[Deck] UGB River Rock (formerly Intuition-Thresh)

OK, so I have a few things to add, then:

1.) I haven't noticed any significant losses from going to 4 BS and 2 Ponder, so I guess the change is worth making. It's actually a more important change for those of us trying to work GSZ into the deck, since I think the Archangel has to be relegated to the SB for it to fit (that, or lose the Finks--but Kitchen Finks is so bloody handy, and I'm already torn about going below two copies).

2.) Having Spell Pierce in the sideboard is a decent way of shoring up the combo matchup and gives us something interesting to sub in for Natural Order. It's also helpful against Jace.

3.) Green Sun's Zenith is still powerful and handy, but I'm not sure entirely how well it's fitting into the deck. I'd appreciate someone else's input and testing on this point, actually. I feel as though I'm trying too hard to make it fit into the deck, when the deck was working perfectly well before its inclusion. Making cuts to accommodate GSZ (just three copies) has been difficult, and I'm lamenting the loss of my second Finks and my MD Archangel, actually. I'm not really seeing any improvements in consistency in return. Perhaps someone else can make it fit the deck better, but I'm not entirely convinced at this point. Perhaps GSZ, Glissa, and EE would be a natural fit for the deck, however, given its previous incarnations. Out of curiosity, I'm going to test a variant that uses those three cards and Executioner's Capsule in place of the existing removal package.

4.) I suspect Fleshbag Marauder is a safer bet than Shriekmaw at the moment, given the prevalence of Emrakul. Emrakul usually crushes this deck, but it's nice to have a small chance. Plus, it's still quite handy. EDIT: Idiot that I am, I forgot that Shriekmaw also hits Emrakul. So never mind that, unless there are lots of other untargetable fatties running around.

So those are my most recent thoughts. Currently, my decklist looks like this:

Lands (18)

3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
1 Wasteland


Creatures (16)

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Shriekmaw or Fleshbag Marauder
1 Progenitus
1 Empyrial Archangel


Spells (28)

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Intuition
3 Daze
3 Natural Order
3 Snuff Out
3 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Unearth
1 Life from the Loam


Sideboard (15)

4 Spell Pierce
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Tormod’s Crypt

So I'm just posting to ask if anyone who was interested in picking the deck up had any new thoughts to share.

Also, an update: I just have a few more weeks of my coursework to go, and then I'll be able to participate in the Legacy scene here (my physical deck is finally complete, save for a single Pulse and a Bayou, but those are easy enough to fudge for now).

I've been testing on and off, and it's pretty clear to me that the GSZ version just lacks some of the adaptability and focus. So I'm sticking to the usual list. Spell Snare (SB) is working fantastically well, by the way.

With New Phyrexia spoiled and on its way, I think there are a few points to consider here:

1.) Mental Misstep is not particularly good against this deck. That's a net benefit.
2.) Is Mental Misstep any good in the deck?

I think that the answer to (2) is affirmative. The question, then, is where to fit it in. My current thinking is that it can definitely replace Spell Pierce in the SB, but it can also perhaps replace Ponder (although the loss of Ponder pains me greatly) and maybe even Archangel in the MD. The fact that its alternate cost is just U means that we don't need to worry too much about life loss from it, fetches, and Snuff Out. On the other hand, the question to be examined is, in the first place, how much immediate net benefit we can gain from it and, in the second place, whether it's even worth running in the long-term, once the format has adapted to its presence.

I suppose only testing can bear out the answers, but I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks. I'd especially like to hear back if anyone's tried testing MM.

The good news is that I think the deck is VERY well placed if the format shifts!

I find the deck to be extremely fun and poweful, and I'm thinking of building it (I'm only missing the 3 Bayous). I would like to ask you if it is possible to build the deck sans the Bayous and still function correctly? I guess I could get them, but I'd rather not have to :tongue:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Treefolk Master

I find the deck to be extremely fun and poweful, and I'm thinking of building it (I'm only missing the 3 Bayous). I would like to ask you if it is possible to build the deck sans the Bayous and still function correctly? I guess I could get them, but I'd rather not have to :tongue:

---

Sorry for the late reply. You can definitely build it without Bayous, but it also impacts your game.Being able to fetch black and green at once is very useful (f you have one bayou or an overgrown tomb, that might be one way to mitigate the loss). To make up for the loss of the Bayous, I think that an extra Tropical Island (if you have it; basic Forest or a Verdant Catacombs otherwise), Forest, and Swamp can probably do the trick. I myself have only one Bayou, which I supplement with an Overgrown Tomb and a Forest. It's far from ideal, but when the deck costs as much as this one does, you do what you can. Losing Bayou basically mostly impacts some of your early options, so trading that off for more consistency should work out overall, IMO.

In other news, there's a tournament nearby(ish) Saturday the 14th, so I'll take the deck there if I can (I might be out of town; hopefully not!). I'm also pretty much sold on -2 Ponder, -1 Archangel (relegated to SB, replaced 1 Spell Pierce with it) for +3 Mental Misstep right now. I just keep getting insane hands with Hierach, access to Tropical Island, Misstep, Force/Daze, etc. I don't like losing Ponder, but the consistency (and overall resiliency) is going through the roof, so...

I missed the big tournament last week, but made it to the weekly tournament today. I piloted this deck to 5/29. Won an NPH booster for my efforts (no entry fee, so yay!).

Round 1: Affinity - I won 2-1. The first game, I had crap all for a hand. I think I cast Noble Hierarch on my fourth turn, and died the next turn. crushed the Affinity deck the next two games (thanks to Deed and Progenitus), which is as it should be.

Round 2: UGR Pyromancer's Ascension combo - I won 2-1. Took me a while to figure out what this deck was and did. I lost the first game with my opponent at 1 life. Proceeded to win the next two thanks to Maelstrom Pulse and Chalice of the Void.

Round 3: The Rock - I lost 2-0. In fact, I won the first game but fucked up: I didn't realize that my Goyf was 5/6 until a turn after I'd attacked, thought I'd be nice and forget about it, and ended up losing after beating him down to 1 life. :( Oh well. G2 was very close: he managed to Thoughtseize me at the end of the game, getting the Natural Order that was about to win it for me. I then made the rather nooblish mistake of double-blocking his KOTR with my Goyfs, and he used KOTR number 2 to fetch and pop a Canopy, thereby killing my Goyfs. It didn't cost me the game (since I proceeded to draw lands), but it was idiotic nonetheless.


So there you have it. Fifth out of twenty-nine, in a meta that primarily seems to be aggro. I'll be attending these tournaments every week, piloting this deck. Unfortunately, as you'll see below, I have a couple of suboptimal cards due to the fact that I don't own them/they've gone missing, but it's close enough to work pretty well. I'm going to try very hard to find the third Pulse, though: that's a big deal (even though Crime/Punishment allowed for a stellar play versus Affinity). Here was the list:

UGB River Rock: Le Valet d'Coeur 26/05/11 - 5/29

Lands (18)

3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Overgrown Tomb (I only have 1 Bayou)
2 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
2 Forest (Lacking a Bayou)
1 Island
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
1 Wasteland


Creatures (15)

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Shriekmaw
1 Progenitus


Spells (29)

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Mental Misstep
3 Intuition
3 Daze
3 Natural Order
3 Snuff Out
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Crime/Punishment (I'm missing 1 Pulse)
1 Unearth
1 Life from the Loam


Sideboard (15)

3 Chalice of the Void
3 Spell Snare (I don't have Pierces)
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Thorn of Amethyst (one of my Chalices is missing. Nooo!)
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Empyrial Archangel


EDIT: Come to think of it, I think I actually tied for fourth. Oh well, no big deal. Let's say fifth.

I really think you'd benefit far more by dropping black for white. Knight of the Reliquary is the best creature for your deck, hands down. Swords to Plowshares is also alot better against a field of aggro than the black removal options.

Also, you should running 2 Lonely Sandbar's to get more mileage out of Loam during the midgame.

Lastly, I'd really like to see a singleton Worm Harvest in here. It's a tutorable win-condition with Intuition that wins games quickly once you get to the midgame. It's a great answer to aggro (makes a bunch of chumps), and after a few turns of swarming with 1/1's, you can go EtW-style alpha strike and just win.

Went to the weekly tournament today--I tied for first out of 32. I went 6-1 (after 3 rounds), but my breakers put me in second place. Still, I won a pack of Fifth Dawn and a pack of NPH (neither of which had anything worthy of note). A few more solid placements, and I'll ask to have the thread moved back to the 'Established' section.

Round 1: Belcher. Of all the storm combo decks, this is the only one that River Rock can beat fairly easily, and I crushed it 2-0. Both times he had to go for the kill with Warrens, and both times I was able to sweep the board with Pulse and ride a Goyf to victory.

Round 2: RUG NO-genitus. This is where I went 2-1. I lost the first game to manascrew: all I played for the first four turns was a single land and a Brainstorm that went nowhere. Game two, we both had good starts, but my deck was easily the stronger of the two and I beat face with two Goyfs. Game three, I had an average start that led to a turn five Progenitus, and he had a fairly slow start that couldn't compete (he did have an Order in hand, but nothing green to sacrifice).

Round 3: Mono-R Welder. Didn't have a clue what this was for a while. I raced Welder with Progenitus G1, and destroyed a Welder and then beat face with Progenitus G2. No trouble here.


I had the following sideboard, but to be honest, I neither ended up using the changes, nor did the changes seem particularly useful overall. I'll probably be going back to the original configuration for next week (potential exception: if I can find a Worm Harvest by then).

3 Chalice of the Void
1 Thorn of Amethyst (still haven't found my fourth Chalice)
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Hydroblast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Damnation
1 Empyrial Archangel




I noticed that there was far less aggro this week; people seem to have shifted to control. I saw a few Landstill lists. It's cool that the meta here is so healthy, and not stagnant. Unfortunately, I missed last week's weekly, and will have to miss a larger tournament this Saturday. :( I waited until today to respond to Hanni because I wanted to have another placement under my belt--plus, that way, it's not just me posting too many times in a row.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanni

I really think you'd benefit far more by dropping black for white. Knight of the Reliquary is the best creature for your deck, hands down. Swords to Plowshares is also alot better against a field of aggro than the black removal options.

---

I disagree for a few reasons. Most importantly, why splash for white when we could be playing NO-Bant instead? Well, I don't disagree that white might be better in a field of aggro--just that I should convert to white, or that it's worth playing UGW but trying to remain distinct from NO-Bant.

Losing black means losing access to these key pieces:

*Volrath's Stronghold
*Shriekmaw
*Unearth
*Snuff Out
*Maelstrom Pulse
*Pernicious Deed

White can replace Snuff Out and Shriekmaw with Swords to Plowshares. No big deal there, although the tempo element that Snuff Out represents is actually quite important. Pulse could be replaced with Oblivion Ring, but Knight of the Reliquary would have to take that slot instead. The loss of that control element is a bit of a downer, but gaining KotR may make up for it. Stronghold would then become Maze of Ith, I guess. Again, the mid/long-game suffers a bit, but not too much. Deed would be replaced with EE, which is fine. Unearth, however, can't be replaced, and that's a big loss: Unearth is an amazing component of the deck, perhaps one of its most important (despite the fact that it's just one copy). It really stands out.

So, on the whole, it seems like going to white is a net loss as far as the deck is concerned: we sacrifice our best and most interesting control pieces, the very pieces that differentiate the deck from other UGX Progenitus decks. This isn't to say that a UGW version is bad--rather, my point is simply that UGW is an entirely different deck, and it's called NO-Bant. I do suspect that UGW would be a little more consistent versus a field of aggro, but it's worth noting that UGB doesn't just cave in to aggro. And I think it's more suited to a variable metagame.

Quote:

---

Also, you should running 2 Lonely Sandbar's to get more mileage out of Loam during the midgame.

---

The only difficulty is that I don't see how I could do this without compromising the manabase. If you've got a suggestion, however, I'm more than happy to try.

Quote:

---

Lastly, I'd really like to see a singleton Worm Harvest in here. It's a tutorable win-condition with Intuition that wins games quickly once you get to the midgame. It's a great answer to aggro (makes a bunch of chumps), and after a few turns of swarming with 1/1's, you can go EtW-style alpha strike and just win.

---

You know, I agree. At the very least, I should have one in my SB, since it would help so much versus Landstill. I don't know if I can fit a copy into the MD though. (Confession: I don't actually own a Worm Harvest, so I'll have to try to acquire one soon.)

Quote:

---

I disagree for a few reasons. Most importantly, why splash for white when we could be playing NO-Bant instead? Well, I don't disagree that white might be better in a field of aggro--just that I should convert to white, or that it's worth playing UGW but trying to remain distinct from NO-Bant.

---

As I've said before, there are many ways to play Bant. Why play NO Bant when you could play CounterTop Bant, for example?

Natural Order is a great win condition, but it's still susceptible to removal (prior to being cast), being countered (or maybe discarded), having the manabase attacked so that you cannot hit 2GG, or simply being raced. This is by no means me saying Natural Order isn't an amazing spell; clearly, tournament results speak for themselves.

However, neither Natural Order nor Counter-Top invalidate Intuition-Loam as a valid approach. I feel as though Bant (UGw) is an upgrade to Jund (GRb), as far as Aggro Loam is concerned. That's essentially what this deck is; Aggro Loam w/ Blue. Or you could call it New Horizons with the Intuition-Loam engine added. Either way, the deck is pretty good.

Quote:

---

Losing black means losing access to these key pieces:

*Volrath's Stronghold
*Shriekmaw
*Unearth
*Snuff Out
*Maelstrom Pulse
*Pernicious Deed

---

Volrath's Stronghold is unecessary with Worm Harvest.

Shriekmaw and Snuff Out are inferior removal spells compared to Swords to Plowshares.

Even if Shriekmaw can be recurred with Volrath's Stronghold, Engineered Explosives can be recurred with Academy Ruins, so the point is moot.

Maelstrom Pulse can easily become Oblivion Ring, and EE is a sufficient replacement for Pernicous Deed.

I fail to see understand why Unearth would be that important. It's a Reanimate for your 2cc and 3cc creatures, which you could just as easily hardcast. I'd rather run more creatures before running Unearth, since they aren't dead draws if I don't have any creatures in the graveyard.

Quote:

---

The only difficulty is that I don't see how I could do this without compromising the manabase. If you've got a suggestion, however, I'm more than happy to try.

---

I've actually dropped the Lonely Sandbars from my list altogether because they just aren't necessary with Worm Harvest and Ruins/EE, and you are right that they do compromise the manabase. Disregard my suggestion of Lonely Sandbars.

Quote:

---

You know, I agree. At the very least, I should have one in my SB, since it would help so much versus Landstill. I don't know if I can fit a copy into the MD though. (Confession: I don't actually own a Worm Harvest, so I'll have to try to acquire one soon.)

---

Worm Harvest needs to be maindecked. It's a tutorable win condition. Once you hit 5 mana, every excess land in your hand, whether from topdeck or Loam, can be pitched to make a horde of 1/1 tokens. It's not only gamewinning against control decks, it also prevents evasiveless attackers from pushing any damage through. A few turns of Worm Harvest and it's gg. By the time I cast it, I'm usually able to get at least 5 1/1 tokens, but some games I'm making 10 1/1's a cast. It's like a recurring EtW finish. It's brutal against both aggro and control alike, and it's tutorable with Intuition. Worm Harvest singlehandedly replaces cards like Genesis, Gigapede, Volrath's Stronghold, so on and so forth.

Anyway, here is my current U/G/w Bant Loam list:

U/G/w Bant Loam

// Lands (21)
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [R] Tropical Island
2 [R] Tundra
1 [R] Savannah
1 [UG] Island
1 [UG] Forest
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures (8)
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary

// Spells (31)
2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 [EVE] Worm Harvest
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [TE] Intuition
4 [NPH] Mental Misstep
4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives

// Sideboard (15)
SB: 4 [WL] Peacekeeper
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [JU] Ray of Revelation
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [DK] Maze of Ith
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas

Tied for second place tonight, out of 28. There was a 4-way tie for first, though, so I came fifth after all the breakers and got a pack of Future Sight (with nothing of interest in it) for my troubles. :)

R1: Team America - 2-0 - I started by mulling to 5 and having to keep a crappy hand, but my opponent didn't draw Force of Will, and I stayed Daze-proof, so I got a Progenitus into play and easily raced his Tombstalker. G2 saw me with quite a decent hand and Progenitus for the win. I ended up casting Natural Order three times (Progenitus got hit by Perish, then I recurred it with Witness and it was countered, and I finally used Unearth to return a Witness, then Order, and was able to back it with FoW).

R2: Combo Elves - 1-2 - I cast a third turn Progenitus, and it raced a pile of 9/9 elves. Unfortunately, that's where my luck ran out: I had a god hand for G2 (Snuff Out, Pernicious Deed, Crime/Punishment, Tropical Island, Noble Hierarch, Intuition, Brainstorm), but never ended up having access to black mana. I ended up casting Brainstorm three times (thanks again to Unearth on a dead Witness), seeing 7 new cards in two turns, but no black mana. Too bad, because I was staring down an army of 1cc elves and would have won had I been able to cast Punishment. G3, I had to mull to 4 (no lands). I lost as a result, obviously.

R3: R/U Control - 2-0 - I won G1 easily with a T3/T4 Progenitus. G2 was also an easy win--with a massive army of non-Progenitus creatures, this time (the only game I won tonight without Progenitus)! Thanks again to Unearth, and props to Wasteland for helping me to take advantage of his mana-light opening.


This was my sideboard, although I didn't really end up using it:

3 Chalice of the Void
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Pithing Needle
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Krosan Grip
1 Wipe Away
1 Empyrial Archangel


Hanni: Thanks for your thoughts, and the more detailed outline of an approach (list). I'll give it a spin, and will be sure to update it into the primer. I should note, however, that I'm still biased towards my own list, which hasn't been doing too badly at all of late. Since I also lack a chunk of the cards required to try testing your list properly IRL (Jace, Pierce, 3 Wastelands, Ruins, 2 EE, Worm Harvest, Karakas, and Tabernacle), I'm afraid it won't be seeing tournament play from me any time soon. I'd be very interested to see someone give it a spin IRL, however, and to read a report on its performance. It certainly looks both fun and powerful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanni

I fail to see understand why Unearth would be that important. It's a Reanimate for your 2cc and 3cc creatures, which you could just as easily hardcast. I'd rather run more creatures before running Unearth, since they aren't dead draws if I don't have any creatures in the graveyard.

---

I don't mean to respond to all of your input individually, for obvious reasons. I do want to clarify this point, however: Unearth is a phenomenal card in my UGB deck. I realize you're not advocating cutting it from UGB, but I want everyone to be clear on just how amazing this card is. It hasn't just won me a game or two; it wins me game after game after game (tonight being a case in point). It has a multitude of functions:

*It streamlines Intuition piles (e.g. Unearth, Witness, Card you want)
*It sets up powerful plays with Witness (recurring both a lost creature and a lost spell--that's two cards for the price of one, and at the cost of at least one of your opponent's, if not two--or setting up chains of recursion with multiple Witnesses)
*It helps to overcome momentum that's lost early on
*At the very least, it cycles

The fact that it's a singleton means that it seldom sees play before it has a valid reanimation target; indeed, it most commonly comes out via an Intuition pile. As a singleton, its power in the UGB deck also clearly (and disproportionately) outweighs any small detriments that it may have (e.g. vulnerability to Mental Misstep). Unearth has been nothing short of degenerate for me, both IRL and in online testing. While it obviously doesn't have a place in the UGW iteration of the deck that you've suggested, anyone would be seriously remiss not to run in the UGB deck.

Sixth out of 30 tonight (there were a few ties in the T8, but I didn't pay attention). I used the same sideboard as last time.

R1: Dragon Stompy - 2-0 - I'm running more basics than usual since I only have the one Bayou, and I fetch my way into them both games. Both games, I promptly Noble Hierarch my way into Natural Order and Progenitus. Both games took a total of six minutes.

R2: B/W Rack-Aggro - 0-2 - My hand gets double-hymned and I can't recover in time to stop Nyxathid. G2, my opponent gets 2 Nyxathids out on his second turn, and then Hymns me the next turn. I manage to plow on for about four more turns, when I get to Pulse the Nyxathids. I'm left with two lands and a Hierarch, and spend the next four turns trying to topdeck a land to cast Natural Order and win (I know that he didn't side in any answers to Progenitus). He kills my creature, and I draw a land and spend the next three turns trying to topdeck a creature for Natural Order. Then he duresses my Order, casts Nyxathid and The Rack, and I fail to draw Deed, Crime/Punishment, Wipe Away, Pulse, or Krosan Grip. So I lose. He ended up coming in first.

R3: Mono-black Reanimator - 2-1 - I lose G1 to early reanimation, which is to be expected (I misplayed by not Forcing Buried Alive, but it wouldn't have made a difference ultimately). I win G2 thanks to Crypt slowing him down until I build a fearsome army. I win G3 thanks to Faerie Macabre and Progenitus.

Got a pack of Future Sight with Glittering Wish for my troubles. I'll be missing the next two tournaments, unfortunately. The field was even more diverse today, with lots of storm combo and even someone with Lands. I'm very happy with the deck's performance these last few weeks, and strongly encourage people to pick it up for their own weekly events.

Sixth out of 30 tonight (there were a few ties in the T8, but I didn't pay attention). I used the same sideboard as last time.

R1: Dragon Stompy - 2-0 - I'm running more basics than usual since I only have the one Bayou, and I fetch my way into them both games. Both games, I promptly Noble Hierarch my way into Natural Order and Progenitus. Both games took a total of six minutes.

R2: B/W Rack-Aggro - 0-2 - My hand gets double-hymned and I can't recover in time to stop Nyxathid. G2, my opponent gets 2 Nyxathids out on his second turn, and then Hymns me the next turn. I manage to plow on for about four more turns, when I get to Pulse the Nyxathids. I'm left with two lands and a Hierarch, and spend the next four turns trying to topdeck a land to cast Natural Order and win (I know that he didn't side in any answers to Progenitus). He kills my creature, and I draw a land and spend the next three turns trying to topdeck a creature for Natural Order. Then he duresses my Order, casts Nyxathid and The Rack, and I fail to draw Deed, Crime/Punishment, Wipe Away, Pulse, or Krosan Grip. So I lose. He ended up coming in first.

R3: Mono-black Reanimator - 2-1 - I lose G1 to early reanimation, which is to be expected (I misplayed by not Forcing Buried Alive, but it wouldn't have made a difference ultimately). I win G2 thanks to Crypt slowing him down until I build a fearsome army. I win G3 thanks to Faerie Macabre and Progenitus.

Got a pack of Future Sight with Glittering Wish for my troubles. I'll be missing the next two tournaments, unfortunately. The field was even more diverse today, with lots of storm combo and even someone with Lands. I'm very happy with the deck's performance these last few weeks, and strongly encourage people to pick it up for their own weekly events.

I've updated the primer and the opening posts (also added a few matchups, like Hive Mind and NO RUG, that have cropped up since the last update). I'll not be piloting the deck in a tournament again until next week, but I'm looking forward to it!

After being away for more than a month, I'm back and played again tonight. As usual, a 3-round tournament with 32 players tonight. I came in 8th. At this point, I'm comfortable asking a mod to move the thread into the Established forum, so I'll be doing that.

Round 1: GU Counter-Top (with, oddly, Wurmcoil Engine) - 2-0. G1, I mull to 4 (didn't have any lands): I draw a Trop and play Hierarch, and he doesn't counter it. He plays Counterbalance, and I let it through. I then draw a Sea, play Goyf. On his turn, I double-Daze his Goyf and the turn after Pulse the Balance. I beat face with Goyf and win. G2, He leads with a Forest and a Hierarch. I do crack a Catacombs and do the same. He then plays another Hierarch. I then cast Shriekmaw and Snuff Out on both Hierarchs, and he spends the rest of the game trying to catch up. I beat face with two Goyfs, and Daze Wurmcoil Engine when he tries to hardcast it (he's at 2 life at that point with no creatures on the board).


Round 2: Mono-B Pox - 1-2. G1 I win handily with an Exalted Kitchen Finks. G2, I keep a hand with 5-lands and 2 other cards. He double Hymns four of my lands. I draw a land, and then he Smallpoxes. G3 sees me take control of the board with a Deed and a ton of lands, while he has a factory. I draw land after land after land and he gets two Bloodghasts who eventually go all the way. I eventually draw a Hierarch, but have no Natural Order to get the Empyrial Archangel I need.

Round 3: BR Goblins - We both mull to 5. I have no lands, but have Hierarch, Misstep, and Goyf. I figure that either way (whether I keep or mull) I'm going to lose this one, so I keep and cross my fingers. I Misstep his T1 Vial. I draw a Trop, play the Hierarch. It survives the turn so I cast Goyf and end up beating face and countering Warren Weirding. G2, I counter his Vial, play a Goyf, counter Warren Weirding, and Waste his Badlands, leaving him with a Mountain and a Port. He ends up playing a Lackey and a War Marshall, but my Goyf is huge thanks to WW and Vial. I beat down, build up my board (Goyf, Goyf, Finks, Witness) and keep two Snuff Outs in hand (with Brainstorm and Natural Order on top of my library thanks to another Brainstorm). I can't cast the Order thanks to Port, but it doesn't matter. I win handily. We proceed to play another three games, all of which I win in similar fashion (well, conceded the fifth since the store was closing, but it looked like I had the upper hand again).

After being away for more than a month, I'm back and played again tonight. As usual, a 3-round tournament with 32 players tonight. I came in 8th. At this point, I'm comfortable asking a mod to move the thread into the Established forum, so I'll be doing that.

Round 1: GU Counter-Top (with, oddly, Wurmcoil Engine) - 2-0. G1, I mull to 4 (didn't have any lands): I draw a Trop and play Hierarch, and he doesn't counter it. He plays Counterbalance, and I let it through. I then draw a Sea, play Goyf. On his turn, I double-Daze his Goyf and the turn after Pulse the Balance. I beat face with Goyf and win. G2, He leads with a Forest and a Hierarch. I do crack a Catacombs and do the same. He then plays another Hierarch. I then cast Shriekmaw and Snuff Out on both Hierarchs, and he spends the rest of the game trying to catch up. I beat face with two Goyfs, and Daze Wurmcoil Engine when he tries to hardcast it (he's at 2 life at that point with no creatures on the board).


Round 2: Mono-B Pox - 1-2. G1 I win handily with an Exalted Kitchen Finks. G2, I keep a hand with 5-lands and 2 other cards. He double Hymns four of my lands. I draw a land, and then he Smallpoxes. G3 sees me take control of the board with a Deed and a ton of lands, while he has a factory. I draw land after land after land and he gets two Bloodghasts who eventually go all the way. I eventually draw a Hierarch, but have no Natural Order to get the Empyrial Archangel I need.

Round 3: BR Goblins - We both mull to 5. I have no lands, but have Hierarch, Misstep, and Goyf. I figure that either way (whether I keep or mull) I'm going to lose this one, so I keep and cross my fingers. I Misstep his T1 Vial. I draw a Trop, play the Hierarch. It survives the turn so I cast Goyf and end up beating face and countering Warren Weirding. G2, I counter his Vial, play a Goyf, counter Warren Weirding, and Waste his Badlands, leaving him with a Mountain and a Port. He ends up playing a Lackey and a War Marshall, but my Goyf is huge thanks to WW and Vial. I beat down, build up my board (Goyf, Goyf, Finks, Witness) and keep two Snuff Outs in hand (with Brainstorm and Natural Order on top of my library thanks to another Brainstorm). I can't cast the Order thanks to Port, but it doesn't matter. I win handily. We proceed to play another three games, all of which I win in similar fashion (well, conceded the fifth since the store was closing, but it looked like I had the upper hand again).

I didn't know that this concept already exists, but I'm currently working on a setup which is not too far away from yours. So I hope you don't mind if I post it here.

// Lands
3 [R] Tropical Island
2 [R] Bayou
1 [R] Underground Sea
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
1 [TE] Wasteland
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Island
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Forest
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp

// Creatures
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
3 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
2 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [CFX] Progenitus
1 [DIS] Trygon Predator

// Spells
3 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 [VI] Natural Order
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [NPH] Mental Misstep
4 [IA] Brainstorm
2 [TE] Intuition
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
3 [ON] Smother
2 [MBS] Go for the Throat

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [MR] Damping Matrix
SB: 4 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap

As you can see, the differences are basically
- less creatures, but GSZ as a means to get what you want
- less countermagic
- Jace as a powerful "can do everything" tool
- different removal package

I haven't been able to use it in a tourney, but the testing on MWS is not too bad. The MUs I tend to have problems with are Pox/Gate and Maverick (hence the Matrix in the SB, which puts something like a "now it's fair" sign around the neck of most of their key cards).
___________________

There is one thing that I noticed in the primer:

Quote:

---

Shriekmaw ... You could even fetch it out with Natural Order.

---

Actually, you can't. Because NO only finds green creatures.

Moved to Established.

Thanks Bardo!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taurelin

I didn't know that this concept already exists, but I'm currently working on a setup which is not too far away from yours. So I hope you don't mind if I post it here.

---

Of course not! I'm eager to hear your results.

Quote:

---

I haven't been able to use it in a tourney, but the testing on MWS is not too bad. The MUs I tend to have problems with are Pox/Gate and Maverick (hence the Matrix in the SB, which puts something like a "now it's fair" sign around the neck of most of their key cards).

---

Pox is a very tough matchup for me too--but it's not all that common, so I'm OK with that. I'm not entirely sure what more I can do to fix that, except perhaps develop a more consistent sideboarding strategy (bringing in the graveyard removal is worth it, I think, to prevent the creatures from recurring/coming out again). I'm not entirely sure how Damping Matrix helps, however, unless they're running Chimeric Idol. Perhaps it's just a brainfart on my part.

Quote:

---

There is one thing that I noticed in the primer:



Actually, you can't. Because NO only finds green creatures.

---

Thanks for noticing that. I thought I'd eliminated it ages ago, but I guess one instance slipped by me.

i have to say i really like this deck, and i can really understand why unearth would be such a blast

right now i even feel like discarding my team america for this one, as it looks so much more fun


i have a few questions though:

what about dismember or other spotremoval like GftT or smother instead of snuff out

is there an alternative for NO into progenitus?, i havent got these cards and right now i cannot efford them, but i would have the option to build in Dark Dephts, but the problem with Dark Dephts would be that if you want to intuition for the kill you would allready need one of the combopieces in hand or in play, or is there a way/card-combination for intuition so i would not allready need one combo-piece?

thanks in advance

and again really awesome deck, really like it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goaswerfraiejen

R2: B/W Rack-Aggro - 0-2 - My hand gets double-hymned and I can't recover in time to stop Nyxathid. G2, my opponent gets 2 Nyxathids out on his second turn, and then Hymns me the next turn. I manage to plow on for about four more turns, when I get to Pulse the Nyxathids. I'm left with two lands and a Hierarch, and spend the next four turns trying to topdeck a land to cast Natural Order and win (I know that he didn't side in any answers to Progenitus). He kills my creature, and I draw a land and spend the next three turns trying to topdeck a creature for Natural Order. Then he duresses my Order, casts Nyxathid and The Rack, and I fail to draw Deed, Crime/Punishment, Wipe Away, Pulse, or Krosan Grip. So I lose. He ended up coming in first.

---

Valet de Coeur, Montreal?

Hey! Vincent D. here. That Nyxathid deck was mine and I did finish first beating ANT 2-1 in the finals. I remember those games when I made you work for that NO. I don't show up to the weeklies at the Valet often but I always bring something weird and top3 (I think I got first place 2 weeks before that with B/R Zombies). I'll try to find you next time I show up!