it and noted that it wasn't good enough. Aluren may be a deck, but it is certainly not a tier 1 strategy. The only reason we're hearing about it is because every time a big event comes up, all of the pros from other formats ask what they can play. Then, someone tells them about a two card combo deck that has infinite force of will while going off.
Merfolk already has very good matchups against combo, made all the more favorable by running Spell Pierces and Standstills. It's decks with Mountain and Taiga that pose the problem. Boarding in 8 cards against zoo shouldn't surprise anyone.
No clue on how Saito Sb'd against Zoo.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlopeeJ
I would go on play - 4 Standstill -4 FoW and on draw -3 Daze -3 Standstill for 3 Perish 3 Submerge. No Jitte on draw beacause I do not think Jitte can be equiped in time.
Not sure if this is correct, anyone?
Edit: Goblins; 4 Plague 2 Jitte for -3 Standstill - 3 Daze on draw and -3 Pierce on play.
What i usually do is:
Zoo
-4 Cursecatcher (doesn't do a single thing other than being a 1/1)
-4 Daze (you want to hit 3 mana on turn 3 and 4 mana on turn 4)
+3 Perish
+3 Submerge
+2 Jitte
Goblin
-4 Daze (that Plague MUST come down on turn 3)
-2 Merrow Reejerey (you'll hardly ever want to tap 3 for anything beside Plague and the Vial must be set at 2 barring multiple copies)
+4 Plague
+2 Jitte
I always leave in Standstill because in both MUs they're very good and they at least pitch to Force, if worst comes to worst, plus with a Vial start they're basically an Ancestral Recall.
I think people are often too hasty about taking out Force of Will. If you're keeping in Standstills I wouldn't take it out, as the ability to counter their play is important for dropping the enchantment. I don't think I'd ever take out a lord against either deck. Daze often comes out on the draw if you expect them to play around it.
There's something to be said for taking out Vials, since they're not really "business" spells.
And for those less financially endowed, here's a mono-blue sideboard that has pushed me to 13-3-1 over the past week:
2 Jitte
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Submerge
2 Mind Harness
2 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Vendillion Clique (for control, enchantress)
You really shouldn't leave standstill in against either, especially goblins. You go island, vial. They can go with either vial or lackey and you are pretty much dead if you go for standstill, unless you have force. There are better cards in the matchup with that SB, take out standstill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaozy
PS: Rejerrey is the best merfolk in the deck. The game will get drawn out against goblins. Why not pay 3?
Only if NH lets you have black mana. I'm 2-0 RB goblins twice in tournaments with NH because they cut their basic land counts for a splash color. I don't see how any version of Merfolk can be any better against NH than the mono-U 16 lord version; this deck has 7 fetches and 4 Wastelands, plenty of juicy Stifle targets, and if you manage to stick a Sea, it can be Wasted.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSleeper
Against NH with that build you need to grab the 2 Islands ASAP and hold a Sea in hand for the turn you want to cast Perish. Anything other than that you open yourself up to being blown out.
Did you go 13-3-1 at the gp or just in testing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
I'm headed to a tournament later this month and I'm working a bit on my sideboard. Do you guys think we need to board anything at all against combo anymore?
I was thinking of doing 2 spell pierce. I'm having trouble fitting it in though. Here is my board as of now:
1 Llawan
4 Engineered Plague
1 Perish
2 Jitte
3 Submerge
4 Leyline of the Void
The 17 rounds over the past week should indicate the GP unless stated otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by nudude
Goblins has no excuse losing to you running NH. I blame pilot error.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrsthethird
You dont need the leylines, replace them with crypt or whatever. Your singleton Llawan seems out of place, if you are expecting mirror you should run at least 2, and what does submerge answer that additional perishes cannot? If youa re going for the splash, Saito's list seems -perfect-Quote:
I was thinking of doing 2 spell pierce. I'm having trouble fitting it in though. Here is my board as of now:
1 Llawan
4 Engineered Plague
1 Perish
2 Jitte
3 Submerge
4 Leyline of the Void
I see your point about the submerges, but saito ran them too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammit67
Why not leylines if I can hard cast them...?
submerge is so you don't always have to board out standstill against aggro, zoo goes turn 1/2 dude, you sumberge it and play standstill
don't plan on hardcsting leyline, it's 4 mana any deck that you REALLY want leyline against can be handled by something else, how about Planar Void?
I've been playing this deck in locals. What's the best way of fighting Zoo with a mono blue list?
My sideboard as of right now is...
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Hydroblast
2x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Jitte
3x Submerge
I need to keep the 5 graveyard hate cards, because of all of the blue decks in Syracuse, there's been an uprising in Ichorid (1/4th of the field).