Until you do it too early and it gets Thoughtseized away.Quote:
Originally Posted by mort-
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
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Until you do it too early and it gets Thoughtseized away.Quote:
Originally Posted by mort-
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Isn't that the problem with every card? The reasonable point against SFM / Skull is Cabal Therapy and the guarantee that he will always hit with his blind cast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
With this being a negative point, the positives are that they have to counter it via CS / FoW, so your own Redblast / Flusterstorm get better, it can roll up the game even if you're really far behind, allows you to stabilize at a relative low life total and the most important one - they have no out for it once resolved.
Perhaps, but I feel that specifically with SFM into batterskull it is a big problem. Often it sits in your hand for a turn, and if they know you are on this plan, all they have to do is wait for you to mess up this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by mort-
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Poron: I use Venser because it's fantastic against Stoneforge Mystic, Liliana of the Veil, and Show and Tell. It is expensive sure, but I think the ability to deal with basically anything more than justifies the cost. Venser is easily my favorite card in the deck (note that I didn't say best). Some people would probably call it a pet card, but I couldn't imagine not wanting to play with it. Frequently control players want to minimize the number of creatures in their decks or go fully creatureless like Reid. I have felt that way many times with other decks. Not here, not now. I believe that the blue creatures available to Miracles are incredibly good, and my goal right now is to see how many I can get away with playing. At the 5K in Columbus I top 8'd with seven, and last night I bumped it up to eight for the first time, and was happy with the couple matches I played.
I find it useless against Show and Tell and Stoneforge Mystic.. In 1 case they win I stamt speed in the other case they play it again for more value and card advantage, they they just play the artifact manually..
I find it great against Planeswalkers generally, but I see only Jace and Liliana. For Jace we have 2 Reb Md.. it's just about Liliana and fog effect imho.
Anyway 2x Karakas and 2x Cavern of Souls are a great idea
Legendary creatures are great because they can chump block and be bounced for the fog effect
Poron, are you absolutely serious or just a very clever troll? One can think of the playability of Venser what he wants, but saying that this card is useless vs Stoneforge Mystic and Show and Tell is a display of a complete lack of understanding for the deck itself and Legacy in general, earlier displayed by your idea of Null Rod. I'd most kindly ask you to think twice before posting, because your posts discourage any serious discussion if it all comes down to things like "Let's play Null Rod" or "Venser is bad vs Show and Tell". Thank you.
Greetings
The problem is that Grixis still runs Daze/Pierce. You cannot reliably jam RiP into play on turn 2. If you leave it in your hand, that's a huge risk as well. Also, some versions run 0 Therapy MD, 2 MD, up to 4 MD.Quote:
Originally Posted by mort-
I find that Canonists recently have been very attractive for various reasons.
what do you guys think of playing a couple of Ethersworn canonist in the SB? And do you think in the current meta it's worth it to play 1-2 blasts main?
Thx
Are you talking about Grixis as one collective, mainly of Grixis Delver and Grixis Control, or only Grixis Control? Pretty sure mort- was just talking about Grixis Control. I've never seen that deck run Daze. Spell Pierce sure. But Daze is only in the delver deck, not the Pyromancer control deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
Using Canonists against Grixis is an interesting proposition. Could you elaborate on your "various reasons" for it?
Canonist is a pretty good meta choice. Really helps against Omni and another tool against ANT, the other tier one combo deck. As for two md blasts, I think it's a mistake not to play two in the md with all the Dig decks running around. Having a way to one-for-one counter that card is pretty important to not get too far behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by index
hm ok, but the next question is do we need to stock up to 3 volc if we play 2 blasts main? and the second is, do we need a whole playset of it? ( 2 Main 2 SB )
thx
Yes, if you decide to run 2 blasts main, you need to play 3 volcanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by index
Also yes, 4 between md/sb is fine in this meta.
Yeah, I was talking mainly about Grixis Control in which slamming it turn 2 is pretty good. Most of the time they'll have to force it which is a trade I'm willing to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonslayer_90
Are you also Dragonslayer90 on Modo? We might have played yesterday or the day before.
Edit:
On the Blasts main.. personally I don't like it. The problem I see is that, when you run into BUG, they can't counter a Hymn or Liliana, which is why I like Pierce more.
Liliana and hymn are not really a big part of the metagame right now because of DTT... So REB is not only great because it's awesome vs the the 2 best decks but also because the decks where it's bad is mostly hated out by these anyways.
If you side in Rest in Peace and siding out out snaps and digs, is RIP powerful enough to merit such a plan? I get that it shuts down there engine, but I'm usually hesitant to side out snap and dig in most matchups even when I'm bringing in gy hate like rip or relic since these cards are really helpful in most matchups, especially grindy ones. I guess it helps you have Stoneforge in your list if you are who I think you are on Modo. I think maybe siding out dig might be good but less hesitant to side out snap even when bringing in RIP.Quote:
Originally Posted by mort-
How do you play stoneforge in the Grixis matchup considering they have discard and such?
Yes, I'm Dragonslayer_90 on modo too. If you are who I think you are I think I haven't beaten you in a match yet. I hope I don't seem bad to you. I'm still learning some things about playing the Miracles mirror :P Who are you on modo and will you be going to Prague Eternal and/or Lille? If so I'd love too meet you and talk about Miracles and Legacy. Feel free to private message me on here this will to discuss these things further.
EDIT:
I concur with this but I think you already know that lol. BUG decks seem like worse versions of the fair Dig decks for the same reason they were bad in the Treasure Cruise meta. Sure they are still playable, but why play them when there are better options.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackan
I must just be the bad player I appear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
This said: in which moment do you like to have Venser vs Show and Tell?
Serious questions, please, give me a serious answer.
It's what you put into play with show and tell, bouncing whatever they drop in off it.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
You want your Venser in hand when they try SnT. It either can act as "bounce SnT while on stack if cast with Boseiju" or you can put it in with SnT. The way this works is that both cards enter play and then you chose which card to bounce with your Venser trigger. So he singlehandly kills the Emrakul plan. If he put in Omniscience, he has to combo of in response to the Venser trigger, so he can just use instants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
This is incredible useful if their plan was to cast Emrakul after SnT resolves via Omniscience and also if he cast SnT via Boseiju, as you can concentrate your countermagic to counter his Dig / Cunning Wish while the Venser trigger shuts of his sorcery speed cantrips.
On Blast vs. Pierce: I think in a known meta the choice is a lot more easy. I've currently chosen Pierce because, while BUG might not be that good at the moment, I'm testing for GP Lille and assume that the chance of running into BUG there are a lot higher than a local / online Meta. If BUG is out of the equation, I'd probably chose Blasts, although I still don't like them, as I don't like dead cards (in MUs like Elves / DNT) in my deck.
As for the Stoneforge, I usually play them pretty agressive, forcing them to have something. If they have not spent a Therapy there's a bit of a gamble. You might have the read on your opponent just not having it OR if he's waiting for his engine to get running. The nice thing is, it's such an important card for them in the matchup, but I don't really care about it. Therapies aren't actually that much of an issue. The first one will strike before a Forger resolves most of the time (and it won't be named as nobody expects it). Bolt is actually more dangerous, but even then... I'm fine with a killed SFM. It's kind of hard to explain. The SFM plan gives this deck a - in this meta - really reliabe plan C that wins against some decks on its own. So they have to do everything to stop your plan C (which they can only FoW btw, allowing you to trade even better) while you don't care that much about it's wellbeing because you have plan A and B.
While I can understand that boarding out Snapcaster / Dig might seem strange, I want every card in my deck to do something at (possibly) every stage of the game without me making carddisadvantage if possible. So I'll attack the decks engine as efficient as possible while none of my cards are affected.
Another plus to the white cards is that they are.. well.. white. They can't blast it, they can't flusterstorm it, which makes resolving them a lot more easier.
My sample size is currently very small (about 60 games played against various decks), but if you'd like I can upload my MU statistics and also my list. As it is, I'm incredibly happy as to how it performs.
Do you all realize that, if not countered they win with a single Cunning Wish at that point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Against Miracle which has no clock at all, do they rush in SnT without Omniscience in hand?
Wear/Tear for W or Reb blasts is as good as that. It stops them from playing sorcery speed things
Moreover, Vendilion Clique played with SnT shuts them off of the Emrakul plan in case thay have both in hand.
Really, I prefer
Canonist
Meddling Mage
Red Blasts
Cliques
all more than Venser in this matchup
Can Venser, Shaper Savant target Emrakul, the Aeons Torn that has protection from colored spells?Quote:
Originally Posted by mort-
Venser isn't a spell, its an ability from a permanent. so it should work, iirc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronatog
Correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderPreaux
Obviously, but Venser lets you hold your counter for the Wish instead of fighting over snt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
and, with Omniscience they cast it back again cheating 1 more turn.
Venser is good only in Boseiju situation. you bounce SNT to hand, if they play it again then you can counter it.
Anyway, that's the only situation in which I can find it usefull (from turn 6 on then)
as well as more REBS or Wear/Tear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
which are 1 mana instead of 4
Now I'm also thinking you're just a really good troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
The best plan against them is
Canonist/Meddling Mage
REBs (many, really many. like 4)
Karakas
there will never be a player idiot enough to play Show and Tell into Emrakul against Miracle.Quote:
Originally Posted by mort-
I am now just truly confused what you are even talking about. What are they "casting again"? It's definitely not the omniscience you just bounced and it is not the Show and Tell that is now in the Graveyard. And Karakas as a good answer? What? They will always hardcast Emrakul, so bouncing it is quite useless unless you are in turn 5 of extra turns.
you really have opponents who play SnT to Emrakul against Miracle?
Lol they get exposed to Council and Terminus as well in that case.. it can just happen online against veeery new players.
Ok, so in that context:Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Karakas is good.
So they cast Emrakul via Omniscience. Get a Time Walk. You bounce with Karakas. They cast Emrakul again, get another Time Walk. Your Karakas is now tapped.
And you asked why Venser is so good in that MU, not if there are better cards. We explained it to you. And you're like "ok but this all sucks, I'd rather play other cards". Well, by all means, play them. But please do not look down on players that have actual experience with the card.
Also, they will obviously try to rush SnT. Because the longer the game goes, the higher the chance that the Miracle pilot will establish a lock of sorts.
These past 4 pages have probably lowered my IQ by at least 15 points.
Poron I feel like you're seriously misunderstanding what people are saying:
Opponent casts Show & Tell.
They put in either Emrakul or, more likely, Omniscience.
You put in Venser.
Venser's trigger goes on the stack and bounces their Emrakul or Omniscience back to their hand.
If they cheated in an Emrakul, they're back to square one.
If they cheated in an Omniscience, and they Cunning Wish for a Trickbind or something, you counter the Cunning Wish.
If they counter your counter, they had a hand with Show & Tell, Omniscience, Cunning Wish and counter backup, and that is basically the stone nuts for that deck and of course it'll beat you. For all your opponent knows, you have a hand with Venser and 6 counters, and if they lose a counter fight they're done for.
You don't bounce the Show & Tell with Venser, and you certainly don't try to Karakas their Emrakul!
If you feel that your opponent will rush to Snt Emakul, the best card around is Containment Priest.Quote:
Originally Posted by mort-
Ok, anyway, thanks for the explanations.
as I thought, it wasn't clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhyrexianLibrarian
SnT
Omniscience (and whatever from our side)
he retains priority to Emrakul/Cunning Wish
REB/Wear on Omniscience.
Tap Karakas for Emrakul (in case that was their play. Else you just let them resolve and see).
I never said they rush SnT Emrakul. But they will try to resolve SnT (into Omniscience preferably) as fast as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Also, after boarding, SnT Emrakul is a legit plan because your only out at that point is Venser (which only a small number of decks play), Karakas (slightly larger number of decks) or Jace. So it can pretty much steal a game.
at that point they have to pass and you can Terminus or Council or whatever as well as Karakas (or Venser for those who play it) the Emmy.
the normal "go off" turn is always with a hand like: SnT, Omniscience, counterbackup and 1 DTT/Cunning Wish.
Ethersworn Canonist helps so much against them.
SnT: Omniscience (him), Canonist (you).
turn done for him.
EOT Wear on Omniscience.
all done for W or R for Rebs.
Canonist also makes any storm deck life a hell.
Care to explain why you would have Terminus in your deck after boarding?Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Because something can go wrong and it might be needed.
Because many, nowadays are UR Omnitell who hide the red the first match because they are sure that we will side out Terminus and they play Young Pyromancer G2.
My G2
-4 Swords to Plowshares
-2 Jace
-1 Plains
-1 something
+2 Ethersworn Canonist
+2 Containment Priest
+2 REBs (for a total of 4)
+1 Karakas
+1 Enlightned Tutor
You have Explosives and/or Staticaster and/or Pyroclasm for that. Terminus is _the worst_ card in that MU. Also, Containment Priest sucks in that MU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
my list is creatures heavy. I don't play Pyroclasm.
EE doesn't kill YP
Also, if something goes wrong, Pyroclasm doesn't help with Emrkul Terminus does