[BFZ]Battle for Zendikar spoilers thread

Can we just find Emrakul and have him cost 20cc this time? Show & Boom needs to happen.

Wotc dont like to fuel SnT and breach(modern) deck. The fattie bosses in BfZ block are possible limited under cost 12, and without annilator ability.

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

Everyone's already forgotten about Hardened Scales?

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I initially misread that, and thought it caused fewer +1/+1 counters to be placed on creatures for some kind of synergy with undying.

Kazandu Blademaster would be pretty sweet with Hardened Scales

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

The only item on my wishlist is that WotC complete the cycle of dual-colored man-lands.

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I'm in love with this idea. I'll be happy with 5 enemy man-lands and 244 basics in the set.

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Originally Posted by iamajellydonut

What if we're already bored of it?

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What if we didn't even realize they were being chased?

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Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition

You guys remember when UG survival was the biggest thing ever? The Vengevine deck that got Survival banned? I loved that thing.

Then I took it to an SCG and in the 3-0 bracket got my ass fucking handed to me by a guy who metagamed everyone with an Allies deck. I shit you not, he beat 2 other UG Survival decks to get to me, and dream crushed me with a 2-0 as well. It's cute getting a 4/3 with haste out on turn 2, but you know what can eat salad elementals like no one's business?

Kazandu Blademaster.

He got 2 of these things to 3/3 or higher and I was just locked out of the game. That card withHada Freeblade, Ondu Cleric, and Aether Vial were enough to easily destroy the scariest, banworthiest deck in recent Legacy history.

Everyone here thinks they aren't scary or good, and maybe they won't be now that Miracles is fucking everywhere, but that deck still gives me nightmares.

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I remember this. Good times.

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Originally Posted by wolfstorm

Can we just find Emrakul and have him cost 20cc this time? Show & Boom needs to happen.

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YES. I was blowing people up with Draco and Erratic Explosion in old Extended at my LGS in 9th grade. Best deck ever.

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Originally Posted by jrsthethird

YES. I was blowing people up with Draco and Erratic Explosion in old Extended at my LGS in 9th grade. Best deck ever.

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I remember this. Good times.

Evolving wilds is confirmed in BFZ. Is it rendered the possiblity of enemy fetches reprint?

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Originally Posted by Tokugawa

Evolving wilds is confirmed in BFZ. Is it rendered the possiblity of enemy fetches reprint?

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Evolving Wilds. In every set since 2007.

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Originally Posted by Tokugawa

Evolving wilds is confirmed in BFZ. Is it rendered the possiblity of enemy fetches reprint?

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It's a strong indicator that Landfall is a thing. You need common enablers for your mechanics, or they don't get to see much Limited play.

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Originally Posted by jrsthethird

Evolving Wilds. In every set since 2007.

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And then that happened. :P

(Seriously, though, I will be VERY surprised if we don't get Landfall again. It was a crazy popular mechanic in both Limited and Constructed play, it adds strategic depth to cards without being overly complicated, and you have stuff like Animist's Awakening as recent synergies.)

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Originally Posted by Ellomdian

(Seriously, though, I will be VERY surprised if we don't get Landfall again. It was a crazy popular mechanic in both Limited and Constructed play, it adds strategic depth to cards without being overly complicated, and you have stuff like Animist's Awakening as recent synergies.)

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I would also be VERY upset if we get Landfall again. I hate that "Return to Plane #24" is essentially just a pale redux of the previous set. Even assuming they weren't terrible and actually embodied the glory of the originating set, I've already played Zendikar block. I've already played Ravnica block. I don't need to play a macabre imitation of them. If they want to return to the plane, that's fine, but it should at least be a fresh take that isn't repetitive as hell, or it should not take up the space of an ordinary expansion. I was annoyed when they lazily inserted shocklands into Return to Ravnica as a Band-Aid distraction, and I'll be just as annoyed if they do it here.

Eldrazi are already confirmed and, let's be honest, there's not too many ways you can make a fresh take on a 10+ mana goliath. So, after you add the Eldrazi and the pandering fetchlands and well received Landfall and all the mana acceleration necessary to support those goons, you've basically got the same fucking set with an edit on the same story that doesn't matter anyway because we don't do stories anymore. I don't want the same fucking set. I want something new.

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Originally Posted by iamajellydonut

Eldrazi are already confirmed and, let's be honest, there's not too many ways you can make a fresh take on a 10+ mana goliath. So, after you add the Eldrazi and the pandering fetchlands and well received Landfall and all the mana acceleration necessary to support those goons, you've basically got the same fucking set with an edit on the same story that doesn't matter anyway because we don't do stories anymore. I don't want the same fucking set. I want something new.

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Sell your Inquisition of Kozileks now, kids. It doesn't make flavor sense to reprint this card anywhere else in the near future.

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Originally Posted by jrsthethird

Sell your Inquisition of Kozileks now, kids. It doesn't make flavor sense to reprint this card anywhere else in the near future.

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It doesn't make flavor sense but already being a $10 uncommon, if it's not in the next block, I'd expect in in Modern Masters 3 or 2017 or whatever it'll be called

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Originally Posted by thecrav

I'd expect in in Modern Masters 3 or 2017 or whatever it'll be called

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My vote goes to Modern Masters with a Vengeance.

Rated R.

Starring Tarmogoyf as John McClane.

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Originally Posted by Ellomdian

(Seriously, though, I will be VERY surprised if we don't get Landfall again. It was a crazy popular mechanic in both Limited and Constructed play, it adds strategic depth to cards without being overly complicated, and you have stuff like Animist's Awakening as recent synergies.)

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I agree that Landfall will almost undoubtedly return (because players and Wizards liked it*), but I have to quibble with the notion that it was popular in Limited. It really wasn't, as it was one of the biggest reasons ZZZ and ZZW were insanely aggro-dominated. Most Limited decks could only trigger Landfall on their turn, giving a huge advantage to attacking/aggressive players and much less to defensive ones.

*As anyone who has played the game for awhile and red the Mothership knows, WotC loves to pat themselves on the back and self-critique in very...nuanced ways. Mechanics in high-selling sets, regardless of their objective quality, are lionized, and some mechanics are inordinately shat upon (see: Infect getting zero criticism, despite it's extremely parasitic/linear nature, yet interesting mechanics being lambasted for spurious reasons, usually being deemed "too complex for newbies").

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Originally Posted by jrsthethird

Sell your Inquisition of Kozileks now, kids. It doesn't make flavor sense to reprint this card anywhere else in the near future.

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Heh. Actually, it might not even make flavor sense in BFZ block. Signs point to Emrakul and Kozilek having left Zendikar, in search of other planes to devour (and to be wove into other block's stories), with only Ulamog, and it's brood, remaining. My guess is that it'll probably see a reprint in the Zendikar vs Eldrazi Duel Deck and then some other supplemental product before maybe seeing print in New Phyrexia vs Eldrazi block (you know this set is going to happen).

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Originally Posted by iamajellydonut

Eldrazi are already confirmed and, let's be honest, there's not too many ways you can make a fresh take on a 10+ mana goliath. So, after you add the Eldrazi and the pandering fetchlands and well received Landfall and all the mana acceleration necessary to support those goons, you've basically got the same fucking set with an edit on the same story that doesn't matter anyway because we don't do stories anymore. I don't want the same fucking set. I want something new.

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I feel you brother. Lukewarm rehashes are kinda shitty (especially RtR block, which was decidedly blase). But unfortunately, Wizards loves them. Saves resources on design, whether it's man-hours or conceptual space, and appeals to nostalgia, be it old players or newbies who want a taste of the good ol' days. It's clear as day at this point that Wizards can just phone things in and we'll all keep buying, regardless of quality. Put in a few non-rotating format staples (hell manlands/fetchlands) and us addicts will be chomping at the bit to rip open some foil plastic.

I'd just be happy if they make a Limited format with decent removal and interactive games (a la Dragons of Tarkir). Origins has been a teensy bit disappointing so far.

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Originally Posted by Jamaican Zombie Legend

Heh. Actually, it might not even make flavor sense in BFZ block. Signs point to Emrakul and Kozilek having left Zendikar, in search of other planes to devour (and to be wove into other block's stories), with only Ulamog, and it's brood, remaining. My guess is that it'll probably see a reprint in the Zendikar vs Eldrazi Duel Deck and then some other supplemental product before maybe seeing print in New Phyrexia vs Eldrazi block (you know this set is going to happen).

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Fair enough. I don't pay too much attention to the story.

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I feel you brother. Lukewarm rehashes are kinda shitty (especially RtR block, which was decidedly blase). But unfortunately, Wizards loves them. Saves resources on design, whether it's man-hours or conceptual space, and appeals to nostalgia, be it old players or newbies who want a taste of the good ol' days. It's clear as day at this point that Wizards can just phone things in and we'll all keep buying, regardless of quality. Put in a few non-rotating format staples (hell manlands/fetchlands) and us addicts will be chomping at the bit to rip open some foil plastic.

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Going up to two blocks a year, we're gonna be seeing a lot more of this.

First mythic Eldrazi without Annihilator spoiled today for the upcoming Duel Deck:

http://media.wizards.com/2015/images...jkt2vsve7u.png

Oblivion Sower :6:
Creature - Eldrazi (Mythic Rare)
When you cast Oblivion Sower, target opponent exiles the top four cards of his or her library, then you may put any number of land cards that player owns from exile onto the battlefield under your control.
5/8
The Eldrazi hunger without limits and consume without pause.

Speculate away~

It's interesting to see that it hits any land cards that have been exiled, though really - unless you find a way and a reason to cast this for a discount, the effect is kind of a drop in the bucket at 6 mana. Like, in the top 4 cards if you hit a bunch of land, you gain 2-4 mana sure, but you probably did your opponent a favor getting all that bilge out of the way.

Insert obvious rant about how bigger, scarier things are better to cheat into play as well.

From a Modern/Standard angle, this is ...kind of a Delve hoser? Like again, we're talking about getting more lands after you can play a 6-drop, but it's kind of brutal to punish the opponent for daring to exile their own cards, I guess, in a way.

I was talking about this card with the guys at the office and one of them just has the hope that this is a variation on a theme of exiling X cards and playing [card type] from your opponent's exile. I doubt that it will ever gel with Legacy if this is the templating, because that darn 'cast' word. Darn it.

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Originally Posted by TsumiBand

From a Modern/Standard angle, this is ...kind of a Delve hoser? Like again, we're talking about getting more lands after you can play a 6-drop, but it's kind of brutal to punish the opponent for daring to exile their own cards, I guess, in a way.

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Basically. Unless something complementary is printed, the main and obvious problem with this guy is that your goal when you reach six mana shouldn't be to get a random Underground Sea and Scalding Tarn.

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Originally Posted by TsumiBand

It's interesting to see that it hits any land cards that have been exiled, though really - unless you find a way and a reason to cast this for a discount, the effect is kind of a drop in the bucket at 6 mana. Like, in the top 4 cards if you hit a bunch of land, you gain 2-4 mana sure, but you probably did your opponent a favor getting all that bilge out of the way.
...

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It would be classic to flip it over with Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver... Edit: Nevermind, it's a casting trigger. So it's got synergy, but no feedback. It would have to be Villainous Wealth.

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Originally Posted by Sylphnir

Oblivion Sower :6:
Creature - Eldrazi (Mythic Rare)
When you cast Oblivion Sower, target opponent exiles the top four cards of his or her library, then you may put any number of land cards that player owns from exile onto the battlefield under your control.
5/8
The Eldrazi hunger without limits and consume without pause.

Speculate away~

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Thinking about this with Hedron Crab and Rest in Peace.
T1: Crab
T2: STE, pull
T3: RiP, STE/Rampant Growth/Explore/etc
t4 : this, you should have hit him for 19-25 cards including fetch triggers, and getting 8 lands for more triggers might not be that hard, which you can then use to cast something else...

I do not think this will hit Legacy, but might be interesting in Standard if Landfall returns...

I think it's interesting as a possible delve/fetch hoser mechanic.

6 is probably a bit too much, but still, against DTT it can place 3-4 lands into play easily. Coupled with DRS too. I think a similar card at 4 could easily be playable as a ramp spell + body.

The dream would be something like casting it vs Lands with RiP in play and a couple of lands in exile. But at that point, you could just cast the Helm combo and win straight away.

Good vs Delve/(fetches)/DRS, but still not impressive, at least not in Legacy.

Does this work with Parallax Tide?

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Originally Posted by Cire

Does this work with Parallax Tide?

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Yes...

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Oblivion Sower
Creature - Eldrazi (Mythic Rare)
When you cast Oblivion Sower, target opponent exiles the top four cards of his or her library, then you may put any number of land cards that player owns from exile onto the battlefield under your control.
5/8

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So WotC is going full bore on making the exile zone just another graveyard? I know they've had their flicker-tricks with Deadeye Navigator and such in the past but still.

Will they come up with a new super-duper exile zone that absolutely can not be touched (until they change their own rules again)?

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Originally Posted by shrubs

Will they come up with a new super-duper exile zone that absolutely can not be touched (until they change their own rules again)?

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http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...4231&type=card

The problem with it being prospectively a Delve hoser is that you only get the fetchlands, which might not even be relevant in the deck you're playing.

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Originally Posted by Lord Seth

The problem with it being prospectively a Delve hoser is that you only get the fetchlands, which might not even be relevant in the deck you're playing.

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Yeah, I'm not really seeing it as a Delve hoser either.

"Heh, you played a powerful creature/spell for drastically reduced cost. Now I play a mediocre fatty and get some extra land. Showed you!"

Maybe it will play well with some sort of Ramp/Landfall shenanigans, but I doubt it will see non-rotating play, unless it's used in some sort of Magical Christmasland scenario like being boarded in the Tron mirror. Cast-trigger means TtB and Sneak Attack don't even want it.

Edit: Reading is tech.

Even if you grab a ton of fetch lands, you can still sacrifice them for something like Scapeshift. I also like this with Surgical Extraction and Extirpate on early fetch lands. Though narrow, I think this dude opens a lot of design space. I doubt it will go anywhere but I still like the card. At 6 mana, it's hard to compete against Primeval Titan even though it functions differently.

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Originally Posted by bruizar

Even if you grab a ton of fetch lands, you can still sacrifice them for something like Scapeshift. I also like this with Surgical Extraction and Extirpate on early fetch lands. Though narrow, I think this dude opens a lot of design space. I doubt it will go anywhere but I still like the card. At 6 mana, it's hard to compete against Primeval Titan even though it functions differently.

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Deathrite Shaman is a better way to exile an opponent's lands, though it also won't do as many.

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Originally Posted by Lord Seth

The problem with it being prospectively a Delve hoser is that you only get the fetchlands, which might not even be relevant in the deck you're playing.

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Wasteland says Hi. I'll be looking to build a deck around this as a concept. Something with a heavy LD theme, perhaps?

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Originally Posted by Darkenslight

Wasteland says Hi. I'll be looking to build a deck around this as a concept. Something with a heavy LD theme, perhaps?

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You still have to rely on the opponent delving them away, or play something like RiP. So you play Wasteland and other LD, then what's the payoff for getting all these lands into play?

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Originally Posted by thecrav

1. "allies" - seems like a phrasing WotC wouldn't do on accident - probable return of ally mechanic

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Allies was a horrible mechanic! Boring and somewhat overpowered if your deck is all allies (at least in Limited).
Also, MaRo once said they would refrain from making mechanics that just work with cards in the same set/block (like in Kamigawa).
I would have bet 100% Landfall and 0% Ally Mechanic. Everything about Zendikar screams "Landfall", while Ally was just a ... mistake. Well, that's just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by thecrav

2. Bident of Thassa in Kiora's hand - Theros gods somehow involved with the battle for zendikar? - possible enchantment theme

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Theros gods? Enchantment theme? Lol, surely not.
But maybe: "Kiora of the Bident" (a nod to "Liliana of the Veil")


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Also, I think, WotC would have a major riot at their hands if they don't reprint the Zendikar Fetchlands. Prices are ridicules now and would become insane without the reprint (like currently Liliana of the Veil).
I see no reason not to have all 10 Fetchlands in Standard. A few months ago WotC actually claimed that they try to offer only full cycles of dual lands (meaning all 10 color pairs) in the future. Why they just put five painlands in Origins is unclear.

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Originally Posted by joven

A few months ago WotC actually claimed that they try to offer only full cycles of dual lands (meaning all 10 color pairs) in the future. Why they just put five painlands in Origins is unclear.

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I think it is longer than a few months and I also recall reading since then they came out and said they changed their minds again.

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Originally Posted by joven

I see no reason not to have all 10 Fetchlands in Standard.

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Increased shuffling.

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A few months ago WotC actually claimed that they try to offer only full cycles of dual lands (meaning all 10 color pairs) in the future. Why they just put five painlands in Origins is unclear.

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Putting the painlands in Origins keeps the color fixing "even" as the fetchlands are in Khans and will be retained after rotation.

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Originally Posted by Lord Seth

Increased shuffling.

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In that case I think they'd just prefer to get them over and done with in one Standard.

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Originally Posted by joven

Allies was a horrible mechanic! Boring and somewhat overpowered if your deck is all allies (at least in Limited).
Also, MaRo once said they would refrain from making mechanics that just work with cards in the same set/block (like in Kamigawa).

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So you don't think any of the super plentiful +1+1 counter themes through out the whole Khans block would be in any way synergistic with Allies?

No fetchlands in Battle for Zendikar confirmed.

Whoof. Price spikes incoming, I guess.

I'm actually kind of surprised they didn't do those or the manlands. Prices on manabases in Modern can get pretty ridiculous and the return to Zendikar was the prime time to do the Zendikar fetches. I guess it'll probably wait until next spring's large set.