[Deck] 12 Post

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Originally Posted by mini1337s

Recordings are up:

Turbo Eldrazi vs Reanimator: http://blip.tv/scglive/scg-prov-lgc-...-rosen-6402262
Turbo Eldrazi vs Goblins: http://blip.tv/scglive/scg-prov-lgc-...udolph-6402186
Turbo Eldrazi vs RUG: http://blip.tv/scglive/scg-prov-lgc-...udolph-6402177
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I watched the Reanimator coverage, which was by far my favorite. I love how the 2nd guy calls me out for "taking 3-4 minutes for tutoring" when it has been 40 seconds, and is saying how I have zero plays against Reanimator in my deck when Karakas and Bojuka Bog blow him out, and then finally the guy's mind gets blown when I win it handily.

Commentators. They follow the same logic as cynically stated about teachers, if you can't do, teach.

Also does anyone know what the term "tanking" means? They said it every time I looked with Sensei's Divining Top, no matter how brief.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

I love how the 2nd guy calls me out for "taking 3-4 minutes for tutoring" when it has been 40 seconds, and is saying how I have zero plays against Reanimator in my deck when Karakas and Bojuka Bog blow him out, and then finally the guy's mind gets blown when I win it handily.

Commentators. They follow the same logic as cynically stated about teachers, if you can't do, teach.

Also does anyone know what the term "tanking" means? They said it every time I looked with Sensei's Divining Top, no matter how brief.

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Tanking is going deep into thought.

Also, are you okay? It was almost 4 minutes of nothing with his Reanimate on the stack, not 40 seconds. More like 40 seconds x5

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Originally Posted by menace13

Tanking is going deep into thought.

Also, are you okay? It was almost 4 minutes of nothing with his Reanimate on the stack, not 40 seconds. More like 40 seconds x5

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at 27:50 he announces his targets, I look at sb and fetch at 29:40. Even if you ignore the sideboard check and the over 20 possible plays I had, that's far less than 4 minutes. He calls out "fetching a land" taking 4 minutes after 20 seconds of searching. Hilarious in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

at 27:50 he announces his targets, I look at sb and fetch at 29:40. Even if you ignore the sideboard check and the over 20 possible plays I had, that's far less than 4 minutes. He calls out "fetching a land" taking 4 minutes after 20 seconds of searching. Hilarious in my opinion.

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Umm. it was a 6 minute Reanimate....... on the stack for 6 minutes. It hit the bin after 34:00. You took about 4+ of those minutes had there been a chess clock.

Why is this argument happening?

Where's the "this mono-green list [insert list here] is not only budget friendly but can also do well in a meta dominated with [insert decks here]"?

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Originally Posted by menace13

Umm. it was a 6 minute Reanimate....... on the stack for 6 minutes. It hit the bin after 34:00. You took about 4+ of those minutes had there been a chess clock.

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The whole thing took 6 minutes. Now, two of that was taken up by Drew, through the searching, choosing targets etc. I'm pretty sure that Rock could have played slightly faster, but most of the decisions that turn took l;ess than 30 seconds, except the choosing of targets for the first FStorm, which took 45. I get the impression that Rock plays ponderously.

Anyone ever tried Crucible of Worlds in their list, for some recurring Glacial Chasm shenanigans?

Imagine never having to pay 2 life for it's Cumulative Upkeep cost.....

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Originally Posted by SBGpinas

Anyone ever tried Crucible of Worlds in their list, for some recurring Glacial Chasm shenanigans?

Imagine never having to pay 2 life for it's Cumulative Upkeep cost.....

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Please refer to the development thread where mono-green lists and crucible are discussed ad nauseum.

Hi, could you maybe give a quick rundown of your SBin plans for the major archetypes? Gonna play this at our Sunday Legacy tomorrow, and honestly, so far I've only boarded with my gut instinct.

Hey Rock Lee

How do you beat Fish? It seems to be a bad match up. Disruption and fast beats. That's my only loss last Thursday Legacy went 3-1 :) Deck is fun lol

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

I watched the Reanimator coverage, which was by far my favorite. I love how the 2nd guy calls me out for "taking 3-4 minutes for tutoring" when it has been 40 seconds, and is saying how I have zero plays against Reanimator in my deck when Karakas and Bojuka Bog blow him out, and then finally the guy's mind gets blown when I win it handily.

Commentators. They follow the same logic as cynically stated about teachers, if you can't do, teach.

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For more in depth, here is the time frame we're talking about:

Reanimate hits the board: 27:37
You look at SB (I assume): 28:47- 29:06
Cracks fetch: 29:39
"" fetches trop. island: 30:03
Commentators comment about the "3-4" minute fetching: 30:24

Im sorry, but since when is the difference between 29:39-30:03, 3-4 minutes?


Now, to my point, What made you decide to try this deck originally?

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Originally Posted by blindspotxxx

Hey Rock Lee

How do you beat Fish? It seems to be a bad match up. Disruption and fast beats. That's my only loss last Thursday Legacy went 3-1 :) Deck is fun lol

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Fish meaning Merfolk? Elephant Grass destroys them and they lose to Primeval Titan.

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Originally Posted by kavaki

What made you decide to try this deck originally?

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Eye of Ugin intrigued me so I played a build with cloudpost and vesuva with 4x Candelabras that would power out sundering titan. It was super bad, but it meant that when Emrakul got spoiled I immediately jumped on the idea of a combo-control deck that relied on sacrificing early tempo and control for late-game dominance.

I always love playing control in nearly every format and even in other games, but Legacy didn't have a "true" control deck at the time like U/W Miracles. So I tried to make a control deck that controlled by inevitability and ability to ignore most threats.

So, I did pretty well with Rock Lees list yesterday -1 Revoker +1 Elephant Grass. Took 3rd place at my locals and won an artist altered Polluted Delta.

MUs were UW Miracles (2-0), Team America (2-1), Omniscience (0-2), Reanimator (2-0) and Esperblade (2-0). Omniscience is really rough.

I tried to repeal Omniscience with Defense Grid in play, but he had the REB and I couldn't Flusterstorm because of the Grid. Otherwise I'd had taken an Emrakul hit and probably gone infinite/close to infinite on my turn (I showed in Primeval Titan). But it feels like a really rough MU, unfortunately the deck is rather popular in my area.

Rest of the meta was pretty much a cakewalk. My only loss from Team America was from him having Decay for my Needle, Wasteland to slow me down, double Goyf and a counter for my Elephant Grass.

If anyone is interested in a more detailed writeup say so and I'll try to remember what I can.

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Originally Posted by Philipp2293

So, I did pretty well with Rock Lees list yesterday -1 Revoker +1 Elephant Grass. Took 3rd place at my locals and won an artist altered Polluted Delta.

MUs were UW Miracles (2-0), Team America (2-1), Omniscience (0-2), Reanimator (2-0) and Esperblade (2-0). Omniscience is really rough.

I tried to repeal Omniscience with Defense Grid in play, but he had the REB and I couldn't Flusterstorm because of the Grid. Otherwise I'd had taken an Emrakul hit and probably gone infinite/close to infinite on my turn (I showed in Primeval Titan). But it feels like a really rough MU, unfortunately the deck is rather popular in my area.

Rest of the meta was pretty much a cakewalk. My only loss from Team America was from him having Decay for my Needle, Wasteland to slow me down, double Goyf and a counter for my Elephant Grass.

If anyone is interested in a more detailed writeup say so and I'll try to remember what I can.

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Sorry about slowness about getting back to you on specifics on sideboarding. I was at a marathon of double-tournaments this weekend and only got back late last night.

Grats on your showing. If Omnishow is popular in your area just increase your venser count to 3-4 and they can't beat you.


I ended up throwing my Top 8 chances at Jupiter, with the deck giving me exactly what I needed and me just fritting it away.

Sunday Oct 22 I went X-1 at Hartsdale in the Swiss and Split the Top 4 when my teammate Scott Hughes who is also playing Turbo Eldrazi was paired with me in Top 4. So Turbo Eldrazi took 50$ of the total prize in that event. A special kind of win!

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Fish meaning Merfolk? Elephant Grass destroys them and they lose to Primeval Titan.



Eye of Ugin intrigued me so I played a build with cloudpost and vesuva with 4x Candelabras that would power out sundering titan. It was super bad, but it meant that when Emrakul got spoiled I immediately jumped on the idea of a combo-control deck that relied on sacrificing early tempo and control for late-game dominance.

I always love playing control in nearly every format and even in other games, but Legacy didn't have a "true" control deck at the time like U/W Miracles. So I tried to make a control deck that controlled by inevitability and ability to ignore most threats.

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Yeah but you know they have aether vial for pumpage, islandwalk, wasteland and counter magic. Such a terrible matchup :cry:

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Originally Posted by blindspotxxx

Yeah but you know they have aether vial for pumpage, islandwalk, wasteland and counter magic. Such a terrible matchup :cry:

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Of all the aggro matchups I would consider Merfolk the worst, but still positive. Yes all the statements you make are true, but they cave to Show & Tell more than any other matchup, elephant grass prevents even more damage than most decks due to mutavault shutdown, and they run zero removal for Pithing Needle unlike all other aggro decks. Their counters are often limited to Daze and Force. If you play to these strengths and keep according hands, the matchup is easily in the positive.

So, short report from yesterday.

Round 1 against UW Miracles:

G1: I sit across an unfamiliar face and ask him where he's from and if he's a longtime player, and he says that it's his first legacy tournament. I'm not too happy that I might face some wacky deck round 1 or burn or something. He opens on Tundra and Top. Nice. I make a top myself too and since it resolves I'm in really good shape. He has counterbalance lock next turn, I do nothing but drop Lands, he does also nothing since its Miracles. I attempt Show and Tell with Titan in hand, top finds him nothing, he forces. Next turn I retry the next Show, with help of fetches he finds the an Entreat for Balance. Next turn I hardcast Ulamog, which blows up balance. He doesn't have removal in hand or in his top 3, so he scoops to Ulamog attack.
do
G2: Again we both open on Top, but this time he stalls on 2 Lands, one of them a Karakas, so I crop rotate for my own to basically take him out of the game. His first brainstorm doesn't find him anything, after he draw-discards two times I flusterstorm his next Brainstorm and have an Emrakul soon afterwards.

Round 2 against Team America:

G1: This guy is a very familiar face and a really nice guy. He's usually on Death and Taxes, but before the event he was asking people for Delvers and since he played Team America in the past I put him on that. He starts with Delver, while I open with Needle on Wasteland. He soon finds an Abrupt Decay for the Needle, but fortunately only one Wasteland before I find my second Needle. I play a Top, Delver gets repealed, but I frown as he sticks a Sylvan Library at pretty high life. Soon enough Delver plus Goyfs pressure me. I map for Chasm, then drop a Titan. Despite the double Glimmposts it found me I'm on pretty low life. As he attacks with double Goyf I have to block with Titan, since I'm dead to a Decay on me Needle since he sits with Wasteland in play. He dismembers my Titan, but has no out for Needle. Next turn I cast Emrakul, to my attack he sacks Lands and blocks with Delver, so he still has double Goyf and Library in play, with 1 card left in Hand. I cast Kozilek which draws me Repeal for the 2nd Goyf and his last Goyf can't punch through for lethal.

G2: I open on coloured mana, some posts, Needle, Brainstorm and Elephant Grass. Sounds good......on paper. He has pretty good hand: Needle gets decayed, lands get wasted, Grass and Brainstorm countered, I'm dead to double Goyf within like 4 minutes.

G3: We have only 7 minutes left on the clock, so I reboard my Show and Tells. I resolve it for Titan while drops Tombstalker and he already has Delver in play. He plays Needle on Eye and double blocks with Stalker and Delver. We enter the extra turn with me at 27 life. Unfortunately I don't draw anything relevant from the top, but convince him to scoop to me since I think I can crush the rest of the decks except for the Omniscience decks.

Round 3 against Omniscience:

G1: I know what he's on and figure I can only win G1 if he is stupid and drops anything that's not Omniscience. Turns out he isn't.

G2: We both durdle around. At one point I have Flusterstorm, Titan, Eye of Ugin and Repeal in hand, while he has Defense Grid in play. If I get another turn I drop the Eye I've been hiding from him and cast Emrakul. He opens with Overmaster which I let resolves into Show and Tell. He makes Omniscience, I make Titan. Unfortunately I'm mana short to Repeal with Titan trigger on the stack, so I have to let the trigger resolves and get moar posts. He casts Emrakul, I try to Repeal in response, he has the REB and I can't Flusterstorm due to the Defense Grid. At this point I was so high on permanents that I could have taken the Emrakul hit and gone infinite on my next turn.

Round 4 against Reanimator:

G1 & G2: Since I get paired down and he can't get into prices anymore he scoops to me. We play it out for fun and I 2-0, opening on Karakas both games, but I played really sloppy as in most just for fun games in between more serious matches, so I'll spare you the details.

Round 5 against Esperblade:

G1: He's a teammate, we both know what each other is on, and we both know he can't possibly win. G1 he durdles with Stoneforge Mystic. I hardcast Emrakul turn 4.
G2: He gets some early Clique beats in, I Show and Tell for Titan and have the Flusterstorm for his Counterspell. Titan enters and it's over soon afterwards.

Looking forward I'm probably gonna replace the Revokers with more Venser's like Rock suggested. Other top tables looked like Cakewalks (Maverick, Nic Fit.....you get the picture).

On a sidenote: Team America seems to be in nice shape with Abrupt Decay.

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Originally Posted by Philipp2293

So, short report from yesterday.

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Some ideas Phillipp.

Against U/W Miracles, In game 2 if you use vesuva to legend kill Karakas, you keep your own in library, and against U/W Miracles you don't need the vesuvax4 as much as you would if you needed Glacial Chasms.

Against Team America, In game 1 if you hadn't map'd for Glacial Chasm you could have tutored it up with Primeval titan and not had to block, putting you in a very strong situation.

Against Omnishow, In game 1, if you get Glimmerposts with Primeval Titan, you put another trigger on the stack (the lifegain) that you can then respond to by repealing. Also against Omnishow, I find that if I counter Overmaster they will hold back more often than not. It also puts them down a card and enables you to Fluster their Show & Tell right afterwards if you have it.

Lastly, if you are worried about legend killing shenanigans and weakness against MuD/Mirror, you can go 2x Venser, Shaper Savant and 2x Spine of Ish Sah, which both Trump Omnishow, but have added utility in other matches.

Thanks, those are good points you put regarding both Vesuva and the Glimmerpoint Lifegain trigger, absolutely didn't consider that. As for the game against Team America, I've had the Chasm in play and found the Titan afterwards with top after I've payed twice for chasm already.

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Originally Posted by Philipp2293

Thanks, those are good points you put regarding both Vesuva and the Glimmerpoint Lifegain trigger, absolutely didn't consider that. As for the game against Team America, I've had the Chasm in play and found the Titan afterwards with top after I've payed twice for chasm already.

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I gotcha, then no vesuva (Glacial Chasm copy) + Glimmerpost off the titan? I often let my titans sit around for a few turns if I'm in an advantageous position even without attacking. especially if you faced double-blocks, it seems like a stronger position. Lets you build up a larger Locus count and even with a waste he can't swing back.

By the way, how do you guys determine which starting hand you hold and when to mulligan?

What has to be on your hand to say that it won't work out and are there any cards that MUST be on your starting hand?

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Originally Posted by Seirei

By the way, how do you guys determine which starting hand you hold and when to mulligan?

What has to be on your hand to say that it won't work out and are there any cards that MUST be on your starting hand?

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Hand keeping is the most important skill with this deck. It is the reason that I suggest heavy playtesting for someone who wants to have success with the deck at competitive events. My best simple guide to hand keeping would best be put as a priority of axioms and some general rules. I'll probably put this on the first page since it is so important to piloting the deck well.

Don't keep hands without turn 1-2 plays.
- The deck runs 21 cmc 1 spells on turn 1. Often you are clearing the counter-wall path for a crop rotation to resolve later, so don't be afraid of throwing spells into dazes and pierces early on if you have more relevant spells after them. My priority of willingness-to-get-countered in the early game is from lowest importance to greatest: Candelabra -> Pithing Needle -> Map -> Brainstorm -> Sensei's Divining Top -> Crop Rotation. As the game progresses those priorities shift, but for the purpose of opening hands I keep the more I have of cards on the higher importance group, with a caveat of multiple crop rotations not being strong.

Don't keep hands that require you to be unmolested for several turns in regards to discard/destruction.
- Have faith in the deck. I will often keep hands of 5-6 lands if there are Cloudposts in them or if the remaining 1-2 cards are strong cmc 1 spells like Brainstorm, SDT, or Crop rotation.

Keeping hands with Eldrazis in them are essentially mulligans to X-y, where X is your hand size, and y is the number of Eldrazis in your hand.
- This is not true of Primeval titans, since they are castable on turn 3 with candelabras and normal conditions, or on turn 5-6 under duress.

Don't keep hands on Show & Tell.
- Show & Tell is your plan B, not plan A. Plan A is sit around, not be pressured due to repeal/bog/karakas/Hatecards doing their jobs, and then casting your stuff. Show and Tell can be a supplement to your hand, but it should never be its primary goal and only avenue.

Don't be afraid of having Cloudposts get wastelanded early.
- I will often play Cloudpost on the blind my first turn if possible if I don't have a needle or crop rotation, since it means that they MUST wasteland it that turn or fear me drawing into more answers. Most importantly, it means they cannot develop delvers/heirarchs/vials/lackeys. Hesitating with this deck can easily cause you to lose matches you would otherwise crush.
- Keep in mind that this logic is turned on itself when on the draw, where they can play their Turn 1 board advancement, and then wasteland your tapped Cloudpost while maintaining pressure.

Keep hands entirely differently based off playing or drawing.
- One of your best cards on the play is Repeal, but it becomes one of the worst on the draw.
- Against a blind opponent Pithing needle is weak on the play, but strong on the draw. The opposite is true against a known opponent.
- SDT is amazing on the play, but weaker on the draw. Despite it being weaker on the draw, it is still one of your strongest turn 1 plays.
- Hate lands, such as Tabernacle, Bog, Karakas, are stronger on the draw after they commit. Obviously Glacial chasm is weaker on the draw due to needing two land drops.

Dangerous and Risky keeps
- Low mana hands are your most dangerous keeps. they MUST have either multiple SDT's and/or brainstorms, with a clear path to additional mana and/or shuffle effects for increasing your odds of drawing mana should you see none.
- All colorless mana source (this includes bog/karakas) hands are dangerous if you have brainstorms and repeals as your only cantrips. Despite this, Vesuva, Expedition Map, SDT, and actual colored sources as outs are an extensive list of outs, so I list this hand as not dangerous.
- All colored mana source hands are not risky at all. Crop rotations can easily convert 4 colored mana sources into a Primeval titan, or 7 mana for eye of Ugin.
- Keeping complex hands are ok. Keeping a hand of Trop, Brainstorm, Brainstorm, Crop Rotation, Crop rotation, X, X is ok if you are on the play, and riskier on the draw, but not the end of the world thalia/Chalice-withstanding. In this situation you brainstorm their eot, keeping Crop rotation up at all times for a response to wasteland, brainstorm eot, if you see nothing you crop rotate in upkeep to shuffle, draw and hope, if you see nothing brainstorm in your turn and now you've looked at 7 additional cards for a land and can still shuffle in your next upkeep should the worst happen.



Knowing your opponent is enormous for what hands to keep as well. If you are at a small tournament scout around for your nightmare matchups where you must keep perfect hands to take game 1 (high tide, elves, weird combo) or non CmC 1 hands (Anything running Chalice @ 1: MUD, Aggro Loam, Dragon Stompy, Faerie Stompy) or situational keeps often on Crop rotation (Belcher, Dredge, Reanimator, Tendrils storm).

Last but not least, confidence is paramount to this deck. Often cards the cards in the deck are highly variant in power level throughout the game, which means the contents of our hand and our random draws often have the ability to alter card values as the game progresses. Use this lack of knowledge and changing power level of cards to your advantage with strong posture and faith in the deck's composition to pull you through even extremely gloomy positions. The deck runs 4-5x the number of choices/searches than any other competitive deck out there right now and often only a small fraction of those choices are the surefire-can't-lose situations, but without knowledge of your hand and often your top 3 cards, your opponent can never know what that plan is since at some point all of the possible plans can be that surefire plan. Abuse this lack of knowledge through confidence and maintained composure.
- An example. A Candelabra may not be useful to us on turn 1 as more than counterbait, but against a deck with no removal like RUG, it is often a must-counter since it shuts off 8 of their counters and accelerates us past the realm of them being able to answer threats. A RuG player can't know what your hand is on turn 1 though when staring down a candelabra. If your hand is two trops then the Candelabra is completely dead. If your hand is two Cloudposts then he will die to that candelabra not resolving. You force the RuG player into an extremely awkward position very early just by playing an innocuous card. If that Candelabra was countered I would be mentally vigilant not to droop my shoulders or change my demeanor to indicate the power of that Candelabra relative to my remaining hand.

Been having success with this deck at our local Thursday Night Legacy going

4-0 and 3-1 (piloted by a friend)

Aside from being fun it's very competitive!

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Originally Posted by blindspotxxx

Been having success with this deck at our local Thursday Night Legacy going

4-0 and 3-1 (piloted by a friend)

Aside from being fun it's very competitive!

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Glad to hear!

My local meta is slowly transitioning into ALL combo, which means the few BUG/RUG players are giddy with delight. My last Tuesday weekly event was 8 combo decks out of 12 players.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Glad to hear!

My local meta is slowly transitioning into ALL combo, which means the few BUG/RUG players are giddy with delight. My last Tuesday weekly event was 8 combo decks out of 12 players.

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What sideboard adjustments would you do if the meta swings in that favor? the 8 counter sb? 4 force of will and 4 flusterstorm? :)

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Originally Posted by blindspotxxx

What sideboard adjustments would you do if the meta swings in that favor? the 8 counter sb? 4 force of will and 4 flusterstorm? :)

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I debated changes I would make, and despite them all running combo decks from belcher to ant to hive mind to storm to high tide, 4 Fluster, 3 chalice, 2 revoker, 1 tabernacle covered all my worries.

The irony is, the deck beats combo as is, even though game 1 is horrid.

If you wanted to get a slight edge you could go to a 4th chalice? But imo it is unnecessary.

What does your list look like blindspotxxx?

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

I debated changes I would make, and despite them all running combo decks from belcher to ant to hive mind to storm to high tide, 4 Fluster, 3 chalice, 2 revoker, 1 tabernacle covered all my worries.

The irony is, the deck beats combo as is, even though game 1 is horrid.

If you wanted to get a slight edge you could go to a 4th chalice? But imo it is unnecessary.

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Are the Revokers really that good? What combo deck would you side them in? :) I'd rather the 6 counter sb you made with the trinispheres or chalices :)

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

What does your list look like blindspotxxx?

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Exactly like Rock Lee's latest list with GSZs and the 2nd Candelabra :tongue:

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Originally Posted by blindspotxxx

Are the Revokers really that good? What combo deck would you side them in? :) I'd rather the 6 counter sb you made with the trinispheres or chalices :)



Exactly like Rock Lee's latest list with GSZs and the 2nd Candelabra :tongue:

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I personally really like Revoker because it shores up your absolute nightmare matchups of MUD & Elves, while still being effective against storm & some outlier decks. If you have no-fear against elves/mud, you can absolutely run Trinisphere or Spell Pierce or Envelop in its spot. They all perform the same concept role.

Perhaps the thing I like most about Revoker is that it rewards research and risky/bad situations for opponents, as opposed to counters that are only counters at the end of the day. If you only have 1 blue mana, three counters aren't helping you. Also if they go turn 1 Xantid Swarm/Defense Grid you have your work cut out for ya.

I prefer holistic answers from multiple angles. Also remember Venser is absolutely a counter. I almost always bring him in against anything that isn't trying to combo me out on turn 1-2.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

I personally really like Revoker because it shores up your absolute nightmare matchups of MUD & Elves, while still being effective against storm & some outlier decks. If you have no-fear against elves/mud, you can absolutely run Trinisphere or Spell Pierce or Envelop in its spot. They all perform the same concept role.

Perhaps the thing I like most about Revoker is that it rewards research and risky/bad situations for opponents, as opposed to counters that are only counters at the end of the day. If you only have 1 blue mana, three counters aren't helping you. Also if they go turn 1 Xantid Swarm/Defense Grid you have your work cut out for ya.

I prefer holistic answers from multiple angles. Also remember Venser is absolutely a counter. I almost always bring him in against anything that isn't trying to combo me out on turn 1-2.

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What do you need to shutdown for MUD and what do you take out? Although a few people play MUD they always seem to make it to the near top tables or the top tables.

Elves? We revoker what? The wirewoods and the heritage druids? Just curious :)

Hi.

Yesterday I win a 63 players tournament with 6 round of swiss plus a cut to TOP 16 (new experiment).

I play the standar list with 1 Karakas, 1 Emrakul, 2 Candelabra, 3 Expedition map and 4 Show & tell main.

Sideboard:

3 FLusterstorm (Combo - Control)
3 Chalice of the void (Storm - elves - burn - RUG? Not tested)
2 Drop of honey (Aggro - RUG)
2 Elephant grass (Aggro - RUG - Dredge)
2 Cursed totem (Elves - MUD - GW)
2 Venser
1 Tabernacle


Short report of the tournament

Round 1
JUNK (Rock) 2-0

Round 2
Geist of Saint Traft Stompy (whit hexproof creatures) 2-0

Round 3
Zombie bombardment 2-1

Round 4
Miracles UW 1-1 (Back to basics and I not found the Candelabras, round time)

Round 5
Esper blade 1-1 (Round time)

Round 6
Mono black 2-0

TOP 16
ANT 2-1 (A little luck)

TOP 8
Esper blade 2-1 (The same player in round 5)

TOP 4
Shardless BUG 2-0

FINAL
Dredge 2-0 (Recorded video)

The video of the final and the all TOP 16 will be on manainfinito.com soon

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Originally Posted by Zeisse

Hi.

Yesterday I win a 63 players tournament with 6 round of swiss plus a cut to TOP 16 (new experiment).

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Congrats!

I can't wait for the coverage to show up!

I am always amazed that people dont' run 4 flusterstorm, and then still beat ANT. In my opinion Drop of Honey is overkill against aggro, how was it in your games? If Back to Basics is showing itself more and more, it is a strong case for Spell pierce back in the board.

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Originally Posted by Zeisse

Hi.

Yesterday I win a 63 players tournament with 6 round of swiss plus a cut to TOP 16 (new experiment).

I play the standar list with 1 Karakas, 1 Emrakul, 2 Candelabra, 3 Expedition map and 4 Show & tell main.

Sideboard:

3 FLusterstorm (Combo - Control)
3 Chalice of the void (Storm - elves - burn - RUG? Not tested)
2 Drop of honey (Aggro - RUG)
2 Elephant grass (Aggro - RUG - Dredge)
2 Cursed totem (Elves - MUD - GW)
2 Venser
1 Tabernacle


Short report of the tournament

Round 1
JUNK (Rock) 2-0

Round 2
Geist of Saint Traft Stompy (whit hexproof creatures) 2-0

Round 3
Zombie bombardment 2-1

Round 4
Miracles UW 1-1 (Back to basics and I not found the Candelabras, round time)

Round 5
Esper blade 1-1 (Round time)

Round 6
Mono black 2-0

TOP 16
ANT 2-1 (A little luck)

TOP 8
Esper blade 2-1 (The same player in round 5)

TOP 4
Shardless BUG 2-0

FINAL
Dredge 2-0 (Recorded video)

The video of the final and the all TOP 16 will be on manainfinito.com soon

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Congrats! Can't wait for your report as well :)

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Originally Posted by blindspotxxx

What do you need to shutdown for MUD and what do you take out? Although a few people play MUD they always seem to make it to the near top tables or the top tables.

Elves? We revoker what? The wirewoods and the heritage druids? Just curious :)

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Against MUD you have very little to "shut down." Chalice is a royal beating, so keeping hands that are CmC 1 dependent can ruin you. Show & tell is often your best avenue of play, but still not nearly as strong as it is against the rest of the format. If possible stopping Metalworker is good, but only possible with Revokers. You are able to out-dude them given time, but time is often something they take advantage of. Really there is very little suggestions to give against MUD besides don't get paired against it, and rely on RuG/Bug/Maverick to annihilate it.


Against elves you name Heritage Druid, then Heritage Druid, and then Heritage Druid. never too many heritage druids. Save your pithing needles for Wirewood Symbiote and then Quirion Ranger.

I went 3-2 with a pertty stock U/G list at a local with 25 peps.
R1: RUg 2-1, elephant grass, and glimmerposts were good all day vs rug
R2: Affinity 0-2 I was utterly crushed both games she drops a T3 Tez and ultimates him next turn, then drops another. G2 she vomits her entire hand on the table + plating on t2
R3: 2-0 Esperblade He saw no disruption in either game and was pounded
R4: 0-2 RUg G1 I mull to 5, and he wastes the crap out of me. G2 he go Delver Waste Waste, guess how that game went, I got stifled in there a couple of times also.
R5: 2-1 RUg this time I saw my needles for waste elephant grass + glimmer post allow mes to chain spaghetti monsters, I may have also snuk a SNT in there also.

Repeal was OK, I think I may try devastation tide in its place, as repel was all but useless against affinity, and does squat against geese.

I'm also beginning to think that repeal just doesn't do enough at the moment. It's okay versus rug by delaying them a turn (and perhaps making them use a brainstorm/ponder) and keep card parity, but I really hate that it costs 3U to bounce a kotr.

I tried devastation tide in repeals place in a couple of tests earlier today, but I still end up with the conclusion that it's too clunky by requiring either UU or brainstorm setup. Its also pretty terrible synergy with pithing needle. I think I'm going to test cyclonic rift in the repeal spots as soon as I grab some. You're not able to do quirky candle tricks or save your needle wih it, but I feel like those tend to be corner cases for what repeal does in the deck anyways. On the flip side, you get a 1U bouncer that an become a 1-sided evacuation. It also has synergy with elephant grass because the grass usually lets you develop your mana enough to overload the rift versus aggro decks.

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Originally Posted by somethingdotdotdot

I'm also beginning to think that repeal just doesn't do enough at the moment. It's okay versus rug by delaying them a turn (and perhaps making them use a brainstorm/ponder) and keep card parity, but I really hate that it costs 3U to bounce a kotr.

I tried devastation tide in repeals place in a couple of tests earlier today, but I still end up with the conclusion that it's too clunky by requiring either UU or brainstorm setup. Its also pretty terrible synergy with pithing needle. I think I'm going to test cyclonic rift in the repeal spots as soon as I grab some. You're not able to do quirky candle tricks or save your needle wih it, but I feel like those tend to be corner cases for what repeal does in the deck anyways. On the flip side, you get a 1U bouncer that an become a 1-sided evacuation. It also has synergy with elephant grass because the grass usually lets you develop your mana enough to overload the rift versus aggro decks.

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Sounds like you just should run All is Dust, which is fine, just such a larger liability against Rug.

Well the thing with Cyclonic Rift is that it's basically live at every stage of the game. Even versus Rug/Bug tempo, you can cast it at 1U which is only 1 mana more than repeal (but card disadvantage). However, late game versus decks with 2-3 creatures, it basically becomes a less powerful All is Dust (it does have some advantages in that it doesn't kill your own titans and bounces opposing ensnaring bridges) and stalls 1-2 turns rather than the 4-5. Its just a lot more versatile than either All is Dust or Devastation Tide.

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Originally Posted by somethingdotdotdot

Well the thing with Cyclonic Rift is that it's basically live at every stage of the game. Even versus Rug/Bug tempo, you can cast it at 1U which is only 1 mana more than repeal (but card disadvantage). However, late game versus decks with 2-3 creatures, it basically becomes a less powerful All is Dust (it does have some advantages in that it doesn't kill your own titans and bounces opposing ensnaring bridges) and stalls 1-2 turns rather than the 4-5. Its just a lot more versatile than either All is Dust or Devastation Tide.

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In my RTR testing, there were no realistic situations where Cyclonic Rift had more utility than Devastation Tide. If you're looking for permanent removal, All is Dust is simply better for 7 mana, sometimes 5. Having no applications to bounce Top or Candelabras is hugely inhibitory, since repeal on SDT is your draw engine and on Candelabra is your best mana accelerant.

From my testing so far, the times when cyclonic rift is better than tide is when its in the starting hand or when you draw it while the board is empty. A tide stuck in hand w/o brainstorm is basically -1 card from the starting hand, while a cyclonic rift can still turn 2/3 bounce a delver. I will concede that once you have enough mana, the tide tends to be better because it is 2 less mana (but the UU is what kills it for me) and All is Dust's permanence is a lot more satisfying.

If Team America takes off more, cyclonic rift bouncing a tombstalker is really good. It'll buy at least 2-3 turns for 1U while repeal would need 8U.