Shadow Tiger Oni Blade?Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
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Shadow Tiger Oni Blade?Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
Shadow Tiger Serving OniQuote:
Originally Posted by scaryrawr
Hmm, then I wonder why NotD has been rated as the second best blue creature ever printed by the community on the Gatherer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa
The Ninjas are great cards, and they actually combo with an creature that hav ETB effects and evasion.
Anyways, not going to spend much time trying to convince this ignoramus why he's wrong.
Here's my list.
// FaerieNinjaStill U/B
// 60 Maindeck
// 20 Creature
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Signal Pest
3 Ornithopter
3 Cloud of Faeries
3 Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
// 4 Enchantment
4 Standstill
// 16 Instant
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Fatal Push
// 20 Land
3 Island
3 Mutavault
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
// 15 Sideboard
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Misdirection
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 2 Submerge
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Vapor Snag
My sideboard needs work, and I need a way to deal with Eldrazi Stompy. The new Ninja was a great addition, and I think this deck can be legit now.
Any ideas how to deal with Stompy decks? Any tech for Eldrazi Stompy?
EDIT:
Dismember is a good option for Eldrazi and Anglers. Meekstone is a possibility as well.
Trinket Mage/Meekstone/Leonin Bola package?
Is Baleful Strix not a replacement for Standstill in the list above? You draw one card right off the bat and a second card if you enable ninjutsu with it, and it has value aside from drawing cards when you get it in play. Especially against big creatures.
Is Faerie Miscreant any good? It’s not every one-drop flier that also has a sometimes useful ETB and boosts your Spellstutter Sprites. And pitches to Force.
Hi, i just won 4 round local event with this current list 3-0-1 against 4c mentor2:0,grixis control 1:1,d&t 2:1( me mulligan to 5) and ub shadow 2:1 .
i'm very curious and its very challenging and fun to improve playing this kind of deck few years ago i played mono u ninjas and now with yuriko would be working even better so i'm happy to test it again .
only three changes i'm thinking to switch is higure for mistblade shinobi/rite of undoing ,one dissmember for ponder and one volcanic for mutavault not sure. i'll be glad for any suggest :)
Land (20)
3x Flooded Strand
1x Island
1x Karakas
1x Misty Rainforest
3x Mutavault
3x Polluted Delta
3x Underground Sea
3x Volcanic Island
2x Wasteland
1x Ponder
4x Standstill
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Higure, the Still Wind
2x Hope of Ghirapur
1x Mistblade Shinobi
4x Ninja of the Deep Hours
4x Ornithopter
3x Spellstutter Sprite
3x Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
4x Brainstorm
3x Daze
2x Dismember
4x Force of Will
2x Lightning Bolt
side
2x Abrade
1x Dread of Night
1x Fire / Ice
2x Flusterstorm
2x Hydroblast
1x Misdirection
2x Pithing Needle
1x Pyroblast
1x Sakashima's Student
2x Surgical Extraction
I've been playing a ton of mono-blue Dreadstill and I play 2x Dismember maindeck, an additional Dismember and 2x Sower of Temptation in the sideboard. I have it mainly for the Sneak/Show matchup but it's incredible against Eldrazi. I played it against Cloudpost-Eldrazi, stole a Primeval Titan, then when they played their Emrakul I bounced it back to hand with Vapor Snag and then stole that, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by R3ndr0c
Another card that I think has superb synergy with Ninja of the Deep Hours is Nimble Obstructionist. It flashes in, goes unblocked most of the time, you get a Ninja and have the Stifle effect back in hand (if you need it.) It's not the most mana-efficient way to go about things, but it allows the Stifle effect to be available if you decide you need it. I've been using it as a 1-2-of in my Dreadstill deck. Notably it can stifle an effect under standstill. :wink:
I've been thinking that spellstutter ends up putting you a turn behind even on the play... I've been trying to cut it lately and I think I like it a bit more...
Main
15 Creatures
4 Baleful Strix
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
1 Higure, the Still Wind
23 Inst/Sorc.
2 Spell Pierce
3 Thoughtseize
3 Fatal Push
2 Diabolic Edict
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
2 Planeswalkers
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
20 Lands
1 Mutavault
2 Wasteland
3 Island
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
Side
1 Throat Slitter
1 Skullsnatcher
1 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 Sakashima's Student
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Curfew
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Reanimate
I have to say, Sakashima's Student has to be the hardest ninja to play and actually get good value, but when you do, it makes a great story.
This current iteration is based more on the current Grixis Control lists running around, I think if Spell Pierce was swapped for Hymn to Tourach it would be a lot closer, but with all the control in the current meta, I think Spell Pierce is great (I'm often wrong though). I really was planning on sticking Gurmag Angler in somewhere which is also why I wanted to switch to a more spell heavy build instead of creature heavy, I think Murderous Cut would also be a really good removal spell in this deck since Yuriko can set such a clock with the reveal triggers. I ended up picking Venser over Gurmag since it tends to be an answer everything card.
I plan on trying Hymns this week. With spellstutter it really sucked to tap out on your own turn, even to jam a ninja, now it's a little more aggressive feeling and plays more proactively than reactively. The miracles match up got slightly worse, combo is still good, and fair matchups slightly better.
The most fun matchup so far has to be against Nic Fit. This deck is mana greedy and Nic Fit just sets us up to do exactly what we want. So much card draw, so much hymn snap hymn. It's kind of interesting because it feels like nic fit has issues trying to keep up after giving us lands to play with.
Ended up getting 2nd at MBH LPS with UB Ninjas. I registered as "Yakisoba".
Main
17 Creatures
4 Baleful Strix
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
3 Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
1 Higure, the Still Wind
21 Inst/Sorc
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize
3 Fatal Push
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Planeswalker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
20 Lands
3 Island
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
1 Mutavault
2 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
Sideboard
1 Mistblade Shinobi
1 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 Reanimate
1 Sakashima's Student
1 Skullsnatcher
1 Throat Slitter
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
1 Curfew
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Dread of Night
Went:
Swiss 5-1
1-2 Infect
2-0 Death and Taxes
2-1 Lands
2-0 Omni Sneak
2-1 MUD
2-1 Steel Stompy (Dos Equis)
Top 8
2-0 Turbo Depths
2-1 UWr Miracles
0-2 UW Stoneblade
After watching your Rd 1 Match on 0.25x speed i got most of the list figured out and with a little help, i fleshed out the rest plus i made some tweaks. For example, I opted for no Wastelands. I took it on Sunday to a $20 entry 4 rd swiss event. I went 3-1.Quote:
Originally Posted by scaryrawr
Rd 1. 1-2 L - Turbo Depths
Rd 2. 2-1 W - Burn
Rd 3. 2-1 W - Eldrazi Post
Rd 4. 2-0 W - TES/SI hybrid (technically split, but played for fun)
The list I ran:
Ninjas!
Creatures:17
4 Baleful Strix
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
3 Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
1 Higure, the Still Wind
Spells:23
4 Brainstorm
3 Fatal Push
4 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
Lands:20
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
3 Mutavault
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
Sideboard:15
1 Skullsnatcher
1 Mistblade Shinobi
1 Sakashima's Student
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 Throat Slitter
1 Curfew
1 Dread of Night
2 Flusterstorm
1 Reanimate
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Toxic Deluge
Some things i wanted to change after playing:
Maindeck: -1 Higure, -1 Jace, -1 Lili, -Mutavault; +1 Venser, +1 Thoughtseize, +1 Curfew, +1 Bloodstained Mire (or maybe a basic land, likely a swamp due to new SB cards)
Sideboard: -1 Skullsnatcher, -1 Mistblade Shinobi, -1 Venser, Shaper Savant, -1 Okiba-Gang Shinobi, -1 Throat Slitter; +1 Jace, +1 Lili, +1 Surgical, +2 Hymn
The Higure didn't really seem to do much and, especially if I am cutting the Ninja-bullets, Venser seems better in that spot. The PWs didn't feel right to me in the main, but i like keeping 1 Jace as another plan and setting up Yuriko is great. I felt like i wanted a little more discard, so there's TS to do that. 1 Mutavault on the table felt great, but 2 felt clunky, and I want a little more black mana sources, especially with adding Hymn to the board. I felt that 3 colorless lands was rough with how much we want to use our mana each turn. The main Curfew is just to test it more to see if it feels right, it could easily become a cantrip or a fluster or something later. By taking out the ninjas in the board it makes room for better versions of some of those effects, e.g. Surgical > Skullsnatcher and Hymn > Okiba-Gang.
It looks like since Yuriko came out on MTGO folks are playing UB Ninjas!
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetyp...e-black-ninjas
The stuff people are playing are definitely a lot more solid than my fun lists, and I think it'll be worth watching mtggoldfish and mtgtop8 for seeing where the lists go.
Y'all excited about the new Changeling Outcast? An unblockable Faerie Ninja on turn 1 seems pretty good with Sprite and Yuriko, right?
More Ninjas
https://i.redd.it/feh81oa1ns031.png
Looks like Ninja of the Deep Hours has been assassinated... :tongue:
I've been testing Ninja + Faeries for the upcoming modern horizons and so far the deck is really strong. I originally wanted to do something with Changeling Outcast given that it is both a Ninja and a Faerie but I found the typing was less relevant than Pteramander's blue color and ability to go overboard. Here's the skeleton I've settled on after a couple successful tournaments:
Creatures (22)
4 Pteramander
4 Faerie Miscreant -> Faerie Seer
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Baleful Strix
3 Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours -> Ingenious Infiltrator
Spells (20)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
Lands (18)
3 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
Sideboard
2 Plague Mare -> Plague Engineer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spell Pierce
2 Fatal Push
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Bitterblossom
The goal here is to enable a safe T2-3 Ninja and try to overwhelm our opponent with card advantage.
The deck is mainly UB with a tiny splash of green for mainboard Decay and a one-of Trophy in the SB. Given the slow nature of fish decks and how most of the pressure is applied through card advantage rather than card quality, I found it crucial to have mainboard answers to Vial, Jitte/Swords, Chalice, Counterbalance, Narset, Liliana tLH, and creatures like Pyromancer, Bob, Lavaman and the new Dreadhorde Arcanist.
I originally had less Ponder and more Thoughtseize but it quickly became clear to me that Pteramander is our lategame bomb and that paying life with this deck can be difficult in fair matchups where most of their creatures hit harder than ours. I tried squeezing in as many Instant and Sorcery as possible and still keep a strong Ninja+Faerie plan and a healthy amount of disruption and removal. I will often pay 3-4 mana to adapt in the midgame or dig aggressively for a Pteramander in the lategame.
The sideboard went through a lot of fluctuation but here are some interesting things I found out:
I chose Spell Pierce over Flusterstorm because I care more about being able to counter more expensive Artifact, Enchantment, and Planeswalker spells rather than being able to counter cheap Instant and Sorcery more effectively because Sprite already counters CMC1-2 spells effectively.
One might think that Dismember seems a better fit than Dismember for this deck given that it tends to hit more stuff like Eldrazi and Gurmag and flips for more damage on Yuriko. Paying life to get rid of an early Mom, Thalia, Delver, Pyro, or even Arcanist can be extremely difficult to recover from with our slow clock and tendency to durdle. Strix tends to handle vanilla fatties effectively and Push is a clean and cheap answer to the threats we care most about.
I originally had Jitte in the SB but given that Elves is practically a bye with Plague Mare and Sprite, Eldrazi struggles with deathtouch (hello Plague Engineer), I found out that the Null Rod plan was more effective against DnT. Shutting down Vials and all their equipment is paramount if we want to take control of the game and Null Rod does all of that for 2 mana while Jitte can be interacted with and costs twice as much. Usually if I can sink 4 mana in a Jitte I can adapt a Pteramander.
There is no doubt in my mind that Modern Horizons bring significant upgrades to this deck. Hopefully more people pick up this awesome fish deck! Let me know if you think of any improvements!
Any room for Mutavault? It makes the UB hard to cast, but it's also amazing with Infiltrator (attacks as a Ninja) and Spellstutter (counts as a Faerie).
It would be easier to support without the green splash for Decay obviously. How important is Decay to covering your weaknesses? Could some mix of Fatal Push and more discard/countermagic fill that hole?
Faerie Seer is amazing! Exactly what Spellstutter Sprite needed.
Yeah Changeling Outcasts seems excellent with Spirte and Yuriko and even Ingenious Infilitrator. I actually think it should take Pteramander's slots due to it's awesome synergy with three of your cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
All the new additions from Modern Horizons seem strong...
Faerie Seer
Changeling Outcast
Mist-Syndicate Naga
Ingenious Infiltrator
Throatseeker
Fallen Shinobi
Fallen Shinobi is probably too mana intensive to be playable, but it's usually a 3 for 1. Except for Throatseeker, all the other above cards are devastatingly impactful to the gamestate. And even Throatseeker might be worth sideboarding vs. aggressive strategies that pressure your life total.
Pteramander was good at providing a way to end the game fast by dealing lots of damage mid-late game but Mist-Syndicate Naga deals damage even faster. It also occupies up several of your opponents blockers making sure your other guys get through to draw you a bunch of cards.
You bring up good points and they did go through my mind at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
First, Mutavault only produces colorless mana and that's pretty much the same as producing no mana as very little spells can be cast with colorless mana. Therefore, as a Land, Mutavault is terrible. As a threat, Mutavault is slow, weak, lacks evasion, and costs 2 mana every time it attacks. If you have a slot to dedicate to Mutavault I highly suggest Changeling Outcast instead.
Second, Wasteland is key against Grove of the Burnwillows, ramp lands like Cloudpost, Tombs and City, Cavern of Souls, Depths, Karakas, Tabernacle, etc. You can't expect to play long and tight games without interacting with key lands. Cutting Miracles from red mana goes a long way for a deck with 37 blue cards.
Third, the tempo aspect of Wasteland is not negligible in our game plan given that we still play Daze and cheap creatures. This deck operates very smoothly on 2-3 lands and Wastelands can prolong the early-mid game stage that we thrive in. We might not be as tempo-driven as Delver or Maverick, or mana-denying as DnT but we still benefit from the tempo virtues of Wasteland against Control, Combo, and ramp decks. This is why I opted for only 3 copies and not the full playset as Wasteland is not focal to my gameplan but I definitely want to draw them if I have to dig for them.
About the green splash, I personally found it to be a natural fit to the deck. Splashing 2 Trops is a small price to pay for an out to a lot of hosers that can be found in many decks. Keep in mind that this is a fish deck and not a tempo deck like Delver so turning up the aggression and going for the throat is done via Pteramander at a much later stage in the game. This means that most hosers will have to be contended with at some point because trying to win while our opponent is stumbling isn't likely to happen. A quick example of that would be 3 turns of Ptera/Seer beats backed by Sprite, Wasteland, Daze/Force makes our opponent stumble for a few turns vs. the same thing with a Delver and a Goyf or Pyro. We've dished out 3-5 damage while they have potentially already dealt over 15 and threaten to close out the game in 1-2 turns.
I don't think it is wise to replace Decays with more counterspells as this leaves us with no removal or answers to any resolved permanents. Looking at the top decks in the format right now, let's look at what Decay vs. Push brings to the table:
3 Abrupt Decay + 2 Tropical Island vs. 3 Fatal Push + 1 Underground Sea + 1 Island
Aggro:
UR Delver: Push gives a more stable manabase and removes creatures for a lower cost. Uncounterable removal has merit though, especially given that we play so few removal spells mainboard. Advantage to Push.
DnT: same as the above except that Decay removes Vial, Jitte, and SoFaI which can all hose our deck. Push is nice against Thalia. Small advantage to Decay.
Eldrazi: Push hits TKS while Decay hits Chalice. A resolved Chalice is harder to deal with than TKS and Push gets shut down by said Chalice. Advantage to Decay.
Maverick: same as DnT but without Vial and Ports. Small advantage to Decay for hitting Jitte, SoFaI, and KotR unconditionally.
Burn: Push is cheaper and the manabase is better for it. Advantage to Push.
I think it's fair to say that Push and Decay are pretty close when it comes down to Aggro matchups.
Control:
Miracles: Push is dead and Decay hits CB, B2B, Narset, Teferi. Uncounterable against Mentor is great too. Clear advantage to Decay.
Stoneblade: Push is dead and Decay hits Equipments and the usual blue hosers that Miracle plays. Clear advantage to Decay.
Grixis: both Push and Decay kinda suck. At least Decay can be used against LtLH. Small advantage to Decay.
Lands: Push is dead while Decay hits Exploration, Mox and SB Choke. Having an additional Island is pretty good here. Small advantage to Decay.
Decay is clearly superior against Control decks.
Combo:
SnT: both suck but Decay can hit SB Defense Grid.
Storm: both suck but Decay can hit LED, Petal, and Mox.
Reanimator: both suck but Decay can hit Animate Dead
Depths: Decay hits Library, Needle on Wasteland, and SB Choke. Advantage to Decay
12post: Push hits TKS and Decay hits Chalice, Monolith, and Trinisphere. Advantage to Decay.
While not the most effective, Decay is the clear favorite against combo decks.
This list 5-1ed the Legacy Challenge.
Very spicy brew (I love everything about it)...
Creature (24)
4 Changeling Outcast
4 Mothdust Changeling
4 Baleful Strix
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
4 Ingenious Infiltrator
Instant (14)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Daze
2 Fatal Push
2 Consign // Oblivion
Artifact (4)
2 Aether Vial
2 Chrome Mox
Land (18)
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (15)
2 Fatal Push
2 Dread of Night
2 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Force of Negation
2 Null Rod
1 Plague Engineer
Between Sprite, Yuriko and Ingenious, the list seems to want to truly max out on the number of 1cc Changeling Ninja Faeries, even if it means running suboptimal ones such as Mothdust Changeling. Though it's pretty easy to give it evasion by tapping a Baleful Strix or Spellstutter Sprite if you need to maximize the number of ninjas you're swinging with for Yuriko/Ingenious. At worst, if you didn't need 1cc play, Changeling Ninja is perfectly fine as Chrome Mox or FoW fodder.
I actually wonder if Snap would make sense here in place of Consign as a way to bounce potential blockers for free so that you can draw a ton of cards by Ninjutsuing a Yuriko or Ingenious.
The original list I tested had 4 Faerie Seer, 4 Changeling Outcast, and 1 Pteramander. I eventually went down to 3 Outcast 2 Ptera, then 2 Outcast 3 Ptera, then finally took out all the copies of Outcast for 4 Ptera and another Ponder. Outcast enables some sick T3 plays such as T1 Outcast, T2 Seer/Outcast + Thoughtseize/Ponder, T3 ninjustsu Infiltrator or Yuriko and draw 2 cards. The problem with outcast is that without a ninja in play, it is worthless. Outcast doesn't pitch to Force, can't block, can't race, and the typing is only relevant when a Ninja is on the field or when Sprite needs to counter a CMC 2-3 spell. This makes Outcast and all subsequent copies dependant on a Ninja being in play to have any value. Given that 50% of decks don't even play creatures, having a ninja in play already provides a flow of cards. The most common scenario that blows us out is a T3-4 board with a Ninja in play plus Outcast/Ptera in play. The scenario with Outcast means that one removal spell on the ninja leaves us with nothing (we offered our opponent a 2 for 1). The scenario with Ptera gives our opponent the difficult choice of dealing with our Ninja or an imminent 5/5 flyer. Also, most board states where Outcast shine as an unblockable threat involve a Thalia, BSkull, TNN, Delver, Gurmag, Pyromancer, Goyf, an Eldrazi or any other popular legacy creature. Those board states usually don't require additional draws to overcome but rather a stabilizing force. Pteramander is that mid-to-lategame stabilizer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
If anything I would compare Outcast to Seer as Seer's main purpose is to enable Ninjas and buff Sprite (which Outcast does). Seer has the immediate and re-usable effect of Scry2 for a blue while Outcast has that Ninja synergy and is more evasive for a black. Right now I think I prefer a guaranteed scry 2 and being able to pitch my worst card to FoW (you can pitch Seer to FoW as you Ninjustu it on T2) than a potential draw on T3 at the earliest. If the meta shifts toward more fliers like Lingering Souls and Bitterblossom I would consider Outcast over Seer.
That's a cool looking list! Very focused on the Ninja plan. I like the Force of Negation in the SB... Been looking into those as a potential Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm upgrade. I'm a bit concerned with the amount of Ninjas (4 Yurikos!?) as it seems like it could lead to a lot of clunky hands. Chrome Mox is definitely a nice touch here. The deck also desperately needs 2 colored sources to get going and plays a traditional Delver manabase without Ponder. I think Seer is definitely better than Mothdust here... I think more Push/Daze/Thoughtseize/Decay are way better than Consign // Oblivion in Yuriko decks. I'm not sure about the Null Rod in the SB with Vial and Mox... more reasons to splash green for Decay/Trophy in this list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
I will definitely try this changeling/Ponder-less approach when the set comes out except with a few tweaks:
4 Faerie Seer > Mothdust Changeling
3rd Daze and 3rd Push/Decay > 2 Consign // Oblivion
2 Thoughtseize > 2 Aether Vial
1 colored Land > 4th Wasteland or 4th Yuriko
I lose the Pteramander + Ponder package but gain more Faeries, Ninja synergy, and Mox powered plays.
I went 3-1 at a weekly tournament with the Faerie Miscreant list posted on the previous page bare a few SB changes (-1 Trophy -1 Cage -1 Rod +1 Return to Nature +1 Jitte +1 Blossom). The deck performed well throughout numerous intense games. My loss was to Maverick as I got Choked twice and suffered under SoFaI. Unfortunately I couldn't find a Plague or Jitte in any of those games. The game I won was by adapting Pteramander. In fact, adapting Ptera happened in half my games and was the pivotal moment where I went from durdling with card advantage and circumventing threats to actually closing out the game. Here are a few examples:
-Adapt G1 against Maverick won the race;
-Adapt and flip FoW on Yuriko via Brainstorm against Depths before the second Lage token came online;
-Adapt for 3 mana in my 2 games against Miracles turned up the pressure
Faerie Miscreant was garbage as usual but did its job as an enabler which leads me to believe that Outcast might be better than Seer as a replacement. I don't believe Seer can replace Ponder, especially with Ptera... Outcast is without a doubt the best enabler by having the ultimate typing and evasion. In all my games, all that I expected from that slot was to enable a T2 Ninja or Sprite. I've also had a few stare downs with Marrit Lage and Scryb Ranger that could have been avoided if I had Outcast instead of Faerie. Faerie did pitch to FoW on a few occasions but I believe that was a symptom of the card being horrible rather than a lack of blue cards.
As much as I like Ninjas, I think 6 is a good number (good odds of finding one with a cantrip). I tested a list with Chrome Mox and more Ninjas instead of Ponder and what happened the most was that I would brick on land drops or have to mulligan much more than usual, likely because of the lack of manipulation or perhaps too few lands. Ninjas are clunky and I much prefer being able to set up a good ninjustu rather than having to jam as many as possible.
Another thing I noticed is that the Faerie typing is really just icing on the cake. Most of the time Sprite is used as a flash evasive body or to counter removal and cantrips as you pretty much have to fire it off every chance you get because of the low impact nature of the card. Trying to use Sprite as a hard counter for key spells is inefficient as we want to be doing stuff all the time. Sprite shines against Combo and postboard against Control when paired with Blossoms. I usually side them out against DnT, Maverick and Tomb/City decks.
Also, given the slow/midrange-y nature of the deck, playing against Eldrazi, Cloudpost ramp, and Depths decks is really a game about how many Wastelands and Forces you can find. Forces are good in every matchup but Wastes are sub-par or just dead weight against a big chunk of the meta. Colorless mana only pays for Sprite, Adapt, and Daze/Thalia taxes. I think it's important to have 4 Wastelands in the 75 but splitting them in the main/sb might be a good idea.
Bitterblossom is the nuts against control decks and makes Grixis and Miracles an absolute walk in the park. They also help tremendously against Depths. I went up to 2 copies in my SB and they did not dissapoint.
Our worst matchups are the toolboxy aggro decks like DnT/Maverick. Lucky for us, Plague Engineer goes a long way shoring those matchups. I've been struggling with SFM decks lately because every equipment is a must-answer (Jitte, SoFaI and BSK all shit on our parade). Return to Nature has been pretty flexible so far against Loam decks and Snapcaster+SFM decks. Return is a great complement to Nihil Spellbomb when you don't want to bring in Surgical Extraction (i.e: Miracles with AK and Snap, Aggro loam, Slow Depths). The problem is that the card is green... I can't really afford to play too many green cards against Wasteland decks. I stumbled upon Grip of Phyresis and I think it might be the answer to my prayers.
My plan against DnT and Maverick is to go:
-4 Spellstutter Sprite -3 Daze
+2 Plague Engineer +2 Fatal Push +1 Return to Nature +1 Grip of Phyresis +1 Wasteland
Sprite is too slow and doesn't have any meaningful CMC1 targets. Daze setting us back a land drop against Vial and mana dorks sounds terrible. I try to avoid cards like Grip of Phyresis and Dread of Night as much as possible since they have such narrow application. At least Grip is good against Stoneblade.
Plan for Stoneblade:
UW with B2B
-4 Baleful Strix -3 Wasteland
+2 Bitterblossom +2 Plague Engineer +1 Diabolic Edict +1 Return to Nature +1 Grip of Phyresis
I take out Strix because there is nothing to block in this matchup. Most lists are on B2B so Wasteland comes out. Bitterblossom comes in because they buffer Sprite to counter TNN and they will likely bring in Verdicts.
Esper/Jeskai
-4 Strix -3 Daze
+2 Bitterblossom +2 Plague Engineer +1 Return to Nature +1 Grip of Phyresis +1 Wasteland
Edict is arguably the worst card here as it isn't guaranteed to hit TNN with Snapcaster, SFM, and BSK floating about.
Y'all got any suggestions?
2 Bitterblossom
2 Plague Engineer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Fatal Push
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Return to Nature
1 Grip of Phyresis
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Wasteland
I played at a weekly tournament with a super straight-forward NinjaFaerie deck. I won against Miracles, Jund, and Infect and lost to Manaless Dredge and 4c Loam with Wrenn and Six.
The list:
4 Changeling Outcast
4 Faerie Seer
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Baleful Strix
3 Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
4 Ingenious Infiltrator
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Thoughtseize
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
//SB
2 Plague Engineer
2 Bitterblossom
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spell Pierce
2 Fatal Push
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Tyrant's Scorn
1 Return to Nature
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Umezawa's Jitte
I had some fun despite some tilting losses. I lost to Dredge digging 20 cards deep and not finding a single GY hate spell in 2 games, and lost to Chalice and Choke holding 2 Decays but not able to topdeck a land for 7 turns. I was very comfortable against all the matchups I won. The engine is very easy to set up and draws a lot of cards.
The main problem I encountered was that even though I was drawing lots of cards, most of them were garbage. In the few games that I didn't get to ninjutsu much at all. I was mostly jamming garbage evasive 1/1s waiting for a respectable topdeck. In some other games I would flood on Ninjas and struggle to enable them. The Ninja engine is good but not good enough to be the only thing.
I've been playing ninjas for a while now. Started with standstill went to ninja faeries and ended up now with full ninjas.
Here's my current list:
Creatures
4#Changeling Outcast
4#Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
4#Yuriko, the Tiger’s Shadow
4#Baleful Strix
4#Ingenious Infiltrator
2#Fallen Shinobi
2#Nether Traitor
Instant/sorceries
4#Misdirection
4#Force of Will
1#Murderous Cut
4#Brainstorm
3#Fatal Push
Land
1#Shizo, Death’s Storehouse
3#Wasteland
4#Polluted Delta
2#Island
2#Swamp
2#Verdant Catacombs
1#Watery Grave
1#Marsh Flats
1#Flooded Strand
1#Bloodstained Mire
1#Misty Rainforest
1#Underground Sea
// sideboard
2#Snuff Out
2#Thoughtseize
1#Meekstone
3#Consign // Oblivion
1#Murderous Cut
2#Liliana’s Defeat
2#Marsh Casualties
2#Spellseeker
So I went full in on the Yuriko and Tetsuko. Nvm the legendary, they stick to FoW or Misdirection. Misdirection is amazing against all kinds of spot removal. We can take the card disadvantage both fow and misd give because we have so many draws.
Besides that they reveal for 5 life loss with Yuriko while playing them for alt cost.
Wasteland feels bad. Consider moving them to sb. Nether traitor is hard.. mana intensive, doenst stick to fow or misd but is a recurring best evasion ninja enabler. Or just PW beater.
Fallen shinobi is too good to pass. The deck has a lot of card draw but shinobi makes a finisher. It completely turns the game around and at 4 mana I now believe we can have it. I dropped the ponders but not sure about that.
Curious on your thoughts! I had so many games with ninjas but no enablers and with less counter we care less about removal because we have so many creatures.
My thoughts on your deck?
I think Ninjutsu is good when it bounces something you want back to your hand like Strix and Sprite. Sprite is one of our best piece of protection to keep our draw engine going and another reason to play an unblockable changeling. 10 NInjas is too many IMO given that Ninjutsu by itself is not a win condition and the more Ninjas you play, the more vulnerable you are to removal and creatures. I've tested with 7, 6, and 5 Ninjas and 7 was already too many. I understand that with Misdirection you don't care as much about flooding with useless blue cards but Misdirection is extremely narrow and easy to play around. Most decks with a high amount of removal don't even play creatures of their own to misdirect to. I think Sprite does a great job at countering removal and is much more flexible than Misdirection. If anything, I would rather be playing Force of Negation than Misdirection by a mile.
I am right there with you on Wastelands. I've just played a tournament where I opted for 3 main/1 side Wastelands and I don't think they belong in this deck. Wastes can't really cast anything. Most decks can assembles a few basic lands and operate smoothly. We can't ride tempo as well either because our creatures are not threats but engine pieces that need to be assembled. Wastelands are mostly there as an answer to problematic/unfair lands and unfortunately I don't think we have much space for them. I think we need to deal with PFire, Depths, Posts/Tombs, Depths, Tabernacle, etc. in different ways (I.E. with Trophy).
Fallen Shinobi is indeed pretty powerful and wouldn't mind going down that route if I could tutor it as a one-of. As of now I think Infiltrator is much better as a Ninja and Fallen Shinobi is too mana intensive.
Tetsuko is slow and doesn't do much considering that it affects mostly itself and Yuriko while the other affected creatures are already evasive. Legacy contains about 65% decks that can't block in the first place. Of the 35% of decks that do block, over 10% of them play Karakas.
I would play any evasive 1/1 over Nether Traitor because casting cost matters. Ninja on T2 is one of our best play.
I believe Faeries are an important component of this deck and Bitterblossom plays a crucial role against control decks. Blossom is fundamentally good in long grindy matches and underwhelming in fast games which makes it a side-plan at best considering that most Aggro and Combo decks won't allow you the time for Blossom to shine. This makes it a side plan at best, but damn a damn good one against a third of the field.
On a different note, I am a firm believer that if you are going to play a substantial amount of T2 Ninjas enabled by evasive 1/1s, Pteramander is a prime win condition. He is our super Gurmag Angler and deserves to be built around. Ptera costs 1 mana, is evasive, is blue, and scales beautifully to close out the game fast (even through TNN/Gurmag/Active Mom). This is where I'm at right now:
Creatures (22)
4 Pteramander
4 Changeling Outcast
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Baleful Strix
3 Yuriko, Tiger's Shadow
3 Ingenious Infiltrator
Spells (21)
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize
Lands (17)
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
Sideboard
2 Plague Engineer
2 Bitterblossom
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spell Pierce
2 Fatal Push
2 Assassin's Trophy
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Of all the cards I care the most in my meta, Decay and Trophy tends to handle a fair amount. They include:
-Wrenn and Six (really hot right now and VERY strong against us)
-Narset, Parter of Veils (Miracles and Punishing Dack)
-Liliana, the Last Hope (Every black control deck plays it and it wrecks our deck)
-Leovold, Emissary of Trest (Punishing Dack and a resurgence of 4c Control with W&6)
-Chalice of the Void (Eldrazi and every Stompy deck in the world plays it)
-Umezawa's Jitte (DnT, Stoneblade, Maverick)
-Punishing Grove (most of the W&6 decks play it. Without Wasteland I need Trophy and some good GY hate for it)
-Counterbalance (Still a thing in Miracles...)
-Choke (Depths, Maverick, Loam have all hosed me with it postboard)
I'd like to fit in a pair of Leovold I currently need every other card more. They all synergize better with the game plan of T1 enabler, Draw+disruption, Adapt and finish. If Ptera was a Faerie I would probably drop the Ninja-heavy plan in favor of a heavier Faerie plan with Cliques and Leo...
Sounds very solid!
Thank you for the response! For a more competitive build i'd definitly go with 4 sprites and maybe 4 seer and/or ptera. Dropping tetsuko.
Now in my case I only play within the same group of friends 90% of the time. They play creature and removal heavy decks. Delver, reanimate, goblins, U/W control (miracles), infect, DnT. I have a good time against those decks so far and misdirection is an all star! So many stp, bolts and fatal pushes being played it's a 2 for 1. Even decay can be answered.
Last detail: I love to keep it as ninja as possible for flavor sakes. I have the complete deck (but also the faeries) in Japanese ^^ save for the undergrounds obviously.
Japanese sleeves, playmat and even, rare, D20 from kamigawa hahah. So Tetsuko feels so good!
On a more competitive view and meta I would definitly take your advice and go back to sprites and maybe seer and blossoms side.
So with that information in mind some more advice staying in ninja team but still kinda competitive with my creature heavy meta?
For a heavy Ninja built I would play Ornithopter instead of Nether Traitor. Ornith is also the classic Ninja enabler so you have some added flavor there. About 2 copies seems reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezuri
I would cut some number of Misdirection for a few discard spells as they are a great way to strip removal pre-emptively and allow you to curve out Ornith into Ninja with disruption. I advise a 1/3 or even 2/2 Misdirection/Thoughtseize or even Inquisition of Kozilek split. IoK is more budget friendly and has other benefits like:
-Reanimator can't make you discard a creature with it;
-No life loss against aggressive decks.
I think Set Adrift is better than Murderous Cut for your meta. It is better against Reanimator, can bounce CB, Planeswalkers, even a Jitte or SoFaI.
I would also split your removal suite between Fatal Push and Tyrant's Scorn. Scorn can be used to bounce Reanimated creatures and also your own creatures when targetted by removal or when a Terminus occurs. Scorn also pitches to FoW against combo decks so it gives some utility to your otherwise dead card. I would play a couple copies main. I'd cut Shizo and a Tetsuko for a pair of Scorns.
Anything evasive at 1-2 mana is better than tetsuko, if you like Sprite that's great but you can also find something flavorful that's better I am sure.
Get at least 1-2 Jitte in there for Flavor and it's great for your meta! Wastelands are not so good in your meta either.
You'd have something like this for the meta you described to me and still retain a lot of Ninja flavor:
2 Ornithopter
4 Changeling Outcast
4 Baleful Strix
4 Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
4 Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
4 Ingenious Infiltrator
2 Fallen Shinobi
3 Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize
3 Fatal Push
2 Tyrant's Scorn
1 Misdirection
1 Set Adrift
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
18 colored lands
That way you have plenty of removal for the common aggro deck, some removal for Reanimator, and not too many dead cards against Miracles. You've got some solid disruption against any legacy deck. You keep all your flavor and you increase the deck's velocity with additional cheap enablers and more proactive T1 plays. You also preserve the fear of Misdirection by having a singleton because you have played the full playset in the past with your playgroup.
^ Agree. Four is a lot of Misdirections. While it's great for protecting honest ninjas against fair creature-based decks the card is going to be dead in a lot of match-ups and on many board states. If there are a lot of creature mirrors in your meta then you might be able to get away with two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
To chuck out another list, I've been playing this recently:
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Prismatic Vista
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Mutavault
3 Ornithopter
4 Changeling Outcast
2 Faerie Seer
2 Baleful Strix
3 Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
4 Ingenious Infiltrator
2 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Plague Engineer
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
2 Curfew
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Snuff Out
SB:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
1 Divert
1 Contentious Plan
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
1 To the Slaughter
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Contagion
1 Commandeer
Ornithopter and Changeling Outcast can lead to some pretty busted starts if you can dodge removal: turn 1 Outcast, Ornithopter; turn 2 Yuriko is kinda the dream. Faerie Seer and Ninja of the Deep Hours are both pretty weak, but I think necessary to provide enough turn one enablers and payoff cards respectively. Mutavaults have also underperformed -- too slow and don't cast any of the good spells -- so I'll probably cut them for either Strixes or Spellstutter Sprites going forwards.
So I changed my list a bit after your advices and playtesting. Though nether traitor has worked wonders a few times I'd love to try ornithopter. Took out 2 misdirections for 2 thoughtseize aswell.
Creatures 25;
4#Changeling Outcast
3#Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
4#Yuriko, the Tiger’s Shadow
4#Baleful Strix
4#Ingenious Infiltrator
2#Fallen Shinobi
4#Ornithopter
Noncreature spells 16:
3#Fatal Push
2#Misdirection
2#Thoughtseize
4#Force of Will
1#Murderous Cut
4#Brainstorm
Lands 19;
3#Wasteland
4#Polluted Delta
3#Island
2#Swamp
2#Verdant Catacombs
1#Underground Sea
1#Flooded Strand
1#Bloodstained Mire
1#Marsh Flats
1#Watery Grave
Anyone reading?
Been playtesting the adjusted list;
Creature (24)
4*Changeling Outcast
4*Ornithopter
2*Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
4*Baleful Strix
2*Fallen Shinobi
4*Ingenious Infiltrator
4*Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
Sorcery (2)
2*Thoughtseize
Instant (14)
4*Fatal Push
4*Brainstorm
4*Force of Will
2*Misdirection
Land (20)
1*Bloodstained Mire
1*Flooded Strand
2*Island
1*Marsh Flats
1*Misty Rainforest
4*Polluted Delta
1*Shizo, Death's Storehouse
3*Swamp
1*Underground Sea
2*Verdant Catacombs
2*Wasteland
1*Watery Grave
Been working great! Ornithopter is amazing! Put's so much tempo on our game to recast our enabler. Especialy turn 2.
Besides opponent feels sad if they have to use removal for a 0 cmc creature like ornithopter.
Having some doubts about tetsuko (made me get in with yuriko a lot of times which often was game changing: opp passes with a blocker but enter tetsuko).
But.. wouldnt extra spot removal have gotten me there too?.. so still thinking of cutting her.
Want to add ponder back in somewhere. Also still doubting to go to 19 land and dropping wasteland entirely.
What do you guys think of force of negation for this deck?
P.s. Yuriko is getting a judge gift reprint!! Not really excited though cause i play a japanese playset
I'm still keeping my eye on it, yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezuri
I an glad the Thopters are working out for you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezuri
My opinion on Teksuko remains the same.
Ponder is a pretty good magic card and I find it difficult to make a blue deck without it. Tempo decks play the full set and are more tempo driven than we are so to me, Ponder is a no-brainer auto-include. I tried to substitute it for Faerie Seer in a Sprite version and Ponder was sorely missed.
Wasteland is a necessary evil in this deck and it is very difficult to justify less than 3 copies. Our deck is essentially an engine deck (it requires specific card sequences to generate an advantage) and therefore our disruption needs to help us set up our engine. Thoughtseize, Daze, and Force of Will are great examples of such disruption because they fit naturally into our sequencing (either free or cheap) and will prevent specific spells from occurring (targeted removal, large threats, etc.). Wasteland covers the threats that these spells do not cover, namely:
Grove of the Burnwillows + Punishing Fire kills our entire deck
Cavern of Souls and Boseiju stops all our counterspells
Karakas on Yuriko
Tabernacle from Lands
Stage + Depths combos
Sol Lands into anything bigger than our deck
That is not counting the general goodness of Wasteland on any dual land and its synergy with Daze.
Force of Negation is a great SB card for our deck. Countering only Non-creature and having an alternate cost only during our turn makes it too narrow for the main IMO.
As for further discussion concerning the deck, I've personally tabled the deck until the next set which should include Faeries. I really like Ninjas but they need a payoff card. If Pteramander was a Faerie I think the deck would have a leg to stand on but as it is now, Ninja-Faeries are a little underpowered for my taste. The best I could come up with is a Ninja deck that focuses on pro-active early plays and tries to maximize on Pteramander as both an early enabler and a lategame bomb. This meant I could not support a Faerie sub-theme mainboard. I did, however, fit Sprites and Blossoms in the SB as a boarding plan against Control and Combo decks. That way the Faerie plan comes in when Waste/Daze/Strix/Ptera come out. Here's my latest list:
Creatures (18)
4 Pteramander
4 Changeling Outcast
4 Baleful Strix
3 Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
3 Ingenious Infiltrator
Spells (22)
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
Lands (20)
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
Sideboard
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Bitterblossom
2 Plague Engineer
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Fatal Push
1 Tyrant's Scorn
1 Force of Negation
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
Pretty straightforward list with 10 pro-active T1 plays, 10 proactive T2 follow-up plays with all the free disruption and 4 Wasteland plan. I've bolded the core cards of the deck that never get sided out. Here are some examples of a few postboard plans featuring Faeries:
Control
Miracle
-4 Daze -4 Wasteland
+4 Sprite +2 Blossom +1 Negation +1 Nihil Spellbomb
Daze and Waste are mostly dead cards here so I keep Thoughtseize and bring in the Faerie package in order to have the most chances of dealing with removal and ride a Ninja to victory. Spellbomb is fine against AK and Snap.
4c Control
-4 Pteramander -2 Thoughtseize -2 Wasteland
+4 Sprite +2 Blossom +1 Negation +1 Nihil Spellbomb
I take out Pteras against Strix and W6 and bring in the Spellbomb for W6, Snap, and KCommand. I can't let W6 resolve here as this card is a total shit in the face. Wasteland loses value here if they don't play Punishing Dack because they have so many Snow basics now.
Lands
-2 Thoughtseize -4 Daze
+2 Surgical +1 Scorn +1 Negation +1 Crypt +1 Nihil
Take out all the dead cards for GY interaction and Punishing/Loam answers. Scorn is there for Marrit Lage.
Combo
Depths
-4 Ptera -3 Ninja
+4 Sprite +2 Blossom +1 Scorn
Clog the board with flyers and ignore Marrit Lage. Decay stays for Needle, Choke, W6 and other random permanents.
SnT
-4 Strix -3 Ninja -2 Decay
+4 Sprite +2 Blossom +2 Surgical +1 Negation
Blossom comes in in order to turn Sprite into a hard counter on the following turn. I keep some number of Decays for the occasional Artisan and Defense Grid.
Storm
-4 Strix -4 Decay -3 Yuriko
+4 Sprite +2 Plague +2 Surgical +1 Negation +1 Crypt +1 Nihil
Here I take out Yuriko because I don't want to reveal my draws.
Reanimator
-4 Decay -6 Ninja
+4 Sprite +2 Surgical +1 Negation +1 Scorn +1 Crypt +1 Nihil
The only matchup where the Ninja engine has no value and the deck becomes packed with relevant disruption.
Elves
-4 Strix -4 Daze
+4 Sprite +2 Plague +1 Push +1 Negation
Plenty of answers and hosers here. This matchup is a breeze
Aggro:
DnT
-4 Daze
+2 Plague Engineer +1 Push +1 Scorn
Plague Engineer and Pteramander are very important for this matchup.
UR Delver/Burn
-2 Thoughtseize -4 Wasteland
+4 Sprite +1 Push +1 Scorn
Other Delver decks
-2 Thoughtseize
+1 Push +1 Scorn
Delver matchups are pretty good in general because we have enough basic lands, 4 Strix and 4 Decay.
Eldrazi Stompy
-2 Thoughtseize -2 Ninja
+2 Plague Engineer +1 Push +1 Scorn
Eldrazi is one of those tough matchups where you want all your Wastelands, Decays, and Strixes to stay afloat.
If you play a build with Spellstutter Sprite, wouldn't be Faerie Seer a good choice instead of changeling outcast? It enables ninjutsu, fits in the Force (/Misdirection), is a Faerie for the Sprite and has an comes into play ability so you want to bounce it.
I've tried with Seer before and the card is deeply underwhelming. Scry 2 and blue is really good but Unblockable and Ninja typing is more relevant. Every enabler in the deck can ve walled by a 2 toughness flyer (Delver, Scryb, Strix, Lage).Quote:
Originally Posted by Brennender_Drache
A common line of play for this deck is T1 Outcast -> T2 Strix/Sprite (Daze backup)-> T3 Ninjutsu Strix/Sprite for 2x Ninja triggers (TS/Waste backup). You lose a Ninja trigger if Changeling is a Seer there.
Ah okay, that all makes sense. Thank you for your impressionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
Qweerios, why avoid some of the higher cost Delve cards like Gurmag Angler or Murderous Cut?
In testing getting both ninjas hitting and stacking the triggers to fill the hand, then Brainstorm a Force and Angler on top to reveal 12 CMC was common enough to either totally shift the tempo into every combat being a must block situation for them, or even just the threat of that making them fearful of every cantrip, such that they would waste resources until simple beats got there regardless.
I'm not advocating for Emrakul or Draco, just that Yuriko can be more than just Ingenious Infiltrator 5-8
Thanks
I am not avoiding those cards. I think they are very good. 1-2 Gurmag or 1 Murderous Cut are good cards with their own merit that have good synergy with Yuriko. I think the Yuriko synergy is secondary to the utility of the spell you are choosing to play. Gurmag doesn't really have any alternatives in this deck so if you want a fatty, Gurmag is an amazing choice. If removal is what I want, chances are I'd prefer a Push or anything cheaper than Cut because I am counting on that card to handle something like a T2 Arcanist for example. If Murderous Cut is the removal spell you want in that slot so you can remove Gurmag or something big and don't really care if your removal is fast, then you should definitely play it. There are already high costs in the deck that can be revealed and having more just makes Yuriko as a card stronger. That's the beauty of Yuriko, she can be Infiltrator #5-8 and that's good enough, but she can also kill your opponent with lucky flips.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
The main reason why I don't personally play Delve cards is because I play Pteramander. A single Delve spell is usually a setback for Adapt. It is entirely possible that Delve cards may be better than Ptera altogether, I just believe Ptera is perfect in this deck as a blue CMC1 flyer that doubles up as a flying Angler. In a version with Ornithopters (yuck!), a couple Anglers will go a long way and I definitely recommend them! I also splash green for Decay so I get to consider cards like Trophy before Cut.
Ornithopter is in a weird spot where it enables really cool plays like T1 Ornith + Outcast into Ninja double trigger. It also has 2 toughness in this W6 era which is relevant. The problem I see with Thopter is that, well, the card completely sucks. He pretty much has to grant you 1-2 triggers to make up for the fact that it is worthless on its own. Ptera will enable only one T2 Ninja trigger but will pitch to FoW upon Ninjutsu activation while all the other copies you will draw throughout the game will be huge threats.
Sound logic all around.
Seems the lists still doing Ornithopter have Retrofitter Foundry in as well, but that still seems like a stretch too far to enable occasional early ninjitsus. It is tempting to ninja out T2 and replay the Thopter, so you can continue to threaten another ninja. Replaying Changeling Outcast on T3 and not being available to attack is a huge punch in the gut tempo-wise. Really need those turns for them to play into Spell Peirce or Fatal Push, otherwise we're draw-go while they sculpt into something scary.
The list I'm toying with already has 3 Fatal Push, so a single Murderous Cut seemed advantageous in both available targets and CMC games with Yuriko. I'm not feeling any shortage of pitch fodder to FoW, and Angler being big and beyond opposing Push & Decay has also helped. I'm only on 2 copies, so it's never come up to be my only ninja enabler that Pteramander is to you.
I'll continue tinkering and see if I can return with any other insights.
Thanks
I went 4-0 at a Legacy weekly with a respectable turnout (20ish players). I had taken a break from magic for about a month and wanted to play something light and fun so I opted for some Retrofitter Ninjas with a little twist. Here's the list and a tiny report:
2 Ornithopter
4 Changeling Outcast
4 Baleful Strix
3 Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
3 Ingenious Infiltrator
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Tombstalker
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
2 Retrofitter Foundry
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
2 Swamp
2 Island
//SB
2 Plague Engineer
2 Fatal Push
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spell Pierce
1 Hydroblast
1 Grip of Phyrexia
1 Force of Negation
1 Ground Seal
1 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
R1 2-0 vs. 4c Snow Control
Tombstalker flew over Plague Engineer G1. TS + Leovold won G2 on its own. I wish I had a 3rd Foundry in this matchup.
R2 2-1 vs. ANT
Thoughtseize was stellar G1 and allowed me to Decay 2 LED. I punted G2 and lost. Veil is a hell of a card against us. I was happy I had 4 TS and no soft counters here. This matchup is very positive overall, especially postboard. Pre-board TS + FoW + Leo is phenomenal here and postboard Pierces + Negation + Surgical + Plagues really shuts the door on them.
R3 2-1 vs. Wizards tribal
I really cool deck that went Merfolk style on G1 with a Vial opener and a bunch of bounce wizards. His deck fell apart G2-3 when I clogged the board with Strix and force Ninjas through.
R4 2-1 vs. Maverick
A really difficult matchup that I was happy to overcome. Decay on equipments was crucial when Strix was holding the fort. Grip in any game would have been a blowout.
Props:
-Tombstalker setting up lethal Yurikos with Brainstorm, and causing headaches to Snow Control
-Thoughtseize taking W6, removal spells, combo pieces, threats and game-breaking equipments
-Strix stalling ridiculous board states
-Outcast breaking stalled boards
-Foundry converting all those garbage cards into annoying threats
Slops:
-Drawing 2 Thopters and no Ninjas/Foundry
-Karakas being annoying against Leo and Yuriko
-Thoughtseize costing 2 life
Thoughts:
This deck is as much of a Ninja deck than it is a Foundry deck! As expected, Thopter and Outcast without a Ninja or a Foundry are garbage, but there can be no degenerate Ninja or Foundry action without those key enablers. Therefore it is crucial to assemble the pieces. Thoughtseize and FoW are the best disruption spells available for this deck because they are the fastest and least conditional. Leaving mana open isn't a good in a deck where you want to actively find, assemble, and enable an engine via cantrips and discard.
The green splash is probably not necessary, especially with the new Brazen Borrower and Drown in the Loch. I can see Drown easily replace Leovold and Brazen Borrower is a nice answer to Marrit Lage and can bounce Chalice and other annoying permanents making the availlable for discard. Being on basic Islands and Swamps only is definitely a huge plus in a W6 meta.
Oko is definitely worth consideration though...
Hi everyone, I finally made an account after lurking for a long time. I just play locally at weekly legacy nights, not a pro by any means, but wanted to add to the discussion.
I went 2-0-1 the other night with the intentional draw last round to split prizes. My list is definitely tweaked for the local meta... lots of control, delver, and creature based deck, not much combo.
Creatures (16)
3 ornithopter
3 baleful strix
3 yuriko
3 ingenious infiltrator
2 gurmag angler
1 plague engineer
1 changeling outcast
Spells & Other (25)
4 retrofitter foundry
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 force of will
3 fatal push
2 thoughtseize
2 drown in the loch
1 spell pierce
1 force of negation
Lands (19)
4 polluted Delta
4 prismatic vista
1 bloodstained mire
5 island
4 swamp
1 underground sea
Sideboard
2 back to basics
2 liliana the last hope
1 plague engineer
1 toxic deluge
1 to the slaughter
1 liliana's triumph
1 surgical extraction
1 flusterstorm
1 hydroblast
1 engineered explosives
1 pithing needle
1 grafdiggers cage
1 tyrant's scorn
I don't have a bunch of notes, but here are the matches.
R1. 4c delver (2-0)
Not much to say, got in with ninjas both games to go up on cards and saved counters for planeswalkers. I pretty much always felt in control, even when the opponent had out a flipped delver, angler, and a 6\7 goyf. Spot removal cleaned up the board before closing out the game. We played a couple more games while waiting for the round to end and those felt the same.
R2. UR delver (2-1)
Game 1 I didn't know what opponent was on and kept a greedy one lander. Promptly got blown out by a stifle and never drew another land. Games 2-3 felt similar to round one, never felt too threatened. Game 2 an angler basically ended it, opponent tried to double bolt it but I countered the second bolt. Game 3 Liliana took over, cleaning up the board before ninjas closed the game.
R3. Sylvan plug (ID), but played out for fun 1-2
Game 1 I just flooded super hard. Game 2 opponent played a turn 2 lingering souls but I had turn 3 liliana, which took over the game. Opponent found an abrupt decay the turn before I could ultimate, but a pair of retrofitter foundry ended the game with a bunch of servos. Game 3 opponent again had an early lingering souls, but this time I couldn't find a sweeper or liliana. Some back and forth but eventually the souls ended it.
Overall the deck felt great and is a ton of fun. I was trying out the main deck plague engineer and changeling outcast in place of the fourth ornithopter and baleful strix I like the engineer but will probably drop the outcast. I keep wanting to squeeze in one more thoughtseize, spell pierce or spell snare, and drown in the loch. Drown in the loch was great all night, always happy to see it, but three is probably too many at 2 cmc. I'm leaning towards a spell snare or the last strix.
In the sideboard I ran a to the slaughter to try to fight resolved planeswalkers, which the deck seems to really struggle with. Its also relevant against dark depth, and delerium is actually pretty easy to hit with all the artifacts, so you get the occasional 2 for 1. That slot might just be better as an elderspell or second pithing needle. I also considered noxious grasp since it hits W6, oko, and teferi along with some relevant creatures.
In terms of matchups delver has felt pretty favorable. The removal and counter suite seem to line up well against their threats and they struggle to keep up with the card advantage from ninja hits. Blanking wasteland it also nice. The tough matchups have been planeswalker heavy control and, somewhat surprisingly, mono red decks... Goblins and burn. Against 4c control I've been able to win when I keep walkers in check in the early game, but if they manage to land an early W6 followed up by another walker I just fall too far behind. Swinging at them with ninjas feels so bad too, knowing you're giving up the draw trigger. I haven't played against goblins and burn a lot, so I may have just been playing wrong, but I feel like I just get run over.
Let me know any thoughts on the list, thanks!
Got the 2-0-1, ID in last round again! List was the same as last time, except I swapped the changeling outcast for a spell snare.
R1. UW Miracles (2-0)
Game 1 I start out with a thoughtseize and see narset, snapcaster, and 3 swords to plowshares. I pick the snap and decide my plan is to just go all in on servos to win in the face of 3 StP. A few turns later I have 2 servos out and opponent taps out to cantrip then council's judgement the foundry. With opponent tapped out I go for the attack and double ninjitsu a yuriko and ingenious infiltrator. Both connect and I hit FoW and plague engineer off the yuriko triggers... in one turn I draw 4 cards and opponent loses 11 life. Game goes on a little longer but opponent can't catch up after the double ninja hit. Game 2 my oppening hand includes a foundry and a flusterstorm, I hold both for turn 2 and fluster the opponents FoW on the foundry. I don't remember all the details, I think I got terminused, but a few turns later opponent goes to disenchant the foundry, I try to brainstorm to find protection, but opponent forces the brainstorm pitching a JTMS. This leaves us both with empty boards and 1 card in hand. I rebuild with some threats and opponent doesn't see another terminus.
R2. Burn (2-0)
One of the decks I mentioned last time that I thought ninjas struggles with. The matchup probably isn't as bad as I initially thought, although I think this win was due to some good opening hands and an opponent not familiar with my deck. Game 1 I had fatal push for the turn 1 swiftspear and some cantrips. Don't remember all the details but I filled my graveyard pretty quickly to get angler out and rode it to victory. Opponent was holding three price of progress. Game 2 I played a turn 1 ornithopter and retrofitter foundry. Opponent tried to searing blood the thopter, but I turned it into a construct in response. I guess he didn't have too much going on since he ended up double bolting the construct. The 3 for 1 was too much and I closed the game with some servos and an angler.
R3. Goblins (ID)
Once again, the deck felt great and was a lot of fun. The match against miracles played out well without any planeswalkers to have to fight on the board. Neither of us were sure if forcing the brainstorm was the right call in the moment, but looking back we agreed he should have let the brainstorm resolve, then force if I try to counter. Losing the Jace was huge. The only deck change I plan on making is swapping the sideboard to the slaughter for a brazen borrower.
I'm looking forward to seeing what decks emerge post W6. It'll definitely be nice not having to play around a turn 2 value engine that doubles as a win con.