[Discussion] Melting Pot For Thoughts On Extirpate

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Originally Posted by Deep6er

1) The point that you're missing with Extirpate against Ichorid is the question of, "will you mulligan for it?" If the answer is yes, then you've effectively mulliganed to x-1.

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Not sure I follow, explain this more thoroughly when you get back.

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If no, then getting blown out because you didn't have your hate is a logical way for you to lose that game.

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The majority of the time I won't mulligan to find Extirpate against Ichorid, largely because the decks I play have answers that are decent in the first place, or because there are other cards I boarded in that I'm less happy to see, but based on the rest of my hand are just fine against most Ichorid hands.

For instance, saying I'm playing ITF (or maybe a Threshold varient) against Ichorid. In game 2, my opening hand is 2 fetches, Goyf, Swords, EE, Brainstorm, Force. Despite the fact that I don't have hate in this hand, I'm not mulliganning. EE provides protection against them comboing temporarily, Swords takes down an Ichorid or Narco before they get to flashback Therapy keeping Bridge form triggering at least once, Goyf blocks Ichorid and if they get unlucky and don't mill Bridges provides pressure (as a 3 turn clock likely against the damage they do to themselves), Force keeps their first discard outlet from resolving, and Brainstorm if it doesn't get pitched to Force (gigantic if here) is probably digging me into the hate I brought in.

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Additionally, Extirpate is still the easiest graveyard hate to see coming. Unmask and Cabal Therapy are going to be huge beatings for you. If you didn't drop Crypt/Leyline on turn 0/1, then it's pretty obvious you have either Jailer or Extirpate. The benefit in assuming this is the fact that if they're wrong, and you don't have it, you have no relevant plays.

The fact that you're sitting on Extirpate (and in many cases obviously so),

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Why exactly would you be sitting on Extirpate? Ichorid is the beatdown. They are required to act (sure, they'll slow roll if they think they've got time).

The first target you see, you Extirpate it immediately. They milled a Bridge, it gets Extirpated immediately. They mill an Ichorid? It gets Extirpated. They mill a Narcomoeba (with Cabal Therapy in the bin)? It get's Extirpated in response to it's trigger. They mill all 3 all at once, you Extirpate Bridge. You should be looking first and foremost to Extirpate Bridge, but the majority of the time, you're 100% OK trading 1 card and 1 Black mana 1 for 1 with their creatures acting like an uber Swords to Plowshares that rips copies out of their graveyard hand and Library and doesn't give them life in the process (I'm unsure if you can Extirpate Ichorid in response to them removing a black dude, but if that's possible then that might give you more incentive to sit on it, it's largely inconsequential as Extirpating Ichorid is fairly strong as it leaves them with likely a maximum of 5 non-token creatures they can have in play, Putrid and 4 Narcos, resulting in far less Zombie tokens, Swords/Bolt/Fanatic cuts down further on the number of non-token guys they can have in play).

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Crypt is so much stronger and requires them to dramatically alter their structure of plays, while Leyline is the strongest (supposing you land it on turn 0) in that their plays are dominated by the logistical nightmare of finding an answer to it and then beating you in a short timeframe.

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This is wrong. Again, they don't have reactive answers to Extirpate, like they do for Leyline and Crypt (Chain, Needle, Ray of Revelation). If their game plan is to simply slow roll until they can Therapy you naming Extirpate, then chances are Extirpate has bought enough time for you to win anyways (you found other cards you can play in the meantime such as Deed). Leyline is poor because you have to mulligan to it. Again, if my hand has Swords, Force, EE/Deed and a Brainstorm or two, I'd much rather have Extirpate in my deck against Ichorid than Leyline. Leyline is just bad.


Nantuko Shady: "Sweet, Leyline is in my opening 6, I keep" (as he plays Nimble Mongoose)
kirdape3: "Is Force of Will and another Blue card in your opening 6?" (as he plays LED and then Chain of Vapor)
Shady: "... No"
kirdape3: "You Lose."


The problem with Crypt is that they're bringing in Needle and/or Chain. If you sit on it, they can play Needle and stop it anyways. If sit on it, they can accidently "Oops I win" you anyways. If you sit on it, they can Therapy naming it it just like they would against Extirpate (with the added benefit of you not being able to respond to Therapy with it). If you don't sit on it, they can sit around until the draw Needle/Chain of Vapor and play them, then proceed to combo you.

In order to win match-ups you need a larger number of relevant cards then your opponents. Having 8 hate cards that you mulligan to is a sure fire way of losing since Ichorid's board deals with the hate the cards fairly effectively (aside from Extirpate, if you mull to Extirpate you allow them the opportunity to slow roll you by not having other obstacles you're putting in their way such as Goyf, Mogg Fanatic, EE/Deed, or Swordsing a guy in the upkeep/draw).

Extirpate doesn't require you to mulligan to it in order for it to be good, allowing the rest of the cards in your deck to do their job.

I have yet to lose a game to Ichorid where I've resolved Extirpate. I can't say the same about Tormod's Crypt (and I've seen the Leyline bounced far too often to realize I'm not running that card). Granted Parcher and Anwar are likely to be stronger Ichorid players then the players I've played against, but I'll still take the card that I've had the best experience with thus far.

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Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten

But who is to say that the Thresh would have drawn those cards anyone? Maybe he would have only drawn 1 StP in that match anyway.

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We're speaking of Threshold? The deck that is glued together by the most efficient low cost library manipulation?
Its quite nice to rip the only removal of a deck and see if your opponent can counter your threats this turn.

Extirpate is a situational card and your deck has to be build to abuse it to some degree. Same holds true for many other cards and they aren't crappy at all. Putting Life from the Loam for example in Goyf Sligh would be a bad idea but it doesn't make the card bad. The list is simply not tuned to abuse it.

I run Extirpate in my sideboard of RGBSA, and I'm pretty sure it's the right card. In the Massachusetts metagame, you can expect Dreadstill and Ichorid to be present in the field. Extirpate isn't stellar against either of those decks, but it is versatile and able to perform decently enough against both of them.

Phyrexian Dreadnought is rather hard to deal with. Ripping one out early with discard and Extirpating it saves you from having to scramble to deal with it later. Big Game Hunter is hard to recycle, and most artifact removal critters are too slow.
Target Bridges against Ichorid, and that will hopefully stall enough to drop Plagues on Horror and Illusion.

Especially with the sideboard that's kinda tight due to Burning Wish targets, Extirpate offers a general answer to these two prevalent decks.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

In a 49 championship here in Brazil, a guy won with this deck:


(19)
4 ohran viper
4 River Boa
4 goyf
3 baloth
3 shriekmaw
1 geneses
(18)
4 smother
4 Diabolic edit
4 extirpate
3 SDT
3 Pernicious Act
(23)
4 Windswept Heath
2 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
6 swamp
8 forest
1 bayou
side:
4 krosan grip
4 CotV
3 Engineered Plague
2 needle
2 tormods

FOUR MD extirpates. and 0 Discard.
Against ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh, he would get hit by STP an FoW only once, destroyed some combos. Agains MonoU, removed the Shackles... Agais goblins, Just one Warchief, Revolucionary Leader or Piledriver. In a game, he used on 2 different fetch lands, screweing the opponents manabase.
His only complains were about the 1 Bayou, wich he is dutting out, because aways were destroyed by wastelands.

Though I would put some discard main, less Crature kill, and a Volrath's Stronghold, he won the championship, so i really don't know what to think.

Sry about the bad english.
Cya

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I think this is a good example of my point I am making. Sometimes extirpate can be good and you can get luckey with it and win some games, sometimes enough games in a row to win a tournament. But I think more often than not it will lose you games, and those games it's harder to notice that it was the extirpate that lost it for you. If you take into account all the times it was good and all the times it was bad, I think you will see the bad outnumbering the good. Don't just focus on one incident to judge this card.

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Originally Posted by freakish777

I'm unsure if you can Extirpate Ichorid in response to them removing a black dude

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No you cannot, if they remove a black dude, they are getting the creature.

Extirpate is sometimes good to deny someone strategic advantage going long. For instance, it was really insane when you got to pick off someone's Mystical Teachings with it. Those situations are relatively rare in Legacy, and I can't actually think of any reasonably common scenarios for it.

It's good as a situational one of in the sideboard of certain Storm Combo decks, but I usually don't run it in other decks.

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I've got a slight headache now, so I'll put down my pro-Extirpate reasons ex novo later, when I won't step all over myself in writing a long post. Meanwhile, I'll copy/paste a few posts I made in the past:

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Extirpate is powerful enough to singlehandedly win you the mid-to-long game against control, midrange, and engine decks. That is, in itself, pretty amazing, and I'm a big fan of the card.

However, it means you have to care about the mid-to-long game in order to want Extirpate. Control and midrange decks, IMO, should almost always play 3 in the sideboard if able. Aggro and combo probably have no need of it at all. Aggro-control? It depends on how fast they kill; Fish or Funkbrew definitely want it, but something like GAGOMY is too fast to feel its power, despite playing 8 discard spells. More discard or LD would probably win more games.

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This quote was from an Extirpate thread from almost exactly one year ago, which you may want to check out.

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I often run Extirpate as my GY hate in black decks. The advantage over Crypt and Leyline is that it doubles as control and combo/control hate.

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Extirpate reads "Deny your opponent access to a chosen card". It may conceivably be the least tempo-oriented card you can imagine*.

Extirpate deals with inevitability. It means one less trump card to deal with - Life from the Loam, Mishra's Factory, Back to Basics, you name it. In T2 U/B Teachings Control mirror, one of the main reasons for maindecking an Extirpate was to hit the Triskelavus/Ruins combo... a combination that was an absolute tempo sink, yet provided a large, recurring threat that single-handedly won the matchup.

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Extirpate: I'm the biggest fan of this card on the Source, and even I would basically never maindeck it. The card is good in three instances: as an answer to graveyard combo; when you're trying to win a game of attrition (by taking away an opponent's long-term trump engine, like Ringleader or Loam); and when you cut an opponent off a splash colour entirely.
Now, if the first situation is so common that you want to maindeck Extirpate, I suggest you maindeck Yixlid Jailer instead, which at least beats for two. The second one clearly doesn't apply to this deck, which just wants to beat face against a opponent whose hand has been heavily disrupted. The third only applies against a few decks (Threshold, 3/4C Landstill) and only if they drop only one land of the critical colour and if you destroy it and Extirpate it before they can drop/fetch another one. Oh, and
if they don't play a basic Forest (Thresh) or a Scrubland (Landstill). So yeah, pretty low odds overall. Wouldn't it just be better to devote those (now three) slots to more disruption and threats?

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You use Extirpate specifically against cards that have no replacements. If you Extirpate Tarmogoyf, that's good, but you can still lose to their other creatures. But if you Extirpate Back to Basics, your mana base is forever safe vs. MUC. If you Extirpate Life from the Loam, and the opponent doesn't run Burning Wish, his deck turns to a bunch of utility lands that would otherwise have never made the cut. If you Extirpate

That's why Extirpate is important for the long game. You will no longer have to plan at all times for CardThatTrumpsMyEntirePlan. They'll have to fight you with their lesser threats.

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Extirpate is probably the most misused card in Magic. Although it's pretty horribly outclassed in terms of graveyard hate by cards like Tormod's Crypt, it brings so many things to the table that Tormod's Crypt could never do. I can't believe that people ignore that in their analysis of Extirpate.


Beyond the obvious Wasteland + Extirpate, Thoughtseize + Extirpate, etc. to give immediate board advantage (or the even cooler Thoughtseize + Wasteland + Extirpate), Extirpate has real long term effects on the game.

Deep6er brought up the situation earlier where Aggroloam (presumably) casts Loam into 3 land in the graveyard. Then the Extirpate player Extirpates Loam to end up 1 card down to his opponent's +2.

I'll point out that although the trade sucks ass, it puts Landstill in quite a strong position given the circumstances.

Aggroloam is MUCH weaker without Life from the Loam, obviously, especially against control where they rely on the long term uncounterability of LftL. At the very least, the landstill player reduced the bad trade for every Loam the AL player happened to have in hand, and he has pseudo card advantage on greatly weakening the go-to Devastating Dreams bomb (which is no longer like a 4:1 for AL) and the go-to Seismic Assault finisher. This is the best you could hope for.

Secondly, Deep6er mentioned that a lot of graveyard hate is better. Other than Leyline of the Void, I can't think of anything (and Loam can often deal with Leyline game 2) that would be remotely better. Crypt leaves them either with Loam in the yard or with 3 land in hand (strictly a worse trade than Extirpate). The worst case scenario is if you Crypt the loam but they had a second one in hand, effectively doing less than nothing with your card. Coffin Purge is similar, you knife the Loam and maybe a second Loam later.

If Aggroloam has 3 land in yard and they go for the Loam, you're in pretty bad shape no matter what you do, basically. It's a really unfair example.


Some advantages of Extirpate that nobody has mentioned (at least in this thread):

1) You see the entire contents of your opponent's hand. Even if you don't win the lottery or something and Extirpate Force of Will and they happened to have one in hand, you gain precise knowledge of what your opponent is holding and what his options are. Obviously you don't want to waste time with Peek or Telepathy, and it's really hard to quantify this advantage. You'll know exactly if your opponent is holding Goyfs back to rush after the Deed. You'll know exactly your opponent's combo options, etc. This doesn't affect the game state, but this can often save you a card later in the game. I'd say at least a third of the games, knowing your opponent's hand saves you a card or more (and that's not to mention Cabal Therapy).

2) You see the entire contents of your opponent's deck. This comes up less often because many people are running cookie-cutter crap, but sometimes you see a card you weren't expecting and now you can prepare for it. Sometimes you see that they're completely out of win cons or that they boarded in countertop. I dunno. Legacy is the format with the largest viable card pool (I'm arguing that the power level in Vintage pushes a lot of 3-5 CC tech cards out of the card pool, but even if Legacy is #2 my point is still valid). I'm not exactly the most pedantic Legacy player, but when I browse tournament decklists, I'm surprised every time I'm NOT surprised at an interesting card choice.

And by interesting card choice, I don't just mean like a random 1x Bloodstained Mire in a UBw landstill. I mean like an Empty the Warrens in a Solidarity. Random stuff that wins games not because it's the best card but because your opponent is not prepared for it.

Almost every combo deck transforms either into or out of or parallel to or adjacent to Stiflenought or Countertop or Tarmonought or Countergoyf or whatever else. Why do they spend 10 sideboard slots setting up an inferior Countertop/Goyf combination out of their optimized Stiflenought? Because they're counting on their opponent not expecting what's coming and making poor decisions.

3) Another often-overlooked aspect of Extirpate is that it forces your opponent to shuffle. There is no Vampiric Tutor in Legacy, but still Sensei's Divining Top, Brainstorm (if the player passes priority at upkeep with a fetchland out, he probably likes his topdeck), etc. This is even harder to quantify, but if you can read your opponent at all while he's Topping, you could knife a potentially painful topdeck. Or it's a hard counter to Mystical Tutor.

Anyway, this brings me to my last point.
4) In tournament play, time is really important. Extirpate can take anywhere from 15 seconds to 6 minutes off of the clock (counting the shuffle). Not that this situation comes up terribly often, but you can really ramp up the time pressure on your opponent if he needs to win or maybe you can pull a safe win or a draw out of a losing situation.

For this reason, I'll try to board extirpate against low win-con decks. Extirpate naming Force of Will, look through their deck to make sure they didn't board anything else in, and later extirpate the win con.




Ok, so now that's out of the way: Is all of that actually worth B and a card?



Let's recap the possible situations where it's at least as good as a single card, if not better:

1) Your opponent happens (or you searched him or you read him) to have the card that you're Extirpating in hand.

2) You're facing Ichorid. Or reanimator, I guess.

3) You don't know the contents of your opponent's hand and that knowledge causes you to play better.

4) Your opponent is recurring Life from the Loam and that would win him the game. Extirpate prevents you from losing and doesn't die to your opponent having a cycler in hand.

5) Your opponent only has 1 type of win condition. *cough* Landstill *cough*

6) You're stalling for time. Usually against Landstill if you won game 1 you can just afk until time if you extirpate the Factories.

7) You're not sure what your opponent sideboarded in game 2, and that knowledge causes you to play differently.



So... is it worth it to have in your sideboard? Probably not, unless you have cards like Wasteland, Sinkhole, Duress, Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, etc. And not to brag or pretend that Extirpate is a skill card (generally there's only one target), if you time it properly and take full advantage of it, you can reap the rewards.

I generally try to avoid using it, though.

Extirpate can be a killer from the sideboard in the right matchups. Against Landstill you can basically win off of the card by Extirpating their wincons, with no possible response from them.

It's a very situational card though and it's not that good in most matchups, only in the matchups where the opponent has a lot of control and few ways to win.

@Forbiddian - Landstill generally has 3 ways to win, Mishra's Factories, Eternal Dragon (probably 80% of the Landstill decks) and Decree of Justice (about the same.)

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Originally Posted by Deep6er

I approve of the amount of David Gearhart in this thread. It gladdens me.

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Will you guys please--for the love of whatever you hold dear--stop this kind of self-aggrandizing inside joke? The rest of us couldn't care less about your e-penises, so please stop waving them about.


As for the question at hand, I'd like to applaud Forbiddian's last post: very well said. I have very little to add, save that, as with most cards, "how good" Extirpate is depends entirely on what you're relying on it to do. If you want to use it as blanket graveyard hate/removal, then, as has been pointed out countless times, it's not all that good. If, however (as Forbiddian pointed out), you're using it to deny your opponent resources in a game of attrition, then it's a truly excellent card. That means that when you sling Extirpate into your deck, you have to consider the decks that you want to use it against, as well as your own ability to capitalize on it. That last bit, obviously, is the real key to the problem.

In Cunning-Landstill, Extirpate is good against any Standstill mirror like Dreadstill and Landstill, Thrash, LtfL decks, and Ichorid.

In the Landstill mirror, I'd prefer my Turn 2 being a Wasteland on Factory followed up with an Extirpate on Factory. Because of this, you can start chaining card advantage through Standstills and such while your opponent is at a clear disadvantage in terms of card advantage. Also, Extirpating opposing Wastelands and DoJs also gives you an edge depending on the state.

Against Dreadstill, I never board out Standstills because I know for sure that having Extirpates gives me the edge against them. As long as I maintain card advantage against the deck, I can never lose... in fact, my track record against Dreadstill is like undefeated. Also, Extirpating Stifles and FoWs is boss....

Against Thrash, I'd usually go for the first threat in the yard or Wasteland. Stifles are easy to play around and arent very much of a threat if you get rid of Wastelands.

LftL and Ichorid was covered already...

Clarification of the first statement: By mulliganing for Extirpate, your hand size is now effectively smaller because Extirpate is rarely card equity. So, supposing you mulligan to a five card hand with Extirpate, you're going to have to make do with just the four cards. So, those four cards had better fucking deal with whatever Extirpate didn't hit.

@Freakish: Sure, if they end up slowing down because they have to deal with Extirpate, that's good for you. However, Leyline and Crypt force the same issue. They have to slow down until they find an answer to it. However, Extirpate is guaranteed to only hit ONE relevant target. That means in game three (when they know that Extirpate is the only graveyard hate you have), they can just go as fast as possible, because getting Bridges/Narcomoebas/Ichorids will overwhelm your Extirpate(s). Thus, weakening the card.

It's true that Ichorid can just mulligan for answers to Leyline/Crypt. But, more importantly, they DON'T have to mulligan for answers to Extirpate. They'll either run into a Therapy before they hit a target, or you'll blow one and they'll continue to draw five or six cards a turn.

With Leyline/Crypt, it's much harder because they don't have the ability to "draw" as many cards as they can normally.

Also, I think for the example that you used, Shady should have definitely been playing Crypt. Leyline is difficult to replay for decks that don't have access to Dark Ritual, and I generally advise that decks that can't quickly replay Leyline should be playing Crypt because dealing with Pithing Needle is generally easier than dealing with 2BB.

I'm glad that you haven't lost to Ichorid with Extirpate yet. I've lost enough for both of us. Coming close to forty or so times. Out of about sixty games. Extirpate is not enough. Experience tells me this.

@Jaynel: Please tell me you're not serious. Wickerbough Elder, Indrik Stomphowler, Tin Street Hooligan, and Big Game Hunter are LUDICROUSLY insane against Dreadnought. The fact that those cards are GUARANTEED card advantage is a big goddamn deal. Extirpating those cards is so insanely awful that I can't even begin to describe it. Playing a better card would just be significantly better.

@Volt: Removing Explosives when they have Ruins is decent, but Crypting them would also stop any other cards they have that would work well with Ruins. Or, stopping the Ruins is a good way of dealing with it as well. Which are generally better than Extirpate.

@Forbiddian: Extirpate cannot create board advantage. It's functionally impossible. Please clarify what you were trying to say. I'm not nitpicking, I'm generally confused.

1) I would argue that control is weaker being down a card. Who's to say that the list doesn't have Burning Wish? Plus, you need to make sure that you have enough cards in hand to deal with their disruption and their large creatures. Dumping cards does not help that.

2) If you Crypt after a Loam, it's the exact same trade as Extirpating it. If they try to play around Crypt, the burden is on them. If you Crypt before a Loam, you actually make card parity but you're up on the mana investment. Plus, if you Crypt the Loam, they don't have any other lands in the graveyard so they don't have any other cards to get back even if they have a second loam.

3) Saying that looking at their hand is worth a card is vague and indeterminate bullshit. Under no circumstances is it a good idea to throw out a card for no other effect than to look at your opponents hand on the hopes that it will somehow magically save a card later.

4) Looking at your opponent's deck does not help you beat it. Why don't you run Extract? Hell, not only do you get to look at their deck (and by extension, infer what's in their hand), but you get to remove a card! You know why you don't? Because it's awful. Plus, I don't know where you're getting the idea that every combo decks has a transformational sideboard. TES sure as fuck doesn't. Most Belcher lists don't. Solidarity sure as fuck doesn't. Neither does SI/Fetchland Tendrils. Where are these transformational sideboard lists?

5) Making your opponent shuffle is of negligible value. If it's as valuable as you think, then why not tote the benefits of something like Soldier of Fortune? In some cases, it's actually beneficial to your opponent because you gave them a free shuffle effect. Considering the (almost, or at least it fucking feel like) omnipresence of Sensei's Divining Top, I could actually say this is a weakness.

6) The argument of time is terrible. Sure, it's a consideration, but what if you're losing? Then, you need more time. Plus, since there are arguments that it only affects the long game, doesn't that actually make it worse? If it's strength lies in inevitability, then you need to make sure that you don't draw a game you were going to win.

@Fool: How did you deal with the win conditions in the first place? Plus, instead of playing a card that you're guaranteed to have to sit on before you get any kind of use out of it, why not play a good card? You know, one that won't suck if you're losing.

@Go... whatever: No. No. It's cool. Also, I addressed all of Forbiddian's points, which include yours.

@Citrus: You say that they are at a clear disadvantage. But Wastelands on your Factories plus a Decree (which you've already said they have) means that you're also in trouble. Additionally, if they have Dragon, every Extirpate you draw gets distinctly worse. I would love for my opponent (assuming I'm playing a Landstill list that has Dragon/Factory/Decree like you said) for my opponent to assume that. Not only is he down two cards (Standstill and Extirpate), but he's also playing cards to stop my powerful strategies that he just shut off himself (by playing Standstill). That seems amazing for me.

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Originally Posted by Deep6er

@Forbiddian: Extirpate cannot create board advantage. It's functionally impossible. Please clarify what you were trying to say. I'm not nitpicking, I'm generally confused.

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What if your opponent has a Tarmogoyf in play, you have a Night of Souls' Betrayal in play, and there's a single card in your opponent's graveyard and none in yours?

/Pretending Extirpate is Good

The Extirpate would still go to the graveyard keeping it a 0/1. Even pretending, there's no way.

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Originally Posted by Deep6er

The Extirpate would still go to the graveyard keeping it a 0/1. Even pretending, there's no way.

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Damn, you're right. So there's a Mirror Gallery and two Night of Souls' Betrayals. And there's a single card with two types in your opponent's graveyard and none in yours.

Makes you realize how absurd Extirpate is, huh?

This thread is like a group of Muslims trying to convert a group of Christians and vice versa. Mac and PC. Mac and BK.

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@quicksilver:

Referring to your thoughts on extirpate seeing as I bet allot of the time you faced it, it was me.(KyleH) It didn’t do a very good job but honestly I still think in a non-blue control deck with absolutely no tempo, extirpate is the only card that gives me hope. I have beaten you once or twice with it. It does happen if ever so rare against Survival.

@freakish777:

Right on the money. Extirpate is there for the control mirror. If you’re playing control and you look at all your bad match-ups most of them involve recurring things and Extirpate is the best sideboard vs. this. It wins Control Mirrors, stops recurring Wasteland, Stops Loam, low threat count threshold builds and is good vs. Ichorid (combined with other hate)

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Is there any argument that Extirpate should not be played in the following decks sideboards?

• Landstill
• The Rock (Not an Aggro Build)

And please do not say anything if you have not actually played these decks and tested extirpate in them. Otherwise you are bias because your feelings towards the card are from playing it wrong and in the wrong deck.

Yeah, I play slowroll decks, and I can name about a hundred cards I'm more terrified of than Extirpate. Even in a slow-roll scenario, it isn't "powerful enough to singlehandedly win you the mid-to-long game", and if you think it is, you're either incompetent or you test against incompetents.

If you want to beat Control, play mass LD, or something like Haunting Echoes, which is Extirpate with Replicate. If you want to beat graveyard decks, play Crypt. These strategies are counterable, but they do something when they resolve. Extirpate can't make the same promise.

How about this? Go down to this thread (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7680) and look up the deck David Gearhart was playing.

Before I settled on Leyline, I was testing Extirpate. Everyone here (by "here" I mean the people I tested the deck ((in Virginia)) against) can tell you that I was playing Extirpate.

You know why I dropped it? Because it's awful. It wasn't having a high impact in any match up, and it was entirely too weak. The card disadvantage was beating the piss out of me in the Landstill mirror, and the fact that it could never affect the board made it an awful draw when I was losing or when I was trying to stabilize. That's not what you should be looking for in a sideboard card.