Have you tried Fabricate in the Trinket Mage slot? They cast the same but Fabricate can get you Painter along with your other artifacts. You do lose the body of the Mage but being able to get everything is a plus. I play it when I play Epic Painter.
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Have you tried Fabricate in the Trinket Mage slot? They cast the same but Fabricate can get you Painter along with your other artifacts. You do lose the body of the Mage but being able to get everything is a plus. I play it when I play Epic Painter.
@Brushwagg:
A fabricate or multiple fabricates? I've considered putting 1 in for a painter's servant. However, the more I play with it, the more it just works by blocking a weeny, being an annoying attacker, sitting at the all important 2 slot for counterbalance and being another must answer critter. Fabricate also grabs a Vedalken Shackles.
Have you given up on Lim Dul's Vault as well?
If we are going to rock Fabricate is there another really awesome artifact we may want to play as a 1 of?
A quick and dirty tournament report titled: "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb". As many of you would surmise I am a massive fan of the film: "Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb" but more on that later.
[Philosophical Sidebar]NLPainter (which the mods have let me have my own thread for, instead of putting into any numerous threads) came out of my stubbon beligerence as a control player, having the need to deal with every single random/non-random deck in the format and going nuts trying to do it. I mean, you can only play so many Vindicates in a deck, deed sucks vs. AdNT, and I don't really want to force of will a Kird Ape... I used to win my local tournament of ~20-40 people every week! Now I was lucky to pull out 1 win a month. I needed a solution...(I'm not sure if this is it, because they do generally bring hate for the last deck that won the tournament the last week)
When I first threw the cards to together for NLPainter it was with a fatalistic mindset that I accepted people are going to play cards and do things I can't stop. Furthermore, they were going to have strategies that I may not have prepared for. Also in my head was the famous line by Flores that I'm going to horribly paraphrase "There Are no incorrect threats, just incorrect answers". In much the same manner as the "key to winning a nuclear war"...striking first, I decided that I'm just going to play the cards that win first. The difference though is unlike dedicated combo I didn't go "all in" on any one strategy. I just decided to have more and bigger "bombs" than just about anything out there.
[/Philosophical Sidebar]
OK, here's the quick report
Deck List:
// Lands
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [A] Underground Sea
5 [5E] Island (3)
// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
// Spells
3 [TE] Grindstone
2 [LRW] Ponder
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [CS] Counterbalance
1 [10E] Pithing Needle
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Trygon Predator
SB: 4 [4E] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [FNM] Duress
SB: 2 [FNM] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
R1 vs. Mike with MBC
G1: I'm on the play, he lands first turn arena, I land second turn Confidant followed by third turn Tarmogoyf. He rips my hand apart and manages to kill my confidant, but my Tarmogoyf rips him apart.
G2: He's on the play: He tries for a first turn Hippie which I force. I play dudes which he slaughters as he builds up mana. Before things get out of hand painter/grindstone end the game.
1-0, 2-0
R2 vs. Joe Joe with Fires
G1: He plays big dudes quickly as I finally get a Tarmogoyf down to clog the ground up with low life. Counterbalance/Top is also down to stop burn but Blastoderms and Skizziks are not stoppable with my early CB. I have to chump with a painter and confidant. I play conservatively leave mana open after landing a timely shackles which first jacks his Skizzik, then his birds. I continue to resolve dudes so the ground is completely clogged up, and I win with painter/grind.
G2: Starts out sort of slow for both of us. He tries to play damping matrix while I had Top and Shackles out (WTF!) and I force. The next turn he sticks a blood moon and I'm internally praising God for the creation of the basic island for which I have 2 in play and wind up topping into a third. He winds up playing a 3/1 Kavu with Flash and Haste, which I am able to steal. I land CB in the meantime and he plays no big dudes so I start beating on him with his own creature. He resolves a skizzik without kicks to take me down lower and I finally paitner/grind him out despite his multiple attempts to burn my painter.
2-0, 4-0
R3 vs. Person with Esper
This deck has a bunch of artifact type things, Master of Etherium and Cranial Plating, so think of it as a jank UW affinity.
G1: He plays dudes a few with death touch :(, I play Tarmogoyf...hardly fair I think. I beat him down with goyf until out of the blue painter/grind assembles and we move on to game 2.
G2: He gets stuck on 1 land. I assembly counter/top and grind him out as soon as I could so he didn't have to languish in frustration.
3-0, 6-0
R4: vs. Alex with LEDless Dredge
G1: A very long affair. He plays VERY slow. So I play very slow after the first 5 turns as I had plenty of guys and pulled an EE with a trinket mage to destroy his first big offensive, along with a painter, a DC, and a Tarmogoyf to not only hold down the fort but go in the yard to break bridges. Counterbalance/Top came down to ensure that all he was able to do was dredge. After ~40 minutes (I know this is pathetic considering I should have lost quickly) I find 1 of my damn grindstones and help him put the rest of his deck in the Graveyard...
G2: He mulls to 5, and I mull to six. I have grave hate in this time so a quick victory is nigh impossible...TIE
4-0, 7-0-1
R5: vs. Derek with Mono-W Martyr Control (extended budget deck?) w/scrying sheets and some Quinn cards...
Derek is a good friend of mine and the best magic player I have ever known. He wins with bad decks and wins even more with good decks. I offer the draw and he accepts, even though my painter combo obviously beats MWC I never imagined how hard it would be...
We decide to play for the first place prize, but draw officially.
G1: He nukes my board millions of times. I play painter grind in 1 turn, and then find my pithing needle to stop his Mistveil Plains (WTF!!!) the turn before his Eternal Dragon would kill me.
G2: I side out my shackles and 1 Goyf for Grave hate. Mistveil planes consternates me, the Tarmogoyf beat down fails, painters are swordsed, and my board gets wiped many times...I lose. Kataki War's Wage was also thrown in there for good measure against me.
G3: I side out my FoW's for BEB's, ready for the EPIC "Painter Red Dude" play. With lots of back and forth and controlling his graveyard "Painter Red Dude" came down. With that I destroyed, an Eternal Dragon and Mistveil Plains which where both RFG'ed. I then spent the next half an hour trying to find a grindstone to win the game.
5-0, 9-1-1
Props: "Painter Red Dude" the audible that is actually fucking awesome! Who needs Force of Will anyway!
Derek most fun and best opponent always, whether I win or lose.
Slops: My metagame for having antagonistic and whiney scrubs who don't want to pay for better prize support.
If I were to play this tomorrow (and I would, without reservation) I would go:
-1 Trinket Mage +1 Fabricate
-1 Pithing Needle +1 Ponder
You have to metagame the board. The only cards that I feel are set in stone are: 2 BEBS, 2 Grips, and 2 Tormods. The rest of the board is up to you.
I won another tournament tonight 4-0. I only dropped 1 game to merfolk. Report to follow.
I pretty much cut all the Trinket Mages in Epic Painter. I think Fabricate is better in this version since it can get you every artifact you run.Quote:
A fabricate or multiple fabricates?
@Vault: I've never not liked having it. It finds what you need.
Good to see you having some sucess.
What if someone first turn chalice's, or bloodmoon/chokes you? How does this deck deal with that.. lose? Also.. lotta mana correction, most players I play are like auto 4x wastelands. My friend runs a pretty effective mono-white painter, is 100% nonbasics too risky against land hate?
I hate the card, but isn't this deck just screaming for Enlightened Tutor somewhere in here? Grabs Top, Counterbalance, EE, Painter, Grindstone, etc.
Okay, first off, Nobody runs a turn one Choke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystical_Jackass
Secondly, Force of Will stops everything listed there. As does Grip and Trygon out of the board.
Thirdly, if lucky, the combo just goes off under Blood Moon like nothing happened. If not, Blue Elemental Blast gives you better fighting shots also.
Fourthly, Trinket Mage/Engineered Explosives handles Chalice of the Void.
Not that I have played the deck, but is 4 seinsei's top really necessary in a deck that runs trinket mage and plenty of card advantage? Seems like at least 1 could be something more beneficial to the deck
I think the enlightened tutors a good idea too, seems to fit well with all the brainstorms too. Prolly could cut down to like 2 sensei's then. It sucks mega when I look at the top 3 and bump into another sensei's rofl! Its like craaap :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Yeah, point taken, I was checking out the Elephant Stompy deck so it was sorta fresh in my mind ^.^ Your right though, most prolly wouldn't pull it off till 2 or 3. I know Dragon Stompy's a lil more popular, which rocks bloodmoon.Quote:
Okay, first off, Nobody runs a turn one Choke
maybe. If you have a force of will in your hand, and assuming you have another blue card. I see what you're saying, and hydroblast err.. blue elemental or w/e would help, didn't see that >.>Quote:
Secondly, Force of Will stops everything listed there. As does Grip and Trygon out of the board
It looks like a pretty solid deck, just grabbing my stick and poking it for weaknesses for the heck of it lol. So what is this deck weak against then?
Enlightened Tutor is very good, especially if you run Dreadnought/Stifle.
I would run 3 Top - it's amazing, but awful in multiples, and Trinket Mage can get it.
I 5-0'ed another local tournament. I didn't drop a game. I'll post a list and a brief report. Ladies and gentlemen...this deck is "For Real".
Briefly: Yes you want 4 tops, CB top in a deck with a real curve is AMAZING. Get it fast. If you have 2 tops, use a fetch and cycle it away.
Enlightened tutor is cool but having 5 basics IMO is even cooler. Which brings me to the fact of why are people worried about non basic hate. I slaughtered MUC with BtB tonight, what's the problem...? 5 islands are tech.
Lastly, Friday night was the first time I did anything magic related all week, I'm getting ready to move and have not been able to devote the time to provide my latest updates.
I played this deck today in my local tourney and got second going 3-1 out of like, 12 people. Two games against goblins and Meathooks I wished I had the Pithing Needle instead of the third ponder, but they still did me well. The goblin matchup for this deck was way too easy it's not even funny, and he also had this weird maindeck goblin that destroyed artifacts, but it wasn't that hard to get around. I got a little frustrated with one land hands that would have all of top, grindstone, bob, ponder, and brainstorm and not getting a second or third land until turn 4 or 5, which lost me the round against Meethooks. I also almost never found my self playing Tarmogoyf and really using it to do anything than just sit there, maybe his spot could be removed to better help finding/protecting the combo? Just some thoughts :)
@zerostyle: My newest list, which I still haven't posted (I hope to do so tonight) has a MD pithing needle.
I'm not 100% sure what version you are playing because with 4 BS, 4 Tops, and 2/3 ponders and 21/22 land this deck digs out of 1 land hand scenarios remarkably well. There are a few situations besides the standard ones that you should dump a 1 land hand.
WRT Tarmogoyf: He plays a lot of roles and especially vs. slivers and goblins him just sitting there should buy you a few turns in which you can win. He is obviously a ridiculous beater and blocks other Tarmogoyfs. In reality he is just another must deal with spell. I mostly just use him as removal that can attack.
I was playing your list with the third ponder instead of the MD Pithing Needle, and I too thought I would be able to get a second land but it just didn't happen some times.
What about a MUC version of this deck???
// Lands
2 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
12 [LRW] Island (3)
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
1 [TO] Llawan, Cephalid Empress
// Spells
1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [TE] Grindstone
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [NE] Daze
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
1 [MR] Fabricate
2 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
4 [5E] Hydroblast
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 3 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 3 [TE] Chill
I think the deck looks really good. I'll have some ppl in my group try it out and let you know.
I'm hesitant to make this suggestion because it sounds as if you're are waxing people with this deck and you might not want to mess with a good thing. However, the first thought that came to my mind was cutting black for white in the deck.
Black gets you confidant which is awesome as well duress in the board. White, however would give you the access to StP that you talked about on the first page of the article. That would help some of the more difficult aggro match ups like Goblins or Ichorid. Plus, you've commented that Confidant does push you're life total at times. Furthermore, StP would allow you to break opposing Goyf stand offs and allows you to remove Confidant a lot easier without having to worry about EE going off at the right moment.
Additionally, being able to run enlightened tutor would mean you could run less Tops and Grindstones etc. While I realize it goes on the top of the deck, it does allow you turn the tutor into whatever card you need out of the deck:
Counterbalance
Shackles
Top
Grindstone
Painter
EE
Needle
(Post Board)
Relic
Tomb
Just a suggestion or a thought if you got board and wanted to try the change up. As an under view, I'm essentially suggesting you swap the card advantage for card quality in the deck.
@GoldenCid: I have a few problems with your list.
1. You only have 1 way of finding Painter and that is the 1 Fabricate and your deck wants Painter more then Grindstone. I'd cut down the Trinket Mages or all of them for some more Fabricates.
2. Engineered Explosives: You can set it for 1. What do you plan on blowing up at 1? If you want to keep it in I'd look at putting 2x off color basics in there.
3. Daze: Yes it's good in Threshold, not so much in Painter or MUC. I'd look into Forcespike or something there.
[QUOTE=Brushwagg;339796]@GoldenCid: I have a few problems with your list.
The management of the deck makes relatively easy to hit a painter relatively in the early game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brushwagg
Why not. Make brainstorm, return island + daze is owesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brushwagg
Needle to whatever. Chalice @ 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brushwagg
Thiking about the deck i thought on making several changes:
-1 CB, -1 Aether spellbomb, -1 Fabricate + 3 ponder
and in the mana base:
-3 Island +1 Mutavault +2 Seat of the synod.
Hi,
I took this deck to Bazaar of Moxen #3 and went 6-3-0 with it, because I haven't tested the deck before so I haven't really known when to mulligan and when to keep an hand, so I didn't mulligan too often :P. I was really impressed by the deck, especially the 1-of Fabricate instead of the third Mage was awesome. Here are the decks I played against:
1. Team America 2-1 (in the third game Painter on black > Snuff Out)
2. Rg Goblins 2-0
3. Ugr Fish 2-0
4. Angel Stax 1-2 (in the third game he had an O-Ring on my Grindstone. I had an Confidant and an Painter out. End of his turn I had to fetch twice, going on 1 life to grip his O-Ring and get mit Stone back. In my Upkeep the Confidant kills me...)
5. Ad Nauseam Tendrils 2-0
6. Eva Green 1-2 (in the third game he started with Hymn, picking a land and Confidant. Then he reanimated my Confidant)
7. Mono R Goblins 2-0
8. Goyf Sligh /w Wastelands 2-1 (in the first game he crushed me. After I boardet I said to him: "Well, now I have to be faster than you" and comboed him third turn game 2 and fifth turn game 3)
9. 4c Control 1-2
-> 6-3-0
If I'm looking back now, I know that I have to mulligan more often and I would have won more games. But overall I'm really satisfied :).
Seems like this deck is putting up some numbers, I guess it's time to test it myself. You have kind of an odd meta: MBC, Epser?, Fish people still play that?, Matyr control?