Printable View
I am very well aware of that Needle can do - thank you very much for pointing out the obvious.
But tell me - which MUs does Team America need to improve by playing Needle? Correct, Miracles. Additionally he told me they were for Miracles and I know how to play TA - and if I wanna hate out Miracles I start with 3 Needles, followed by either more Lillys or Thoughtseizes and Cliques.
Greetings
You're overly thinking, it's called splash damage. People now SB:Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
Golgari Charm: intended to kill TNN, but it's additional enchantment hate, becomes useful against Miracle for no reasons.
Needle: intended to stop Sneak Attack, Stoneforge (popular due to TNN), and Aether Vial... etc.
Liliana: intended to kill TNN, now more popular because Jund Depths (the land deck) runs it.
Re-read what I wrote.
"Has anybody else experienced such a bunchload of kind of dedicated hate or relevant splashhate?"
Greetings
This ain't Strasburg, Phil. This is a sellers market. Needle is fucking dead as... dead. Choke, it's coming back in a big fucking way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
Props if you got the reference. You're probably too young though.
Hmm if you'd said "Ghent" instead of "Amsterdam" I would have been under the impression that I got the reference - you sure you didn't wanna type "Ghent"?
Greetings
EDIT:Changing "Amsterdam" to "Strasbourg" isn't gonna help :D
EDITEDIT: Ain't it two references? But anyways - let's continue this somewhere else. :)
If this was on MODO, chalk it up to the ridiculously warped metagame:Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy
It's been like this for a very long time. I wish there was a history, to see whether Miracles was the top MODO deck before UWR replaced RUG, one of the harder matchups.
Welcome to how I clinched the games against Joe at SCG Seattle. You guys REALLY don't like to see hand disruption, Liliana, and Pithing Needle :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
-Matt
Welcome to my world... One of the stronger players in my meta switched to 12-Post a couple months ago. I'm pretty sure he's maindecking three Needles. Rumor has it that another pretty good player is going to be bringing 12-Post next week also. It might be time to dust off ye ole storm combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
In all seriousness though, I think Needle effects are just very well positioned right now and one of the reasons why Death and Taxes is such a strong deck. It hits a lot of relevant players right now between us, Sneak Attack, and the more relevant half of the TNN/SFM combo. Of course, if you are a strong player in your local meta, it's entirely possible that the meta is simply adjusting to beat you.
I stopped playing the deck since Friday on Modo, because i was afraid of a SDT ban^^ yeah stupid i know, but who the hell knows what Wotc has in mind.
I did some 2mans, 8mans with Jund where i replaced BBE with Xenagos and some EE in the main, i cutted Bolt for them, to have a better Miracle Matchup.
The insight i got: Jund is really good against us if they play more walkers and some answers against Entreat. Luckily they don't play such lists ^^
@UE
I'm a big fan of that card because, but you have to adapt your manabase somehow to support it. Double W is not that easy, and it felt sometimes clunky.
@ UWR being best deck on Modo
I really like that because if you build a good list, there is no tempo deck where we are not favored. I really hope that i play against Tempo all day long at the GP.
Honestly I would play Runed Halo before unexpectedly absent, but maybe that's just me. I can't say I love either of them... I do notice that a lot of times I'm not super excited about the last few cards I choose for miracles, in general.
I'm always more conviced that this deck should go UWb.
Innocent Blood/Diabolic Edict, Disfigure and Massacre for creatures. With Terminus now all of our removal can kill TNN and untargetable creatures
Thoughtseize/Surgical Extraction (alongside Counterbalance and Canonist) for combo.
3 Entreat the Angel, 2 Clique and 3 Jace for the win. We just lose REBs
let's give it a try:
2 Vendlion Clique
4 Brainstorm
3 Terminus
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Disfigure
1 Innocent Blood
1 Diabolic Edict
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
3 Entreat the Angels
1 Vindicate
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Jace, TMS
2 Karakas
4 Flooded Strand
2 Tundra
1 Scrubland
2 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Plains
5 Island
Sideaboard:
3 Massacre
1 Counterbalance
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Moat
2 Energy Field (Goblin, Merfolk)
3 Rest in Peace
3 Thoughtseize
I agree that black is a very powerful splash, in my opinion, and have been very happy using it in previous tournaments. I actually like UBw a lot, and is what I actually run. Most people here will disagree though, claiming that no splash/red only is the way to go. Innocent blood is great vs. the current meta, but morever Liliana of the Veil can just win you games against so many decks on her own. It's a heavy black commitment, but it's not hard to find a single white source when you need a terminus and to even still run entreat. Mostly because any time you'd want to cast entreat, it should be late enough for you to find WW easily. Furthermore, black facilitates better openers vs. unfair decks in my opinion because going thoughtseize into counterbalance/counterspell is far superior to not playing anything turn 1 or 2 and leaving mana up for potential counterspells. Additionally, it gives you a ton of information when you need it in those matchups.
The following is close to a list I ran for a big local tournament in January. I actually ran baleful strixes at that time, but I'm not sure they're that great right now so I replaced them. You have a crazy game vs. creature decks at the get-go and post-board you have an obscene amount of hate vs. unfair decks. Given the distribution of (most) metas, I think this is an acceptable trade-off. Not sure if the list will really be to the liking of anybody here though.
// Lands
4 [A] Tundra
4 [A] Underground Sea
1 [PC2] Plains (5)
1 [ZEN] Swamp (1)
2 [WWK] Creeping Tar Pit
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [IN] Island (1)
// Creatures
1 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
// Spells
3 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil
2 [AVR] Entreat the Angels
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [BRB] Counterspell
3 [V13] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 [AVR] Terminus
4 [HOP] Innocent Blood
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
SB: 4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 2 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [RTR] Detention Sphere
SB: 2 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 1 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
Liliana is the best 3 drop ever but...
"reasonable" cards for miracle are:
BB
Liliana
WW
Entreat
Moat
UU
Jace
Counterbalance
Counterspell
this deck needs a stable manabase, basic lands are our best friends.. 3 double colored mana is something we really can't afford here.
I find ETutor --> Moat is stronger than Liliana (also because Liliana commits you to tap out all as soon as possible and can be Spell-Pierced)
edit: yes, anyway, after just 3-4 matches I find Innocent Blood is probably underrated and should be a staple here. 2+ easily
Heavy mana-costs is certainly a drawback. That said, I think that Entreat is worth running for it's immenser power, even given the casting cost. Additionally, I think in most circumstances when you really want/need to cast an entreat you will be able to find WW to do so. The main "greed" here is BB for Liliana, but I also believe that she's powerful enough to warrant less manabase stability. Basically in the matchups where you want her if you can resolve her chances are she might just completely win you the game.
Also, I don't really understand your comment about moat compared to Liliana. It can also be spell pierced and you have to tap out to play it too...
Liliana can be a very fine card but we should (first) find a way to abuse of her +1 ability.. this way is too much symmetrical
Ahh, I forgot to mention about Liliana's +1 in my original post. First off, Liliana is always an asymmetrical card just due to her nature. You don't need to run "specific cards to abuse her" to make her immensely powerful. In fact, I suspect that most decks running Liliana don't have specific ways to abuse her +1. But, we actually do have ways to abuse her ability. Namely, Sensei's divining top. Top basically extends our hand and won't have to worry about Liliana (in a topdeck situation, because with Liliana that's going to happen). But also Liliana can discard stranded miracles, which is pretty relevant since stranded miracles is a very real problem sometimes.
if we want to play Liliana, imho, we have to find a way to abuse more of her. At least, I do
something like (obviously not it) Bloodghast. that kind of engine
Cool trick with CB + Top:
http://www.twitch.tv/oarsman79/c/3646265
I actually never thought of doing that. That's a great bluff!
good one, indeed. he faked not to have a 1cc drop on top