[Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

You can play summoner's pact and land grant in the same list at least my list incorporates both as 4 ofs quite effectively. I just put it together and goldfished it today and it was getting a lot of turn 1 kills when I goldfished it. I really like summoner's pact though, the card is just amazing with LED and it combos so well with the rest of the deck when you use it as a tutor for slithermuse, cracking LED in response for UUU is probably going to leave you with some mana floating after you cast the slithermuse in the form of black mana usually because summoner's pact into slithermuse is just so powerful a play and generates so much storm as well as card advantage, because lets face it on turn 1 if you slithermuse against someone its like a one sided wheel of fortune or it says draw 5 cards for 3U which is extremely powerful in Pact Land Grant SI. And if you can leave a blue floating you can potentially recur slithermuse with eternal witness also very powerful but maybe overkill when you can simply return an infernal tutor or another draw4 or something to continue the spell chain into a lethal tendrils or a belcher activation.

Also Duke Knight trying to incorporate a man plan and protection plan into one sideboard sounds iffy. I'd either go all out protection plan or all out man plan with 4 urami's, 4 tombstalker's, 4 phylactery lich, and 3 death's shadow. Incorporating both makes the overall plan weaker against certain decks. Then again I could be wrong and both could be incorporated, I'm not claiming to be the expert on all things concerning SI since I recently picked up the deck myself.

Summoner's Pact can only seach for a green creature, be mindful of that. It cannot be used as a Slithermuse tutor, otherwise you would indeed have the most broken draws.

But i do agree that Muse on the play is perhaps one of if not the strongest play the deck can make.

Yes, you cannot Pact--> Slithermuse. Pact gets you Wild Cantor if you want to make that play but thats all. I've dropped one Xantid from the maindeck in favor of Cantor ATM. Its been better overall. For the record, I frequently make the play to recur Slithermuse post-D7 with Eternal Witness. I've been making this play a lot too. Diabolic Intent/Infernal Tutor + LED is beast.

Yep that is definitely me misreading summoner's pact. It can only get green creatures. *sigh* no wonder I was winning so much games turn 1 because pacting for slithermuse with LED on board is just bah roken as hell but an illegal play. I'll be changing my list to include diabolic intents right now, seems essential being able to tutor for slithermuse or whatever card you need and having sick synergy with LED as well all know. Wild cantor should probably be in my list as well, as a 1 of because it generates storm and sacks for any color of mana specifically blue mana for slithermuse.

Here is my current list. I guess it would fall into the "SITES" catagory.

// Lands
2 [A] Bayou

// Creatures
4 [LG] Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
3 [LG] Crimson Kobolds

// Spells
4 [7E] Infernal Contract
4 [PT] Cruel Bargain
4 [EX] Culling the Weak
4 [A] Dark Ritual
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
3 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [MM] Land Grant
1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
2 [MR] Goblin Charbelcher
4 [JU] Burning Wish

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 4 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 3 [M11] Duress
SB: 1 [M11] Time Reversal
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [NE] Reverent Silence
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [10E] Deathmark

I just started goldfishing this list:

4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Eternal Witness
1 Slithermuse
1 Odious Trow
1 Tinder Wall
1 Wild Cantor

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
2 Manamorphose

3 Tendrils of Agony
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Infernal Contract
4 Cruel Bargain
4 Summoner's Pact

I never played any form of Storm Combo before but this list is fun as hell to play. I haven't tested against any decks yet, so I haven't noticed the relevance of lacking MD Xantid, so any advice on that would be appreciated. Also, Manamorphose is always awkward when I draw it, I want to replace it with something else but I don't know what. 2 Xantids seems like a good call, but where to I put the other 2 Xantids? I really like having Wild Cantor, he helps to fix mana and Storm like Manamorphose, but it's tutorable so you don't often draw it when you don't want it (compared to never wanting to draw Manamorphose, ever!).

Also, I have no clue where to start with the sideboard. I like the idea of a man-plan (with Phylactery Lich, he's an awesome card), but I don't know where to start since I haven't played any matchups. I'm pretty certain this deck can rock every single deck in the format pre-board (except U.dec), but I don't know for certain if there are any non-U decks to worry about.

Obviously sideboarding is important against blue decks, so a little insight on strategy against popular, problematic archetypes. I'm assuming that a man-plan SB and a regular SB play differently so an example of each with a basic explanation would be useful.

I'm not sure if any of this is in the primer but if it is I missed it, so feel free to point it out if so. If not, any advice would be appreciated!

Also, opinions of Leyline of Sanctity? This seems like GG to us, so how do we play around it?

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Originally Posted by jrsthethird

Also, opinions of Leyline of Sanctity? This seems like GG to us, so how do we play around it?

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Unless I'm missing the revelation I dont see this card showing up in high numbers of archetypes. And the man-plan just ignores it anyways. IF (and thats a big if) it became a major problem, there is always something like Nature's Claim I guess.

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Originally Posted by jrsthethird

I just started goldfishing this list:

4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Eternal Witness
1 Slithermuse
1 Odious Trow
1 Tinder Wall
1 Wild Cantor

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
2 Manamorphose

3 Tendrils of Agony
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Infernal Contract
4 Cruel Bargain
4 Summoner's Pact

I never played any form of Storm Combo before but this list is fun as hell to play. I haven't tested against any decks yet, so I haven't noticed the relevance of lacking MD Xantid, so any advice on that would be appreciated. Also, Manamorphose is always awkward when I draw it, I want to replace it with something else but I don't know what. 2 Xantids seems like a good call, but where to I put the other 2 Xantids? I really like having Wild Cantor, he helps to fix mana and Storm like Manamorphose, but it's tutorable so you don't often draw it when you don't want it (compared to never wanting to draw Manamorphose, ever!).

Also, I have no clue where to start with the sideboard. I like the idea of a man-plan (with Phylactery Lich, he's an awesome card), but I don't know where to start since I haven't played any matchups. I'm pretty certain this deck can rock every single deck in the format pre-board (except U.dec), but I don't know for certain if there are any non-U decks to worry about.

Obviously sideboarding is important against blue decks, so a little insight on strategy against popular, problematic archetypes. I'm assuming that a man-plan SB and a regular SB play differently so an example of each with a basic explanation would be useful.

I'm not sure if any of this is in the primer but if it is I missed it, so feel free to point it out if so. If not, any advice would be appreciated!

Also, opinions of Leyline of Sanctity? This seems like GG to us, so how do we play around it?

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IDK why you wouldn't want to draw Manamorphose ever. The deck has green mana falling out of its ass. As long as you have black floating, and either ESG or Pact, you should have the green to color fix. Actually Manamorphose is rarely dead in my hand. I can't recall a time when I couldnl't cast it when I needed to. If you don't like it though, play something else in its place. Also, I wouldn't recommend running so many tallmen unless you plan on taking advantage of them. Odious Trow and Cantor are usually redundant. Tinderwall is alright but its better if you are running Burning Wish, which is pretty powerful:

DSI:
Business (18)
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Slithermuse
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Contract
4 Cruel Bargain

Mana: (42)
1 Wild Cantor
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Tinder Wall
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Chrome Mox
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor

SB
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Balance of Power
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Meltdown
1 Deathmark
4 Empty the Warrens
4 Xantid Swarm
2 Carpet of Flowers

Not finalized but here's something for people to test. Direlemming is still playing around with a good build, slightly different than mine with great results, no fizz's and 70% turn 1's. LED's are absolutely nuts. Tinderwalls give you access to a lot of red, which is great post-board when you need someway to cast EtW. Direlemmnig list looks like this:

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Results so far have been very encouraging. We have sufficient bomb density and ability to generate initial mana from non-land sources, that IGG is almost never a dead draw, be it opening 7 or mid chain.

Current list:

Business (19)
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Slithermuse
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Contract
3 Cruel Bargain
1 Ill Gotten Gains
1 Eternal Witness

Mana: (41)
1 Wild Cantor
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Tinder Wall
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
1 Skyshroud Cutter
3 Chrome Mox
4 Land Grant
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor

SB
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Balance of Power
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Cruel Bargain/IGG
1 Grape Shot
4 Carpet of Flowers
1 Duress

Following the success of IGG main, I'm testing if it's worth a slot in the wishboard as well. Probably in place of D4.

I'm pushing 70% T1 with this list; no fizzles in the last 50 games, even on a mulligan to 4. Keep in mind it's impossible to separate me becoming a better SI pilot from actual deck improvements. It may well be, some past incarnation is objectively (or for your playstyle) better. The other issue with my results is, they are mostly goldfishing which can lead to optimizing for the wrong qualities. My thinking here is, being a glass cannon has more to do with (in)consistency than strategy.

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Skyshroud Cutter is an interesting choice. Its basically a green kobold. Your opponent gaining 6 life is trivial when you are normally playing tendrils for 30+ on turn 1. Maindeck IGG is a playstyle choice. I also prefer to keep the full playset of D4's maindeck.

At the above post, if it's pushing 70% kill turn 1, how many of those are caused by grabbing Diminishing Returns? When I play the deck I find that's a pretty common play, and it's really risky, giving them a second chance to draw a FoW or Daze. Also, what do you count Slithermuse and the sorcery in the wish board as? Do I draw upto 7 again?

Well against control it depends. You don't need to grab Dreturns against control if you can just go EtW for 20 tokens, which is often the case with PSI. If you played Summoner's Pact, you are in a win now situation. Burning Wish flexible in that respect. Also, Balance of Power is there against control as a virtual Slithermuse to avoid the possibility of your opponent drawing a second FoW.

I'm not sure what you mean by your last question. Slithermuse is Slithermuse in both lists. Direlemming prefers having access to both IGG and Slithermsue with IT. I prefer opening up that extra slot for an additional Tinderwall, and prefer the extra D4 for the full double playset.

I see. What I meant by the last question though is that if I'm goldfishing and I go IT->LED->Slithermuse, do I assume my opponent is still at 7 and draw upto that many cards? What if it's turn 2 or 3, what's the rule for how many cards Slithermuse nets? I draw upto 7 on the play turn one, but after that I go -2 a turn as my rule, and Slithermuse loses a lot of its effectiveness.

Well if you are on the play then your opponent will probably have 7 cards in hand unless they mulligan. I usually first draw 5 cards whenever I use it to try to see if I can go off with only 5. Even if you are passing the turn on the play, your opponent will draw an extra card so even if they play land creature, you will still draw 6.

Unanswerable leylines that singlehandedly prevent us from winning are not acceptable. An opponent willing to mulligan down to one if necessary has a 87% chance of putting the game away on turn 0. This is a theoretical probability, not an empirical result inflated by players' chronic inability to truly randomise their decks. So... blow them away in game 1, and they still have a 75% chance of walking away with the match on the back of a mere 4 sideboard cards.
We shouldn't allow opponents to let the game degenerate in their favour - that's our job when playing fast combo.

Fortunately, it's not a big issue for many versions. Red versions have Empty the Warrens and Burning Wishes. Versions that can draw the entire deck (enabled by something like multiple Glimpse of Nature or Null Profusion) can defeat it without going overboard with answers.

*

Regarding limited man plans: I don't like real creatures here. Tombs may be an option if you need more initial mana sources as well, Wishes can fetch other useful stuff in a pinch. Death Wish for Death's Shadow makes the latter immediately castable and it's quite good considering how much control SI has over its life total.

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

Well if you are on the play then yoru pppoent usuallys drso liek 6 acrds cause theyl darw na eactra. otherswis i usualldy traw 7 cadrds.

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Best. Typing. Ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yankeedave

Best. Typing. Ever.

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Sorry lol. I probably shouldn't have said anything. I can't type to save my life after a good night of beer pong.

@Iranon
People have established in most threads about that leyline that its bad. I don't think we will run into it, for the reasons you mentioned. EtW is an acceptable alternative if we can't just remove it. Reverent Silence from the Wishboard is also a decent answer.

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Originally Posted by yankeedave

Best. Typing. Ever.

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Methinks someone hit a spot of the sauce last night... Lol

EDIT: Gawddamn ninjas!!

DOUBLE EDIT: @Iranon: I think the Death Wish for Death's Shadow idea is kind of intriguing... But I can't really tell at first blush if it's cute as a fox, or well... just cute. Anyways, I'm interested what your argument against the man plan sideboard option is. You mention that you don't like it, but why not? Takes up too much space in the sideboard? Not effective in our problem match-ups? I'll buy that you probably have a good reason, I'm just curious what it is. And it seems to me that Tomb of Urami, and maybe to a somewhat lesser extent, Phylactery Lich, are pretty good options for us.

Actually Death Wish for Death's Shadow post-D4 isn't that bad. It would be an 8/8 for B. Thats actually a pretty good oh shit button if you think about it.
In general the man plan has been made a much weaker option because people keep their removal in for Xantid Swarm. The thing is your opponent can't have removal and countermagic for everything. We might want to explore it again. Its still unconventional even if people know about it. The majority of players who encounter storm will expect some kind of discard suite post-board or something.

@ DukeDemonKn1ght: I don't like weakening Plan A (Tendrils to the face, preferably on turn 1), and if I do so I'd prefer the inclusion to save my bacon in a variety of situation.

A midsized creature doesn't help plan A at all and is rather narrow effect. Tomb of Urami is also an initial mana source so it has a place in plan A. Against decks that can attack our initial mana or that trade card for card without putting the game away, having more permanent mana sources is a major asset.
Similarly, Death Wish can fetch a midsized creature if that's all what we want from it, but it can also conclude plan A by fetching a lethal Tendrils or high-end business, or get rid of roadblocks making Plan A possible in the first place.

So, has anyone tried putting together a list that runs Death Wish? I'm tinkering with the idea myself right now, basically in a Land Grant type of shell, but it doesn't quite make sense to me yet. Also, I'm having a hard time finding space for the full playset of Death Wish in the main deck... Any thoughts from anyone what a "DWSI" list would look like?

Or is Death Wish just not strong enough compared to Burning Wish to actually be worth it? (Besides letting you wish for Goblin Charbelcher, Autumn's Veil, Xantid Swarm, Tomb of Urami, Death's Shadow, and Slithermuse, I can't think of other things that Burning Wish couldn't grab. And I'm not entirely sure how many of the cards I just mentioned are juicy wish-targets anyways...)

EDIT: Also, on a different note, has anyone tried fucking around with Veteran Explorer as a one-of in a Summoner's Pact based list? He's probably pretty risky against control, since you may give them the relevant mana to set-up or to counter one of your spells.... Also, he would require squeezing two basic lands into the list, but that in itself doesn't seem so impossible. But against any other deck, it seems pretty sweet to have a creature that gives you free acceleration when he hits the grave, especially since the two basics will give you fodder to try to go off again if you need to. Is it just too much of a corner-case scenario, or am I actually onto something here?

In general, you ought to run Burning Wish over Death Wish. SI can do disgusting things with both, but getting access to red isn't particularly difficult when you have Fetchlands, Lotus Petals, and SSG's in a list like SITES. I think a few people have successfully run 1-2 Death Wish maindeck.

Veteran Explorer is certainly intriguing. The good thing about him is that he finds you lands even if your Culling the Weak or Diabolic Intent gets countered. In general, though, I haven't been too impressed so far with Lands in PSI. Even in goldfishing, its just hasn't been worth it. He's mad mana advantage if you also have a sacrifice outlet in hand and could make the land build more viable. I think the Land Grant/Belcher configuration is actually much better against control.

On the topic of Veteran Explorer, consider the following:
Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual, Cruel Bargain, ESG, Pact, Pact, Culling the Weak
Pact--> Veteran Explorer (VE), ESG--> VE, Lotus Petal, Culling the Weak, fetch Swamp Swamp, (BBB,BBB) floating...

The only problem with this play is that Pact + ESG effectively adds you 2 additional black to your mana pool so its effectively just converting GG into BB, but we can already do that with Manamorphose, and we get to draw a card. So its not a bad play but you have to think about the opportunity costs here. What cards are you giving up to play 1 VE and 2 Swamps? Swamps are usually going to be dead while you are trying to chain D4's together and VE will only be good if you have enough sac outlets. Usually you will only hit one land drop with SI because you are constantly going off turn 1, especially with PSI. I don't think its worth it, but feel free to test it and see how it goes.

Well, after trying to take into account all the information flying around on this thread, I've come up with the following list. Feedback is gladly accepted:

Business:
4 Cruel Bargain
4 Infernal Contract
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Tendrils of Agony
1 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Ill-Gotten Gains

Accel:
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

Sacrificial Lambies:
4 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Walker

Protection:
4 Cabal Therapy

Land:
4 Land Grant
2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor

SIDEBOARD:
So far, this is all I'm sure about:
4 Xantid Swarm
3-4 Autumn's Veil
2-3 Carpet of Flowers
0-4 Tomb of Urami
0-3 Phylactery Lich (is this guy worth it, or am I just attracted to the shiny newness?)
0-3 Deathmark/ Nature's Claim (is this just me being paranoid?)
0-4 Empty the Warrens

So there you have it. I'm going for consistency at the expense of a little bit of speed with my list, so please keep that in mind when giving feedback. I'm not entirely sure whether or not the maindeck IGG is necessary and/or a good idea... Is there anything that I should replace that with?

EDIT: Also, has anybody thought about Maelstrom Pulse as potential sideboard tech? Like, maybe just one in the sideboard in a version that runs Burning Wish? Sure, it costs a bit mana-wise (and money-wise), but I think the versatility might push it over stuff like Deathmark, Meltdown, etc in some lists that don't mind killing on turn 2-3...

That looks almost perfect. Personally, I'm not convinced about Dryad Arbor here...while it can be useful Therapy/Culling fodder, I'm not sure it's worth weakening Infernal Tutor, Goblin Charbelcher and Land Grant's primary function (useful starting mana). Note that you can't imprint it even though it's green.

The sideboard looks a bit one-dimensional in its focus against countermagic, but since 'no change, go for the throat' is a viable option against most other things that's not a huge problem.

All in all: a few things I don't like, but definitely playable.

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Originally Posted by Iranon

That looks almost perfect. Personally, I'm not convinced about Dryad Arbor here...while it can be useful Therapy/Culling fodder, I'm not sure it's worth weakening Infernal Tutor, Goblin Charbelcher and Land Grant's primary function (useful starting mana). Note that you can't imprint it even though it's green.

The sideboard looks a bit one-dimensional in its focus against countermagic, but since 'no change, go for the throat' is a viable option against most other things that's not a huge problem.

All in all: a few things I don't like, but definitely playable.

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If I were to cut the Dryad Arbor, what do you think would be best? Slithermuse? Second Ill-Gotten Gains?

Also, I completely see what you mean about the sideboard... I think one-dimensional is a good way of describing the problem. There are a couple options I can think of to get a better sideboard. Probably the most compelling would be to replace Cabal Therapy with Burning Wish and have a silver-bullet style sideboard: Deathmark, Meltdown, etc.

Another thing I've been thinking of is potentially replacing Phyrexian Walker with maindeck Xantid Swarm, but I have the feeling I'd have to somehow add more green mana to the deck... Also, Swarm is kind of a shitty culling target (since you don't gain as much acceleration from it.)

Even if I keep the maindeck the way it is, I think the sideboard needs work. Does anyone have any tech they want to share? Also, out of the cards I listed as potential sideboard options, which are too good not to use, and which can fall by the wayside?

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Mana
3 ESG
4 LED
4 D.Ritual
4 C.Ritual
4 Culling the weak
4 mox
4 Petal
4 Land grant
1 Arbor
1 bayou
Draw/Tutor
8 Draw4
4 Manamorphose
4 I.Tutor
4 pact
Business
1 Trow
1 Cantor
1 Witness
1 IGG
1 Belcher
2 Tendrils
Sideboard
1 Dosan, the falling leaf
1 ESG
1 Uktabi Orangutan
4 Carpet Flowers
4 Oxidize
1 Naturalize
2 Tomb of Urami
1 Bayou

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Sideboardplans:
U-based decks: -4 Cabal ritual -1 Wild Cantor + 1 Dosan, the falling leaf +4 Carpet flowers
Thoughts: Playing pact in SI is the same dilemma as in LEDdredge; you will board it out g2 and g3 and replace it with Swarm or aggressive creatures. With 4 Morphose and 4 Carpet Flowers we should be able to cast Dosan, which is a must counter for every u.deck. Dosan has also protection from spell snare and spell pierce and forces the opponent, if he cannot counter him to cast problematic STP and bolts. Produce a lot of mana and try to trick the opponent.

Aggro loam/ Stax:
Game1: win the dice roll
Game2: +3 Oxidize +1 Naturalize + 1Uktabi Orangutan + 1 ESG + 3 Lands -4 Lotus Petal -1 IGG -1 EW - 1 Belcher - 1Pact -1 Chrome mox
Thoughts: They will take mulligan to chalice. We don't know if they cast them with [1] or [0] counters.
[0]: Lay down your lands and try to get access to [Draw4] Oxidize.
[1]: pact-> Orangutan
Game3: + 1 ESG + 1 Uktabi Orangutan -1 Cantor - 1 Witness
Thoughts: Try to cast Mox, Petal, Lands and wait for business or get the perfect hand

I went on a small tournament today to test the deck and it's sideboard. 15 persons, 4 rounds.

Zoo
Game 1. I don't know what he's playing, but he expects burn (I played it last time). I won the dice roll and mulled to 5--> Land, D.Ritual, Mox,IGG, Belcher.
Keep--> turn 1 belcher. he nacatl. Turn 2 draw LED :smile:--> He (at 2 Life) casts a Teeg, playing Lighning Helix, and beat me to 4 life. I found the 3rd Mana in the last moment and killed him for 35.
Game 2. He begins with Nacatl again. I fear Teeg/Thorn and begin with draw 4 -->10 Life --> pass. He beats me down to 4 life again, I found IT and managed Tendrils for 20 Life. Note: without Cantor(pact) wouldn't that be possible

Bant with CB, without Survival and NO
Game1. Because everyone in the room knows that I'm playing >Belcher<, he takes mulligan to force. I kept a hand with a lot of startmana and 2 Draw4s. He begins with top.
During 10- 15 Turn's (arbor beat him to 13 Life:tongue:!) I tried to built up a solid manabase (collectiing rituals, IT and draw4's). Because he doesn't really know my deck he wastes his counters on the startmana, in hope to draw his CB's (Top is online). At 3 Life I made around 15 mana, played around his counters and Tendrils him for 28.
Game2. Played around his counters and killed him Turn 5 or 6

Goblins R/G
A bye matchup. I know that I would facing Gobbos.
Game1. I don't know what I've done.Won the dice roll and hold that hand: Land grant, 3 draw4,3 manamorphose. I played Land grant Turn 1--> pass-->waste--> EPIC FAIL
Game2 on the play, mull to 6 killed him Turn 3 via IGG before his creatures would overrun me.
Game3 he begins and I draw a storm 9 hand. The next 3 turns I drew useless Draw4s and a turn later the last piece of my combo. I play LED he response on IT with Grip, l0l. GG

Dreadstill !!!, yeah
Game 1: I fear a lot of counters. He begins and take mulligan to counters and plays seat of synod. I drew that hand: 3 D.Ritual, morphose, pact, LED. Keep. Draw IT. Alll in, because it will be become certainly much worse each turn-->tried to trick him. I play IT in the end and he response with spell snare (his only counter)...
Game 2. Tons of counter and hate cards,18 counters, 3 waste, 3 balance, 2 explosives, lands and draw

In the end bad Opp. Score and misses a wasteland.

I will cut Morphose and put them to the SB, because they are really hard to master. You don't know what you have if they are on your hand, on the other side they are nice with EW and draw4s. Morphose will be 3 therapy and 1 ESG. I will board them against Bye-matchups, combo and stax.
Cantor was always a free slot, but today he surprised me and won me 2 games. Store mana, change color, get threshhold or Storm 2 for free with pact are in my opinion to good.

@ everyone I know that my english is bad:cool:
@Vacrix
I tested S.Muse. In combination with IT/LED (Turn 1-2) great, but most of the time just a weaker Meditate. If Muse would be black I would certainly play it, but the fish is blue and makes you more dependent on Morphose/Cantor/Petal

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Originally Posted by the resurrection

Game3 he begins and I draw a storm 9 hand. The next 3 turns I drew useless Draw4s and a turn later the last piece of my combo. I play LED he response on IT with Grip, l0l. GGl

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His play is not possible, you MUST keep priority after playing IT in order to sac LED, if you don't keep it, opponent doesn't need grip, he just says ok and your IT resolves without saccing LED.

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Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght

EDIT: Also, has anybody thought about Maelstrom Pulse as potential sideboard tech? Like, maybe just one in the sideboard in a version that runs Burning Wish? Sure, it costs a bit mana-wise (and money-wise), but I think the versatility might push it over stuff like Deathmark, Meltdown, etc in some lists that don't mind killing on turn 2-3...

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It's too slow, lists that don't mind killing on T2/3 aren't called SI imo. Unnatural speed and people's unfamiliarity with SI are only reasons to play it.

and to contribute to thread a bit, i see that some people are overloading their SB with "man-plan". When you SB out 8 cards for 8 mans, your comboing potential lowers significantly and things like Phylactery Lich aren't strong enough - people will probably keep swords for Xantid Swarm anyway...

DukeDemonKn1ght - I'd probably just stick to the Land Grant SI list in Vacrix primer. No need to weaken Belcher by adding a Dryad Arbor, not until you're familiar enough with the list enough to start tweaking.

I was testing LGSI (no SB's) yesterday with a friend playing Dragon Stompy. That is a pretty rough matchup! I would put it at 60/40, although we only played about 12 games. Depends a lot who is on the play and how good the hand you keep is. Sometimes you will have a decent hand, but maybe not enough to warrant going off so you have to 'risk' passing turn and hoping they don't lay down a Trinisphere. From memory here are some games:

Me: Turn 1 Storm on the play
Him: Turn 1 Trinisphere, beat down
Me: Turn 1 Cabal for Trinisphere (hit it), go off 2 turns later
Him: Turn 1 Chalice for Zero, theoretically we can get around it (Belcher), but I didn't. Another game I let all my zero artifacts be countered so build up threshold, got a Cabal Ritual into Draw4 off, but alas I fizzled.
Me: Turn 1 Belcher on the play
Him: Turn 1 Blood Moon, I Storm two turns later. Blood Moon doesn't hurt us that much depending on your hand.

Trinisphere > Chalice @ 0 > Blood Moon. If they Trinisphere before you go off, you've basically lost IMO. It makes it quite an intense matchup, as you're both mulliganing aggressively. We were both surprised how quick LGSI could be however when played balls to the wall. I recommend testing a matchup like this because it will teach you to mull hard, and go off asap, as opposed to playing a non-disruptive aggro deck which is almost a bye. I'm interested in testing post-SB where I can bring in the man-plan and see what happens.

Anyone else got thoughts/experience vs. Stompy decks?

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Originally Posted by Swordfish

and to contribute to thread a bit, i see that some people are overloading their SB with "man-plan". When you SB out 8 cards for 8 mans, your comboing potential lowers significantly and things like Phylactery Lich aren't strong enough - people will probably keep swords for Xantid Swarm anyway...

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True but as above you might only man-plan against decks where combo'ing off is very difficult, thus you at least have another avenue to victory. If they have no hate/disruption, just keep MD as is. And if they have swords, they will probably swords the Xantid Swarm, not realising you have beefier men incoming. At least I assume that is the theory. You might lose game 2 and can go back to Combo Turn 1 in Game 3.

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Originally Posted by TheSleeper

DukeDemonKn1ght - I'd probably just stick to the Land Grant SI list in Vacrix primer. No need to weaken Belcher by adding a Dryad Arbor, not until you're familiar enough with the list enough to start tweaking.

I was testing LGSI (no SB's) yesterday with a friend playing Dragon Stompy. That is a pretty rough matchup! I would put it at 60/40, although we only played about 12 games. Depends a lot who is on the play and how good the hand you keep is. Sometimes you will have a decent hand, but maybe not enough to warrant going off so you have to 'risk' passing turn and hoping they don't lay down a Trinisphere.

Trinisphere > Chalice @ 0 > Blood Moon. If they Trinisphere before you go off, you've basically lost IMO. It makes it quite an intense matchup, as you're both mulliganing aggressively. We were both surprised how quick LGSI could be however when played balls to the wall. I recommend testing a matchup like this because it will teach you to mull hard, and go off asap, as opposed to playing a non-disruptive aggro deck which is almost a bye. I'm interested in testing post-SB where I can bring in the man-plan and see what happens.

Anyone else got thoughts/experience vs. Stompy decks?

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I would imagine that if you're running the version with maindeck Burning Wish, you could get around it pretty easily, wishing for Shattering Spree, Meltdown, etc. You might want to test that version as well.

Here's my conundrum though, on a different note: I'm starting to think that I'd like to splash both red and green in this deck. Basically, the main cards I want access to are Burning Wish, Xantid Swarm, Empty the Warrens, and Autumn's Veil. (Obviously Wish and ETW are the only two of those that I would run in the main.) I'm thinking Tinder Wall also at least deserves testing, in a list that's using both colors. It's hard to figure out the best way to work the mana base though. And if I can't make a mana-base that supports two splash colors, I basically have to give up. Obviously Land Grant doesn't really work out, because I'd have to run Taiga in order to get red mana with it. And I'm thinking non-black duals don't really cut it. I'm thinking It would probably require 6-8 lands maindeck. Seems to me the options are either duals and fetches or duals and Gemstone Mine. Not sure which is better.

Is it just asking for too much to expect the mana-base to work with two splash colors, or do y'all think I could work it out? Does Gemstone Mine seem like a good option? Or should I go for fetches, since they will thin the deck?

EDIT: If I needed more rainbow lands and didn't want to take City of Brass pain, I could probably also run 1-2 Undiscovered Paradise, since the drawback is pretty negligible if you don't give a shit about making land drops and want the game to be over this turn or the next one.

I'm running a manabase of 3 Verdant Catacombs, 1 Underground Sea, 1 Badlands and 1 Bayou, and so far it worked out quite nice. Underground Sea because of mainboard Meditate and Diminishing Returns / Slithermuse (not sure which of them I want to play in the long run). Sea is usually the first land I fetch. For reference, my list:

//Lands
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs

//Creatures
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Kobolds Of Kher Keep
4 Simian Spirit Guide

//Spells
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Chrome Mox
4 Cruel Bargain
4 Culling The Weak
4 Dark Ritual
1 Diminishing Returns / Slithermuse
3 Infernal Contract
2 Infernal Tutor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Meditate
2 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Empty The Warrens

//Sideboard
3 Autumn's Veil
1 Deathmark
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Duress / Thoughtseize
1 Empty The Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Infernal Contract
1 Meltdown
1 Reverent Silence
1 Shattering Spree
1 Tendrils Of Agony
2 Xantid Swarm

So far I love mainboard Diminishing Returns. The card I'm least happy with is definitely mainboard Empty The Warrens. Maybe I'll cut it for another Infernal Tutor or another Tendrils, but I'm not sure, deserves more testing.
And about Dragon Stompy / Chalice Aggro in general. I hate the matchup. It seems like they're always opening with Trinisphere or double Chalice against me. I think Faerie Stompy is our worst Matchup postboard. They have Cahalice, Trinisphere, Force and a guite fast clock.
Dragon Stompy is much easier, since you can just go off on the play.

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Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght

If I were to cut the Dryad Arbor, what do you think would be best? Slithermuse? Second Ill-Gotten Gains?

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Can't say really - I often have a 59-card deck with a fluctuating slot - e.g. a second IGG when expecting to see a lot of discard, another Belcher if I expect anti-storm cards like Ethersworn Canonist, a singleton Death Wish if I'm wary of something that'll singlehandedly win if unanswered but not enough to do some actual sideboarding...

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Also, I completely see what you mean about the sideboard... I think one-dimensional is a good way of describing the problem. There are a couple options I can think of to get a better sideboard. Probably the most compelling would be to replace Cabal Therapy with Burning Wish and have a silver-bullet style sideboard: Deathmark, Meltdown, etc.

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Adding red for Wishes and at least 1 maindecked EtW is certainly an option. If you like the thought of a silver bullet sideboard but aren't willing to make as many concessions for it, 1-2 Death Wishes allow you to keep playing the Land Grant version. Giving up a lot of sideboard space for 1-2 Wishes may seem odd, but SI arguably doesn't need much of a regular sideboard anyway.
Even Living Wish may work - you have several efficient-but-situational win conditions at your disposal, various destroy-x creatures, a high-end draw effect in Slithermuse and protection in the form of Xantid Swarm.

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Another thing I've been thinking of is potentially replacing Phyrexian Walker with maindeck Xantid Swarm, but I have the feeling I'd have to somehow add more green mana to the deck... Also, Swarm is kind of a shitty culling target (since you don't gain as much acceleration from it.)

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Tried this and was... less than impressed with it. This applies to both replacing robots and running them in addition in a Glimpse-heavy list.

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Even if I keep the maindeck the way it is, I think the sideboard needs work. Does anyone have any tech they want to share? Also, out of the cards I listed as potential sideboard options, which are too good not to use, and which can fall by the wayside?

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I don't like Autumn's Veil very much because it's a little limited. Unlike Chant or Swarms, it doesn't help against Chant, Stifle, Mindbreak Trap. I also don't like removal unless I can tutor up the right one (without throwing my hand away...); losing because I got the wrong answer instead of a random threat means I shot myself in the foot.

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Originally Posted by the resurrection

Sideboardplans:
U-based decks: -4 Cabal ritual -1 Wild Cantor + 1 Dosan, the falling leaf +4 Carpet flowers
Thoughts: Playing pact in SI is the same dilemma as in LEDdredge; you will board it out g2 and g3 and replace it with Swarm or aggressive creatures. With 4 Morphose and 4 Carpet Flowers we should be able to cast Dosan, which is a must counter for every u.deck. Dosan has also protection from spell snare and spell pierce and forces the opponent, if he cannot counter him to cast problematic STP and bolts. Produce a lot of mana and try to trick the opponent.

Aggro loam/ Stax:
Game1: win the dice roll
Game2: +3 Oxidize +1 Naturalize + 1Uktabi Orangutan + 1 ESG + 3 Lands -4 Lotus Petal -1 IGG -1 EW - 1 Belcher - 1Pact -1 Chrome mox
Thoughts: They will take mulligan to chalice. We don't know if they cast them with [1] or [0] counters.
[0]: Lay down your lands and try to get access to [Draw4] Oxidize.
[1]: pact-> Orangutan
Game3: + 1 ESG + 1 Uktabi Orangutan -1 Cantor - 1 Witness
Thoughts: Try to cast Mox, Petal, Lands and wait for business or get the perfect hand

I went on a small tournament today to test the deck and it's sideboard. 15 persons, 4 rounds.

Zoo
Game 1. I don't know what he's playing, but he expects burn (I played it last time). I won the dice roll and mulled to 5--> Land, D.Ritual, Mox,IGG, Belcher.
Keep--> turn 1 belcher. he nacatl. Turn 2 draw LED :smile:--> He (at 2 Life) casts a Teeg, playing Lighning Helix, and beat me to 4 life. I found the 3rd Mana in the last moment and killed him for 35.
Game 2. He begins with Nacatl again. I fear Teeg/Thorn and begin with draw 4 -->10 Life --> pass. He beats me down to 4 life again, I found IT and managed Tendrils for 20 Life. Note: without Cantor(pact) wouldn't that be possible

Bant with CB, without Survival and NO
Game1. Because everyone in the room knows that I'm playing >Belcher<, he takes mulligan to force. I kept a hand with a lot of startmana and 2 Draw4s. He begins with top.
During 10- 15 Turn's (arbor beat him to 13 Life:tongue:!) I tried to built up a solid manabase (collectiing rituals, IT and draw4's). Because he doesn't really know my deck he wastes his counters on the startmana, in hope to draw his CB's (Top is online). At 3 Life I made around 15 mana, played around his counters and Tendrils him for 28.
Game2. Played around his counters and killed him Turn 5 or 6

Goblins R/G
A bye matchup. I know that I would facing Gobbos.
Game1. I don't know what I've done.Won the dice roll and hold that hand: Land grant, 3 draw4,3 manamorphose. I played Land grant Turn 1--> pass-->waste--> EPIC FAIL
Game2 on the play, mull to 6 killed him Turn 3 via IGG before his creatures would overrun me.
Game3 he begins and I draw a storm 9 hand. The next 3 turns I drew useless Draw4s and a turn later the last piece of my combo. I play LED he response on IT with Grip, l0l. GG

Dreadstill !!!, yeah
Game 1: I fear a lot of counters. He begins and take mulligan to counters and plays seat of synod. I drew that hand: 3 D.Ritual, morphose, pact, LED. Keep. Draw IT. Alll in, because it will be become certainly much worse each turn-->tried to trick him. I play IT in the end and he response with spell snare (his only counter)...
Game 2. Tons of counter and hate cards,18 counters, 3 waste, 3 balance, 2 explosives, lands and draw

In the end bad Opp. Score and misses a wasteland.

I will cut Morphose and put them to the SB, because they are really hard to master. You don't know what you have if they are on your hand, on the other side they are nice with EW and draw4s. Morphose will be 3 therapy and 1 ESG. I will board them against Bye-matchups, combo and stax.
Cantor was always a free slot, but today he surprised me and won me 2 games. Store mana, change color, get threshhold or Storm 2 for free with pact are in my opinion to good.

@ everyone I know that my english is bad:cool:
@Vacrix
I tested S.Muse. In combination with IT/LED (Turn 1-2) great, but most of the time just a weaker Meditate. If Muse would be black I would certainly play it, but the fish is blue and makes you more dependent on Morphose/Cantor/Petal

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I have no problems with people playing IGG over Slithermuse. Just know that I prefer Slithermuse at the moment.

Wasn't Odious Trow redundant w/ MD Cantor?

Also, I really like the idea of boarding in Dosan and keeping Summoner's Pact. How well does it work? Sinking 3 mana looks a little hard unless you have Carpet of Flowers.

The other idea I had, which could be cheaper if incorporated correctly would be Pact-->Xantid Swarm.. if we could somehow give it haste. On a similar note of random creatures to fetch out with Summoner's Pact, it occurred to me the other day that Pact + LED --> Groundbreaker. It gives you some reach against control if your opponent screws you out of your tokens with EE.

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Originally Posted by TheSleeper

Anyone else got thoughts/experience vs. Stompy decks?

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With SITES, Burning Wish into removal or just go for a fast win.
With QSI, board in your extra lands and then cantrip into post-board Rebuilds.
With PSI, win before you have to deal with their shit. Sometimes you have the resources to play through Chalice @ 0 or 1.
With LGSI, play the man plan or win fast.

"Goblins R/G
A bye matchup. I know that I would facing Gobbos.
Game1. I don't know what I've done.Won the dice roll and hold that hand: Land grant, 3 draw4,3 manamorphose. I played Land grant Turn 1--> pass-->waste--> EPIC FAIL
Game2 on the play, mull to 6 killed him Turn 3 via IGG before his creatures would overrun me.
Game3 he begins and I draw a storm 9 hand. The next 3 turns I drew useless Draw4s and a turn later the last piece of my combo. I play LED he response on IT with Grip, l0l. GG"

g3: he cannot respond IT with Grip, because you dont pass the priority back to him. It goes: IT--> priority continues with you--> crack LED.

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His play is not possible, you MUST keep priority after playing IT in order to sac LED, if you don't keep it, opponent doesn't need grip, he just says ok and your IT resolves without saccing LED.

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Thank you guys. Nice to know. He responded with Grip after I played pact, sry. But I failed anyway XD, but the next time I'm prepared

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Wasn't Odious Trow redundant w/ MD Cantor?

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No. Both creatures have different roles. Trow is the 2nd Ctw target after Arbor or the 1st after Bayou, he gets imprinted by mox and gives you addional storm if you have just B in your pool, or (I'am testing now) as an addional discard effect if therapy is in the grave. Cantor is 3rd Ctw target or the 2nd after Bayou->Trow, change G into B (I made around 100 goldfishes and I needed this effect about 10-13%), creates addional storm (with IGG) without wasting a manasource, getting threshhold or he saves mana

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Also, I really like the idea of boarding in Dosan and keeping Summoner's Pact. How well does it work? Sinking 3 mana looks a little hard unless you have Carpet of Flowers.

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Morphose will help you to get GG. The dosan boarding plan works against decks that play just 8 counters. Get the combo and trick them or collect enough mana and throw out "Chant". Against Dreadstill I wasn't able to do something, while I crushed the deck g2 and g3 in the past via Urami, Tombstalker. But this SBplan is still in work.

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The other idea I had, which could be cheaper if incorporated correctly would be Pact-->Xantid Swarm.. if we could somehow give it haste.

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One year ago I did the same. I've looked for every green/black/red cards to give swarm haste XD... I found nothing.

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On a similar note of random creatures to fetch out with Summoner's Pact, it occurred to me the other day that Pact + LED --> Groundbreaker. It gives you some reach against control if your opponent screws you out of your tokens with EE.

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With the full playsets of ESG and Morphose an intresting option, but a creature that is much more intresting is Uktabi-Sceada. He's a funny stormengine. Play pact-> Sceada-> attack--> Now you have made 3 virtual spells !!! Culling target and another funny thing: make Tendrils for 9, draw pact next turn and cast him (just kidding, but this might work in RL)

How do you board then against U.dec if you want to add the Carpets? I usually board out Pact for Carpet.

Uktabi Drake actually looks pretty sexy. The fact that it adds +1 virtual storm might make it a pretty good outlet for a sticky situation. I think, though, that he will be pretty hard to use IRL. Switching between phases is going to make floating mana more difficult, especially if you want to attack with it before you play Culling the Weak for the extra virtual storm copy.

So, any thoughts from anyone whether it would be viable to try to make a :b::r::g: manabase work? The idea would be to be able to splash for all the bombs: namely Burning Wish (and a little sideboard suite to go with it), Xantid Swarm, Autumn's Veil, and probably also some number of Empty the Warrens. Tinder Wall might also be worth exploring...

I was thinking that Gemstone Mine might be a good way to try to make this feasible. Probably running 6-8 lands. Do y'all think this would be feasible, or would I just be too prone to color screw? (Advice from someone with some experience playing this deck please. Help!)

A while back I played SSG over Chrome Mox. If you are looking to build a glasshouse, then it might look something like this:

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Business (15)
1 Slithermuse
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Contract
4 Cruel Bargain

Mana (45)
1 Tinderwall
1 Wild Cantor
4 Manamorphose
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Taiga
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor

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Its a little business light.

I think that the Rainbow lands plan is weak. Having access to fetches opens you up to the possibility of Dryad Arbor. As you can probably see, there aren't too many initial black sources. I switched out Chrome Mox for SSG. It works, and you have slightly more Daze protection, but you really need that Wild Cantor in there to color fix for black. Also, it completely foregoes IT for BW. I tested something like this a while back and it worked pretty well. I don't think its as good as the others lists to be honest, but give that a go and see if you like it. I'd tweak something along those lines before trying the traditional tallman builds. They just don't have the flexibility that PSI does.

Picked up PSI after talking with Vacrix at the last Knightware.
Really pleased with the deck so far, the biggest hurdle for me to figure out so far has been to either run fetches or land grant.

Grant being a spell makes it alot easier to get hellbent for infernal, where as i have had some awkward draws where fetches have kept me off it. Any thoughts on this ? I have considered a split but that just seems redundant and wrong, i figure i should pick and stay with one or the other.

In addition I like experimenting with 2 xantid in the main, i really feel that it gives you the ability to craft a hand that you may have otherwise had to go all in on. An example as to my current preference for fetches comes from the often crafty play of fetching for my bayou to play swarm, my opponents when not familiar with the fact that i am storm will often put me on rogue and let swam sit, which buys all the time in the world to craft a beautiful hand.
My current list

Land
4 x Verdant Catacombs
2 x Bayou
1 x Dryad Arbor

Mana
4 x Lotus Petal
4 x ESG
4 x Summoners Pact
4 x Dark Ritual
4 x Cabal Ritual
4 x Culling the Weak
4 x Chrome Mox
4 x LED

Business
4 x Cruel Bargain
4 x Infernal Contract
4 x Infernal Tutor
1 x Eternal Witness
1 x Odious Trow/Wild Cantor - Havent been able to nail down which is better for me
2 x Manamorphose
2 x Xantid Swarm
1 x Slithermuse
2 x Tendrils of Agony

Was going to make a new thread for this since I feel it's a bit different from SI but here's my list I've been testing on and off the past few weeks

// Lands
11 [PT] Swamp (4)

// Creatures
4 [AL] Shield Sphere
4 [VI] Phyrexian Walker
1 [R] Ornithopter

// Spells
4 [4E] Dark Ritual
4 [EX] Culling the Weak
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [V09] Lotus Petal
2 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
3 [PS] Diabolic Intent
4 [ARE] Duress

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [5E] Nevinyrral's Disk
SB: 3 [M10] Deathmark
SB: 3 [FUT] Pact of Negation
SB: 2 [UD] Powder Keg
SB: 3 [RAV] Dark Confidant
SB: 1 [M11] Deathmark

Pretty much it's been really cool so far for me. It doesn't play any splash colors I designed it that way so it's impossible to scoop to Wasteland/Stifle. It's also extremely fast.

Why 11 Swamps?, even the fetchland lists only play 6 orso lands.

Worked for me with 11 Swamps my initial list ran 12 but I cut it down to 11 to fit in the full set of Duress. It also helps against control to be able to make a couple few land drops as oposed to trying to burn out your resources just to get mana to play spells. Since I don't run Pact I can't tutor for mana either.

Very strange build. How do the four of AdN + double ToA work together? Don't you lose to bad flips from time to time?