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I'd certainly read and post in a Vintage subforum. I'd also play if there were reasonable proxy tournaments in the Seattle area.
It confuses me why there is no Vintage subforum yet, but there is a Modern subforum. I would expect that most Sourcers identify more closely with Vintage than they do Modern.
I'd love to have a vintage forum on the site. Whoever said ny is the best never played at knightware.
He meant it is the best for availability of tournaments, which he is completely right.Quote:
Originally Posted by csy
I don't think there is a place on Earth where every single weekend there is a Vintage tournament available that will almost certainly have ~30 people and be within a 3 hour drive, which is essentially what we have access to here in NY, between us, NJ and PA.
Here on Tuesdays, we start between 6:30-7:00PM. Staff is very friendly, store is cleaner than most with plenty of space.Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
Yeap!Quote:
Originally Posted by ElricTheWhiteWolf
I don't see why not. At the worst it'd be like the Modern subforum where hardly anything happens, so. But like someone else said, Legacy players probably have more in common with Vintage than Modern.
I just learned about Toronto's secret Vintage community and I am actually interested in joining it (I wanna run MUD). I have most of the staples sans the Moxen and Workshop but they do allow proxies.
I would love to learn more about different list/strategies and sideboarding. Also, who knows.
Also the Toronto crew is planning to go to Waterbury this fall and I'd like to see really crazy plays (such as emptying hands of permission trying to resolve a Recall)
Hey, I like the Modern subforum. Actually, I just found out about the Modern subforum. :P
As far as T1 is concerned, I remember briefly becoming interested in it around the time Smemmen was working on Manaless Dredge. I built my own version of the deck but was never able to test it. It had all kinds of cool interactions including a fairly strong SB and a couple of creatures that were very techy MD. I think Caldera lands were somewhere in the mix.
EDIT: and by that I mean, I would casually browse it while I take my brief hiatus from the current degenerate legacy environment.
Yeah so the events in Mississauga seem pretty solid. The host is even willing to loan out decks to people who are interested in playing but do not own the card pool. I would check it out if I were you, Richard is a stand up guy and a very strong Landstill player.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Actually it is in Mississauga. And yes, I think it's Richard (the dude who does Vintage events in his basement). I learned it from the folks during the last Moxen tourney at Teddy N Me south.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar
Dude, are you from Sauga and where do you usually go?
Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Yep Yep. I'm from Boston.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
If you want to read up before the next event...
Primer and Old Primer.
There's a small amount of articles on Star City Games in regards to Workshops but most of the lists are dated. I would pay attention to Matt Elias or Stephen Menendian in regards to articles. For actual lists I would pay attention to Fabian Moyshewitz (Europe), Nick Detwiler (USA), and Raffaele Forino (USA) as they are the most stand out Workshop players in Type 1.
This is an excellent website for Top 8 lists across USA/Europe. It's a great resource for judging meta games and figuring out what you need to run in the board.
Richard and Landstill. Would that be Shockwave? Know him from MTGO. Very cool dude even offered to lend me almost any Legacy deck If I was going to GP Providence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar
Yeap. Pretty much the guy who put Vintage Landstill on the map.Quote:
Originally Posted by menace13
Since there is much plugging for Vintage events, this seems like a good time to point out that there are 2 Vintage events in California this weekend. This one in Norcal and this one in Socal. Come on out if you can! The west coast needs more Vintage love.
LOL That's great! I'm sure I frustrated him with my stupid Elves deck online. My how small a community we have in Eternal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar
I'd be careful a lot of the Landstill lists run EE now, though I believe Shockwave prefers Null Rod still (it's stronger IMHO).Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Nice! Yeah, he jams Standstill in every format forever. Met him playing UR Still in Classic and Legacy events.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar
I was referring to Legacy on MTGO, but it's all the same. Landstill does give me fits however in Vintage. Moreso the Mindbreak Traps and Spell Snares maindeck rather than Standstill. Edit: Fuck you Misdirection!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar
For anyone in the NY area here are the three stores who host a majority of the events...
With a little blurb from Nick D the host:
Long Island is shaped like a fish, with the head being Queens and Brooklyn, the middle section being Nassau County and the back end being Suffolk County. Grim is located in the middle of Suffolk County; not so far out as the Hamptons, but far enough out that you're probably not going to make the trip if you're coming from the Boston area. The events at Comicbook Depot are in the middle of Nassau County - it's a much more reasonable drive. The events at Mark's Comics are on the Queens/Nassau border (thus, the best for our travelers).
Here's contact information for the three stores:
Mark's Comics and Collectibles
291 Central Ave
Valley Stream, N.Y.
(516) 872-5919
The Comicbook Depot
2847 Jerusalem Avenue
Wantagh, NY 11793-2016
(516) 221-9337
Brothers Grim
1244 Middle Country Road
Selden, New York
11784
(631) 698-2805
QFMFT lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
On a completely unrelated note, seeing as this is the defacto Vintage thread until the Vintage forum is established (hopefully),
Thoughts on UB/R Welder-Snap control:
Dark Confidant vs Forbidden Alchemy?
Dark Confidant proved incremental advantage and a decent clock, but is weak against random aggro decks
Forbidden Alchemy digs, removes chaffs off the top, and setups insane Y-Will turns. At the expense of high mana cost. It does make good use of Drain mana in the mid-game, and has built in flash-back.
I would also like to add that for those in the Southern California area, there is a Vintage proxy tournament this Sunday at Knightware.
Link to thread
Admittedly I haven't tried it, but while it sounds good in theory, I worry a bit about the casting cost. I don't think that I'd play it over Bob, but I could see it as 1-2 of. Even though Bob is somewhat fragile, he can provide more card advantage and is good vs. shops, which is a matchup that I suspect Alchemy would be terrible in due to the CMC and not being a creature/artifact. If you are already playing Welders, Baleful Strix is fun. It's card advantage, decent vs. aggro, and can be a house vs. shops. I'm currently trying out ditching snapcasters for welder/strix to see where that leads, but I'll try to test out an Alchemy to see how it plays out since it does appear to have some synergy with Will and welders. Have you done much testing with it? If so, how has it been?Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
I've been rocking this list more or less for 3 months now (linky), and it has been working very well. People always give me a weird glance when I cast it, but then I just setup insane Snapcaster/Welder/Will tricks.Quote:
Originally Posted by aahz
I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of Steve M's list and I haven't been too impressed with a lot of the lists floating around. In addition the viability and utility of Goblin Welder in the current environment is overrated. If you are playing in a field that primarily consists of Workshops and Fish I could see playing a list like the aforementioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
That aside taking into consideration your question I have to side with Dark Confidant simply because of the innocuous utility he provides. The format isn’t very receptive to large all in Yawgmoth’s Will turns, recent printings with things like Flusterstorm, Mindbreak Trap, and Grafdigger’s Cage underscore the issues with total reliance on Will. In addition you are bound to run into splash hate from Dredge if your list is reliant on both Goblin Welder and Forbidden Alchemy. With Dark Confidant you avoid a majority of these issues.
To briefly highlight the redeeming qualities of Dark Confidant:
Permanent based, relevant in the Workshop and Fish matches.
Free card advantage translating into long term tempo gains.
Win condition.
It's also worth noting the utility versus deck space saved you get from running Confidant over a mix of utility spells against Workshops/Fish in addition to the burst card advantage spells.
Seems much better to me.
At the point at which you are considering Forbidden Alchemy, why not Fact or Fiction?
The one mana cheaper is nicer against blue making it less enticing as a Drain target and easier to cast earlier. This was the factor in game-play that I decided FoF was too expensive. Gifts is still nutter butters, but FoF was too slow and provided too much variance for my liking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
At the 4CC slot you get Jace/Gifts and EOT FoF does not end the game like it used to. There are just far superior cards for that slot and there's something to be said about tempo losses with such an expensive engine.
I'm loving this preview :)
I really want the vintage forum to open since our local discussions have mainly consisted of yelling at our village idiot for being an idiot, and worshipping the almighty Lava Dart.
Lava Dart is no joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by bfeingersh
Oh boy, here we go again. It's like it's 2007 all over again!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar
Interesting list. I usually play UBr also but rocking the wizard angle instead (Bob+Snappy+Clique). Bob is super solid almost all the time, though I bounce back and forth between 3 and 4 copies since, like welders, they are sometimes really bad in multiples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Do you ever feel like you are short on permission? I played a few games last night with your same counter configuration (4xFoW, 2xDrain, 2xMisstep, 1xFlusterstorm), but it seemed like it just isn't enough without at least a Thoughtseize/Duress, especially since you don't have Merchant Scroll or Mystical to find a counter in a pinch.
Also, how has the Helm in the side been treating you? I used to do that, but it started seeming too cute to be taking up a sideboard slot. Does having the welders make it that much better than a space for something else?
I wasn't paying attention from 2003-2010, so I can't tell if that's good or bad. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Oh man let me tell you about Lava Dart. I run a UBr Drain Tendrils list and I run Lava Dart for a few reasons...
R = 3 Storm
Aven Mindcensor
Dark Confidant
Delver of Secrets
Goblin Welder
Lotus Cobra
Noble Hierarch
Phyrexian Revoker
Snapcaster Mage
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Vendilion Clique
Xantid Swarm
That's not even counting all the stupid jank you could run into out there like Cold-Eyed Selkie, Goblin Lackey, Gorilla Shaman, Grim Lavamancer, all the Elves, Hermit Druid, etc...
There's an astronomical number of relevant X/2s as well.
Yes I would. I think you would get a lot of the ManaDrain crowd as well.
No interest at all, but scrolling down an extra ~3 threads to see things I am interested in isn't hard at all.
I'm one of the few people who likes Modern, and I'm sure there are a few who like Vintage. Why not put it on the forum?
But honestly, I'd be more interested in Standard, as I could find a tournament for that if I ever wanted to play it.
I'd want this so much. Vintage has always looked incredibly interesting to me, but i have not started playing because of the lack of resources. There's so little on the internet, and most of it is outdated.
(Are there any vintage groups in the DC-MD-VA area?)
Obviously a "Playgroups in Your Area" thread is much needed for Vintage.
I'd post in a vintage subforum!Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Also in response to the above quote... Dark Confidant is usually *good* vs. random aggro since it trades with one of their dudes. Also I dunno how much you have to be worried about "random aggro" in a real vintage tournament. I mean, you probably do have to worry about specific fish decks like Noble Fish or RUG Delver, and sometimes workshop aggro, but actual tuned vintage lists tend to be pretty good against random stuff people throw together.
Consider Forbidden Alchemy is clearly inferior to Thirst for Knowledge. TfK is restricted, but even still, many decks don't run it cause it's too expensive for what it does. Three mana is pretty expensive for a card that cycles and has no ability to provide card advantage. Although there is some precedent in combo decks for cards that just provide digging for combo-pieces: impulse in Oath decks, for example. But the combo has to be strong enough that digging for it is worth the mana+card investment. A deck like Two-Card Monte https://sales.starcitygames.com/deck...p?DeckID=31265 or Steel City Vault http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckd...p?DeckID=29762 might actually want something like forbidden alchemy. But forbidden alchemy shouldn't be considered in place of a card draw engine like Dark Confidant.
... so, bring on the Vintage subforum?
The problem is that there are quite a few "tuned" Vintage Aggro lists that require only minimum Power (typically a Lotus and on-color Mox[en]). Some of them look quite fun, like the mono-white one and the Vintage-Edition of Deadguy Ale.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmcgeach
Vintage forum needs to come sooner, so I can brag about how awesome my deck is. Split in finals of a 13 man, losing only 4 games, each in different matches.
Maybe it's just me but why is there no actual good forums to discuss any of the other formats like Limited? Isn't that just weird?