He can still bolt it with the fetch on the stack, meaning it'll always mill for 3. If you've got a land in hand that is. Crap.
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He can still bolt it with the fetch on the stack, meaning it'll always mill for 3. If you've got a land in hand that is. Crap.
And the opponent has 1 less bolt to kill you, giving you more time.
there is a card 1U instant search your deck for a trap that was spoiled. 4 archive traps now = 8 Archive traps!
Yeah. The only problem I see with that is that Archive Trap would be the deck's Price of Progress; often a home run, but sometimes just dead. Doubling up on that risk could be dangerous, but it also has potential payoffs.
Also makes Mindbreak Trap more attractive as a sideboard option, though.
Just to mention it:
http://sales.starcitygames.com/cards...ter_ordeal.jpg
I like what the person above me posted. You might want to try running energy field. Cast energy field when your hand is nearly depleted and sit behind it for a few turns while you draw into something decent, that or ensaring bridge.
http://www.wizards.com/global/images...uiltfeeder.jpg
Gives you another win condition without altering the deck too much.
Guilt Feeder was a hilarious, oddly competitive kill condition in T2, but it's too slow and clunky to work beyond that. If it costs five mana, doesn't provide card advantage and can't even kill a Tarmogoyf in a fight, it's probably no good.
Could a mill deck with green and blue be any good? I like hedron crab with veteran explorer and archive trap, not sure what else to play. Seen alot of players try to fully abuse veteran explorer. But what would we be accelerating to? If they search, you hit them with archive trap, and thats 15 out of there library, if they dont, your up 2x lands, and if you have crab out, its 2 land fall triggers. Fuck it, if im going to play mill, might as well play grindstone/servant.
Seems better than Sanity Grinding, but since you need to mill before playing it to really have any substantial effect, I feel like Haunting Echoes is even better here.Quote:
Originally Posted by matamagos
How do you expect to get 10+ permanents into a graveyard on a single turn in order to make it better than Sanity Grinding?
You get to pick the exact cards that get removed.
If you're trying to mill them to death, stripping out a few key cards is far worse than just milling a lot of cards. It's much better to mill ten cards with Grinding than to mill from one to three specific ones with Ordeal. If you want to strip something specific out of their deck, why not just use Cranial Extraction? For one mana more, you're guaranteed to actually hit every single copy, including the ones in their hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivon
Guys, guys. PERMANENTS. That means things in play, not cards from the library.
Permanents only exist in play? How does Nature's Spiral work then? Wouldn't it say "for each permanent put into the graveyard from the battlefield..."Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfred
Someone check the rules because that's not my area of expertise.
Nature's Spiral says "permanent card."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comprehensive Rules
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Originally Posted by Comprehensive Rules
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comprehensive Rules
Ahhh then the oracle text on magiccards.info needs to be updated with the battlefield wording. Thanks for the clarification.
Looks like it's worthless after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by murderface
Veteran explorer it's too much advantage for the opponent. If you can't mill the entire deck, two more lands in play would give him a turn less to kill you.
In place of Veteran explorer I would place Ghost Quarter. With Hedron Crab you can break your own lands and without it you can break opponent's Mishra's, Duals, etc... It give to him less advantage that Veteran and you can do almost the same tricks.
As nobody post a deck in a while, here I go:
Density
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
8 [ZEN] Island (1)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [R] Underground Sea
4 [DIS] Ghost Quarter
// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Hedron Crab
// Spells
4 [US] Energy Field
4 [ZEN] Trapmaker's Snare
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [RAV] Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 [ARB] Mind Funeral
4 [SOK] Twincast
4 [SC] Brain Freeze
4 [ZEN] Archive Trap
I'm not sure about Twincast, Trapmaker's Snare and Brain Freeze slots, but I think that everything else it's ok.
- Archive Trap, Glimpse, Mind Funeral. Best mill cards.
- 8 Fetchlands + 4 Ghost Quarters give you enough lands to play with Hedron Crab. 24 lands gives you mana to play Traps hardcasting them.
- Hedron Crab: The little guy can mill 6 cards for every fetch you play and 3-6 for every Ghost Quarter. It's the CC1 card that would mill more cards. Use it carefully because he can mill 0 too if you are unlucky but can block lackey and other small critters all the day or buy you a turn vs a big goyf.
- Energy field buys time for you to fill your hand. As Swords it's the most played kill card in Legacy, you can play Crabs and lands while draw and keeps mill spells vs a lot of decks.
- Brainstorm: with 12 fetch effects you must play brainstorm :)
- Twincast, Trapmaker's Snare and Brain Freeze: the "I want more mill cards and doesn't have anything better" cards.
I goldfish a little and 4 Twincast are too much. I'll drop 2.
Trapmaker's Snare abuse of Mindbreak trap, but it needs that your opponent plays fetchlands or search with Ghost Quarters.
Brain Freeze would mill 6 or 9 cards. If you compare it with the others mill spells, cc of 2 it's a lot.
I think you mean Archive Trap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gocho
One could run Mystical Tutor and cantrips or top to both allow for better consistency of good mill spells and sudden trapping. It would further the issue of card disadvantage, but it is an option.
I've been running a mill deck lately, and it has been doing very, very well. It runs:
Hedron Crab
Force of Will
Daze
Spell Snare
Archive Trap
Glimpse the Unthinkable
Mind Funeral
Lands
In a game against goblins, it was about even. Sometimes I could mill before they swung in to kill, sometimes not. Most other decks I faced, including Dreadstill, the Rock, and a few others, died. Is it amazing? No. Is it better now that Zen is out? Oh yes.
Is Hedron Crab useful as your only creature? It seems like it'd just bite a Plow every time it hit play.
We just had a mill deck top 8 a 32 player tourney. The only game I saw involved double Hedron Crab and lots of fetches. He won the game after his opponent walked into double Archive Trap and he Pathed one of his dudes. I know he also ran Wall of Denial. He ended up losing to 4c Countertop inthe Semis.
Yes, my fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by majikal
Note that once it hits play, you get back priority and can play a land before the opponent can do anything about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Otter
Problem is, is that he'll die before a fetch puts a land into play, meaning he's usually a "mill 3" for U (not good). I don't know if targettable creatures are all that great in this deck TBH.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJones
Sometimes he bites the dust, but he also blocks a first turn lackey. Also, he's not my only creature, I also play random crap that I'm embarrassed to even mention. Also, I'd usually counter it, as I usually mull INTO Hedron crab. :D