Why this over Nought Storm (as in "not storm"). Seems to me that name makes more sense, although I'd probably spell it Not Storm to make it more obvious.Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerLewis
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Why this over Nought Storm (as in "not storm"). Seems to me that name makes more sense, although I'd probably spell it Not Storm to make it more obvious.Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerLewis
I was trying to find some ideas for the "Infiltrator/Maelstrom Djinn" slot. At least checking for other options : while the Maelstrom would still have my preference over the Infiltrator, I'm just never entirely satisfied with either of those two anyway.
But first, since there's no clear choice here, the conclusion may well be list-dependent; so here's the one I used :
// Lands
3 [EX] City of Traitors
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod
5 [CHK] Island (3)
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
// Creatures
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 [FUT] Infiltrator il-Kor (?)
// Spells
4 [SC] Stifle
4 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [SOK] O-Naginata
1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
First of all, you might notice the 3 Chrome Moxes instead of the usual 4. The reasoning is simple :
-while I'm usually happy with the first one, I just hate to see a second one.
-the deck as no draw engine (brainstorm is a very potent effect, but it's still not raw card advantage) and is already pitching cards to fow.
So i switched it for a basic island/a fetch for brainstorm.
Same thing basically for the double lands ; i want one, i like two, but three is just useless. and i like having two colored mana, so that i am able to play a creature and keep one blue open for trickbind/stifle/or eot brainstorm. here again, replaced by an island/a fecth for brainstorm.
So with this build, I have three slots left to fill, and I agree the deck needs it to be filled with some damage source. So I have searched for some potential creatures. basic requirements were a power of 3 minimum (to be able to use o naginata), and flying. here there are (note that i haven't tested them yet) :
-Possessed Aven. 3/3 Flying for 2UU that could occasionally turn 4/4. please note that the UU is usually not a problem in my build. Not too sure about this one.
-Chronozoa. He could prove to be very sweet, or not.
-Thought Devourer. 4/4 flying for 2UU with a drawback that seems like it could turn out to be quite minor in this deck. I think this one at least is worth testing, as it won't get more efficient than this.
Note they're all blue, thus being able to be pitched to fow if you so choose.
What do you think ? Is the 4cc too much ? I'd be happy if you could test them too if you think they're worth it.
Believe me when I say, I've tested or atleast considered just about every single blue card that could fit in the slot before Future Sight saw print. The cards you listed are all kind of slow, or do have a pretty significant draw back.
Ultimately, Clould of Fairies, Looter il Kor, Chimeric Idol/Phyrexian Warbeast and Juggernaut turned out to be the only cards worth running. The first two are weak, and since this version has no room for equipment, it doesn't make sense to run them. Juggernaut doesn't have evasion and isn't blue. Thank god wizards finally printed some semi decent blue beaters again in future sight.
Did you tested them with the old FS shell or with this one ?
I wouldn't call my testing extensive at all, but up til now, the Thought Devourer drawback has never been an issue in the twelve or so games i casted it (told you it couldnt be called extensive in any way for now), and i've not found it difficult to reach the 2UU necessary mana to cast it. and it's not like my earlier turns have been wasted either. between brainstorm, casting the dread combo, the twelve 3cc creatures, or keeping mana open to use stifle effects against combo, i've consistently found ways to put the earlier turns to good use already (those ways differ depending on the matchup of course). which also means i've used quite a lot of cards already, and i actually never had to discard because of him until now.
The Dreaded Sky's or Flying Trinket's
Wow, I really like this idea. Frankly, all FS needed was one more strong Beater and the supposed drawback that 'Nought has is making you play 8 cards that are incredibly powerful in the current metagame. Loosing chalice is pretty bad, but the super quick clock might be worth it.
My vote for a new name: Noughty Faeires. Cmon, it is so frickin tight.
Kronicler
Would you ever consider splashing red in this? Burn might help vs goblins (electrolyze comes to mind) as well as speeding your clock. Volcano Hellion + Stifle/Trickbind might be nice too. Just a thought
ParkerLewis, Thought Devourer sounds like it could be a solid option in a build such as yours that cut some two mana lands for additional islands. I have cut 1 City of Traitors from my list for an additional fetchland, but see little reason to cut Ancient Tomb or Chrome Mox (both allow extreme early game explosiveness but with little drawback).
My build can't support it due to the UU in the casting cost, and I'm not convinced that yours can consistently either, but perhaps it could.
Splashing just makes the deck inconsistent. If you want to play burn, play Psionic Blast. But you are much better off playing undercosted threats that stick around to deal more damage and have to be dealt with in place of one turn use burn spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDrunkDwarf
Also, this deck's manabase can't support more than one colored mana in the mana costs. It's designed to consistently get one island into play per game, no more, no less. So if the deck can't support 2UU casting cost cards or 1UU casting cards, how could it support 1UR casting cards like Electrolyze or 2RR casting cards like Volcano Hellion.
I went back to Infiltrator (inspite of the synergy between Stifle and Djinn) because the lower casting cost of Infiltrator often proves to be a huge tempo advantage. First turn Chrome Mox, Island happens often, and having a reasonably menacing threat to cast that turn is very welcome. Djinn made a deck that's already top heavy in the 3cc slot even more top heavy.
Oh, and before someone suggests that this deck like every other aggro deck should be playing Goyf, here's what that would look like.
-4 Island
-1 City of Traitors
-3 Brainstorm
-4 Infiltrator il-Kor
+3 Tropical Island
+3 Flooded Strand
+2 Polluted Delta
+1 Tree of Tales
+4 Tarmogoyf
+3 Berserk
In my very very brief testing, all it did was make the deck horribly inconsistent (even more inconsistent than the original F. Stompy is), and force you to Chrome Mox or FoW away good cards like Sea Drake and Serendib Efreet. Do with that information what you will.
Excellent post. It took me a little while, but now I realize just how right you were about Bonesplitter. It's hands down superior.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom
I've had sooo many games that went...
Turn 1: Chrome Mox, Ancient Tomb, Sea Drake
Turn 2: Trinket Mage Fetching Bonesplitter, City of Traitors, Cast & Equip Bonesplitter to Sea Drake, Attack for 6.
I can't help but smile. :smile:
I updated the list to reflect this.
Ok, I've had (a little) time to continue playtesting, and for now i have to say that I'm really pleased with the Thought Devourer.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuckerPunch
Here's the build again for reference :
// Lands
5 [CHK] Island (3)
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [EX] City of Traitors
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod
// Creatures
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 [OD] Thought Devourer
// Spells
1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [SC] Stifle
4 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [SOK] O-Naginata
4 [IA] Brainstorm
Up til now, I'm still standing by what I experienced at first :
1) I have no trouble getting to UU by the time I want to cast Thought Devourer.
2) The drawback has still NEVER been significant.
3) One thing I didn't think of : it's really nice to have more than 3 toughness. Suddenly I'm immune to the random Firebolt/Helix (a few aggro decks run these).
4) I don't miss the 4th Ancient Tomb. But I have to admit there are a lot of aggro in my metagame - which are the match ups where I'm least happy to see one.
So I don't know if it's actually the better solution, but I have to say that for now, the Thought Devourer has never dissappointed me, and he convinced me on every contentious point.
On a totally unrelated note, yeah, O-Naginata has basically proved itself useless for the reasons explained before.
So, I have been testing with a similar deck to this. I thas been treating me very well. I had my friend start another thread, but it didn't seem appropriate.
for reference, here is the list.
mana//21
4 wasteland
4 underground sea
2 watery grave
4 polluted delta
1 bloodstaied mire
1 flooded strand
1 island
1 swamp
3 chrome mox
creatures//10
3 dark confidant
3 phyrexian dreadnought
4 trinket mage
spells//29
4 force of will
2 daze
2 counterspell
4 mystical tutor
4 stifle
2 trickbind
3 ghastly demise
1 echoing truth
3 sensei's divining top
3 counterbalance
1 pithing needle
sideboard//
2 doomsday
1 brainfreeze
1 ideas unbound
1 helm of awakening
3 echoing truth
1 pithing needle
2 tormod's crypt
4 engineered plague
The deck has a rediculously great combo MU, as well as solid MUs against a good % of the field.
Please leave feedback as to how I can strengthen this deck... I will also be involved in a tourney with this exact list this friday. I will lave a report.
It's a very cool list and I wish you luck.
But people are unfairly mistaking this for Dreadnought + Stifle deck.
That's not what it is.
It's Fairie Stompy running the Dreadnought + Stifle engine.
The reason it matters is because while the former is required to play that combo, and to keep Dreadnought in play to be able to finish your opponent off, the latter isn't.
The latter (this deck) retains the exceptional combo matchup, but is not dependent on Dreadnought to win and has won many many games within the first four turns without ever seeing a Dreadnought.
I've heard alot of people talk about how being able to add 8 stifle effects to faerie stompy maindeck would improve its combo matchup. I don't understand why you would possibly need a better combo matchup. You already run chalice which is as good or better than stifle. You also lose the equipment which is the single thing that makes this deck awesome. The question before you is simple:
Lose all equipment and chalice
Gain a card that only works with other cards
The cardinal rule I have found is that cards need to be good on thier own in order to work in a deck. I figured this out when building survival. When you got the pieces together it was great but how well does it perform when it doesn't? Take any deck in the current legacy metagame and it always looks fantastic when everythings coming together but the majority of your draws won't be that way. So it needs to be good on its own
Trust me, the deck works, and works very well.
No, the F. Stompy combo MU wasn't all that. Combo can play around Chalice easy, plus you don't see Chalice every game. Aside from that, all the deck had was FoW. So while it could beat combo, it couldn't boast a very favorable matchup against it. Now it can.
Stifle, Trickbind, and Trinket Mage are all great on their own.
This is the only deck that can consistently cast both Dreadnought and Stifle/Trickbind on the first turn thus putting your opponents on a two turn clock.
This is the only blue aggro deck that runs FoW and can support the cards needed for Dreadnought.
This is the only such deck that has tons of other very solid creatures so that it is not even the tiniest bit reliant on Dreadnought. It can win easily even after your opponent uses up their tutoring and card draw to find the StP they need to deal with Dreadnough asap.
Thus it is by and far the best deck suited to use Dreadnougth.
Just wanted to list what Ive been running since Lorywn came out.
4 Ancient T
4 City of T
4 Chrome M
4 Island
3 Flooded S
3 Polluted D
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ponder/Mulldrifter
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Trickbind
4 FoW
4 Phyrexian D
4 Trinket M
4 Sea D
4 Serendib E
I keep going back on whether to use Ponder or Mulldrifter, and whether to run it as a 3 of with Greaves as a 2 of or vice versa.
The deck feels threat lite without the Infiltrator. :( But there's no point in playing some weak 1/1 or 2/1 flyer here as the deck has no way to equip to pump it.
But Lightning Greaves is absolutely insane. Turn one Greaves, Turn two Dreadnought, Trickbind, Equip, attack with a 12/12 trampler with shroud is incredible and very very easy to pull off.
I urge you to try and comment on this deck.
The list may still need a little tuning though because as I said, the deck feels a little threat lite.
Thinking a little outside the box yields something like this:
Creatures
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Trinket Mage
4 Mulldrifter
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 disruption, 4 tutors, 4 card draw, 4 game enders
Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Diamond
I added mox diamond and lotus petal here because of the 8 maindeck moons, which make it little easier to get a turn 1 moon, and still generate blue mana afterwards.
Enchantments
4 Blood Moon
Yep, this is pretty good.
Instants
4 Stifle
4 Trickbind
4 Force of Will
The blue spell count is high enough to run FoW, so it's a no-brainer. The 8 stifle effects make bringing dreadnought online easy, but they also prevent people from fetching their basics.
Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Island
4 Snow-Covered Island
4 Volcanic Island
A better configuration of volcanics and basic islands might exist, but you want enough volcanics to guarantee a turn 1 red mana source, and enough islands to have consistent blue sources under your own blood moons. Mox diamond and lotus petal help of course.
Side-Board
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Damping Matrix
3 ?
Chalice and crypt are anti-combo cards to help shore up those match-ups. Damping matrix shuts down so many things it's not even funny, but coincidentally it has no effect on this deck at all (it might even be main deck worthy stopping fetches, survival, aether vial, wasteland, port, equipment, and much more). I'm not sure what the last three side-board slots would be.
I've got absolutely zero playtesting to speak of (since this is just off of the top of my head), but it seems to have some serious potential.
Trust me, splashes absolutely do not work in this deck. I've tried splashing green (for Goyf) and Black (for Negator and a ton of other cards) so many times.
But all it does is make an already inconsistent deck 100% more inconsistent.
So I kindly ask that we please keep the discussion to monoblue. Thank you.
I see that the poll seems to support Ponder.
I definately understand the logic.
Ponder works well with the numerous fetchlands and works to help get your combo pieces turn one rather than making you wait till you have 3 mana for Mulldrifter.
It also searches/filters through more cards to find your combo piece than Mulldrifter.
TO ALL THOSE WHO VOTED "OTHER" ON THE POLL, please post what you think the deck would be better served running instead. I'm working really hard to optimize it so I would love to get some suggestions for new cards to test.
And just to avoid confusion, here's the current list being referred to in the POLL...
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Island
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Pithing Needle
2 ???????????????
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Trickbind
4 FoW
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
The question is, what cards should I be running the ???????? SLOT.
Ideally there's an awesome very strong low cc creature out there like Sea Drake or Efreet that is blue (for FoW) and doesn't have suspend/haste already like Infiltrator il-Kor (so it can abuse Lightning Greaves).
Whatever it is, it absolutely can't be some wimpy ass two power creature. 3 power is the bare minimum as this deck has no Jitte or SOFI to turn small creatures into large ones. Without Jitte or SOFI to lean on, Cloud of Fairies, Looter il Kor and Weatherseed Fairies all suck.
Playing such a creature would keep the threat count high. I just can't think of any.
The second option is to play Ponder (or Mulldrifter), as a card drawer to draw into the other threats. Ponder seems ideal for this purpose.
In theory it could be Jitte, though the deck doesn't have enough creatures to support so much equipment or enough blue to support FoW imo.