I agree about manabond... Like I said it was a testing configuration to get a lot of games with Titania in.
3 Sideboard titans? What does the rest of your board look like?
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I agree about manabond... Like I said it was a testing configuration to get a lot of games with Titania in.
3 Sideboard titans? What does the rest of your board look like?
I don't play sphere effects anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE
Really, mind sharing your board configuration?Quote:
Originally Posted by dafrk3in
@ darfk3in; jup, please share your SB.
Hello all. I went to a local Legacy IQ yesterday and here's the report. Four of my six matches were on camera, so it might be worth a look.
RG Lands #6
If I played in a tournament today I would play:
4 Dark Depths
1 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Maze of Ith
3 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Crop Rotation
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
2 Manabond
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
Sideboard:
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Choke
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Fling
1 Karakas
3 Krosan Grip
1 Mishra's Factory
2 Primeval Titan
1 Titania
1 Rishadan Port
Why 2 DD in your SB?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
@ patrick: nice seeing you in action and of course congrats! Could you share how you boarded during your MU's? Off topic: impressive beard :laugh:
@ dafrk3in: that's a interesting SB. Is your meta light on combo? Mind sharing your thoughts on some cards? When do you side in Blasphemous Act? Why the Rishadan Port in the side? I see you like to keep your spellcount maximized. Would you consider dropping a Maze of Ith for Rishadan Port, thus having a full manadenial-package?
I think sphere effects are overrated. I played them main for a long time (over punishing fires) on MTGO, and they were pretty good. Eventually, I concluded that they were only really strong against storm, and not actually very good against Elves, Sneak and Show, Miracles, OmniTell, etc. The matchup against Storm, in my experience, is not as hard as people make it out to be. I think that Maze is really strong maindeck. I tried pre-sideboarding a GQ in for a port, and I liked it, so I've kept it there. Blasphemous Act is mostly there for Death and Taxes, but I'll side it in against Elves and any other decks that try to flood the board. Fling is mostly for Death and Taxes and decks with Chain of Vapor / Echoing Truth combined with pressure. Choke is speculative, I'm actually thinking that I'll play Seismic Assault or Boil over it instead. Emrakul is for Show and Tell decks and mill decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
By the way, I'm not claiming that these choices are optimal or even well-tested. Now that I've gotten my reps in with the deck and have a good idea of what I want to accomplish in various matchups, I'm happy to bring untested sideboard cards to big tournaments.
Thanks for the compliments about the beard. I've worked on it a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
I already commented on how I boarded for Miracles and for Sneak and Show, so I won't rehash those discussions. Here's a breakdown of my camera matches:
Against Shardless Bug, I never got the chance to board, since my opponent started off with a game loss. Boarding probably would have gone something like: +1 Titan, +1 Courser of Kruphix, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Choke, maybe +1 Pithing Needle, -1 Karakas, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Glacial Chasm, -2 Manabond, and if I'd have wanted the Pithing Needle, -1 Tranquil Thicket. Karakas and Bog don't do much to Shardless, I'd lose Manabond because I'd expect some type of yard hate, and I'd drop the Chasm because it only deals with Tarmogoyf, which Maze of Ith already takes care of. I also think it is safe to lose one Tranquil Thicket (dropping the overall number of tree-sources in the deck to a still-reasonable sixteen) if you're dropping Manabond.
Against Elves: +4 Sphere of Resistance, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Depths, -3 Maze of Ith, -1 Karakas, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Glacial Chasm, -1 Manabond. I wanted to keep both Manabonds in against Elves, but I felt that there was a reasonable chance that Steve would bring in Pithing Needle for Stage, in which case I wanted to have a solid answer with a reasonable chance of opening it in my seven-grip. Thus, two K-Grips. I opted to drop the Chasm with some reluctance, thinking that it could be a panic button against a quick Craterhoof Behemoth, but then I reasoned that if I had either a Gamble or a Crop Rotation, I would find Tabernacle first and foremost.
Against both Death and Taxes: +1 Titan, +1 Courser, +1 Pithing Needle, +4 Krosan Grip, -2 Manabond, -1 Karakas, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Port, -1 Tranquil Thicket, -1 Dark Depths. I dropped the Port because it isn't really that great against Taxes since they have either Vial and more basics even that Miracles, and though I went from 3 to 2 Depths after boarding, I think that that is correct, since they have so many answers to a witch token you only want to make her when you're either in control or you have no other choice. I've heard some people say they keep Karakas in against Taxes--but that doesn't seem that great to me. I'd much prefer to burn Thalia with a P-Fire than bounce her.
Anyway, glad you enjoyed the report.
I am going to test the RUG Combo version tonight. (The light Blue splash.) I also want to mess around with my board but I do not feel like running two experiments at the same time is a good way to do things. I do wish to test dropping Spheres for an extra Titan, another Choke, a Boil and the 4th Fire. Will likely try that next week.
Will let you know how it goes.
Titans are 33 tix on MODO now Kreygasm. Should have kept mine :(
Congrats with the results, Patrick, you sure did get lots of broadcasttime! Always nice to neuter Elves with Tabernacle and waste their cradles. And I second Chatto's beardcomment :)Quote:
Originally Posted by gigapatrick
The last RUGlands-deck performing well on SCG (Tom Mcleod) was quite combo-oriented as well, with maindeck 2 Depths, 4 stages and 4 crops. If I would play a RUG list, it would look like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=79339
Lands has a hard time with combo-matchups, and usually lots of sideboardspace is taken by anticombocards (spheres, thorn, chalice, ...). As you don't pack any of these, many combomatchups will be very hard to unwinnable. I wouldn't risk it, even if you expect (less than) 20% combo. I don't know your maindeck, but if there's already a bog and a Karakas there, I would swap at least these Karakas/Bogs in the sideboard for combohate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
What is a 'light U-splash?' or what do you consider a light U-splash?, or: what cards do you have in mind?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Edit.
I really like it. I am on my way home now, will have a report up in a few hours. The list seems like more than a fad, it can be it's own branch. As long as you do not go overboard on the targets, Academy is a great addition.
DnT (w,l,l) (I fucked up, I likely could have had a real shot game three but I fucked it.)
Jund (w,l,w)
MUD (w,l,w)
ANT (l,w,w)
Sideboard
Instants [8]
4 Crop Rotation
3 Punishing Fire
Sorceries [8]
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
Enchantments [4]
4 Exploration
Artifacts [6]
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
4 Mox Diamond
Lands [34]
1 Academy Ruins
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Maze of Ith
2 Taiga
3 Dark Depths
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Rishadan Port
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland
Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Choke
1 Primeval Titan
I am planing to move the Orb to the side, cut the Depths from the side and add a Manabond in the place of the Orb. I never found I wanted it and it feels more like the kind of specialised item you want in targeted matches.
I missed the 3rd Maze, having the ability to pull it from the grave and just lay it down, no questions asked is more useful than the hoops you have to jump though to get EE in play. That said, EE naturally drawn is shockingly effective regardless of your ability to recur it. But I doubt anyone did not already know that. Also having it in play and rotating for Academy did force a concession. I think that says a lot of what it can do.
Academy is the weakest link. Without a target it's not great and I did not have many targets, that said I am not adding more. Academy did prove itself in the Strom matchup though. When I had my Sphere decayed I just placed it back on top and replayed it. I did not think about it as a line of play when I was putting the list together but in play when I saw that interaction I just grinned. "Do not collect 200 dollars."
The other choices I can see for addition to the side are Crucible and Oblivion Stone. I like my list as it is right now, that and I don't really feel like either add a whole lot to be honest. Testing will happen though.
I think the one issue with my games tonight is that I got a lot of good matchups, I feel against Jund and MUD you can make the deck slightly worse and still be an overwhelming favourite to win. So beating them, it does not feel like this change mattered. In fact that is a point I wish to make, at this point I like it but I can not say it makes any of the more difficult matches that much better than they are. Against the good matches, the loss of Manabond and a Maze is quite a cost to pay to add something that doesn't necessarily make the matchup any better. Again I will test. Wiping a board of 2 drops against DnT though did make me smile.
Anyway, I will get into the games later on. That's just my thoughts right now. If anyone else wants to try it, please do so and let me know what you thought.
Edit x2:
Morte, thanks for the table lay out that I could copy but dam they are a pain to play with. Looks a ton cleaner though.
I'll vouch for that build as an excellent middle ground between the combo- and control-oriented builds. I've been playing a maindeck very close to it for over a month now and it has been effective. Although I'm of the traditional Lands mindset of "Don't win until the opponent can no longer put forth resistance," I have made a conscious effort to be more flexible of late: the easier access to a 20/20 has been a powerful tool which has won many games. Marit Lage is frequently available on T2 or T3, though whether it's the preferable play route depends on the matchup. I've got Ghost Quarter and Crucible in the main and have scrapped Zuran Orb for now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivfader
The only other poster I know on this style list is Dosferra, from whom I got it originally. If anyone else is running it please post (here or in the RUG thread) to compare notes.
Great seeing you on camera and congratulations on the result. It would take me twelve years to grow that beard.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigapatrick
I watched one of the matches vs D&T, and other than a deep think or two, you appeared comfortable with the deck -- in contrast to how you've described yourself in earlier reports.
That is one of the most intimidating playmats I've ever seen.
Thanks for the comments, Sockosensei. It felt great to pilot the deck that day, though upon watching a couple of my matches, I saw more than a few mistakes. Will have to tighten up my play.
On another note: My final opponent of the IQ, upon looking at my sideboard, commented that I was essentially giving up my Storm matchup by only packing six Sphere effects in the board. So, what do you guys think? Is six enough for the Storm matchup, or do we really need seven (or eight)?
I think your opponent did not see gamble as a way to get chalice for zero or one. Sometimes playing with 6 spheres, drawing multiple copies felt useless for me (like when you have already two spheres on the table), because casting them tied up mana much more than just activating port. There's also the wastelands setting your stormopponent landdrops back, so I think 6 is more than enough and other cards (like multiple chalice, choke, needle) are more useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigapatrick
I've been playing a RUG list for a few months, and have been recently testing out Buried Ruin in place of Academy Ruins. In many cases I find it preferable, so I'm wondering if anyone else has tested this out and what your thoughts are. Also, it seems like it may be a more color-efficient solution for including the flexibility of EE without splashing blue for Academy. Anyone else test this out?
Well, U is used to set EE on three, if I'm not mistaken. It takes out a greater variety of cards (Knight, TNN, Liliana etc etc)
EDIT: the more I come to think about it, it just doesn't make sense splashing U without using Intuition, but maybe it's just me. It looks like you are diluting your mainboard for just one or two cards. Is it really worth giving up the sheer power that is straight RG Lands?
It felt like I gave up very little with that list I played and gained a lot. I will try it some more, but at this point I am very happy with EE and feel it's a valid addition if you wish to use it.
I understand the desire to pull back, with some tweaking though that might become my primary list.
I like buried ruin, but I also like having a fetchable option to set EE on 3.
Don't forget Ensnaring Bridge as another major reason that EE on 3 is relevant. Getting the blue off a land also gives you a far more realistic chance (Mox) of reaching 4 colors to hit Jace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
We're all learning. That why video coverage is so valuable.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigapatrick
I was surprised towards the end of the final round that you didn't Krosan Grip the Vial@3 to force the opponent to cast Flickerwisp in the main phase before you made the token, or Punishing Fire the Flickerwisp once it was on the board to get your damage through turns earlier. It seemed you had inevitability so perhaps these plays weren't necessary, but with D&T I always worry about some combination of Cataclysm/RIP in a key spot and don't want to give them extra draws to find it.
I agree with Rivfader. You've got Gambles for hate. There's also Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog on a Past in Flames line, or even just messing up their threshold in response to Cabal Ritual. Crop --> Tabernacle vs Empty the Warrens. For the R/G players testing Engineered Explosives, you've got the added benefit of using it to wipe out Goblins or any Lion's Eye Diamonds, Petals, or Chrome Moxen they play out early to beat Sphere effects. You also threaten to make Marit Lage and just win. At this point the only thing left is a Ghost Quarter for their basics. Finally, there's the benefit that many storm players underestimate Lands' ability in the matchup. You've by no means given up the matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigapatrick
BTW, was that the same Ben who piloted Storm to top 8 at SCG Indy recently? It was a very impressive run.
I believe it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sockosensei
Just a question: anyone else feel like you could get away with just three K grip?
That's why I have been using for a while. Swapped the 4th out for a Grudge.
I was experimentimg with 3 K-Grip/ 1 Ray of Revelation. Still not sure if I like it.
depends on how prepared you'd like to be for miracles match up. With other good miracle haters in board, e.g. choke, titan, etc. you could. However, going with less than 3 will make it painful against RIP in any deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigapatrick
Today I won a 51 tournament in Milan with this list (mini blue-splash for Academy Ruins):
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Rishadan Port
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Maze of Ith
2 Taiga
3 Dark Depths
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tropical Island
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire
Sideboard:
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Krosan Grip
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Zuran Orb
1 Dark Depths
2 Primeval Titan
Tomorrow I'll write a report and my impressions on the blue splash! Good night :smile:
Nice job, Morte! Looking forward to your report.
Also congrats to David Long and Ralph Betesh!
Hope you guys post a little report as well.
Here we are! Report from MLL 7 in Milan on March 1st, 2015. It was my first tournament experience with the deck, I just tested for a few hours with my friends, the most of my knowledge of the deck comes from the awesome primer of this thread and the video reports included. Really a great job.
In my meta Miracles is probably the most popular deck and especially the deck of choice of many of the strongest players. Combo, mostly ANT and sometimes S&T, are present but much less popular; same for Burn, even if some months ago I faced Burn twice in the same tournament. Fair decks are very popular with all the usual archetypes of Delver decks, Elves, BUG Shardless, D&T etc.
The idea behind my tuning was to mostly keep David Long's fast combo route but to have more diversified answers against complex matchups. I added the Academy Ruins plan with a minimal pack of 1 Academy Ruins, 1 Engineered Explosives and 1 Tropical island. I cut 1 Taiga for 1 Tropical Island in order to keep the same amount of :g: sources, 1 Ghost Quarter for 1 Academy Ruins, as both are colorless lands with an ability sometimes not very useful, and 1 Maze of Ith for 1 Engineered Explosives: both are not mana sources, are situational answers, and anyway I'm still keeping 3 Mazes. So, I tried not to unbalance the general equilibrium of the deck in order to keep its strength substantially unaltered (the question is, is it also an improvement?)
The list:
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Dark Depths
2 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Tropical Island
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Maze of Ith
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Academy Ruins
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire
Sideboard:
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Krosan Grip
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Zuran Orb
1 Dark Depths
2 Primeval Titan
I wanted to leverage the Ruins plan with the sideboard, so I added some artifacts in the form of a Zuran Orb, since i considered probable to face Burn, the versatile Pithing Needle and the usual combination of Sphere of Resistance and Chalice of the Void. I cut Thorn of Amethyst to make room, with the rationale that Ruins gives me more capability to keep my sphere effect and that anyway the main plan is dodging ANT (ehm). Lastly, I added a 2 Primeval Titan as my B-plan against hate and silver bullet against S&T.
Now let's go with the report! 51 players for 6 rounds of Swiss + top 8.
ROUND 1: GBr Nic Fit
G1: he deploys a couple of Veteran Explorers while I found the combo. I think my main effort here was not to play Tabernacle, really an easy matchup.
Sideboard: something like
+2 Primeval Titan (I was fearing Surgical Extraction on a dredged piece of the combo)
+4 Krosan Grip (I think I always sided in all my KG after G1)
+1 Dark Depths (more speed less control, see the plan to cut all Maze of Iths below)
-2 Manabond (often my first choice when choosing how to make room for the sideboard)
-1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale (detrimental for Veteran Explorer, useless if Nic Fit is able to go late game)
-1 Glacial Chasm (useless)
-3 Maze of Ith (I want to be much faster than the beaters of this slow deck)
G2: he succeeds in Therapying away my Exploration and plays a Needle on Thespian's Stage, but he can't threaten me before I Grip his Needle EOT, deploy the combo and win.
1-0-0
ROUND 2: Jund
G1: He starts of Thoughseize into my Engineered Explosives. His Deathrite Shaman removes my first Life from the Loam and he let me discard some cards with Hymn to Tourach and Liliana while he's beating with a Tarmogoyf, but I naturally draw another Loam and his deck has no answers to the combo after I removed his Wasteland.
Sideboard:
+4 Krosan Grip
-2 Manabond
-1 Glacial Chasm
-1 Karakas
G2: He keeps a bad start with a Grove of the Burnwillows, a Wasteland and a couple of Shamans. Totally useless because I have Exploration and the combo in hand for a turn 2 20/20.
2-0-0
ROUND 3: BUG Shardless
G1: I have a modest hand of Manabond, Gamble and many lands. I open with Manabond go, turn 2 Gamble into Life from the Loam and I start deploying a stupid amount of lands. But, it takes time for me to finish the combo while his beating me with two 5/6 Goyfs (my dredged Engineered Explosives was pumping them another +1/+1). When he's attacking me for lethal I have a Maze of Ith and the combo ready, but for some reason I don't want to create the token and block the second goyf and I pick up my cards! Sorry guys! At the end of the match oppo will ask me what the heck:-)
Sideboard:
+4 Krosan Grip
-2 Manabond
-1 Glacial Chasm
-1 Karakas
G2: My revenge is terrible with an opening hand of Mox Diamond and Life from the Loam. He plays a Wasteland on my Dark Depths only to see a Crop Rotation for another one as an answer and he can do nothing else.
G3: He forces my Exploration but fails to find real hate. I pass with 3 mana + Thespian's Stage and a Crop Rotation in hand, thinking to dig for a Punishing Fire for the Baleful Strix he played the turn before. But I don't need it, he attacks me! Maybe an example of fair play after my misplay in G1;-) I crop into Depths and kill him next turn.
3-0-0
ROUND 4: Mono Red Goblins
G1: His start is not exciting and I calmly Punishing Fire the Goblin Chieftain before killing him.
Sideboard:
+4 Krosan Grip
+1 Pithing Needle (Vial into Stingscourger)
-2 Manabond
-1 Glacial Chasm
-1 Karakas
-1 Tranquil Thicket
G2: I can't block his Goblin Lackey into Goblin Ringleader. I have Punishing Fire and Grove of the Burnwillows ready for his Magus of the Moon, but sadly the Ringleader sends 2 of them on the bottom of his deck and he draws no other hate before it's too late. He told me he switched Blood Moon and Pithing Needle for Magus of the Moon and Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker because more suited against the meta. I think I'm the only Lands player in the room in fact. Super sad!
4-0-0
ROUND 5: URw Delver
We are the only two players at 4-0-0 and there are 6 turns in total, so we ID.
4-0-1
ROUND 6: UWr Miracle
He calculates the rating and his sure to be in with a draw, so we ID again.
4-0-2
TOP 8:
UGw Infect (for people debating Infect in the Format & Article Discussion forum: yes he was successfully running Swords to Plowshares + cool sideboard options)
RG Lands (me)
BUG Shardless
URw Delver
UWr Miracles
MOST (I suppose few of you have heard about it - I'm explaining more later)
BUG Shardless
Stoneblade? I'm not 100% sure, but it wasn't something I was fearing.
So, I think the only matchup I'd like to avoid is MOST, since I have no idea how to fight it properly. And obviously... I'm paired with MOST :laugh:
SEMIFINALS: MOST
So let's introduce what is MOST. The acronym means Merieke-Opposition-Survival-Tradewind, where Merieke is the most popular legend of the game, Merieke Ri Berit, Opposition I think is not played any more, Survival has been replaced by Fauna Shaman and Tradewind is the old school hero Tradewind Rider. It plays a horrible GWub manabase of like 15 lands, with some forests, a lot of mana dorks, Green Sun's Zenith and a lot of utility creatures. We have an Italian thread here, Google translate should help you. In practise, it seems shit but it's actually very strong if you can run it properly, because it has answers to everything. Also the 4-5 players in the world playing it use to customize a lot their toolboxes, so it's hard to exactly predict what they could do. I have one only certainty: it's a small-creatures based deck with a fragile manabase, I have to attack it as much as I can and not let it setup it's Merieke-Tradewind-Venser-Sower-whatever engine or I'll have no out.
G1: I have a higher rating and I'm starting with a hones Mox + Loam. He setups Mother of Runes + Quirion Ranger before I can Punishing Fire or Wasteland anything (all his lands are forests so he can bounce them with the Ranger), and then Fauna Shaman into Meddling Mage. But my last Loam before his Mage founds The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, he must sacrifice something, I have triple waste and he scoops.
Sideboard:
+4 Krosan Grip
+1 Pithing Needle (he has a lot of nasty activated abilities)
+1 Chalice of the Void (he has a lot of one drops)
+1 Dark Depths (I need to be fast)
-2 Manabond
-1 Glacial Chasm
-1 Karakas
-3 Maze of Ith (if he's at the point where he can attack me, I have lost)
G3: He starts of Birds of Paradise. I have a good start with an opening of Mox, Exploration, Loam, Grip, Depths and some lands. Turn 2 he exiles my Loam with Rest in Peace, plays again Quirion Ranger, activates her and plays Fauna Shaman. In my turn 2, I could Grip his RIP but I don't need it: I deploy the combo and pass with other 2 mana open. Turn 3 he thinks a lot. He discards Squee with Shaman and he can search everything, but he can generate 4 mana only during his turn since he requires his land drop, so he can't go for Venser. He chooses and plays Tradewind Rider. His plan is to untap Birds of Paradise with Quirion Ranger in my turn and block the 20/20, then the next turn he has an active Tradewind Rider. He passes and I generate the 20/20.
In my turn I untap, and then I Punishing Fire his poor Birds of Paradise :cool:
Now he's obliged to block Marit Lage with the Rider, but then he has not enough mana left to assemble another answer next turn, so he shakes my hand.
In top 4 we split the prizes.
So! Very funny tournament, I dodged the bad matchups all day like a pro (a couple of ANT were close to enter top 8 in round 5, one scooped to Miracles, one could not race Infect). The question is, how good is the Ruins splash?
It's hard to comment since I substantially never drawed it. When I had to tutor, I always tutored for the combo. The only time I drew Engineered Explosives oppo Thoughseized it, apart from that all I got from it was giving +1/+1 to some goyfs. Anyway, in almost all matchups Engineered Explosives would have been a great tool. It's mass removal against many decks including complicated matchups like D&T, and it's a very flexible removal, my only maindeck removal for enchantments and artifacts, in theory we could be able to destroy Jace too. So, I'd say Engineered Explosives it's the piece of the "triplet" which convinced me the most.
Academy Ruins is not totally terrible alone as a colorless mana source, for sure it's been worse than the Ghost Quarter it replaced in my list when I drew it during this tournament. But Explosive recursion is often game over alone.
Tropical Island never annoyed me, the only time when I had it and I didn't have red for the Gamble I wished to play next turn I drew a Mox and I had another land in hand, so it never hurt me in these 11 tournament games - no a statistical evidence yet... My honest feedback is that naturally assembling Academy Ruins + Engineered Explosives is not very probable, and Tropical Island is only useful in that case and only if you don't have any Mox. And, at that point, or you already have it in play, or you should tutor or fetch for it (I only play 3 fetchlands ATM).
In conclusion, at the moment I suggest you to look at David Long's list before going to a tournament with the Ruins splash! But personally I'll go on testing it, I cannot stop after an almost-perfect win :smile:
Lands by David Long
2nd @ SCG Baltimore March 1, 20154 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
4 Crop Rotation
4 Punishing Fire
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam1 Forest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Dark DepthsSideboard:
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Seismic Assault
4 Krosan Grip
1 Karakas
1 Dark Depths
Just a couple of comments about David's list:
- He kept the fast combo plan (all tutors, 6 enchantment acceleration, 4 Stages + 3 Depths main, 4th Depths in side) and I totally agree with him. I almost always planned to combo ASAP and I almost always succeed in comboing between turn 2 and turn 5
- He switched Karakas and Bojuka Bog, Bog main and Karakas in side. Probably correct in my meta too.
- He's fine with 2 Taiga, like me (but he has 4 fetchlands)
- He's fine with 3 Maze of Ith, like me
- He cut Ghost Quarter for better stuff, like me
- He's using the space for a 2nd Tranquil Thicket and a full set of Punishing Fire
- Sideboard:
- he's going for a very straight plan instead of versatility: no Zuran Orb/Pithing Needle but 7 mana lock artifacts (if we fight ANT let's fight seriously)
- full set of Grips (totally agree)
- mandatory Karakas
- 4th Depth for faster combo plan
- 2 B-plan sideboard cards (I agree, one is luckster), he prefers Seismic Assault over Titan. It's easier to play against Moon effects but you don't have silver bullets against S&T. I should analyze where the meta is going
Thank you for reading guys, let's go on improving this amazing deck!
Congrats to all! I'm still not convinced about the U-splash, and you just summed up al my doubts, Morte!
Also, I would love to read reports of David Long and Ralph Betesh. I like how they both just cut the crap and went for the all-in.
+1! (Blue splash not exciting, need more David Long and Rakph Betesh!) I suppose I posted my reply right while you were writing, my tournament report is above your post :smile:
Jup, so I had to edit :smile:
I'm especially interested in feedback about sideboarding:
- Outside of the obvious matchup tuning, I usually board in all Grips, I board out the Manabonds and, if the opponent attacks with creatures but is much slower then how I expect to be, I board out Glacial Chasm and some Maze of Ith. Do you agree?
- What B-plan wincon do you prefer? Seismic Assault, Primeval Titan, other? Why?
- I also would like other opinions about when siding in Seismic Assault / Primeval Titan (always when we're facing Moon or Rest in Peace, only if we see Surgical Extraction / Extirpate, etc.)
- How do you board against Elves? Do you board in Sphere effects?
- Do you agree with the sideboard choices in my report?
- Do you prefer a straight forward sideboard plan focused on the main issues or do you value versatility more?
Would running living wish over gamble solve these problems?Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte
Even though it's slower and lets the opponent know what you are doing, it helps you vs extirpate type cards and you can also get your primeval titan. And because your already in the colours, you could also put goblin sharpshooter vs green mana dorks. Even an acidic slime vs blood moon. I think it would give the deck better G1's versus tough matchups. But yes not being able to get loam with it is pretty bad.
Hi, Morte. Congratulations with a good finish! I'll try to answer some of your questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte
1. I would not go all in with 4 Krosan Grips unless you are 100% sure they find the targets. More or less agreed about CHasm and Mazes.
2. I prefer both. I side Assault as an extra creature removal against such decks as Elves and DnT, and both Titan and Assault when I expect heavy hate or long games.
3. Assault is not sided if you expect Surgical Extraction, otherwise see 2.
4. Recently I've sent the Elves matchup write up to Dice. Hope he inserts it in the primer soon. My SB plan is:
Side in: All Sphere of resistance, All Chalice of the Void, Seismic Assault, Dark Depths (if there's space)
Side out: Bojuka Bog, Karakas, 1-3 Maze of Ith, 1 Tranquil Thicket, 1 Manabond (I prefer to leave 1 as a Gamble target)
5. I do not agree with 4 Krosan Grips against Jund. Were you 100% sure you would face Pithing Needle in game 2? Still, you had EE as an answer.
6. Versatility is good when you do not know what to expect. Otherwise a straight plan is prefered. Usually you have 1 chance to gamble for a card, the rest of the game you loam and the chance to naturally draw those versatile singletones is low, even with a cycling Tranquil Thicket.
And my 5 rubles about the blue splash. I would recommend to start with a classic build and then decide about a splash. I play classic and I think the blue splash is not necessary. The worst thing about that is that you loose some really good utility lands for including Academy Ruins and EE. First of all, I mean Ghost Quarter, an irreplaceable land against Miracles. Also before blue I would go black for SB Abrupt Decays, but even that is an extreme measure.
All new additions to the primer (Like Elves and new lists as well as Patrick's links) go up when I get out of bed tomorrow.
Just got home from Legacy, 4-0 against Miracles, Infect, DnT and ANT. (That last match is becoming a ritual.) I was playing an adapted splash list and I won a game against DnT with a single shot EE. Outside of a timely top deck, the only other time I used it was to play it against Infect but not blow it. I killed him before I was ever in any risk. So far I have loved it when I have seen it and I am thinking of running two, but it's not yet run its course in testing and I might give up on this little experiment later.
I like the strengths it brings to the long game, I am not sure it is it worth it though. To this point I have not been punished for running it so I shall continue. If I was to go into a large event tomorrow though, I feel like I would run a more standard list.
Artifacts
4 Mox Diamond
1 Engineered Explosives
Spells
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire
Enchantments
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
Mana Lands
1 Forest
1 Tropical Island
2 Taiga
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
Mana Denial
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
Combo
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Dark Depths
Draw
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Horizon Canopy
Utility
3 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Academy Ruins
Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Krosan Grip
1 Zuran Orb
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Choke
As I am sure you can see, I blindly stole and adapted the sideboard from Morte. In my meta Choke is more effective than Titan and I did not regret the choice. I also learnt an interesting trick where if you play a Chasm, Rotate it in response to its trigger, you can find a land and sac it while keeping all you other lands in play. This proved handy as I needed to keep my Mana sources available for next turn and I rotated into the missing combo piece, saced it and Loamed it next turn. I saw the play from my opening hand, I just had to check with a Judge first to make sure it would work how I hoped it would. It does and it's handy even though I am sure it will almost never come up.
Highlight of the night, getting paired against Omnishow and then getting a repair called and going up against DnT instead. Better to be lucky...
Well, that's a weird interaction, but if a judge says it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Well done Dice! I'm interested in a report of your ANT and Miracles matches. Did you miss Ghost Quarter against Miracles? Are you satisfied with your 3-1 split of Krosan Grip and Ancient Grudge? How's been Ancient Grudge in general?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Thank you very much door, precious support here. Can you share your current sideboard and list?Quote:
Originally Posted by door
I noticed that both winning lists of SCG Baltimore ran no Ghost Quarter, but it is possible that Miracles is less popular in US than in Europe, or that the straight fast-combo plan makes it not relevant anyway if you're never going into a grindy game. Also, both lists cut down Maze of Ith and Taiga (to 3 and 2 respectively) for a full set of Punishing Fire (good with the rise of Deathrite Shaman) and minimum 2 or 3 Tranquil Thicket (N.B. only Tranquil Thicket, never Horizon Canopy with its land drop cost). Those highly focused lists did well in a quite diversified meta, looking at the SCG Baltimore top 16, proving that's a robust choice. What do you think?
After some testing I found that there is an issue with a color mana in this build - Specially if you want to loam + cycle + loam, which mean you need GGG, maybe it's because of my play style (more controlish then fast combo out - probably because of experience of older version of lands like U/G with Intuition/EE/Slaver lock) if anyone tried Riftstone portal - in U/G it was one of the solutions to problems which colored mana ?
Adding old tip/trick:
If opponent save lands with fetchlands (not cracked) and you have rishadan port online - just tap fetchland their eot - they will be forced to crack then, or lose them by wasteland.